Two things:
Back in the late 80's early 90's I worked in Tower Video on W 67th Street. On the other end of the block was Tower Records. The security guys at both stores were basically one unit. So if their office was full or in use sometimes they would bring someone that they caught to our office to have their picture taken or to wait for the police.
These guys were pretty good at what they did and every now and then when I'd go over to Tower Records and hang out in the back I'd see the pictures of the people that got caught shoplifting. A lot of the faces were black and brown. But a fair amount of them were white. And not white, low income either. People who could afford to live on the upper west side (and if you know anything about NYC you know what I'm talking about. Even back then it was expensive to live there.) would be stealing. One of our security guys even pondered the fact that he was so used to looking for black and brown perps that he probably overlooked the same behavior in a white perp and missed a collar.
The other thing is that when the gun running pipeline from the carolinas started to get compromised, meaning that the cops started pulling over damn near every young black male with Carolina, NY or Jersey plates? The gun runners got smart. They started propositioning white guys or white couples or white elderly couples on fixed incomes to transport their product for them. Because no one would look twice at them. As far as I know that's still the modus operandi to this day...
As someone who lives on the NY end of the pipeline(I live right off the belt parkway) I can indeed say this is still done with regularity. Cops are having fits, and have set up checkpoints in the summer where EVERYBODY is stopped.
But if you watch those statistics and come to an obvious conclusion, you can labeled a racist
Yes, because when something becomes "obvious" many people stop thinking critically- or even thinking at all- and just go with the appeal to evidence-based authority, which, perhaps paradoxically, leads to ignorance.
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Whatever you want dude. I would bet real money you didn't go around telling your friends about how you just got Super Mario Bros 2 for your SNES. Anyway, the original comment was said toungue-in-cheek but also stands on its own merits.nope. I owned it. Forgot what it was called don't really care but thanks for the ass-umption.Yeah, but anyone who had Super Mario All-Stars would refer to it as such.Because Super Mario Bros 2 was a NES title, not an SNES title.It was released for SNES as a 4 in 1 cartridge. I had both versions :p
omfg dude it was 22 years ago f+~~in sue me!
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So here's the thing about crime, ethnicity, and poverty.
The sad, unfortunate truth is that there are still many minorities that are stuck in poverty, for whatever reason. And unfortunately, it is very difficult to get out of poverty, especially without any help. In addition, much of the judicial system is inherently harder on poor people because, well, they cannot afford as good a lawyer. Just look at the Dupont heir, or that kid that drove drunk and killed four people, and it's obvious. And sadly, because of these statistics, as well as pop culture media's depictions of minorities as gangsters, it fuels this culture where we fear any black or latin people that we come across. This also causes most judges and juries to punish minorities harder than white people. It's unfortunate that if you compare a white criminal and a black criminal that did the same crime, chances are, the black criminal probably got a worse sentence.
I think that assuming every minority is a criminal is the wrong way to do it. It's a form of racism, but born out of fear and experience. In the example of the store owner who has been robbed by black people, I wouldn't blame him for being a little more cautious. However, if he treats them differently and poorly just for being black, I feel that would be bad. I've encountered these cultural assumptions before. When I worked security and dealt with shoplifters, I could guarantee that a white shoplifter would get probation and community service, while a black shoplifter would go to prison. This was especially disheartening for the teenagers, as I know our prison system (even juvi) would destroy that kid and turn him into a criminal. I've also had people assume I was a criminal or not a citizen, despite my good English and documentation. Even had an employer refuse to hire me because he still thought I was just some wetback fresh off the car-boat from Cuba. He didn't say it to my face, but I could overhear him in the other room. These cultural assumptions help no one and only serve to keep us down.
As ethnic minorities, we cannot ignore that crime, drugs, and poverty are three things that are infecting our culture and keeping us down. We need to mentor and help pull people out of poverty, because the system isn't going to do it on their own. And personally, I would really love to see more positive minority role-models. I feel that if we move away from the "angry, black gangster" image (which is slowly happening), it would help out a great deal. I feel that the image only perpetuates a self-fulfilling prophecy. When you are told you are a criminal and treated like a criminal, eventually you'll fall into being a criminal. It's sad and terrible and I wish we could, as a society, prevent that. Things are getting better, but things still need to get better.
Here's an example I do face...
Years ago, I was beaten up by some rednecks because I was dating their cousin. Since then, I'm always cautious around white people that dress like rednecks (camoflauge, hunting hats, etc). I cannot help it, because it was a traumatic experience. However, I will never treat any white person with less courtesy than I treat other people, despite my experience. It's not fair for me to treat someone like that, because it wasn't them that hurt me.
Here's an example I do face...
Years ago, I was beaten up by some rednecks because I was dating their cousin. Since then, I'm always cautious around white people that dress like rednecks (camoflauge, hunting hats, etc). I cannot help it, because it was a traumatic experience. However, I will never treat any white person with less courtesy than I treat other people, despite my experience. It's not fair for me to treat someone like that, because it wasn't them that hurt me.
This may be the big issue in a lot of cases. How do you dress? If I see some dudes dressed like rednecks I will assume not unfairly that they are rednecks. Same with gangs. If a white boy dressed in gang fashion I may very well avoid him too. That style of dress seems to scream "looking for a fight". By the same token if I saw a black man in a business suit I would not unfairly start with the assumption that he was a businessman. There is a bit of business wisdom that says "Dress for the job you want not the one you have." It acknowledges that how you dress will affect how you are treated and if you want a leg up on the promotion dress like it's already yours. If I tossed on a skimpy party dress and some flashy accessories I could hardly fault anyone for treating me like some empty headed party girl.
PS: Although it's sometimes fun to mess with peoples heads and dress like a party girl and then attempt to discuss differential algorithms with a stranger. Or ripped jeans, leather jacket, skull earrings, and fake tattoos while attempting to discuss faith in God with a stranger.
At the same time, though, I have met people that dress sharply, but have been unrepentant, hateful sociopaths. My friend(?) always dresses well, but more and more, I'm finding out how much of a chauvinist and racist he really is. On the other side of the coin, my brother dresses like a gang member but is a fairly kind (if impulsive) individual.
Course, it gets even more complicated with American gang culture, as what a gang member wears is much like a uniform for their crew. Like with all things, it's complicated and there are no absolutes, but plenty of exceptions.
At the same time, though, I have met people that dress sharply, but have been unrepentant, hateful sociopaths. My friend(?) always dresses well, but more and more, I'm finding out how much of a chauvinist and racist he really is. On the other side of the coin, my brother dresses like a gang member but is a fairly kind (if impulsive) individual.
Course, it gets even more complicated with American gang culture, as what a gang member wears is much like a uniform for their crew. Like with all things, it's complicated and there are no absolutes, but plenty of exceptions.
That first type is the guy I am truly afraid of. He looks and acts respectable so you trust him... then when he has you alone he does something horrible. And you can't even tell people because who would believe such a nice boy would do such a thing. So you avoid him and get blamed for being anti-social. He knows how to game the system and get away with anything. The other kid I feel sorry for... he may be trapped trying to look like others in his neighborhood to blend in and escape notice while having to deal with others treating him like a gang person.
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At the same time, though, I have met people that dress sharply, but have been unrepentant, hateful sociopaths. My friend(?) always dresses well, but more and more, I'm finding out how much of a chauvinist and racist he really is. On the other side of the coin, my brother dresses like a gang member but is a fairly kind (if impulsive) individual.
Course, it gets even more complicated with American gang culture, as what a gang member wears is much like a uniform for their crew. Like with all things, it's complicated and there are no absolutes, but plenty of exceptions.
That first type is the guy I am truly afraid of. He looks and acts respectable so you trust him... then when he has you alone he does something horrible. And you can't even tell people because who would believe such a nice boy would do such a thing. So you avoid him and get blamed for being anti-social. He knows how to game the system and get away with anything. The other kid I feel sorry for... he may be trapped trying to look like others in his neighborhood to blend in and escape notice while having to deal with others treating him like a gang person.
Basic rule of camoflague: dress in camo and they think you have a gun.
So here's the thing about crime, ethnicity, and poverty.
The sad, unfortunate truth is that there are still many minorities that are stuck in poverty, for whatever reason. And unfortunately, it is very difficult to get out of poverty, especially without any help. In addition, much of the judicial system is inherently harder on poor people because, well, they cannot afford as good a lawyer. Just look at the Dupont heir, or that kid that drove drunk and killed four people, and it's obvious. And sadly, because of these statistics, as well as pop culture media's depictions of minorities as gangsters, it fuels this culture where we fear any black or latin people that we come across. This also causes most judges and juries to punish minorities harder than white people. It's unfortunate that if you compare a white criminal and a black criminal that did the same crime, chances are, the black criminal probably got a worse sentence.
I think that assuming every minority is a criminal is the wrong way to do it. It's a form of racism, but born out of fear and experience. In the example of the store owner who has been robbed by black people, I wouldn't blame him for being a little more cautious. However, if he treats them differently and poorly just for being black, I feel that would be bad. I've encountered these cultural assumptions before. When I worked security and dealt with shoplifters, I could guarantee that a white shoplifter would get probation and community service, while a black shoplifter would go to prison. This was especially disheartening for the teenagers, as I know our prison system (even juvi) would destroy that kid and turn him into a criminal. I've also had people assume I was a criminal or not a citizen, despite my good English and documentation. Even had an employer refuse to hire me because he still thought I was just some wetback fresh off the car-boat from Cuba. He didn't say it to my face, but I could overhear him in the other room. These cultural assumptions help no one and only serve to...
Yeah, absolutely. In the city I am in now, we have a lot of migrant families. I think it is a really great thing to tutor and mentor the kids from those families, and help to keep them stay on the straight and narrow. There are so many pitfalls and problems (and I know how bad it can be for blacks) that keeping their grades up and keeping learning as their focus and helping them not fall to drugs or thug culture really feels like time well spent.
We b&#!+ about school to beef camaraderie, but life lessons and how to game the school system is also a part of it.
Some I have tutored have even expressed an interest in D&D and pathfinder. :)
Alas my lessons can't be games.
DM Under the bridge are you Australian and if so what small town did you grow up in?
I have never met an African American in real space. I have met and worked with British Africans, and Africans (both white and black).
I work with a Californian and a Filipino Texan, lots of fun on thanks giving because they cook American food.
My team at work is 3 "Anglo Australians" 1 Hindi speaking Indian, 2 Tamil speaking Indians, 1 Sri Lankan, 1 Sikh, the above mentioned North Americans, 1 Colombian Australian, 1 Jordanian, 1 Indonesian Austalian, 1 Malay Indian and a Norwegian. The project owner is Vietnamese Australian and the project manager is Afgan Australian.
From what I heard and read (which might or might not be accurate, though) about negative approach to black people in East Asia it supposedly works like this: important part of East Asian cultures - Chinese, Korean, Japanese, probably Vietnamese as well, is conformity to local standards, including physical appearance. Exotic appearance is more often perceived negatively than in European/American cultures. While white people look differently than easterners, they are still closer to East Asians standards of appearance than black people and thus perceived as more attractive (or at least less "ugly") than the former.The black people (men) are bad thing is pretty much universal. The impression is gotten through popular media I think.I live in China...I'm white (but not white enough...damn Arab blood line) and find the racism and color thing strange here...
...in particular, black Americans have trouble getting hired to be English teachers because they are, "too ugly." Yet Russian Women who speak with heavy accents can get jobs (they get paid badly) as English teachers.
-Personally I don't understand where the black people are bad thing comes from, when you consider China has little if any interaction with Africans until modern times.
It might also be that pale=attractive and tan=ugly to the Chinese, as I understand it. When they go to the beach, for example, the Chinese (and I admit that I'm generalizing here as my experience is limited to learning Chinese and some of the culture in America) do everything they can to avoid getting at all tan.
On a different note, I spent two years in South Africa as a missionary, where I mostly worked in the black townships (a relic of the Apartheid), where I was very definitely a minority when it came to skin color, and I never felt like I was being treated as 'out-of-place' by the people around me. Unless you count the belief that American=rich.
The funniest thing was when people would ask me if I knew celebrities because we're both from America. :P
Not to mention the idea that the "problematic racist imagery" in video games is't "politics", but objecting to it is.
How does that make any sense?
I just looked at a recent post of his which was why deleted my initial response. Sorry to leave you hanging like that...
omfg dude it was 22 years ago f%#!in sue me!Whatever you want dude. I would bet real money you didn't go around telling your friends about how you just got Super Mario Bros 2 for your SNES. Anyway, the original comment was said toungue-in-cheek but also stands on its own merits.nope. I owned it. Forgot what it was called don't really care but thanks for the ass-umption.Yeah, but anyone who had Super Mario All-Stars would refer to it as such.Because Super Mario Bros 2 was a NES title, not an SNES title.It was released for SNES as a 4 in 1 cartridge. I had both versions :p
Dude, we're NERDS (black nerds!). We're supposed to note things like that.
Oh. Well I'm white. Almost as white as they come, auburn hair and freckles I got a shamrock on my shoulder too. I grew up middle class in a district that had one black family and one Asian family maybe one Latin family and racism seemed lightish as this is northern new England not say Alabama. But yeah, I am usually good with details but do forget sometimes.
Lol. Thread moved to no mans land. Bust out a headstone I bet this spells the end is near.
When was this thread not in gamer talk?
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I think American gang culture is so strange, yet all people that i talked accept it as a normal fact of life. Brazilian have a lot of gangs, but people who became gangsters are just trying to not be poor. They don't feel that they are betraying their races or their communities. It's like the pression to became a gangster is too strong, a outsider like me has a really hardtime trying to understand.
The concept of talking white is a lot weird to me. Both english and spanish are european languages, is talking with redneck accent considered talking white too ? Here in Brazil there is a lot of preconceptions against regional accent too (only upside down, the northern accent is the uncultured one and southern is the rich and cultured one), but racial accents are unconcievable. "Blacks" and "Browns" who wish to keep to their cultures talk into their native languages like Yorubá or Túpi-Guarani, but most people can't understand they anyway, and no one think it's wrong for african-brazilians to not know any african language or oriental-brazilians to not know any asian ones.
For a long time i thought there were only white nerds in USA. Non-white nerds were never show in movies or tv. Even photos from Gen Con or Paizo Con never showed one until i saw some last year. My spoken english is heavyly accented (the school were i learnt english taught a united knigdom accent, so my accent is very ...unique), and i heard that americans treat badly south americans with deep accent beside what i already expected because i am not white. So my fear of going to a CON even being a Venture Captain.
Non-white nerds were never show in movies or tv.
What about Steve Urkel?
Does Robin Givens' character in "Head of the Class" count, or was she not nerdy enough?
There was a black character and an Asian one in "Revenge of the Nerds".
I'm not well versed in movies or TV compared to most people, I think, but I'm sure there must be plenty of others.
Non-white nerds were never show in movies or tv.What about Steve Urkel?
Does Robin Givens' character in "Head of the Class" count, or was she not nerdy enough?
There was a black character and an Asian one in "Revenge of the Nerds".
I'm not well versed in movies or TV compared to most people, I think, but I'm sure there must be plenty of others.
As a white nerd, I found Steve Urkel to be an insulting caricature. I can only guess at how much more insulting he would be to a person of color.
Geordi Laforge would be a much better example. He even got enough screen time to be a real character.
I think American gang culture is so strange, yet all people that i talked accept it as a normal fact of life. Brazilian have a lot of gangs, but people who became gangsters are just trying to not be poor. They don't feel that they are betraying their races or their communities. It's like the pression to became a gangster is too strong, a outsider like me has a really hardtime trying to understand.
The concept of talking white is a lot weird to me. Both english and spanish are european languages, is talking with redneck accent considered talking white too ? Here in Brazil there is a lot of preconceptions against regional accent too (only upside down, the northern accent is the uncultured one and southern is the rich and cultured one), but racial accents are unconcievable. "Blacks" and "Browns" who wish to keep to their cultures talk into their native languages like Yorubá or Túpi-Guarani, but most people can't understand they anyway, and no one think it's wrong for african-brazilians to not know any african language or oriental-brazilians to not know any asian ones.
For a long time i thought there were only white nerds in USA. Non-white nerds were never show in movies or tv. Even photos from Gen Con or Paizo Con never showed one until i saw some last year. My spoken english is heavyly accented (the school were i learnt english taught a united knigdom accent, so my accent is very ...unique), and i heard that americans treat badly south americans with deep accent beside what i already expected because i am not white. So my fear of going to a CON even being a Venture Captain.
Go to a con man. If you can tell me which con you're going to be at, I'll see if I can go too, and we'll game together.
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Non-white nerds were never show in movies or tv.What about Steve Urkel?
Does Robin Givens' character in "Head of the Class" count, or was she not nerdy enough?
There was a black character and an Asian one in "Revenge of the Nerds".
I'm not well versed in movies or TV compared to most people, I think, but I'm sure there must be plenty of others.
There are no words to describe how offensive urkel became over time. He started out as just a weirdo, but became the poster child for black and smart not going together. Disney tried to clean him up a bit in the middle and a LOT towards the end, but by that time the damage had already been done. The black character in revenge of the nerds is a jaw-droppingly offensive stereotype of a gay man that was acceptable during the time period the movie was made, perhaps, but certainly not today. The asian character was a horid stereotype of another culture. And Robin Givens is Robin Givens. She's an actress.
I feel as if nerd culture is somewhat inclined to be racially-inclusive: that the pressure against being a minority nerd is coming from non-nerd members of your minority, rather than from the nerds. I think the OP article corroborates that impression; what do you think?
This is a observation that has been made elsewhere. For example, the "Portrait of J. Random Hacker" (part of the Jargon File, a list of "hacker" (computer nerd) terms) includes the following:
Hackerdom is still predominantly male. However, the percentage of women is clearly higher than the low-single-digit range typical for technical professions, and female hackers are generally respected and dealt with as equals.In the U.S., hackerdom is predominantly Caucasian with strong minorities of Jews (East Coast) and Orientals (West Coast). The Jewish contingent has exerted a particularly pervasive cultural influence (see Food, above, and note that several common jargon terms are obviously mutated Yiddish).
The ethnic distribution of hackers is understood by them to be a function of which ethnic groups tend to seek and value education. Racial and ethnic prejudice is notably uncommon and tends to be met with freezing contempt.
When asked, hackers often ascribe their culture's gender- and color-blindness to a positive effect of text-only network channels, and this is doubtless a powerful influence. Also, the ties many hackers have to AI research and SF literature may have helped them to develop an idea of personhood that is inclusive rather than exclusive — after all, if one's imagination readily grants full human rights to future AI programs, robots, dolphins, and extraterrestrial aliens, mere color and gender can't seem very important any more.
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Non-white nerds were never show in movies or tv.What about Steve Urkel?
Does Robin Givens' character in "Head of the Class" count, or was she not nerdy enough?
There was a black character and an Asian one in "Revenge of the Nerds".
I'm not well versed in movies or TV compared to most people, I think, but I'm sure there must be plenty of others.
Pehaps i should have said "american movies and TV that were brought to Brazil", never heard about Steve Urkel before.
I feel as if nerd culture is somewhat inclined to be racially-inclusive: that the pressure against being a minority nerd is coming from non-nerd members of your minority, rather than from the nerds. I think the OP article corroborates that impression; what do you think?
I feel that nerd culture is inclusive as long as you dont talk about inclusivity and lack of representation.
Once you do then you get to see how "inclusive" nerd culture actually is.
Edit: I'm just going to say that I tend to find like minded nerds to talk about the stuff that I enjoy and stay away from a-Holes in general. So my personal sphere of nerds are pretty much made of good people.
But if past experience and on-line forum are any indication of the wide world of nerds out there in the world? There's more than enough of them that ARENT inclusive.
Got to watch those statistics. It is of course possible that's true in your area, I don't know. However "young black man == criminal" is a common assumption in areas where it's not so true as well, which makes me suspicious.
It's also possible for example that most crimes in an area are committed by young males and most young males in the area are black, which means that most crimes are committed by young black males, even though an individual young white male is equally likely to commit a crime.
Watching the black males more closely also results in more of them being caught, which skews the statistics and reinforces the prejudice.
Uniform Crime Reports, FBI - statistics by arrest of offender
National Crime Victimization Survey - statistics as reported by victims
The UCR (arrested) and NCVS (reported by victims) numbers line up quite well. The NCVS captures what we call the "dark figure of crime," which would more accurately be called "crime unreported to police". The bolded theory holds very little water with criminologists (citation: my Master's degree in the field) after 1980. They've stopped arguing as to disproportionate criminal activity by race is the result of biased policing and a racist criminal justice system (it is almost universally agreed upon that it is not, at least at the point of arrest), and moved onwards to the question of 'why is this the case and what can we do to change this?'.
***applies on aggregate level
RPG Superstar 2013 Top 16
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It's okay to critique the culture, and the media that reflects and shapes it. I didn't mean the question rhetorically--I was actually wondering whether my observation aligned with your experiences, i.e., how valid it was or wasn't.
I think some of the defensiveness stems from nerds' (and as a self-avowed nerd married to a self-avowed nerd, I do not use the term as a pejorative) proclivity toward fandom. The defining thing about being a nerd is that we really like what we like. And we identify with it. So when some thing that we like is criticized, we might internalize that criticism to ourselves. Ironically, the same problem brought up in the OP article, that the author wanted more characters with whom he can identify, is also the reason others get defensive about inclusivity. But asking for more inclusivity isn't an attack on people who are already well-represented.
Got to watch those statistics. It is of course possible that's true in your area, I don't know. However "young black man == criminal" is a common assumption in areas where it's not so true as well, which makes me suspicious.
It's also possible for example that most crimes in an area are committed by young males and most young males in the area are black, which means that most crimes are committed by young black males, even though an individual young white male is equally likely to commit a crime.
Watching the black males more closely also results in more of them being caught, which skews the statistics and reinforces the prejudice.
Uniform Crime Reports, FBI - statistics by arrest of offender
National Crime Victimization Survey - statistics as reported by victims
The UCR (arrested) and NCVS (reported by victims) numbers line up quite well. The NCVS captures what we call the "dark figure of crime," which would more accurately be called "crime unreported to police". The bolded theory holds very little water with criminologists (citation: my Master's degree in the field) after 1980. They've stopped arguing as to disproportionate criminal activity by race is the result of biased policing and a racist criminal justice system (it is almost universally agreed upon that it is not, at least at the point of arrest), and moved onwards to the question of 'why is this the case and what can we do to change this?'.
***applies on aggregate level
When you've got a bunch of people in a field or discipline judging their own work, you're going to get glowing reviews by a gargantuan margin every time.
I think American gang culture is so strange, yet all people that i talked accept it as a normal fact of life. Brazilian have a lot of gangs, but people who became gangsters are just trying to not be poor. They don't feel that they are betraying their races or their communities. It's like the pression to became a gangster is too strong, a outsider like me has a really hardtime trying to understand.
The concept of talking white is a lot weird to me. Both english and spanish are european languages, is talking with redneck accent considered talking white too ? Here in Brazil there is a lot of preconceptions against regional accent too (only upside down, the northern accent is the uncultured one and southern is the rich and cultured one), but racial accents are unconcievable. "Blacks" and "Browns" who wish to keep to their cultures talk into their native languages like Yorubá or Túpi-Guarani, but most people can't understand they anyway, and no one think it's wrong for african-brazilians to not know any african language or oriental-brazilians to not know any asian ones.
For a long time i thought there were only white nerds in USA. Non-white nerds were never show in movies or tv. Even photos from Gen Con or Paizo Con never showed one until i saw some last year. My spoken english is heavyly accented (the school were i learnt english taught a united knigdom accent, so my accent is very ...unique), and i heard that americans treat badly south americans with deep accent beside what i already expected because i am not white. So my fear of going to a CON even being a Venture Captain.
Well, in the US, many gangsters are still people trying to break out of poverty and poor treatment. It's just that the media tends to glorify that type of culture, and many gang members actively look to younger and younger people in poverty for recruitment. It's sad really.
However, I wouldn't be afraid of visiting America or going to a con, honestly. In my experience, for every one hostile racist I come across, there are 10 or 20 people that will treat you well. I notice more of the older generation tends to have the racists and anti-foreigner sentiment, but again, you should be fine. Where I live, we have several Brazilian students that live here and love it here. I think the dangers of a nation gets really overblown to foreigners. It probably stems from a negative action that happens to someone, and negative actions tend to make a much more lasting impression than positive ones. For example, I always heard terrible stories about being Hispanic and going to Spain. My grandfather always warned me that they hate Hispanics and there is a lot of violence against them, especially in Northern Spain. When I had the chance to meet people from Spain and visit it, however, I found they were kind people that treated me well and I instantly fell in love with the country. I think only one person was actively hostile towards me, but he was an older man that no one really liked.
When you've got a bunch of people in a field or discipline judging their own work, you're going to get glowing reviews by a gargantuan margin every time.
Criminology is a field largely dominated by liberals who are quite critical of law enforcement. It is the furthest thing I can imagine from a favorable audience for law enforcement. But even they recognize that the victim-reported and police-reported number breakdowns correlate quite closely. Even my far-left instructors who were otherwise wildly suspicious of police made that admission.
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Well, in the US, many gangsters are still people trying to break out of poverty and poor treatment. It's just that the media tends to glorify that type of culture, and many gang members actively look to younger and younger people in poverty for recruitment. It's sad really.
Yeah, but there is something beyond that. People who had opportunity, who weren't poor and weren't recruited and still feel they should be gangsters. I know that its not a racial issue because there is no such feeling in Brazil. Here gangster fashion is very different from actual gangsters. Police often confuse gangster-like people, but no one believe them as dangerous. The actual criminals are people who are psychotic or too uneducated to care. The drug industries are proably the same, but no one is proud of belonging to anything.
However, I wouldn't be afraid of visiting America or going to a con, honestly. In my experience, for every one hostile racist I come across, there are 10 or 20 people that will treat you well. I notice more of the older generation tends to have the racists and anti-foreigner sentiment, but again, you should be fine. Where I live, we have several Brazilian students that live here and love it here. I think the dangers of a nation gets really overblown to foreigners. It probably stems from a negative action that happens to someone, and negative actions tend to make a much more lasting impression than positive ones. For example, I always heard terrible stories about being Hispanic and going to Spain. My grandfather always warned me that they hate Hispanics and there is a lot of violence against them, especially in Northern Spain. When I had the chance to meet people from Spain and visit it, however, I found they were kind people that treated me well and I instantly fell in love with the country. I think only one person was actively hostile towards me, but he was an older man that no one really liked.
We feel that Spain don't like us too. Proabily because we sided with Portugal. I want to go someday, i am already convinced that i can safely land in USA. I just very slow at getting a passport.
When you've got a bunch of people in a field or discipline judging their own work, you're going to get glowing reviews by a gargantuan margin every time.Criminology is a field largely dominated by liberals who are quite critical of law enforcement. It is the furthest thing I can imagine from a favorable audience for law enforcement. But even they recognize that the victim-reported and police-reported number breakdowns correlate quite closely. Even my far-left instructors who were otherwise wildly suspicious of police made that admission.
You'll understand if I don't take you at your word at that, officer.
For a certain type of crime, if the police has roughly as many reports as people in surveys say they have been subjected to such crimes, the only difference will be those who have been subjected to such crimes and not told the police about it but do tell the surveymen about it. The police claim this is a correct estimate of the dark figure - i.e. They assume that nobody would lie in a survey, because a lower dark figure means they do a better job. In reality, though, there are hundreds of factors that always twist the results of surveys, and in particular the big surveys tend to be badly done. The dark figure is, using the correct terminology, the number of crimes happening that you don't learn about AT ALL, not something you can measure. What you can do is educate and make visible, focus efforts and so on- and then, if more crimes do get reported and you have no reason to suspect a growing number of real cases, you can claim that you now have a lower dark figure.
Or, you can do like in Sweden, where the criteria for rape were sharply redefined to include more cases of sexual crimes. To nobody's surprise, the number of rapes increased correspondingly. Which got certain elements screaming loudly about how the patriarchy punished women by enacting more rape.
You'll understand if I don't take you at your word at that, officer.When you've got a bunch of people in a field or discipline judging their own work, you're going to get glowing reviews by a gargantuan margin every time.Criminology is a field largely dominated by liberals who are quite critical of law enforcement. It is the furthest thing I can imagine from a favorable audience for law enforcement. But even they recognize that the victim-reported and police-reported number breakdowns correlate quite closely. Even my far-left instructors who were otherwise wildly suspicious of police made that admission.
Or even if you could take his word at it, his argument is predicated on the fact that because the criminologists are left leaning liberals that they must be correct or that we'd be more inclined to believe or trust them. Which isn't necessarily true.
And personal experience with the police has shown that while sometimes they ARE justified in some of their actions (And this is coming from someone who really, really doesn't TRUST law enforcement officials at all) for the most part when it comes to people of color they have Carte Blanche to abuse their badge. Mostly because of statistics and the general populace who believe that we're a race of criminally inclined, no impulse control having fiends anyway.
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Is it okay if this Melaninally Challenged Nerd brings up the phrase "Driving While Black"? Because having been in the car more than once with one of my black friends/cousins/associates, and having seen the way the cops and security guards in their neighborhoods (or business parks, or wherever) have treated them vs me when driving, I can say via observational evidence that it's a thing.
My buddy lives in a gated neighborhood with a guard at the gate. He is the resident. I am not.
Nice car, nice neighborhood, white guy driving? No one bats an eye. We get waved through.
Same car, same neighborhood, black guy driving? Until they changed the security company (due to complaints!) we got stopped at the gate. Every time.
I have an entire branch of my family who are from Liberia (Great Uncle spent 30 years in the Peace Corps, married a Liberian, had children and grand children and great grandchildren, was a Liberian Citizen, still got evac'ed when the civil war broke out). When some of them were visiting a few years back, I took them out for some driving on our highways. Took them to places I usually go. While I was driving, no one batted an eye. When I let my cousin take the wheel and we stopped at the same 7-11 we had been at not an hour before he got asked if he owned the car and if he could prove he had a license to drive in this country by a police officer. Never mind permissive driver clauses. Never mind his international license. Black guy. Nice car.
At its best, this is the Appeal To Probability and Ecological fallacies in action. At it's worst, it's a systematic, ingrained, and deeply damaged social psychology that enables and legitimizes this kind of racism and behavior.
On the topic of being Black and Nerdy (someone get some old school hip hoppers like Run DMC on that lyric, stat), though, I see the same thing at conventions all the time. Tabletop roleplaying games are pretty much a Middle Class White Guy's hobby. I wish it weren't true, but it is. I see black gamers at tables, I start watching to see how many of the white players are guarding their dice, guarding their books. And I call them out on it. They apologize. The black gamers brush it off. "It's cool, man," they say, "Let's game."
And almost always, when the game is over, if that black gamer sees me later, he or she thanks me for what I did, or at least says "I'm glad someone gets it," because like it or not the Middle Class White Boys at the table were all subconsciously thinking "Man, I better watch my stuff with him around."
We need to be better than that.
And frankly, I think folks need to stop pretending that racism in our hobby doesn't exist, and start talking about how we're working to eradicate it.
/endrant
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#mynypd makes me laugh.
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Is it okay if this Melaninally Challenged Nerd brings up the phrase "Driving While Black"? Because having been in the car more than once with one of my black friends/cousins/associates, and having seen the way the cops and security guards in their neighborhoods (or business parks, or wherever) have treated them vs me when driving, I can say via observational evidence that it's a thing.
My buddy lives in a gated neighborhood with a guard at the gate. He is the resident. I am not.
Nice car, nice neighborhood, white guy driving? No one bats an eye. We get waved through.
Same car, same neighborhood, black guy driving? Until they changed the security company (due to complaints!) we got stopped at the gate. Every time.
I have an entire branch of my family who are from Liberia (Great Uncle spent 30 years in the Peace Corps, married a Liberian, had children and grand children and great grandchildren, was a Liberian Citizen, still got evac'ed when the civil war broke out). When some of them were visiting a few years back, I took them out for some driving on our highways. Took them to places I usually go. While I was driving, no one batted an eye. When I let my cousin take the wheel and we stopped at the same 7-11 we had been at not an hour before he got asked if he owned the car and if he could prove he had a license to drive in this country by a police officer. Never mind permissive driver clauses. Never mind his international license. Black guy. Nice car.
At its best, this is the Appeal To Probability and Ecological fallacies in action. At it's worst, it's a systematic, ingrained, and deeply damaged social psychology that enables and legitimizes this kind of racism and behavior.
On the topic of being Black and Nerdy (someone get some old school hip hoppers like Run DMC on that lyric, stat), though, I see the same thing at conventions all the time. Tabletop roleplaying games are pretty much a Middle Class White Guy's hobby. I wish it weren't true, but it is. I see black gamers at tables, I...
you gotta be s%$&ting me.
Now I need to be careful because white gamers think im going to steal their DICE AND BOOKS?!?!
That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard. Literally. Ever. The freaking MILK thing makes more sense.
Now I need to get shin and oderaude and I into a low rider and drive slowly around conventions intimidating players into parting with their dice and books. At least I have an opportunity to wear my gold tooth with the d20 shape on it.
you gotta be s!*%ting me.
Now I need to be careful because white gamers think im going to steal their DICE AND BOOKS?!?!
That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard. Literally. Ever. The freaking MILK thing makes more sense.
Now I need to get shin and oderaude and I into a low rider and drive slowly around conventions intimidating players into parting with their dice and books. At least I have an opportunity to wear my gold tooth with the d20 shape on it.
I wish I was kidding. I really truly wish I was.
Now, granted, most of the game conventions around where I live take place in Oakland or San Ramon or other locations where there is a "large urban youth contingent" - and let's face it, Oakland has a reputation for being "dangerous" (even though statistically it has been rapidly declining for decades) - so I could *maybe* see it with people who are from out of the area or unfamiliar with the fact that most crime at conventions is done by those same Middle Class White Nerds that make up the bulk of the hobby... But the fact is I do see it, and I do call it out, and it does happen.
I've never been to a GenCon or any of the Real Big Game Cons (tm), so I can't say that it happens there.
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Personally I don't understand where the black people are bad thing comes from, when you consider China has little if any interaction with Africans until modern times.
Probably from American films, and news reports on American big cities like New York and Detroit.
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you gotta be s+++ting me.
Now I need to be careful because white gamers think im going to steal their DICE AND BOOKS?!?!
That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard. Literally. Ever. The freaking MILK thing makes more sense.
Now I need to get shin and oderaude and I into a low rider and drive slowly around conventions intimidating players into parting with their dice and books. At least I have an opportunity to wear my gold tooth with the d20 shape on it.
Dont forget the twin gold d4's dangling from the rear view mirror...
Now I need to be careful because white gamers think im going to steal their DICE AND BOOKS?!?!
That does not surprise me, I'm actually surprised that it surprises you. Look in a comment section for any news story about welfare, food stamps, affirmative action, or race in general and you will see some incredibly hateful language.
There are still a lot of people out there that have deeply-held racist views. And they pass these views down to their kids, though they don't stick as much.
Only thing that will fix it is time. Different amounts of time for different parts of the country as well.
It's not just "passed down to kids", it's also reinforced in the media and the rest of the culture. Including, spinning this back to the original article, the use of blacks mostly as thugs in video games.
Right, but why do you think the media reinforces these images? I would argue its because the decision makers had a lot of these thoughts passed down from their parents.
And then think about these gamers, who don't even realize they're guarding their dice, working in HR departments interviewing people and just not thinking the black guy will be quite as good a fit as the white guy.
I think its a lot more conscious then that. I don't think they don't realize they're guarding their dice, they're doing it intentionally. If their behavior is pointed out to them, they may become embarrassed, but its not because they didn't realize they were doing it. Its because the spotlight that been put on their actions.
As far as being in a HR department, yes "black-sounding" names are definitely discriminated against, as are Muslim-sounding names. Any name that isn't a common Anglo-Saxon name is going to have a higher chance of being discriminated against.
Are these people in these HR departments unaware that they've just discriminated? No, they're completely aware. They just think it is justified.