animal companion and DR and tactics other than damage

[666bender]

in high levels, unless its a 1 big hitter, AC suffer severe problams with DR.
a Trex will have no problam with 6d6+22 damage 1 attack...
the 3 attacing animals.... not so great.

for example, tiger got 3- 5 atacks, all at d6+11 pre buff.
at levels of 9+ a DR 10 isnt rare, and the animal can only pass magic and silver.
so, what to be done?

1) take stuff like Ape, use a club or spear, and with a big spear 2 handed it can do 1.5 STR and 3\level for power attack. it also got 15' reach like that... so, a possible plan.

2) use a backup maneuver. for someting like the tiger, i wonder what is best? Grapple alone can be risky with low Armor and so-so HP, but there are a few ideas: all take many feats and finish at level 10 or so.

all styles take 3 feats at least:

master grapple:
learn improve and greater grapple - than the kitty can attack -- > grab --- > move action pin in 1 round. who cares than about damage....with the bonueses of imp+greater grapple stacking with grab and some simple buff \ flank - a kitty can pin in 1 round.... mostly anything. (level 10: 6 bab, 7 str, 1 size, 1 g.magic fang, 4 grab, 2+2 grapple feats, 2 flank, 2 bard OR bull str = +27 CMB. ) ofc, the CMD wont be as high so most will get out.

why yes? : when its working - the opponent wont do anything but get out - while tiger\ape bites him 1 attack + sometimes rakes .

the whole party focus on the grappled .

why not? especially as kitty - you already have grab - so...Vs casters you can always grapple. it make the Ac very focued.

master bull rusher:
same as above, cmb of 22 +\-, the idea - if the DR stop the attack : you push the enemy and the WHOLE PARTY gets a free AOO. can be amazing.
with this style, one also learn Awesome Blow - so meduim foes are flown and tripped.

why yes? : tiger already got grab for some anti casters useage. the bull rush works well Vs foes up to huge - and provking every time might be nice. adding awesome blow can add "trip" like ability to animals who lack trips, and can send opponents of cliffs.

why not? : harder to work than grapple mastery, wont shut opponent down like grapple does .

focus 1 attack:
its a feat taxing way but, take a tiger, base bite 1d8.
improve natural weapon = 2d6
vital strike -= 4d6 +11
it's not amazing, but the damage will pass through.

sadly all the about cost the pricy feat of level 10, so i cant take Lunge.... making most 3 attacks AC's in a bad place (up close to enemy) unless they are Apes (reach + reach weapon = 15' away).

so:
1) any more ideas?
2_ what you think on the above? which path is the "best"
3) how can i defend an AC that has no reach or SUPER armor like a trex. ?
4) any more ways to pass Dr?

[666bender]

any opinions?
which is the "best" ?

[minoritarian]

You should be casting Greater Magic Fang on your animal companion every day anyway so it will be overcoming DR silver/adamantine/cold iron. It won't be overcoming DR/- or DR/chaos but neither is the party fighter.

Of your choices I'd say when fighting a creature your animal companion is inneffective against focus on strengths (use grab as a tiger on mooks). The animal companion is going to be better served picking off the minions than the bbeg anyway.

[Insain Dragoon]

minoritarian wrote:

You should be casting Greater Magic Fang on your animal companion every day anyway so it will be overcoming DR silver/adamantine/cold iron. It won't be overcoming DR/- or DR/chaos but neither is the party fighter.

Of your choices I'd say when fighting a creature your animal companion is inneffective against focus on strengths (use grab as a tiger on mooks). The animal companion is going to be better served picking off the minions than the bbeg anyway.

Read greater magic fang.

[Deadmanwalking]

Insain Dragoon wrote:

Read greater magic fang.

To elaborate: Greater Magic Fang explicitly doesn't get through any DR Magic Fang doesn't...which is why this is an issue in the first place.

On Topic: Are crafting Feats allowed? Craft Wondrous Item would let you simply make an AoMF for the poor tiger, and be generally very much worth it otherwise, too.

[minoritarian]

D:

[666bender]

Deadmanwalking wrote:

Insain Dragoon wrote:

Read greater magic fang.

To elaborate: Greater Magic Fang explicitly doesn't get through any DR Magic Fang doesn't...which is why this is an issue in the first place.

On Topic: Are crafting Feats allowed? Craft Wondrous Item would let you simply make an AoMF for the poor tiger, and be generally very much worth it otherwise, too.

no crafting.

no buying.
found only....
so, DR IS an issue, a big one...
so Ac need PLAN B , which of the path above is "preferred"?

[Captain Zoom]

Deadmanwalking wrote:

Insain Dragoon wrote:

Read greater magic fang.

To elaborate: Greater Magic Fang explicitly doesn't get through any DR Magic Fang doesn't...which is why this is an issue in the first place.

On Topic: Are crafting Feats allowed? Craft Wondrous Item would let you simply make an AoMF for the poor tiger, and be generally very much worth it otherwise, too.

I usually go the AoMF route. Expensive, but it works.

[My2Copper]

You could train the AC in intimidate and give him the intimidating prowess feat.

[Raymond Lambert]

No crafting or buying what you want.
Guess it is time to ask nicely to the GM for a convient gear drop of a Amuletof Mighty Fists +3/4/5. If after a level goes by and you do not still have one, politely remind the GM again.
Have you looked at feats like moonlight summons?

[666bender]

Raymond Lambert wrote:

No crafting or buying what you want.

Guess it is time to ask nicely to the GM for a convient gear drop of a Amuletof Mighty Fists +3/4/5. If after a level goes by and you do not still have one, politely remind the GM again.
Have you looked at feats like moonlight summons?

this solve the SUMMON problems.... not the animal companion problem....

[My2Copper]

My2Copper wrote:

You could train the AC in intimidate and give him the intimidating prowess feat.

If you want you could add weapon focus (claw or bite) later and then learn dazzling display.

[wraithstrike]

Take craft wondrous item, and buy the amulet of might fist. This also allows you to improve your companion with other magic items.

[Deadmanwalking]

666bender wrote:

no crafting.

no buying.
found only....
so, DR IS an issue, a big one...
so Ac need PLAN B , which of the path above is "preferred"?

Quoted, from the OP, with emphasis added. Crafting isn't an option, nor is buying anything. Stop suggesting it people, it's not helpful.

[TGMaxMaxer]

Eldritch claws is for magic/silver. If there are no crafting/bought items, not just AC are going to have problems.

Anything without a 2h weapon and a massive damage mod is going to be an issue.

You need to talk with the GM and find out what he's thinking. In a game where there are 5-10% of creatures with DR (mostly a humanoid enemy campaign) this will be fine. If it's outsider heavy, then you have a problem.

If the GM won't let you make/buy items, and doesn't want to drop one in when you bring this up, ask if he will allow feats similar to Eldritch Claws for cold iron/adamantine/alignments. If not, then seriously consider a different concept for this particular campaign, or a domain druid instead.

[Corvino]

You could also consider an AC with a single natural attack like a Wolf. single natural attacks are treated the same way as 2-handed weapons for strength bonuses and Power Attack. At level 9 you get an iterative attack with this weapon as well. A level 9 wolf has 24 strength at without additional buffs or investing bonuses at level-up.

High Strength + Power Attack + Improved Natural Weapon +/- Vital Strike = quite a lot of damage. You could get through DR this way, though losing pounce would be a pain.

As regards ACs using manufactured weapons, I'm pretty sure there's an FAQ that states that they will always prefer their natural weapons over manufactured ones. If your GM allows it, I guess it could fly though.

[wraithstrike]

Deadmanwalking wrote:

666bender wrote:

no crafting.

no buying.
found only....
so, DR IS an issue, a big one...
so Ac need PLAN B , which of the path above is "preferred"?

Quoted, from the OP, with emphasis added. Crafting isn't an option, nor is buying anything. Stop suggesting it people, it's not helpful.

I only skimmed the post, and now I will say the OP has to choices go for animals with only one big attack or accept that fights with DR will not be easy to deal with. Unless every fight has DR it should not be too bad.

[I'm Hiding In Your Closet]

It cannot be fooled by petty feats of stealth.
If it can't catch you, it can still spit acid at you from a distance.
It's resistant to bludgeoning damage.
It cannot be tripped.

It's a Giant Slug Companion, and it foams with horrid Late Cambrian laughter at those silly Monks.

[666bender]

so, to sum it :
option 1 : take 1 big hitter animal, this will also increase maneuvers and to hit since greater magic fang will be used at most effect

option 2: take greater grapple path, kitty with 3 grabs at round 1, than go for a pin.... no damage but still halting a foe.

option 3: get intimidate path to add some effects.

cool.

[666bender]

speaking on that:
lets take lvl 12 - a good med level cut over:
as seen below,
the wolf can be the most "tank" with HUGE 120 hp (con of 20), trip and either improve bull rush to allow all AOO or grapple-greater to pin opponents (no grab, but can add lockjaw spell).

the TRex is a beast glass cannon.
he has HUGE Armor class and can do infinite damage at 1 attack at reach.
but, lower HP will mean he is a viable victim to spells...

the kitty is the best Vs non DR foes, but faced to an opponent with DR 10+.... he will be able to grapple only. (graaple + pin at round 1)

which would you take?

a wolf:
hp = 120 (we allow 6 hp/hp and 8 lvl 1 to animals like characters) with toughness.
Ac = 28 not buffed (mithril chain shirt). add 4 with barkskin.
hit = +15, 2d6+19 damage (4d6+19 with vital strike, if taken)
can trip at +18 and grapple or bull rush at +22

Trex :
HP = 92
AC = 33 (37 with barkskin)
hit: +15 10' reach, damage: 3d6+24 (6d6+24 with vital strike if taken)
grapple with grab at +26 (and re-grapple with greater grapple)

tiger:
hp: 112
Ac : 27 (31)
to hit: 12/12/12 damage (1d8+12, 1d6+12*2, rake on charge)
all 3 attacks has grab, at +23 grapple.

[Black Feather]

One RAW combo:

Deinonychus Companion -- 2 stat level bumps one to Int and one to Cha.

Having an Int of 3 lets it qualify for any feat it can physically do, and having a Cha of 15 lets it qualify for Flagbearer.

Hello to a +1 / +1 morale bonus for the whole party.

It gets even more interesting if your DM rules that your Dino can hold a long pole or spear; you give it Banner of the Ancient Kings for +2 to those bonuses.

[Rathendar]

If using a kitty just have it take power attack to offset the DR minus. It will miss sometimes, but it can still chip through most DR. carry buffs for it like bull strength, strong jaw, animal growth. Barkskin on any AC increases its survival a bunch.

[Bobo D]

Step 1: roc companion...
Step 2: have it drop stuff
Step 3: profit

[666bender]

Bobo D wrote:

Step 1: roc companion...

Step 2: have it drop stuff
Step 3: profit

Like!

[666bender]

Rathendar wrote:

If using a kitty just have it take power attack to offset the DR minus. It will miss sometimes, but it can still chip through most DR. carry buffs for it like bull strength, strong jaw, animal growth. Barkskin on any AC increases its survival a bunch.

Strong jaw and animal growth WILL fix the problam indeed. ....

It make a tiger hit well and with great damage.

Is improve natural weapon worth it ?
Claw will improve all take and claw ( 4 attacks) by 1 average. The bite will grow to 2d6 (+2.5) and bump it well with strong jaw...
I think I will learn improve grapple +greater grapple, foes I can't pass the DR - will be pinned In Round 1 (Dm opproved greater grapple work as a move after the standard intimation ) . So if foe is dangerous ( high DR or focus killing the kitty. ) he will pin and hold while we all go for the kill.
Also , maxing acrobatics ( 1rank in swim and climb ) will allow flanking. .