The Shocker!

[apprenticewizard]

This is the character i'm playing atm, just to give you another option :

human sorcerer (crossblooded arcane/stormborn)

1 eschew materials, point blank shot, reach spell
3 elemental spell
5 intensified spell
bonus feat: spell focus (evocation)
7 quicken spell
9 greater spell focus (evocation)

traits
magical lineage(shocking grasp)

Bloodline Arcana: Whenever you cast a spell with the electricity or sonic descriptor, increase the save DC by 1.

Bloodline Arcana: Whenever you apply a metamagic feat to a spell that increases the slot used by at least one level, increase the spell's DC by +1. This bonus does not stack with itself and does not apply to spells modified by the Heighten Spell feat.

[blackbloodtroll]

Interesting.

[master_marshmallow]

Why both with Spell Focus Evocation at that point if you are just maxing out Shocking Grasp?

I think Spontaneous Metafocus (Shocking Grasp) would be a much more appropriate feat to take.

I wouldn't bother with cross blooded at that point either.

The build could really benefit from Additional Traits, to pick up Wayang Spell Hunter/Metamagic Master and this game's version of Weapon Finesse.

Intensified Spell and Empower Spell immediately come to mind as your spells of choice.

[MattR1986]

Really? The Shocker?

Maybe you can make a character that specializes in throwing vegetables. You can call him The Salad Tosser.

Or a character that specializes in throwing 5 pointed pastry shurikens. You can call him The Chocolate Starfish.

[blackbloodtroll]

master_marshmallow wrote:

Why both with Spell Focus Evocation at that point if you are just maxing out Shocking Grasp?

I think Spontaneous Metafocus (Shocking Grasp) would be a much more appropriate feat to take.

I wouldn't bother with cross blooded at that point either.

The build could really benefit from Additional Traits, to pick up Wayang Spell Hunter/Metamagic Master and this game's version of Weapon Finesse.

Intensified Spell and Empower Spell immediately come to mind as your spells of choice.

Well, the focus would be electricity, but I had not thought about just focusing entirely on one spell.

I had hoped there would be, at least a few other electricity based spells.

Is this really the best way to go?

[blackbloodtroll]

MattR1986 wrote:

Really? The Shocker?

Maybe you can make a character that specializes in throwing vegetables. You can call him The Salad Tosser.

Or a character that specializes in throwing 5 pointed pastry shurikens. You can call him The Chocolate Starfish.

You do know there is a Spiderman villain named the Shocker, right?

More sound based, but nonetheless.

Also, this really wouldn't be the name of the PC, but rather, the build.

[master_marshmallow]

What level are you starting at?
What wealth are you allocated with?
What races would you prefer?

If Aasimar, is Blood of Angels supplemental material available?

[blackbloodtroll]

master_marshmallow wrote:

What level are you starting at?

What wealth are you allocated with?
What races would you prefer?

If Aasimar, is Blood of Angels supplemental material available?

1) 2nd level.

2) 1000gp to start.

3) It does not matter, but we are limited to Core, Aasimar, or Tiefling.

4) All Paizo material books are allowed. No alternate rules(like hero points), but other than that, it's good.

[Dark Netwerk]

I like Stormborn for the +1 DC to both electric and sonic spells (such as Ear Piercing Scream). If I had to choose, I'd prefer +1 DC to +1 damage/die (well, ok. Maybe I'd have to really think about it and calc things out). Crossblooded with Elemental so you'll have more spells to choose from and still be viable against those resistant to electricity (although if you feel there is enough electricity spells to snag, cross with Orc or Draconic). If you're human, Spell Focus (evocation) and Varisian Tattoo. So your electric burning hands at 2nd level is 3d6 damage at DC 17 (11+4 cha+1 bloodline +1 SF) {Hmm, as compared to 3d6+3 at DC 16... someone should run the numbers}. If only you could be a Sylph for the extra +1 CL and pick up the tattoo later.

[master_marshmallow]

My thoughts are this:
In a 15 point buy game you won't have the resources to max out your CHA and obtain as many strong spell DCs as you could in a rolled or 20-25 point game. You will invariably need DEX and CON in order to survive. This makes Shocking Grasp a strong choice because it does not impose a saving throw on the target, and it gains a +3 on attacks made against opponents who are wearing metal armor. This means you can be effective without having to invest in a very high CHA leaving you enough points to have a well rounded character and still be effective.

Turning Shocking Grasp into a ranged touch attack via Reach Spell makes this a very scary combination. And focusing exclusively on that spell for damage allows you to use your spells known on picking up more utility spells that you otherwise would not be considering. Knock, Rope Trick, and Mount come to mind.

Looking into Bloodlines, I actually am leaning towards the Draconic Bloodline, as it gives you the bonus on damage like the Orc one, but its Bloodline Powers are seemingly more beneficial because you don't gain Light Sensitivity. Blue or Copper will be the dragons you want to emulate for this build, and both of them are identical mechanically. It also has much more useful bonus feats being that you can pick up Improved Initiative and Quicken Spell from it.

Human is ideal here to make the build work.

15 point buy
(-2)STR 8
(5)DEX 14
(5)CON 14
(0)INT 10
(0)WIS 10
(7)CHA 17

Spoiler:

The Shocker
CG medium humanoid (human)
Init +2; Perception +4
DEFENSE
HP 10 +1d6
AC=[16] Touch=[12] Flat Footed=[14] (10 +4 shield +2 DEX)
Fort +2; Ref +2; Will +2
OFFENSE
Speed 30
2 claws (6 rounds/day) +2/+2 (d4-1/x2)
Bloodline Arcana: [electricity] spells get +1 damage per die rolled
SPELLS
Cantrips(DC 13) Jolt*; Detect Magic; Prestidigitation; Light; Read Magic; Resistance; Disrupt Undead
level 1(4/day DC 14) Shocking Grasp; Shield
STATISTICS
STR 8; DEX 14; CON 14; INT 10; WIS 10; CHA 17
BAB +0
CMB -1; CMD 11
TRAITS: Weapon Finesse*; Magical Lineage (Shocking Grasp)
FEATS: Spontaneous Metafocus (Shocking Grasp); Reach Spell
SKILLS: Diplomacy +4; Perception +4; Spellcraft +4

Ask your DM if Jolt is available, it is your ideal cantrip as it benefits from the Draconic Bloodline Power.
Weapon Finesse works very nicely with the Claws Ability, only shame is that you still take the -1 on damage from STR. But it gives you options in case you run low on spells, and delivering Shocking Grasp as a touch attack is now based on DEX should you be in a position where you cannot use Reach Spell on it, or Reach Spell would be disadvantageous.

Projected build:
lvl 3) Precise Shot
lvl 5) Additional Traits (Wayang Spell Hunter/Metamagic Master; Reactionary)
lvl 7) Improved Initiative (Bloodline Feat); Intensified Spell
lvl 9) Empower Spell
lvl 11) Spell Penetration
lvl 13) Quicken Spell (Bloodline Feat); Elemental Spell
lvl 15) Spell Perfection (Shocking Grasp)
lvl 17) Greater Spell Penetration
lvl 19) Toughness (Bloodline Feat); Weapon Focus (Ray)

Naturally these feats are all subject to change by whatever you find necessary in game.

Big items to save up for are naturally the stat items, focusing on DEX primarily, and the Robes of Arcane Heritage. I would also recommend, at 7th level ideally, picking up a Scarlet and Blue Sphere with Fly as its associated skill.

[blackbloodtroll]

Jolt is available, as is all the other "Rare Cantrips."

So, is Crossblooded not worth it?

[master_marshmallow]

blackbloodtroll wrote:

Jolt is available, as is all the other "Rare Cantrips."

So, is Crossblooded not worth it?

Crossblooded delays your spell knowledge and progression making it nigh impossible to be an effective caster.

The additional damage from the orc bloodline may be the only thing that makes crossblooded appealing, and when I compare it to not being able to learn an additional 1st level spell until 5th level I find it to be more of a problem than extra additional damage is worth.

You get extra damage from the draconic bloodline on shocking grasp so long as you pick either Blue or Copper dragons to be the color you inherit. Even if you switch the element with Elemental Spell you still gain that extra damage because the descriptor has not changed. That should be enough extra damage without sacrificing your role as an arcane caster.

[blackbloodtroll]

So, Reach Spell and Point Blank Shot for 1st level feats, with Magical Lineage as one of the starting traits?

[Imbicatus]

You will be changing your main trick into a full-round action instead of a standard by using Reach Shocking Grasp on a Sorcerer. Close Range and no move action may make it so you can't use your main spell on some rounds.

You have jolt to fall back on in that case, but it's something to be aware of.

[master_marshmallow]

blackbloodtroll wrote:

So, Reach Spell and Point Blank Shot for 1st level feats, with Magical Lineage as one of the starting traits?

To avoid taking casting time penalties, I would actually recommend Spontaneous Metafocus over Point Blank Shot.

You will need it to take Precise Shot later, so taking Point Blank at 3rd level is not a bad call.

[blackbloodtroll]

Hmm.

Spontaneous Metafocus seems a must, if nabbing any Metamagic feat.

Not sure about the second starting trait yet.

[master_marshmallow]

I like weapon finesse, but that's just me.

There are plenty of good choices.

[blackbloodtroll]

Well, Weapon Finesse would be for touch attacks, which a Reach Shocking Grasp would not be.

It could be for other things I suppose.

Havoc of the Society seems alright, for an additional +1 Force damage to all damage spells.

[Suthainn]

I actually made a somewhat similar character recently, though the inspiration was Palpatine's Force Lightning so it may not be quite what you're looking for.

Sylph (for Air Affinity racial)
Crossblooded Blue Draconic/Primal Air Sorcerer

1 Reach Metamagic
3 Spell Focus (Evocation)
5 Intensify Metamagic
7 Spell Specialisation (Shocking Grasp), Bloodline - Empower Metamagic
9 Spell Penetration
10(Swap Spell Specialisation to another spell)

Traits: Wayang Spellhunter & Magical Lineage, both with Shocking Grasp

The end result was ranged Shocking Grasps (relatively easy to hit with and no saves against) that do respectable damage and you can essentially cast all day, maxing out at 10d6+20 at 8th level, not bad for a first level spell that only needs to hit Touch AC and you can use from a distance.

If your GM allows it (since strict RAW it's not, but many I've seen do) you might also consider the Tattooed archetype as well for a touch more 'oomph'.

[blackbloodtroll]

Wildblooded does not stack with Crossblooded.

Also, Sylph is not allowed.

Tattooed archetype is allowed.

[MattR1986]

Just focus on lightning bolt and go palpatine all the way. You will pay for your lack of vision!

[Imbicatus]

I really wish there was an electricity friendly Oracle Mystery. Wasting Curse is so thematic for a Palpatine/Sith lightning based character.

[MattR1986]

I'm sure with a quick search of the forums, someone has made a Palpatine build. And just dip into dual cursed and go another class.

[7heprofessor]

I have been over this so many times before, but I'll say it again:

The delayed spell acquisition of Crossblooded completely negates any of the benefits it grants until 19th level. If you're theorycrafting high level PCs, then it's amazing. Outside of that, you are at a clear statistical disadvantage in almost every single category except for niche-DPR cases. That is not a solid enough foundation to focus a build around in a standard campaign. You will notice yourself lagging behind at level 3-19...not a great feeling, IMO.

I would strongly suggest you stay away from Crossblooded and instead focus on the Arcane bloodline and supplement your blasting arsenal with traits, feats, equipment, and savvy spell selection.

Either way...just my 2 cp.

[MattR1986]

People theorycrafting for 20th level to show their highest number crunch even though people almost never get to that high a level? NO! Say its not so!

[andreww]

MattR1986 wrote:

People theorycrafting for 20th level to show their highest number crunch even though people almost never get to that high a level? NO! Say its not so!

As you know very well it isnt. Most discussions centre around level 10-12. Crossblooded still isnt worth it unless all you are interested in is damage. Arcane will generally do better as a sole bloodline especially with a focus on increasing dc's and dazing spell. I would stay away from precise or point blank shot, both are terrible for casters.

[bfobar]

I have a fire blaster that rocks, so here is how I would build.

I would go human for the extra feat.

stat buy Str: 7, Dex 12, Con 12, Int 13, Wis 9, Cha 19

Yes the build is fragile, but the trick is to never be in melee ever. With the dex and con of 12, shocking grasp and ranged touch spells aren't good options. All level ups go into cha. Int is high enough for spell specialization which is worth it IMO

Traits: Reactionary and magical lineage favorite spell. I'd choose ball lightning.

Class and Archtype: Crossblooded orc\draconic for raw damage or tattooed draconic for getting a familiar and some fun abilities. Personally, I'd avoid crossblooded because I don't think the penalties are worth the extra few points of damage. I think that draconic is superior to elemental for several reasons: 1. primal may not stack with an archtype I'm not sure. 2. The skill is better, the spells are better, the 3rd level ability is better, the first and 9th get replaced by tattooed archtype if you do that, and the 15th is basically a wash. The capstone draconic is also better IMO. Tattooed archtype also replaces the weakest draconic bloodline powers.

Important Feats:
Spell focus and greater: Save DCs as high as possible.
Mages (Varisian) Tattoo and spell specialization: caster level as high as possible. This is huge in low levels
Intensify and Empower spell: Big damage boosts. Take these first for raw damage.
Dazing spell and Persistant Spell: High powered lockdown. Take these first for a more controller focused blaster.
Spell penetration and greater: Punch through spell resistance. Get after boosting caster level.
Spell perfection: Yes always.
Eschew materials and Improved Familair: If you went tattooed these are okay. I've never missed eschew materials. Monsters don't have time to target my spell component pouch. I wouldn't take improved familiar because I prefer getting a +4 initiative boost.

Other good feats: Improved initiative, spontaneous metafocus, quicken spell, maximize spell.

Magic Items: Nothing out of the ordinary needed.

How I'd play it: Levels 1-3 suck. You're frail and don't have a lot of spells. level 3 is the roughest. I'd use burning hands from behind the fighter and then support spells (Daze!). If you go tattooed draconic, then your increased caster level from mage's tattoo, spell focus, and spell specialization has burning hands hitting at 4d4 with a DC of 16 at level 1.
4-6: You can cast nearly every round with smart 0 level spells (like daze). I recommend frost fall or flaming sphere for a level 2 attack spell.
7+: Now you have a fair amount of lightning spells and can blast away.

Playing a tattooed draconic fire blaster, I started shredding encounters at level 7. Like, "Oh hey I won initiative, the rest of the party can go back to sleep now" bad. Before that, It was just consistent damage on par with the fighter.

I think I rolled attack rolls twice. Regretted both times. I would not recommend shocking grasp at all, acid splash always misses in a melee, and trying to AoO is a waste of time. If you start your turn and an enemy is threatening you, use a withdraw action.

[bfobar]

blackbloodtroll wrote:

Wildblooded does not stack with Crossblooded.

Also, Sylph is not allowed.

Tattooed archetype is allowed.

tattooed and draconic go together like peanut butter and jelly IMO. The familiar and caster level boost puts it on par with arcane.

[bfobar]

Also frost fall is a super fun sorcerer spell at levels 4-6. I don't know why it doesn't get rated higher. It's a cold based multithreat bursting mage killer.

[blackbloodtroll]

I did not know Tattooed would work.
I don't mind missing the claws power.

[blackbloodtroll]

Okay, going on some other suggestions, here is another very rough build:

The Shocker:

The Shocker
Human Sorcerer (Tattooed Sorcerer) 2
CN Medium humanoid (human)
Init +8; Senses Perception +6
--------------------
Defense
--------------------
AC 13, touch 12, flat-footed 11 (+1 armor, +2 Dex)
hp 16 (2d6+4)
Fort +2, Ref +2, Will +3
--------------------
Offense
--------------------
Speed 30 ft.
Melee cold iron gauntlet +0 (1d3-1)
Ranged sling +3 (1d4-1)
Spell-Like Abilities (CL 2nd; concentration +5)
. . 3/day—dancing lights
Sorcerer (Tattooed Sorcerer) Spells Known (CL 2nd; concentration +5):
1st (5/day)—shield, shocking grasp
0 (at will)—acid splash, detect magic, jolt, prestidigitation, ray of frost
--------------------
Statistics
--------------------
Str 8, Dex 14, Con 14, Int 10, Wis 10, Cha 17
Base Atk +1; CMB +0; CMD 12
Feats Reach Spell, Spontaneous Metafocus, Varisian Tattoo
Traits magical lineage, reactionary
Skills Bluff +7, Intimidate +10, Knowledge (arcana) +4, Perception +6, Sense Motive +2, Spellcraft +4, Survival +3, Use Magic Device +7
Languages Common
SQ bloodline tattoos, bloodlines (draconic), familiar tattoo
Combat Gear wand of mage armor (50 charges), bottled lightning (5), thunderstone (5); Other Gear haramaki, cold iron gauntlet, sling, sling bullets (10), backpack, masterwork, masterwork tool, survival kit, masterwork, wrist sheath, spring loaded, 20 gp, 9 sp
--------------------
Special Abilities
--------------------
Bloodline Tattoos (Ex) Bloodline spells are cast at +1 caster level.
Empathic Link with Familiar (Su) You have an empathic link with your Arcane Familiar.
Familiar Bonus: +4 bonus on initiative checks You gain the Alertness feat while your familiar is within arm's reach.
Familiar Tattoo (Su) A tattooed sorcerer gains a familiar as an arcane bond, as a wizard equal to her sorcerer level. Her sorcerer levels stack with any wizard or witch levels she possesses when determining the powers of her familiar.
Magical Lineage (Shocking Grasp) A chosen spell counts as 1 level lower when metamagic feats are applied to it.
Reach Spell You can cast a spell with a range of touch, close, or medium as one range category higher.
Share Spells with Familiar Can cast spells with a target of "You" on the familiar with a range of touch.
Spontaneous Metafocus (Shocking Grasp) Apply metamagic to one spell and keep the standard casting time
Varisian Tattoo (Evocation) Spells from chosen school gain +1 caster level.
Wand of mage armor (50 charges) Add this item to create a wand of a chosen spell.

So, is this viable, or is a different route better?

[master_marshmallow]

Totally viable, and interesting.
3d6 Shocking Grasps delivered as touch attacks are very nice.

[Umbranus]

Imbicatus wrote:

I really wish there was an electricity friendly Oracle Mystery. Wasting Curse is so thematic for a Palpatine/Sith lightning based character.

The wind mystery is rather electricity friendly. It just doesn't get the damage spells.

[Remy Balster]

blackbloodtroll wrote:

Randarak wrote:

Zwordsman wrote:

.. scrotching ray is fun. As are lightning shuriken..

I don't know what scrotching ray is, but I think it would hurt my scrotch something fierce...

Scrotching is scratching the scrote.

Ray, is just a guy who is good at scrotching.

He is also fun. ^.~

[blackbloodtroll]

Remy Balster wrote:

blackbloodtroll wrote:

Randarak wrote:

Zwordsman wrote:

.. scrotching ray is fun. As are lightning shuriken..

I don't know what scrotching ray is, but I think it would hurt my scrotch something fierce...

Scrotching is scratching the scrote.

Ray, is just a guy who is good at scrotching.

He is also fun. ^.~

Peter, Egon, and Winston usually just watch, and make sure nobody crosses the streams.

[Remy Balster]

Just tossing out something off the wall.

Human

Cleric(Separatist) 1/Sorcerer(Crossblooded draconic-blue/orc) 1

Pick up the Torture Sub-Domain for your separatist domain power.

Spoiler:

Prior to making a melee attack roll, you can choose to convert all damage from that strike into nonlethal damage, adding your Wisdom modifier to the damage. If you succeed in your attack, as a free action you can make an Intimidate check against your target to demoralize the target. You gain a bonus on your Intimidate check equal to the amount of nonlethal damage dealt by the painful smite. You can use this ability a number of times per day equal to 3 + your Wisdom modifier.

Combo that with shocking grasp.

This is a pretty cool combo, imo. As your electric attack would be so painful it actually scares people. Fitting for the whole irl torture techniques of electrocution n such...

Perfect for a cha based caster, especially one who keeps intimidate up to max ranks. Honestly you wouldn't even need to, your shocking grasp would give you so high a bonus to this check, that they'd certainly be shaken for a long, long time.

Of course taking whatever feats n traits you could to up the CL of evocation/shocking grasp. + either magical lineage or wayang spellhunter. Probably wayang+ magical knack. Then spell focus evocation and spell specialization shocking grasp. It'd be @ 4d6+13 with an average of 27 damage. Comboed with an intimidate of 2+3+3 or so for +8 and your free intimidate check would be at +35. (+25 to +45)

Pick up Intensify, Empower, and Spontaneous Metafocus in whatever order seems right. @ Lvl 8, an Painful Smite - Intensified Empowered Shocking Grasp would do (10d6+22)*1.5 or avg 86. Intim would be about +14, for a total of +100 intimidate check to demoralize on average.

Could be fun.

[blackbloodtroll]

That is pretty cool, but single classed full caster is preferred.

[Peet]

I once played a blaster sorcerer with the Razmiran priest archetype (not the PRC). Note that the archetype doesn't require you to be a priest of Razmir; just a false god in general. My gnome fire sorcerer had made up his own god, "Kraggaddakkadoom lord of the volcano" and went around trying to get people to worship him, knowing all along that it was a big joke.

It actually works fairly well and doesn't interfere with your blasting at all. You get false focus instead of eschew materials (get a holy symbol tattoo as soon as you can) and some interesting UMD abilities.

Peet

[Imbicatus]

Umbranus wrote:

Imbicatus wrote:

I really wish there was an electricity friendly Oracle Mystery. Wasting Curse is so thematic for a Palpatine/Sith lightning based character.

The wind mystery is rather electricity friendly. It just doesn't get the damage spells.

The Damage spells are the most important part, and there are only three revelations that are electricity related. Still, it's better than nothing. I suppose you could go Elf or Half Elf and use Ancient Lorekeeper to get the Damage spells.

[blackbloodtroll]

Okay, with the last posted build above, how would one go about the build at later levels?

Also, what are some key equipment that is vital to the build?

[Gregory Connolly]

You need to grab Intensified Spell to keep damage scaling at level 5. I would imagine some combination of Empower Spell, Maximize Spell and Quicken Spell being used after that. Spell Specialization doesn't really fit this build as you are going to be needing lots of metamagic feats and you don't already have Spell Focus Evocation. I would prioritize AC and saves as your offense is ranged touch attacks. Maybe grab Improved Initiative at some point and a dex belt is a good investment for most casters. A lesser metamagic rod of elemental spell (Acid or Cold) should be enough to deal with electricity resistance. Pages of Spell Knowledge will help you with low level utility magic. Craft Wondrous Item is strong for Sorcerers because they can make pages of spells they don't already know.

[blackbloodtroll]

That seems solid.

[master_marshmallow]

Intensified is definitely the way to go for damage, you want it at level 5 because of your tattoo allowing you to actually exceed the damage cap of 5d6 at that point.

Empower Spell is your next most important metamagic to tack on, since it gives you +50% damage.

Maximize I feel personally can be skipped because it is statistically worse than Empower.

Elemental Spell will allow you to switch your damage type against enemies who are resistant or immune to electricity, and because the feat does not change the descriptor of your spell, you still get the +1 damage per die rolled thanks to your Bloodline Arcana.

You can pick up Improved Initiative and Quicken Spell from your Bloodline.

[bfobar]

Just play really smart with trying to touch big angry bad guys. You will need to be flanking to hit reliably with shocking grasp with your strength, and then you'll get hit back. 16 hp at level 2 means you can be dropped in 1 hit from a guy with a greatsword. A critical kills you, and your AC isn't good.

Thats why at levels 1-3 I'd recommend any spell that doesn't involve standing next to the bad guys. Your best defense is staying out of melee. I would add shocking grasp later when I already have intensify spell and can do like 10d6+10 damage and know that I can reliably cast defensively. I would only use it if something ran up next to me to bother me. It would be a defensive spell.

[blackbloodtroll]

No being next to the bad guys, is exactly why I went for the Reach Spell.