Lately we have encountered a number of challenges that don't add up to our party. We are a large high powered party. We are 10th level and have
Elf fighter archer rules lawyer that abuse how broken bows have become. Adding +19 to every shot without declaring anything. He adds +19 to hit as well on this +2 bow. His ac 28.
Human warpreist who has AC 36 and despite being Lawful good has threatened to kill the shaman for capturing him in blast. He also hits in the 30's for absurd amounts of damage.
Human Shaman who if she knew how to play would effective but not really overpowered.
Human alchemist who used to be effective but the warpreist and the fighter have made her useless on average.
Human swashbuckler who was a combat tank until the archer and warpreist surpassed it in ac and defensive abilities despite the swashbuckler having focused to defensive.
and our barbarian just got swapped for a bloodrager don't know how this will fair.
At level 10 we just walked a cr 13 barbarian that had it's ac doubled; hit point maxed and doubled; and 8 blood skeleton body guards in 4 rounds of combat while only taking a mild amount of damage. Something wrong when a CR 2 levels higher get over bumped and we still plow through it. The things I can't grasp are why an archer has a power attack for bow and the ability to add his int to the same attack with virtually no penalty. Well I don't see why deadly aim was ever printed. I also don't see the need for fighter weapon training considering how broken the new power attack and deadly aim are. Why is it Paizo want to break fighters so much? Seriously combat begins The Archer attacks three times does between 70-90 points the warpreist attacks twice and does between 50-60 and most combats are over. How do we fix this or are we doomed to play in broken realms from here on out? Maybe we should play WoTC for a balanced system.
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Without builds, we can't really see the whole picture. There could be some serious errors in adding bonuses for all we know, and they should only be doing about half as much damage. No way to tell unless we see the math behind it.
That having been said, at that level I'm not surprised at that damage for the most part.
Also, you heard it here, guys. Fighters = broken.
This is some serious epic trolling, has to be.
Okay, first, you need know how to figure out CR for your group. CR13 Barbarian should be no thread at all for this party, you can therefor check some of those guids thatexplain how to calculate CR for your party (keep in mind, the CR-rating given in the PF-sources are based on a party of four). You will need to calculate CR using the XP an encounter offers and... well, just check this guide: Klick
Then in addition to that you have a different problem: the level of optimization of your pcs. Usually fighter should be easy to handle with as they have bad saves and not many options but to just dish out some full attacks. keep them from doing that and you will be fine. On the warpriest - well, the palyer seems to be a little weird, maybe you should talk to them. Most of the time talking to your players will be more effective than such a thread anyway as a lot of people on these boards will tell you to do exatly that very thing.
Tell them what your problem is and I'm sure they will cooperate and find a solution everyone is fine with.
Also, for future games, I would try to only allow your players stuff from the CRB - this will solve a lot of issues until you are more into "system mastery" (and believe me, after some games you will see, fighters are far from broken in pathfinder). Once you and your players understood more of the game you can add more resources for character building and you will find yourself way more prepared when it comes to how to deal with "stronger" characters.
I'm really not seeing why anything is broken. The numbers (while vague) don't seem unreasonable. Fighters hit and do damage, that's (usually) their shtick. Warpriest I have no idea and that class might be experiencing some power creep, but as Davor said, no math.
I'd also say the GM isn't challenging you the right way. You're roughly 4 melees, and two Casters.
Now, I don't know what kind of bloody skeletons they were, but I'll assume they're just the generic template. Those are pathetically easy to deal with. And, no matter the power of the enemy barbarian, you still have 6:1 on his actions. Not to mention he's trying to overcome you as a heavy battler when you're all heavier.
Again, don't know the situation. I'd drop a few debuff spells on you, maybe a dominate or confusion and let you duke it out yourselves.
Abuse the Wind Wall spell for the Archer. Skill challenges - never let a melee charge through a heavy forest without Acrobatics checks - little house rules to up the ante. Finally, your DM needs action economy. Fireball can hit from over 400' away; I've lost count how many times I opened up a combat with "Team Evil" hitting the PC's from 500' away and then chocking up a wind wall for the cheeky archers.
I second the confusion spell; nothing kills PC's faster than the fighter hitting another party member for absurd damage.
weasel: Male Elf Fighter10 ; CR 9 ; Medium Humanoid (Elf); HD (10d10)+40; hp 98; Init +7; Spd Walk 30 ft.; AC 29, touch 19, flat-footed 22, Base Atk +10/+5; CMB +14; CMD +33; Atk: +23 Ranged (1d8+10/20/x3, *Longbow +2 (Composite/Frost/Strength Rating+4) , Range 110 ft. ) or ; Full Atk: +23/+18 Ranged (1d8+10/20/x3, *Longbow +2 (Composite/Frost/Strength Rating+4) , Range 110 ft. ) or ; SA: Armor Training (Ex), Bonus Feats, Bravery (Ex), Elven Immunities (Ex), Elven Magic (Ex), Keen Senses (Ex), Low-Light Vision (Ex), Weapon and Armor Proficiency, Weapon Familiarity (Ex), Weapon Training (Ex), ; SQ: Low-Light Vision; AL: None; SV Fort +10, Ref +10, Will +5; STR 18, DEX 24, CON 16, INT 18, WIS 14, CHA 13 .
Skills and Feats: Perception +4; Deadly Aim, Elven Accuracy, Focused Shot, Greater Weapon Focus (Longbow), Point Blank Master, Point-Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Rapid Shot, Vital Strike, Weapon Focus (Longbow), Weapon Specialization (Longbow).
Possessions: Amulet of Natural Armor +3; Ring of Protection +2; Belt of Incredible Dexterity +4; Studded Leather +2; Buckler +1; Longbow +2 (Composite/Frost/Strength Rating+4) ;
so when using deadly aim and within 30 he adds +21 to hit dmg is 1d8 +1d6 +4 str +4 int +6 deadly +2 weapon spec +2 magic +2 weapon training +1 point blank. for a total 1d8+21 and 1d6 cold. and almost no cr 13 has high enough armor to survive our level 10 party of 1 extra person
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*Sees Party Composition*
*Identifies "Fighters are OP" statement*
*Notices No True Full Casters*
*Laughs*
*Leaves Joke of a Thread*
Am I right - that fighter does not have rapid shot and many shot?
Is he using Focused Shot in a full attack? Because he can't.
"As a standard action, you may make an attack with a bow or crossbow and add your Intelligence modifier on the damage roll. You must be within 30 feet of your target to deal this extra damage. Creatures immune to critical hits and sneak attacks are immune to this extra damage."
And by Geb you're right Wasum, No rapid or many. I never thought I'd see the day.
EDIT: Focused Shot also can't be combined with Vital Strike if I remember correctly.
rapid but not many shot. Also can he use focused with rapid or vital strike? as for the encounters we're in the kingdom builder adventure path do not expect our dm to scale them right she doesn't even know how to make a character most days. limited to 66k in gear which is more then i thought we needed.
I just edited above, but I'll repeat here. I don't think he can use Focused Shot with Vital strike because of the wording on Vital Strike.
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rapid but not many shot. Also can he use focused with rapid or vital strike? as for the encounters we're in the kingdom builder adventure path do not expect our dm to scale them right she doesn't even know how to make a character most days. limited to 66k in gear which is more then i thought we needed.
So your DM doesn't really know the system, or what to do with it... and thus the game is broken? OK, that makes so much sense...
So your 5 man 10th level party killed a lone Barbarian? Shocking.
Yes I know he technically had "8 bloody skeletons" as minions but anything that needs a 20 to hit and does 1% of a Wizard's health at that level barely even counts as being there.
None of that is broken to me.
As an example using the +19 to hit.
+10 BAB
+5 dex
+1weapon focus
+3 weapon
= +19 and it could be higher.
My level 10 halfling samurai shoots 4 arrows at level 9 at +20(x2)/+20/+15 doing 1d6 +19 damage. And he's not even fully optimised (otherwise he'd not be halfling:P)
I am gm-ing a group of lvl 10 pirates right now - all of them roleplayers and no min-maxers at all but that fighter there would still be weaker than all of them...
The problem with your group is somewhere else, give the link to that GM-guide to your GM and hope she will read it.
Okay, first, you need know how to figure out CR for your group. CR13 Barbarian should be no thread at all for this party, you can therefor check some of those guids thatexplain how to calculate CR for your party (keep in mind, the CR-rating given in the PF-sources are based on a party of four). You will need to calculate CR using the XP an encounter offers and... well, just check this guide: Klick
I second that guide, I'm a pretty experienced gm and i still got value out of it. CR calculations by RAW are a terrible way to determine encounter levels. By my rough calculation for a group of 6 optimized level 10s that encounter should be trivial. For a non optimized party it should be easy.
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If your GM isn't very familiar with the system and isn't able to use the encounters to their best against an oversized, likely higher than expected point buy (Kingmaker assumes 15pt characters) party... it's not the system that's broken. You should either try and help your GM learn the system better or realise that she's not highly experienced and make allowances for that.
Did the ops group roll stats? That would explain inter group disparity.