Blood transcription used on a Dragon


Advice


Hey!

I'm the DM, and a Magus PC bottled up a pint of Dragon blood, and chugged it at the local tavern after casting Spell Transcription. Dragon's can cast spells, but does this make them "Spellcasters" as per the definition?

I've allowed him to have the spell strike spell out of it, which he has written down to add to his book.

Is this in error? Or can he score spells from anything that has at least a pint of blood and the ability to cast something?

Bonus Question:

Should the Paladin be upset the Magus is drinking his enemies blood?


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As long as the spells were from an older dragon's sorcerer-esque spellcasting rather than some spell-like abilities, I'd say it's legit.

SRD wrote:
A dragon knows and casts arcane spells as a sorcerer.

The ability to "cast arcane spells" makes the dragon a legitimate spellcaster. So Chug! Chug! Chug!

Bonus Question: Is the Paladin a strict vegetarian? If not, does he equate consuming other sentient beings' remains as a form of canibalism? If yes to the latter, did the paladin's player establish those as his character's beliefs beforehand or did he just invent that ethical dilemma on the spot so that he could mess with the Magus' player?


Its my understanding that Dragons get and use their spells similar to a sorcerer. So yes he would be able to learn spells from a dragons blood. As for other monsters it depends. If it is spells known then yes he can learn it from blood transcription, if it is spell-like abilities or something similar then no(even if the SLA is a normal spell).

Scarab Sages

Mulet wrote:


Bonus Question:

Should the Paladin be upset the Magus is drinking his enemies blood?

Blood Transcription is a spell with the [Evil] descriptor, so if the Paladin knows what's going on, they should be a bit upset about it yes.

They would probably try to talk the Magus out of using the spell and get him to learn spells in a less evil fashion. But not upset enough to stop traveling with the Magus or engage in PvP.


Imbicatus wrote:
Blood Transcription is a spell with the [Evil] descriptor, so if the Paladin knows what's going on, they should be a bit upset about it yes.

Good (heh heh) point. But I'd only allow the Paladin to make that call if he successfully used Spellcraft to identify the spell's evil nature first. Otherwise he's just inventing reasons to object.


The Paladin is a hunter, and the PC controlling him, opposes Vegetarianism. It was an evil dragon anyway, and each player took either a scale, some skin or some other token from it. Bunch of pack rats. :)

I've got a list of DM errors, which includes stuff like forgetting to make the magic users do concentration checks, light effects etc... I'll add alignment check to it, so the Paladin has the opportunity to start some drama.


Mulet wrote:
The Paladin is a hunter, and the PC controlling him, opposes Vegetarianism. It was an evil dragon anyway, and each player took either a scale, some skin or some other token from it. Bunch of pack rats. :)

In that case, were I the Magus, I'd be pretty dubious about my meat-eating, trophy-collecting, dragon-hunting buddy's objections.

Mulet wrote:
I'll add alignment check to it, so the Paladin has the opportunity to start some drama.

What's an alignment check?


Wow. Think how many pints of blood a dragon has.....

Scarab Sages

Although, how did the caster cast the spell in a tavern? It has a range of touch and the target is one dead spellcaster. That seems to indicate you would need access to the body to cast the spell and drink the blood directly from the tap as it were.


Imbicatus wrote:
Although, how did the caster cast the spell in a tavern? It has a range of touch and the target is one dead spellcaster. That seems to indicate you would need access to the body to cast the spell and drink the blood directly from the tap as it were.

It's a common houserule/interpretation that you can just take the blood and cast the spell on that, rather than lug the body along with you.


Samasboy1 wrote:
Wow. Think how many pints of blood a dragon has.....

Yeah, but it's only good for 24 hours, so I sure hope you're thirsty. I can't imagine what the bathroom breaks that day must be like...

Imbicatus wrote:
Although, how did the caster cast the spell in a tavern? It has a range of touch and the target is one dead spellcaster. That seems to indicate you would need access to the body to cast the spell and drink the blood directly from the tap as it were.

The OP did mention that the whole group pilfered some trophies from the carcass. Maybe they're carting enough of it around for the spell to work. :P Edit: Ninja'ed!


thejeff wrote:
Imbicatus wrote:
Although, how did the caster cast the spell in a tavern? It has a range of touch and the target is one dead spellcaster. That seems to indicate you would need access to the body to cast the spell and drink the blood directly from the tap as it were.
It's a common houserule/interpretation that you can just take the blood and cast the spell on that, rather than lug the body along with you.

Doesn't everybody do that with dragons? I mean, given how much their bodies are worth (dragon bone for weapons, dragon scale for armour, the eyes are probably useful as spell components or something, the blood is good for a blood transcription, and so on), it's a wonder that adventuring parties don't carry some meat cleavers from a butchery for after the fight is over.


Ambrus wrote:
Yeah, but it's only good for 24 hours, so I sure hope you're thirsty. I can't imagine what the bathroom breaks that day must be like...

Forget the Gallon Challenge, take the Dragon Challenge!!

Well, a horse has approx. 105 pints of blood and is size Large. It doesn't look like any True Dragon is smaller than Large when they acquire spellcasting, so you will have at least 105 pints in any spellcasting dragon (and probably a lot more).

But even a Great Wyrm Gold Dragon only knows 43 spells total (0-9). From there you can deduct any spells you already know, are too high in level, and any spells not on your class list (not all Wiz/Sorc spells are on the Witch/Magus lists, and any possible Cleric spells the dragon knows).

So you have at least 105 pints of blood, but only need a max of 43. You can cast Blood Transcription 43 times (carry a wand) in just over 4 minutes.

How do you drink 43 pints of blood (about 5 1/2 gallons)? You don't. I suggest casting the spell and drinking the blood, say, 3-4 times, then inducing vomiting to "free some space," then repeat. It will be painful and messy, but you should be dedicated in your pursuit of power.

Lets add...20 minutes to cover all the regurgitating. That puts us 24 minutes into our 24 hour window. Now, we know these spells for 24 hours.

It takes hours=spell level to write the spell (or teach familiar). So we can learn basically 23 levels of spells.

Going back to our Great Wyrm Gold Dragon, he knows 148 levels of spells. No where near close to enough. Of course, we will likely have less spells (already known, too high level, not on list, younger than great wyrm dragon).

We can also effectively double the number of spells we can learn by casting the Blood Transcription, scribing spells for 23 hours, then casting it again just before the 24 hour after death limit is reached to learn more spells, and having another 24 hours to scribe them.

That increases the number of spell levels we can learn to 47. Look something like....

Kill dragon (0 hours after death)
Cast Blood Transcription 3 times (20 secs after death)
Select 2 9th level spells and 1 5th level spell
Scribe all three spells (23 hours, so 23 hours 20 seconds after death)
Cast Blood Transcription 4 times (23 hours 45 seconds after death)
Select 3 8th level spells
24 hours after death expires, target no longer valid for Blood Transcription BUT you keep spells from second casting for 24 hours
Scribe all three spells (47 hours 45 seconds after death)

You have enough time to get multiple lower level spells instead of the highest if you want, as the only change will be number of castings (and possible the need to vomit).


It seems that if I were to take from Mythic Magic, he would be forced to take Damage from the red dragon's blood (1D6) multiplied by it being internal damage (x4).

http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/mythicAdventures/mythicMonsters.html#_dr agon-blood


Ambrus wrote:
Mulet wrote:
The Paladin is a hunter, and the PC controlling him, opposes Vegetarianism. It was an evil dragon anyway, and each player took either a scale, some skin or some other token from it. Bunch of pack rats. :)

In that case, were I the Magus, I'd be pretty dubious about my meat-eating, trophy-collecting, dragon-hunting buddy's objections.

Mulet wrote:
I'll add alignment check to it, so the Paladin has the opportunity to start some drama.
What's an alignment check?

The PC I am asking about, is one of those players that does not technically cheat. If I as a DM do not make him take the concentration check with every spell cast, he will automatically succeed. All his rolled characters, tend to wind up with a lot of maxed attributes and he refuses to use an in-character voice to avoid mis-speaking and winding up in trouble. He also use flare on this dragon to probe it's stats, which is completely meta.

He's great to play with, but he's very cheeky. By "Allignment Check" I mean that I will remind him to read out the alignment of his spells when they are cast. Our Paladin has never played a Magic user, so he will never pickup an evil spell just by hearing the words "Blood Transcription", and I want to give him the opportunity to start some drama over it.

I'm trying to encourage depth, and good roleplay.


The Dragon Blood rule only applies if the Dragon was actually Mythic, nor is there any multiplication rule for ingesting it.

The Paladin wouldn't know IC that the spell is [Evil] unless he a)used Detect Evil while it was being cast or b)used Spellcraft to identify the spell. The paladin's player hearing OOC that the spell is evil doesn't give the paladin any info whatsoever IC.

Dark Archive

Samasboy1 wrote:

The Dragon Blood rule only applies if the Dragon was actually Mythic, nor is there any multiplication rule for ingesting it.

The Paladin wouldn't know IC that the spell is [Evil] unless he a)used Detect Evil while it was being cast or b)used Spellcraft to identify the spell. The paladin's player hearing OOC that the spell is evil doesn't give the paladin any info whatsoever IC.

It does let the paladin know he should attempt a spell craft check. Ignorance is not bliss in the case of a paladin

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