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Hi all. I've noticed that many published material and players play the game based on "genders are largely equal". I'm curious if...
1) most play it this way
I certainly do.
2) does this seem possible
Sure. When women can have the power to turn you into a toad as easily as men, and some of the more badass Gods are female, a lot of sexism tends to depart at speed.
3) if changed what do u do different
I wouldn't.
The idea of gender equality across dozens of races in a fantasy setting is hard to accept as anything loosely based in reality when men and women of one race in the real world is still an ideal at best (and only in some parts of the world at that). This suspends disbelief for me to some extent and wonder if it does for u and how much. Even in say PFS, there are far more men in charge of a faction then men and, without spoiling much, Cheliax wasn't doing well last i saw.
Share with me plz.
Uh...gender equality is universal among the majority of most PC races, not across the world. The Drow are matriarchal and treat men quite badly, Orcs are patriarchal and do the same to women, Gnolls tend to be patriarchal as well (oddly enough), and so on and so forth. Asmodeus is quite misogynistic, too. There's quite a bit of gender bias in a variety of cultures in Golarion. Just not the prevailing Human, Elven, Dwarven, Gnom, or Halfling ones.
And heck, even among those, there's a female dominated nation in Southern Garund and Amiri's original tribe were quite sexist towards women. It's a thing that exists, just not the prevailing norm.
Basically what Deadmanwalking said. Why persecute the X chromosome when there's a perfectly persecutable ♣ chromosome sitting right over there?
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1) most play it this way
2) does this seem possible
3) if changed what do u do different
1. Yes
2. Yes.3. N/A
Some places and cultures do have sexist institutions, from the patriarchal tribe Amiri hailed from or matriarchal Qadira, but general equality is the general norm.
If someone wants to have sexism as a form of adversity for the characters to overcome, they have options for that, but I'm glad it isn't the norm for the sake of those that don't want to have to deal with that as a standard. That and I enjoy having a fantasy world not completely emulate the at-a-glance history of the real world, and as such don't feel particularly bound to cleave to the worst elements of our past.
1) most play it this way
2) does this seem possible
3) if changed what do u do different
1. Yes
2. Yes.
3. N/ASome places and cultures do have sexist institutions, from the patriarchal tribe Amiri hailed from or matriarchal Qadira, but general equality is the general norm.
If someone wants to have sexism as a form of adversity for the characters to overcome, they have options for that, but I'm glad it isn't the norm for the sake of those that don't want to have to deal with that as a standard. That and I enjoy having a fantasy world not completely emulate the at-a-glance history of the real world, and as such don't feel particularly bound to cleave to the worst elements of our past.
Well said,. Exactly what I was thinking!
Hi all. I've noticed that many published material and players play the game based on "genders are largely equal". I'm curious if...
1) most play it this way
2) does this seem possible
3) if changed what do u do different
1) Absolutely.
2) Since 1 is a definitive yes, this has to follow as such.3) I don't think I understand the question.
My approach is for gender equality to be the norm. This, among other things, makes the game desirable to play at all for female players. I'm okay with sexist cultures or characters, but I like that to be as a contrast to the usual "discrimination is bad, mmmkay?" vibe. Same basic answers for racism, homophobia, similar topics. With the exception that some races (in the D&D sense) or cultures (countries, whatever) might not get along as a generalisation. See dwarves and orcs in Golarion.
I don't think I know why you're asking. Do you run games where most cultures are as horribly misogynistic as many Earth cultures historically were? Do any of your players play female characters in such a game? How do your players generally feel about this?
...Yeah, haven't really seen gender inequality in Golarion be much of a problem as a whole. There's a race on Castrovel that has some sexual dimorphism; that's rather interesting in a "men are dwarves, women are elves" sort of way. I like the fact that this is an interesting anomaly instead of the norm.
Socially, gender balance is all over the place, and that's fine by me. There are settings and situations for all types of players--those who want to explore such social issues and those who want to escape from the real-world prevalence of said issues.
Me, I just don't want to see any more Stuffed in the Fridge examples.
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Gnolls tend to be patriarchal as well (oddly enough)That bit there's kind of an error we're working on fixing. Gnolls should be matriarchal.
Yay! Thanks James!
That always made more sense. The ones in LoF are Rovvagug worshiping heretics, so they can stay all patriarchal and crazy, but good Lamashtan Gnolls should be ruled by the women, dammit.
2) to c if anyone brings up or talks about how in a agrarian, medieval, tribal, or feudal societies the differences that gender plays. Those differences are small but ever present. For the considerable majority of my pathfinder games I just overlook em and play. Even so that is the basis of question 2.
The issue with this is, well, magic sorta invalidates almost all of them. Birth control? Totally an easy herb (probably created by magic) away. Paternity worries? Easily checkable with the right magic. Male upper body strength? Not a factor mechanically, and even if it is in-world...turning someone into a newt doesn't require it. God says so? No, as a matter of fact she doesn't, and you can ask her if you'd like. Inherently lesser, you say? Perhaps you'd like to try being one for a while...(this last one is generally pretty cruel, but it could happen, and frankly so's that newt thing I keep mentioning).
In short...it wouldn't make sense for there to be the kind of ubiquitous sexism there was at one point on Earth on Golarion.
Note: I'm not saying it made sense on Earth, or that those justifications are true on Earth...I'm saying that almost all the ways it was justified are much more easily proven false by women who can cast Wish or Baleful Polymorph. Or by provable female deities.
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My approach is for gender equality to be the norm. This, among other things, makes the game desirable to play at all for female players. I'm okay with sexist cultures or characters, but I like that to be as a contrast to the usual "discrimination is bad, mmmkay?" vibe. Same basic answers for racism, homophobia, similar topics. With the exception that some races (in the D&D sense) or cultures (countries, whatever) might not get along as a generalisation. See dwarves and orcs in Golarion.
Have to agree with this general sentiment. I don't want real-world issues like sexism, racism, and homophobia intruding on my fun game time. That's not to say you can't include them in a game and have fun with them, but I'd be wary of giving those sorts of issues focus unless you're sure everyone at the table is cool with it.
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My approach is for gender equality to be the norm. This, among other things, makes the game desirable to play at all for female players. I'm okay with sexist cultures or characters, but I like that to be as a contrast to the usual "discrimination is bad, mmmkay?" vibe. Same basic answers for racism, homophobia, similar topics. With the exception that some races (in the D&D sense) or cultures (countries, whatever) might not get along as a generalisation. See dwarves and orcs in Golarion.Have to agree with this general sentiment. I don't want real-world issues like sexism, racism, and homophobia intruding on my fun game time. That's not to say you can't include them in a game and have fun with them, but I'd be wary of giving those sorts of issues focus unless you're sure everyone at the table is cool with it.
I agree. And think Golarion's pretty solid for this. Amiri has a strong sexism element in her background, and so can you, if you like...but none of the other female Iconics do, nor need you if you don't want to. Ditto other issues like racism, religious or anti-religious bias, illegitimacy, or a host of other issues.
@Jonathon: no I do not run all or even most pathfinder games based on earths history. Ive had 2 women play in games where they knew that women were not quite equal and they liked it (formed their backstory in fact).I do sometimes bring such a thing into play but that is not what I believe pathfinder aims for; which I think is fun escapist fantasy. The "point" was 1) just a poll for my own knowledge and
2) to c if anyone brings up or talks about how in a agrarian, medieval, tribal, or feudal societies the differences that gender plays. Those differences are small but ever present. For the considerable majority of my pathfinder games I just overlook em and play. Even so that is the basis of question 2.
In their back story? Something they've mostly overcome rather than still be fighting in every social encounter?
I see this as kinda like the recent discussion on half-orcs: Sure, it's important to have the option of having had a violent conception, but you shouldn't be pigeonholed into it by the GM.
You want to see gender inequality in Golarion, look no further than Kostchtchie (Chaotic Evil). Basic tenets on gender equality amount to women are good for two things... sex and giving birth to men.
Now, that said, I actually even before Golarion for the most part had more equality in my games. Sure, I might have had a few misogynistic cultures here and there depending on the campaign world, but overall I think it's a lofty goal in real life, but we can have it in our fantasy and hope that someday enough of us can find a way to make a difference.
EDIT: Oh, and Kostchtchie hates witches. More than he hates women.
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The fact that they liked putting it into their backstories isn't enough to justify making sexism the norm in the setting, though. What if someone just wanted to play a brawling barmaid barbarian? It's something that only thrives in certain groups, which is why it really wouldn't have much place being declared the default in Golarion.
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Hi all. I've noticed that many published material and players play the game based on "genders are largely equal". I'm curious if...
1) most play it this way
2) does this seem possible
3) if changed what do u do differentThe idea of gender equality across dozens of races in a fantasy setting is hard to accept as anything loosely based in reality when men and women of one race in the real world is still an ideal at best (and only in some parts of the world at that). This suspends disbelief for me to some extent and wonder if it does for u and how much. Even in say PFS, there are far more men in charge of a faction then men and, without spoiling much, Cheliax wasn't doing well last i saw.
Share with me plz.
Our group generally has the "usual" gender stereotypes as a matter of course. I prefer it Paizo's way, but usually the "finest warrior in the kingdom" is going to be a man when we come up with an NPC like that (or if it's a woman her gender will be a point of note). Kings go off to war leaving ladies doing tapestry. Men fall in love with women, dominant cultures are generally western medieval societies etcetera.
Although I'm a big fan of inclusion (hence my preference for Paizo's way of addressing these issues), I think my job as DM is to entertain the players rather than challenge their/our prejudices.
@Jonathon: no I do not run all or even most pathfinder games based on earths history. Ive had 2 women play in games where they knew that women were not quite equal and they liked it (formed their backstory in fact).I do sometimes bring such a thing into play but that is not what I believe pathfinder aims for; which I think is fun escapist fantasy. The "point" was 1) just a poll for my own knowledge and
2) to c if anyone brings up or talks about how in a agrarian, medieval, tribal, or feudal societies the differences that gender plays. Those differences are small but ever present. For the considerable majority of my pathfinder games I just overlook em and play. Even so that is the basis of question 2.
I tend to prefer a more naturalistic model like you seem to. This doesn't entail dwelling on the more oppressive aspects, a PC who goes against the norm is not persistently challenged and ostracized even if the particularities of their personhood can and do provoke consequences based on their social context, they are largely recognized as exceptional (as PCs are in general, irrespective of gender). The fantasy world is not dominated by a single monotheistic theocracy with judeo-christian type sexual fixations, differences like magic open to all genders certainly have some effect, and gender issues aside the setting cannot wholely be described as 'medieval' with several more modern features... so it isn't going to corresond to the most oppressive medieval christian backwater you might find historically, it will be better than that. There are more extreme gender roled societies, and likewise ones that swing the other way (full equality or reversed situation from historical real-world), which would likewise lose their meaning if gender was whitewashed. People find in MODERN day world social gender diffences, certainly in 20th century history (with plenty of "magic" technology) there is differences, so pretending there is no differences is silly and reduces the richness of the setting.
I also prefer a more naturalistic model in other areas, e.g. getting away from the idea of one single "Common" for the most part, and using more of a plurality of "regional trade languages" with some being larger/more common than others, some being more integrated into average persons' daily lives than others, etc.
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The issue with this is, well, magic sorta invalidates almost all of them. Birth control? Totally an easy herb (probably created by magic) away. Paternity worries? Easily checkable with the right magic. Male upper body strength? Not a factor mechanically, and even if it is in-world...turning someone into a newt doesn't require it. God says so? No, as a matter of fact she doesn't, and you can ask her if you'd like. Inherently lesser, you say? Perhaps you'd like to try being one for a while...(this last one is generally pretty cruel, but it could happen, and frankly so's that newt thing I keep mentioning).
I find this line of reasoning rather shallow. 'Herbs for birth control' are exactly a feature of realistic historic medieval humanity. Actual history is replete with female deities, and priestesses. Certainly rich and powerful women have existed in actual history, and most men would beware crossing them. Reducing history to 'men:powerful/high, women:weak/low' ignores the actual social structuring of society.
The intimation that you ignore or erase male/female strength variance from the in-game context is shocking, and laughably irrealistic to believe that players can/will actually expunge such conceptions from their mind. I mean, in the most gender equal locale you could imagine on modern Earth, no serious person could ever REMOTELY imagine that to be true. Are you permanently conflicted with the biologial definition of human males and females to the point that in your fantasy game world you must remove it, essentially creating a new species not corresponding to actual humans? Obviously in the fantasy world, there are other species, and those can and do offer other gender dynamics in that regard, but this sort of conceit seems absolutely baffling, at least outside of a specific setting where genders did not exist as we know them.
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I've seen female players confused and disconcerted by the radical gender equality that seems standard in most Golarion societies. I had a player come to the table with a character background for her female paladin in Curse of the Crimson Throne where she'd overcome gender expectations of a traditional patriarchal society to become a warrior, and wasn't happy when I said "But most of the senior NPCs in Korvosa are female!"
I often find gender difficult to deal with in Paizo stuff. I've seen NPC backgrounds where female NPCs overcome patriarchal gender norms, but those gender norms rarely if ever seem to exist elsewhere in the material. Occasionally it's explained well, as in the Sandpoint guide at the back of Rise of the Runelords - from reading that I had a good idea of gender norms in Sandpoint, how people would regard Kendra Deverin as mayor, etc. But often it just comes over as a heavy-handed and thoughtless editorial policy, as in Skull & Shackles, where I'm left at a loss as to how the mixed-sex pirate crews are supposed to function. In general comparing Runelords and Crimson Throne from 2007-8 with the later AP issues I own, the problem seems to be getting worse with the more recent material.
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The intimation that you ignore or erase male/female strength variance from the in-game context is shocking, and laughably irrealistic to believe that players can/will actually expunge such conceptions from their mind. I mean, in the most gender equal locale you could imagine on modern Earth, no serious person could ever REMOTELY imagine that to be true.
I frequently see people on the Internet claim to believe IRL that men and women are equally strong by nature, and that to believe otherwise is sexist. The people saying this seem to be sedentary males, but sedentary males make up the majority of Internet posters in general. :)
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'Herbs for birth control' are exactly a feature of realistic historic medieval humanity.
No, although the Romans had one until it went extinct - couldn't be farmed and was over-harvested. Medieval European birth control involved abstinence before marriage, and late marriage - there's no evidence of birth contol after marriage; fertility rates seem to have been at or close to the biological limit (about 1 child per 12-18 months). Whereas nomadic hunter-gatherer populations do seem to control fertility within marriage (about 1 child per 3-4 years) but not by herbs; typically they avoid procreative sex until the previous child can walk.
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I frequently see people on the Internet claim to believe IRL that men and women are equally strong by nature, and that to believe otherwise is sexist. The people saying this seem to be sedentary males, but sedentary males make up the majority of Internet posters in general. :)
The intimation that you ignore or erase male/female strength variance from the in-game context is shocking, and laughably irrealistic to believe that players can/will actually expunge such conceptions from their mind. I mean, in the most gender equal locale you could imagine on modern Earth, no serious person could ever REMOTELY imagine that to be true.
Most likely they are trying to use the case of extraordinarily strong women and/or equally weak men as the norm. Sometimes people get so caught up in their corner case they forget that the discussion is on the norm.
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'Herbs for birth control' are exactly a feature of realistic historic medieval humanity.No, although the Romans had one until it went extinct - couldn't be farmed and was over-harvested. Medieval European birth control involved abstinence before marriage, and late marriage - there's no evidence of birth contol after marriage...
Hm, I use medieval in a general sense, not Europe specific, even if I guess other regions might be somewhat more advanced or rich than Europe...
But just a cursory Google search found plenty of herbal birth control going on in medieval Europe as well as other parts of the world, with persistent Christian denunciation and persecution of such in Europe as evidence of it's practice. Plenty of specific herbs mentioned as well.http://www.suppressedhistories.net/secrethistory/contraception.html
http://www.rexresearch.com/birthcontrol/herbcontr.htm
http://www.glowm.com/section_view/heading/History%20of%20Contraception/item /375
http://womensdecision.blogspot.com/2006/04/herbal-birth-control_11453800035 6312882.html
http://www.nakedshaman.net/Herbal-Birth-Control-Abortion.html
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People find in MODERN day world social gender diffences, certainly in 20th century history (with plenty of "magic" technology) there is differences, so pretending there is no differences is silly and reduces the richness of the setting.
Yeah...but it's changing in a more gender-balanced direction, and we've had most of the 'magic' technology that helped change it in that direction what, 50 years? Maybe 100? Golarion's had magic for millennia, and presumably the same kind of gender balancing has been going on that entire time.
I also prefer a more naturalistic model in other areas, e.g. getting away from the idea of one single "Common" for the most part, and using more of a plurality of "regional trade languages" with some being larger/more common than others, some being more integrated into average persons' daily lives than others, etc.
Actually, Common (actually Taldane) is explained pretty well in Golarion, given it was the common tongue of an Empire that ruled over most of the Inner Sea area (at least in Avistan). It's like people in medieval Europe knowing Latin, only even more believable since it's not mostly a dead language.
Different areas actually do have different equivalents (Polyglot in the Mwangi expanse, Tian in Tian Xia, etc.) So...this is actually a thing. For the record.
I find this line of reasoning rather shallow. 'Herbs for birth control' are exactly a feature of realistic historic medieval humanity.
Yeah...not exactly. there were certainly a number of herbs used, but they weren't know about by everyone and were notably and profoundly unreliable (as mentioned by others). Pathfinder has, listed in the Adventurer's Armory, one that's basically 100% effective and used by women. That's a huge difference right there, as is evidenced by what the common availability of the pill did for women's lib.
Actual history is replete with female deities, and priestesses.
What part of history? The medieval European part, where women were considered less than men, was notably lacking in them, and many societies that did have them treated women somewhat better.
But all that's beside the point. My point was if you have real and provable, female, deities who can actually talk to their worshipers, they're going to gradually influence said churches away from sexism towards women. Calistria, Desna, Shelyn, Pharasma, and Sarenrae have had millenia to do this, with only Asmodeus really opposing them (and per James Jacobs he's seriously scared of Pharasma, which might prove an impediment to such opposition). Is it any surprise it worked?
Certainly rich and powerful women have existed in actual history, and most men would beware crossing them. Reducing history to 'men:powerful/high, women:weak/low' ignores the actual social structuring of society.
Sure...but the power of high level Pathfinder characters is an order of magnitude different than the personal prowess of any real world person. Powerful people in history were powerful because people listened to them and did as they said, which misogynists could pretty easily explain away as the men they ordered to do things being the powerful ones (though foolish, to serve a woman)...that's a lot harder to do when the woman in question can directly destroy you with a thought.
The intimation that you ignore or erase male/female strength variance from the in-game context is shocking, and laughably irrealistic to believe that players can/will actually expunge such conceptions from their mind. I mean, in the most gender equal locale you could imagine on modern Earth, no serious person could ever REMOTELY imagine that to be true. Are you permanently conflicted with the biologial definition of human males and females to the point that in your fantasy game world you must remove it, essentially creating a new species not corresponding to actual humans? Obviously in the fantasy world, there are other species, and those can and do offer other gender dynamics in that regard, but this sort of conceit seems absolutely baffling, at least outside of a specific setting where genders did not exist as we know them.
Honestly? I don't think about this issue too much and neither do my players. Women don't get a Strength penalty, therefore women can be as strong as men. Whether that's the norm...perhaps, perhaps not. If I were inclined to think on it, I'd probably say that yes, on average, human women have less upper body strength than human men, reflecting reality as you say. I might even apply the same standards to Half-Elves and Half-Orcs...but Elves, Dwarves, Halflings and Gnomes don't logically follow. And dealing with such species would tend to modify human attitudes towards those women who departed from this particular norm.
And heck, again, this is a world with magic. Who's to say someone (presumably a feminist) didn't modify the species long ago so that women were as strong as men? Yes, this would technically make them a subspecies...but as the only kind of human on the planet, who cares? I probably wouldn't do this, but it's hardly a stretch if you did.
And I'll note that I specifically followed up by explaining why whether that was true or not was highly irrelevant since, in the world of Pathfinder, unlike the real world with medieval technology, raw muscle power is not necessarily the most effective method of disposing of foes even in a straight fight.
Well said,. Exactly what I was thinking!
1) most play it this way
2) does this seem possible
3) if changed what do u do different
1. Yes
2. Yes.
3. N/ASome places and cultures do have sexist institutions, from the patriarchal tribe Amiri hailed from or matriarchal Qadira, but general equality is the general norm.
If someone wants to have sexism as a form of adversity for the characters to overcome, they have options for that, but I'm glad it isn't the norm for the sake of those that don't want to have to deal with that as a standard. That and I enjoy having a fantasy world not completely emulate the at-a-glance history of the real world, and as such don't feel particularly bound to cleave to the worst elements of our past.
+1
Gender equality is the default for the setting, much like a wider acceptance of relationships between the same sex, between the various races, magic is accepted and so on.
This allows folks from a wide range of backgrounds and beliefs to play the game without feeling that the game is set up to make them feel bad or worthless or that they are not supported. There are, as other people have mentioned, variations regionally of course.
This also allows GMs and players to adapt the game to their individual tastes and alter the default for more or less of any of the above.
Golarion is not Earth and did not develop in the same way and does not share many of its quaint social problems.
'Herbs for birth control' are exactly a feature of realistic historic medieval humanity.No, although the Romans had one until it went extinct - couldn't be farmed and was over-harvested. Medieval European birth control involved abstinence before marriage, and late marriage - there's no evidence of birth contol after marriage...Hm, I use medieval in a general sense, not Europe specific, even if I guess other regions might be somewhat more advanced or rich than Europe...
But just a cursory Google search found plenty of herbal birth control going on in medieval Europe as well as other parts of the world, with persistent Christian denunciation and persecution of such in Europe as evidence of it's practice. Plenty of specific herbs mentioned as well.http://www.suppressedhistories.net/secrethistory/contraception.html
http://www.rexresearch.com/birthcontrol/herbcontr.htm
http://www.glowm.com/section_view/heading/History%20of%20Contraception/item /375
http://womensdecision.blogspot.com/2006/04/herbal-birth-control_11453800035 6312882.html
http://www.nakedshaman.net/Herbal-Birth-Control-Abortion.html
The romans had silphium, which went extinct, though apparently not through overuse. We do not know its properties, and likely never will. As for contraceptive and abortifacient herbs, none of those we know about today are reliable. In general, it can be said that trying to break a pregnancy through herbal means amounts to poisoning yourself and hoping the pregnancy is terminated before you are, with uncertain doses. It is not, generally speaking, a good idea. There are many poisonous herbs you can use for it, however.
I'll drop a line and mention that Erastil has very traditional beliefs and makes for a very real euro-medieval god for Golarion.
Some of this thread though.../facepalm.
Iomedae goddess of valor and glory? Patron deity of goodly warriors? It would be hard to believe that people wouldn't find women to be capable in the world of Golarion where we literally have a champion crusading the cause of good who was then elevated to GODHOOD through her own tenacity by completing the Trials of the Starstone.
Baba Yaga and the land of Irrisen anyone?
Golarion has enough gender play to be tasteful and thats the way I like it. There are enough parallels and comparisons that show that one or the other gender aren't exactly being treated over the other.
Hi all. I've noticed that many published material and players play the game based on "genders are largely equal". I'm curious if...
1) most play it this way
2) does this seem possible
3) if changed what do u do differentThe idea of gender equality across dozens of races in a fantasy setting is hard to accept as anything loosely based in reality when men and women of one race in the real world is still an ideal at best (and only in some parts of the world at that). This suspends disbelief for me to some extent and wonder if it does for u and how much. Even in say PFS, there are far more men in charge of a faction then men and, without spoiling much, Cheliax wasn't doing well last i saw.
Share with me plz.
Gender roles are alive and well in our games though:
1) different races and even different cultures may embrace wildly variable 'gender roles' than what would be considered traditional in our world.
2) There are always exceptions to the established norm.
We have to look realistically at gender roles as having a valid purpose and legitimate reason behind them, especially in less advanced civilization - not just as a fabrication and means of oppression by the evil Male.
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Gender roles are alive and well in our games though:
1) different races and even different cultures may embrace wildly variable 'gender roles' than what would be considered traditional in our world.
In fairness, I do this too to some degree when doing homebrew worlds. In the world for the game I just started (tribal humans and orcs rebelling against the pseudo-Roman Elven Empire) Orcs have strong traditional gender roles involving men doing the hunting, fighting, and ruling while women do the farming and all intellectual pursuits, including what Arcane magic they have. Humans have no fixed gender roles (their main War deity is female, for example), Dwarves are kinda misogynistic, Elves have some weird gender roles based on their Gods (LN god, CN goddess), Halflings are vaguely matriarchal, etc.
2) There are always exceptions to the established norm.
Agreed. The above mentioned campaign includes an Orc Barbarian Princess. Her father does not approve of her life choices...but he respects her skill, and she's actually currently on a rather sensitive mission for him.
We have to look realistically at gender roles as having a valid purpose and legitimate reason behind them, especially in less advanced civilization - not just as a fabrication and means of oppression by the evil Male.
Some of them did...others not so much. It depended a lot on the particular culture. Certainly the many cultures that deemed women inherently less worthy or capable than men in basically all fields of endeavor were oppressive for reasons that amounted to complete b#+&!!$@.
Others (virginity till marriage for women but not men, for example) certainly had purpose and debatably legitimate reasons behind them, but as I mention, magic tends to invalidate a lot of those...
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1) Women being on a lower rung of the social ladder in the real world is a combination of different influences that don't necessarily exist in the same way in a fantasy setting.
2) I imagine that a lot of groups aren't really interested in adding that stuff to their games.
3) I have a hard time understanding why anthropomorphic fish people doesn't hurt suspension of disbelief but women being treated with respect in most societies is too unbelievable.