Dex builds usually, although monkey goblins and wayangs dont possess strength penalties.
probably you should look at Druid or Cavalier..
For Optimizing i will say probably they're not the best race, but for flavour... goblin and gnomes are my first choice :D
maybe you can take a look: Gnome Cavalier
Also you have:
- Tengu
- Wayangs
these have not strenght malus
Tengu are medium. Also goblin gunslingers are the best gunslingers, no doubt.
yess sorry..i mistake with Kobolds that have Strenght malus!
I am currently playing an halfling paladin on a mount and it's totally feasible!
It depends on what you mean by "good."
I have found most people who say that something is "good" on the boards they mean best or uber in some sense. Meaning if you can't get the highest bonus possible compared to another race then it can't be "good."
I tend to agree with Gnoams you won't do as well as at low level.
Dex based builds they can do fine with. I have been threatening a gnome urban barbarian on my group for awhile. Though such a build would need to have an agile weapon.
They're not so good relative to say, a half orc who put his +2 into strength because slow speed and -4 potential strength, and weapon damage downgrade are all working against you. All of that probably could've been handled better, but whatever at this point.
They can make a good martial in that they can still turn into a heavy hitting monster though. Sometimes people go dex build that tries to eschew strength like dervish dance to make up for the lower strength. Also, the way mounts work, small characters on a medium mount can be extremely advantageous over the guy on a big horse. Even if you go any other build where they don't have the advantages above, all they really lose are the bits I mentioned at the top.
So long as they are not str oriented they tend to do quite nicely, though they can be str oriented and still do nicely.
Remember to try and avoid using Feats for something you can do with money since the Agile enchantment works just as well as Dervish Dance, but one costs you an important feat.
Ratfolk are some of my favorite small characters, mostly because of their ability to gain flanking from attacking the same target if sharing their square with another ratfolk. This is one of the few ways to make Rogues completely viable in combat, especially with whips. Borrowing Teeth is also stupidly useful for every class.
Sohei is another good class for small mounted charActers. Freaked autocorrect is annoying
halflings have a racial feat that is basically a second power attack that works on large or larger creatures (ie-pretty much all the important enemies once you start getting up in level). So..yeah, they can do pretty well as melee characters.
And really, working against the size penalty is not impossible...just a bit painful. From the way I tend to look at scores in point buy for a pure melee character, it usually works out like I am using a point buy that is 5 points lower than the actual one. Painful...but you might still be able to get your class's abilities to cover up for it (barbarian is always a favorite, since it improves strength and solves the speed problems you also often see). It does help that the bonus to attack due to size somewhat covers the penalty to strength.
in most campaigns small creatures make the best mounted combatants (since their medium mounts can go wherever the rest of the party goes, unlike a large mount).
there are also a bunch of melee builds that don't rely on strength... dervish dance/agile has already been mentioned, there's a couple builds that make sneak attack fairly viable, and a channel smite/guided hand melee cleric is a fun work around... if you get to play anything mythic you can add dex to damage with any finesse-able weapon and there are feats that make channel smite and guided hand even more awesome.
halflings have a racial feat that is basically a second power attack that works on large or larger creatures (ie-pretty much all the important enemies once you start getting up in level). So..yeah, they can do pretty well as melee characters.
Actually it works on creatures two or more size categorizes larger then yourself so if you Reduce Person you're looking at Medium and up. Sure you may have 0 reach and your weapon will be dealing 1d1 but its hilarious and surprisingly effective when stacked with Piranha Strike and Agile/Dervish Dance.
Halflings with scimitars (even though I hate scimitars, not because of the weapon, but because every dex character got pigeon holed into using it) can be straight scary. The bonus to hit, ac, saves and stealth is great and as a light armored skirmisher (dex magus/swashbuckler/bards archetypes really stand out) they can really hold their own.
Now you won't out damage a charging pouncing barbarian, but you really should be filling a different role than him.
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You need to seriously plan out your plan on how to deal damage in advance. You need an alternative to Strength for damage.
Besides that, you also need to worry about movement speed. 20ft isn't great, and if armor pushes that down to 15 you're really going to have a hard time.
These problems can be solved in many ways, but you MUST solve them somehow. Playing a small warrior requires a bit more planning than a medium warrior.
You need to seriously plan out your plan on how to deal damage in advance. You need an alternative to Strength for damage.
Besides that, you also need to worry about movement speed. 20ft isn't great, and if armor pushes that down to 15 you're really going to have a hard time.
These problems can be solved in many ways, but you MUST solve them somehow. Playing a small warrior requires a bit more planning than a medium warrior.
Well, I wouldn't say you have to find an 'alternative' to strength (for a 20 point buy, I'd end up with 16/14/14 physical stats instead of my preferred 18/14/14), but a supplement would be nice due to the slight decrease in strength as well as damage dice on weapons.
Halflings do have the nice advantage of having an alternate racial trait that gives them a 30' speed. Although, they still need a lot of planning (carrying capacity for small characters is far lower than medium ones; you really run the risk of going over encumbrance)
Well, I wouldn't say you have to find an 'alternative' to strength (for a 20 point buy, I'd end up with 16/14/14 physical stats instead of my preferred 18/14/14), but a supplement would be nice due to the slight decrease in strength as well as damage dice on weapons.
Halflings do have the nice advantage of having an alternate racial trait that gives them a 30' speed. Although, they still need a lot of planning (carrying capacity for small characters is far lower than medium ones; you really run the risk of going over encumbrance)
I think you mean 14/14/14 for the point buy. Not only do you not get the +2 but you take a -2 to your strength.
Ask your GM if you can play an Iron Dwarf
They seem a bit OP, though they have a bunch of disadvantages to round them out. No more OP than an Aasimar or Tiefling though.
Peet
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I made a barouge for Serpent Skull AP and loved it. (Barb/rogue multiclass.) Back in 3E I played a halfling pally and that was fun too.
Our party has a halfling Barbarian/Rogue.
He has Spring Attack and a decent movement, so he spends combats pinging off the enemy's flanking sweet spot with a two-handed blade.
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I made a barouge for Serpent Skull AP and loved it. (Barb/rogue multiclass.) Back in 3E I played a halfling pally and that was fun too.Our party has a halfling Barbarian/Rogue.
He has Spring Attack and a decent movement, so he spends combats pinging off the enemy's flanking sweet spot with a two-handed blade.
Sounds familiar. The barouge is a great small race option.
Well, I wouldn't say you have to find an 'alternative' to strength (for a 20 point buy, I'd end up with 16/14/14 physical stats instead of my preferred 18/14/14), but a supplement would be nice due to the slight decrease in strength as well as damage dice on weapons.
Halflings do have the nice advantage of having an alternate racial trait that gives them a 30' speed. Although, they still need a lot of planning (carrying capacity for small characters is far lower than medium ones; you really run the risk of going over encumbrance)
I think you mean 14/14/14 for the point buy. Not only do you not get the +2 but you take a -2 to your strength.
Nope. Those stats are right. You see, this is due to careful minmaxing for a gnome or halfling. You see, the dex for halflings and con for gnomes is actually 12 (2 points) instead of 14(5 points), and are raised to those numbers by their racial modifiers. That saves 3 points. And I of course dump CHA, which is less painful since both of those races have bonuses to CHA, resulting in a CHA of 9 instead of 7. That gives another 4 points. Together, these free up 7 points.
Usually, with humans or the halves, I go with a 16 (10 points) and add a +2 racial bonus to get 18. But with the small races, I'd use the points freed up above to get an 18 (17 points) points to get a 16 after racials. And with the bonus due to small size, their attack rolls are the same as the human (damage rolls do suffer though).
In the end, bonuses to secondary stats as well as ones to tertiary stats you would normally unwilling to dump can work almost as well as a bonus to a primary stat. The only limiting factor with small races is their penalty to a primary stat (although a penalty to a secondary stat can be just as painful, as seen with elves when I am unwilling to let the stat be lowered).
My fighter paladin gnome always does twice the damage of anyone else on the pfs table. Because with the mounted combat feats I'm able to get a charge off every round. For a minimal of tripled lance damage.
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Small characters are -4 strength compared to the usual martial races, which means -1 accuracy -3 damage.
They get +1 to hit from being small. and it is -2 to strength so you only loose up to -2 to damage from the strength penalty. You loose a bit more when you factor weapon size damage. But that can be fixed either with Spells (lead Blades) or by using bigger weapons. Barb Archetype Titan Mauler.
Typically small types go the Dex route . But the ones going the Strength route are not too far behind their Medium counterparts.
Someone mentioned Risky Striker feat. A Halfling with that feat can match the medium sized counterpart. A gnome can take Arcane strike to keep his damage up. Outside Core races non SLA races have it rough but they favor ranged or spell casting.
If you want to be doing numbers that match the typically 2 handed brute then go Small Charger. x3 damage from spirited charge adding on Power attack+ Risky striker/Arcane Strike + typical Class Bonuses. You hardly see a difference. when you just take average damage you only notice about a 6 damage difference between large and small races with no Accuracy Loss.
Only the true Min-Maxers care about a few points of damage.
Small characters are -4 strength compared to the usual martial races, which means -1 accuracy -3 damage.They get +1 to hit from being small. and it is -2 to strength so you only loose up to -2 to damage from the strength penalty. You loose a bit more when you factor weapon size damage. But that can be fixed either with Spells (lead Blades) or by using bigger weapons.
He said 3 because when using 2 handed weapons the damage is increased by 50%.
Again a mounted small martial will out damage any other character over the long haul due to their ability to "nuke" every round once they get wheeling charge. Level 5 or so.
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My fighter paladin gnome always does twice the damage of anyone else on the pfs table. Because with the mounted combat feats I'm able to get a charge off every round. For a minimal of tripled lance damage.
I am the same way on my halfling Ranger Charger. At level 5 Last session I was averaging 54 damage each charge. I crit once last session for 105 damage. I was playing up out of tier and still 1 shot Creatures. I'm doing like 10 less damage then a player who has a level 10 2 handed great-sword fighter who came over and watched us after his game. He commented about how unless he is hasted or buffed he can hardly keep pace with my unbuffed damage like that. No medium mounted type could be doing what he is doing. Large horses/mounts can't go the places a medium mount can.
Not to mention in PFS you only get to level 11. At most with haste you get 4 attacks at the final level. A mounted type is doing 3 attacks basically in 1 by earlier levels. So until level 11 a mounted lancer will hit harder then most melee types. Half the time I never have to roll damage because the x3 on my statics are enough to kill. What also gives them the edge is when it comes to DR. Each attack is subject to the DR. A typical fighter has DR applied to his attacks for each attack. A charger only has DR applied to his 1 big attack. Next advantage is not being under something to receive a full attack response if your target didn't die. Yeah it sucks when they get up on-top of you but having a long sword and power attack can help if they happen to corner you.Basically don't hate on the smaller guys as there is also advantages to being small.
What about weapon sizes....can a small creature weild say a medium dagger and still get the 1d4 for it?
They can do that yeah, but it will be considered a one handed weapon for the purposes of wielding and they'll take a -2 penalty for using an inappropriately sized weapon.
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You want lots of Crit without as many penalties. Kukrui weilding or short swords will do just fine. You will get lead blades spell to make them hit as a size bigger. You also don't care about your weapon damage your worried about your bonus damage being multiplied. Favored enemy, str, magic bonuses, and group buffs. You will do fine. Ask your dm about the local feat big game hunter if he will adapt it to work in his campaign. Would help you alleviate not getting weapon specialization and weapon training. Those fighter bonuses go a long way.
IMHO, halfling make very interesting fighters and paladins. Gnomes are harder but perhaps arcane strike help them close the gap.
I personally always wanted to play a goblin gunslinger. +4 Dex on a class that adds Dex to damage? Yes please.
As neat as it sounds for Wayangs to not have a strength penalty, their penalty is to wisdom instead. Which is arguably worse for most martials than the strength penalty.
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Nope. Smalls all (except I think Wayangs) have -2 strength while medium builds will be human, half-human, or planetouched variants with +2 strength. That's a swing of -4 strength. That's -2 accuracy, -3 damage; -4 damage on monks or anyone silly enough to blow a feat on double slice. Small gets +1 to attack rolls which fails to completely offset the accuracy loss to the strength penalty. This does not count the -1 attack and damage per weapon to pay for the agile enhancement or being forced to use a single scimitar or aldori dueling sword one handed with no off-hand weapon for the Golarion specific sources of dex to damage.
Why be strength based?
Dervish Dancing goblin ftw. If goblins are disallowed, halfling can do in a pinch.
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Inapproriately sized weapons? Thats why I said small sized.I see...
So 2 small sized Sawtoothed Sabres might be a good combo for a ranger.
Why?
They already count as light weapons for the purposes of determining two-weapon fighting penalties.
I thought you meant small-sized sawtooth sabres, to be wielded by a medium PC.
Nope. Smalls all (except I think Wayangs) have -2 strength while medium builds will be human, half-human, or planetouched variants with +2 strength. That's a swing of -4 strength. That's -2 accuracy, -3 damage; -4 damage on monks or anyone silly enough to blow a feat on double slice. Small gets +1 to attack rolls which fails to completely offset the accuracy loss to the strength penalty. This does not count the -1 attack and damage per weapon to pay for the agile enhancement or being forced to use a single scimitar or aldori dueling sword one handed with no off-hand weapon for the Golarion specific sources of dex to damage.Small characters are -4 strength compared to the usual martial races, which means -1 accuracy -3 damage.They get +1 to hit from being small. and it is -2 to strength so you only loose up to -2 to damage from the strength penalty. You loose a bit more when you factor weapon size damage. But that can be fixed either with Spells (lead Blades) or by using bigger weapons. Barb Archetype Titan Mauler.
In halflings that also means +2 to Ac, +1 to all saves and a bonus to stealth. Now, a +2 to AC is like a heavy shield, a two hander halfling is probably doing more damage than a non twf shield and board human, so that is pretty even. And at later levels a couple of points in damage do not make the big diference and do not forget risky striker.