Wizard advice: surviving as a diviner with evoc and necro as opposed school


Advice


Hey guys.

I am about to start a game as a lvl 1 diviner (foresight) and I was wondering if anyone has done something similar. If so what kinds of spells would you suggest?

Dark Archive

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Buff spells, Your party will LOVE you!
Enlarge person
Bull's Strength,Cat's grace,Invisibility etc.
Haste, Haste, Haste and some blink and fly too
Improved Invisibility
That's just a start I don't have my books with me right now.


You can do just fine with any 2 prohibited schools. The key is to focus on what you can do rather than what you can't. So if you still have Conjuration, Enchantment, Illusion and Transmutation find your offense there.
Level 1 Grease, Charm Person, Sleep, Enlarge Person(on a melee type), Color Spray.
Level 2 Create Pit, Glitterdust, Acid Arrow, Summon Swarm, Hideous Laughter, Unnatural Lust
Level 3 Spiked Pit, Stinking Cloud, Aqueous Orb, Haste, Slow

You kept all the best defenses except False Life, so it is really a matter of controlling the battlefield and buffing your party members. You are going to be a master of avoiding fights and hiding from enemies.
I play a similar character (Conjurer opposed Abjuration, Evocation) and he is more useful than I would have thought while almost unable to get the limelight.

Dark Archive

Summon monster, whenever I play a summoner everyone goes rogue for some reason...

Scarab Sages

Extended merciful acid arrow (with true strike). Extend spell is a really great metamagic feat for a diviner as is merciful spell (+0 level adjustment on merciful).

Other than that I can only really support what the others have said. Grab utility & support spells. Keep the party effective and they'll appreciate your presence enough to ensure you make it through most dangers unharmed.

You'll find that transmutation & enchantment spells tend to support a diviner's playstyle quite well. You might have wanted to select illussion & necromancy as your opposed schools as evocation generally has some all 'round appliances but then it's hardly a subtle. I'm sure you can do without it :).

Why have big damage dealing spells when you've got big damage dealing fighters in armour doing that for you?


At level 10 take Opposition Research Dsicovery to get back Necromancy.

At higher level prepare maximized enervations and have a Rod of Quicken Spell. Laugh at your enemy as you go first and reduce their effective level by 8.

At lower levels, focus on battlefield control and setting up buffs for your party. You'll often be going first so you will get to shape the battlefield.


I also recommend taking as many item creation feats as you can, if it is the kind of campaign where that is allowed. Improved Initiative is kind of a feat tax on this build because going after the fighter makes you much less useful. Dazing Spell, Persistent Spell and Quicken Spell are your best metamagic feats on this kind of build with Heighten Spell getting honorable mention as a prerequisite for Preferred Spell. I think Evocation is very strong with Dazing Spell, so if you go that way I would get it back with Opposition Research between 9 and 11.


How many are there in the party and what classes/roles are the other characters taking?

Buffing assumes someone (else) able to go toe to toe with the monsters and generally you want to avoid duplication of function if there are only a few characters.

For example if you have no scout to you want to take a familiar?
Is there another arcane caster in the party, what are they being built to do?
What are the Divine Casters good at?

Generally speaking I'm suggesting you also talk to the other players in your group and see what your party needs.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

QUOTE="Valrydus"] Hey guys.

I am about to start a game as a lvl 1 diviner (foresight) and I was wondering if anyone has done something similar. If so what kinds of spells would you suggest?

Not just spells...maximize your diviner benefit.

PRD wrote:


Forewarned (Su): You can always act in the surprise round even if you fail to make a Perception roll to notice a foe, but you are still considered flat-footed until you take an action. In addition, you receive a bonus on initiative checks equal to 1/2 your wizard level (minimum +1). At 20th level, anytime you roll initiative, assume the roll resulted in a natural 20.

Traits: Exile or Reactionary. +2 to init.

Familiar: Rabbit, scorpion, or compsognathus. +4 to init.

Before dex, a feat or say a racial (the ifrit with Wildfire Heart for example) you have:
+1(class)+2(trait)+4(familiar) = +7 init and you always go in the surprise round. For a wizard that worries about friendly fire or wanting to lay down battlefield control this is amazing.

Spells: Since Evocation and Necromancy are out I'd recommend on focusing on control early on. That would be Conjuration or to a lesser extent Enchantment and Illusion. Conjuration is still considered one of the premier schools and is solid from level 1 all the way throughout your entire career.
Color Spray is Illusion and not Conjuration but is one of the most powerful spells at first level.

Preferred Spells:
1-Color Spray, Grease
2-Glitterdust, Stone Call, Web.
3-Aqueous Orb, Stinking Cloud
4-Black Tentacles.

Other spells to consider:
1-Obscuring Mist, Snowball.
2-Alter Self, Blur, Invisibility, Mirror Image
3-Haste, Mad Monkeys
4-Dimension Door(take the Dimensional Agility feat if you select this spell)

Feats:
Spell Focus(Conjuration)
Varisian Tattoo(Conjuration)

Other roles such as summoning monsters or even buffing allies are solid, but stick with what you are going to be best at, warping reality before anyone else gets to go.

Scarab Sages

Also, consider getting Staff-Like wand for a Discovery. Using wands for opposed spells with your caster level/int will cover any Blasting/Necromancy needs you might have.


1) Boost your initiative! Between always act in the surprise round and high initiative you should be acting (sometimes twice) before the enemy every time! Take reactionary (or another init boosting trait) a scorpion (for +4) and improved init. when you can. You should have close to a +10 out the gate, meaning you win initiative a lot! Buy one of those +1 ioun stones (don't remember which one off hand) for 500 gp when you can afford it.

2) I'd focus on battlefield control. You may want to pick up spell focus and greater spell focus conjuration. My favorite thing about conjuration is a large number of your best spells ignore SR. I hate dealing with SR, so when I make my knowledge check thats usually the first question I ask, and then I knock off all the spells I have memorized that need to overcome SR as options. I usually still have roughly 65% of my memorized spell list! Pretty good!

At level 1 take grease. Unfortunately there isn't a ton of spells at level 1. For your level 1 divination spell you probably want identify or comprehend languages.

Level 2 starts to open up some great options - including create pit, web and glitterdust. Your go to level 2 has pretty much got to be see invisibility.

Level 3 you have an array of great spells. This is where summon monsters start to get good, and you may want to consider picking it up. Other great choices are aqueous orb, mad monkeys and stinking cloud. The orb is your friend. Theres nothing like dropping a stinking cloud, having a few guys make their saves and run out, and dropping an orb and rolling them right back in it:) Your level three divination spell will probably vary depending on the campaign, tongues and Clairaudience/Clairvoyance are my notable shout outs.

Level 4 spells you get black tentacles (yay!). This can end many fights if you go first. You probably want a DDoor as a get out of harms way free card. For divination at this level I like arcane eye.

After this point it gets hard to pick spells as games and needs start to vary more wildly, but that should get you through the low levels.

Sovereign Court

^+1 on everything Under a Bleeding Sun just said. If you don't mind the extra bookkeeping and 1 round summoning time, Summon Monster is also an excellent choice.

As for defenses, Mirror Image is my favorite low-level defensive buff. Shield and Mage Armor are great for getting your AC to respectable levels early on, but past the first few levels you're much better off with miss %; without armor/shield to enchant it's nigh impossible to keep up with enemies' to-hit bonuses.

As for early spells, since you get a Diviniation-only slot for each level, I would go with True Strike and have some handy alchemical items to toss around like Tanglefoot Bags. Keep in mind you can use True Strike with a Bull Rush to knock people back 15-20 feet! (though you might eat an attack of opportunity in the process)


Because foresight diviners usually go first, I'd also recommend looking at taking at least 1 devistating debuff per spell level. Your first action could be to always just hose the enemies. also since you'll be going first and probably never surprised, you won't have to deal with the usual caster worry of having your barbarian charge into the perfectly lined up monsters before you drop an area spell on them.

1: sleep or grease
2: glitterdust or create pit
3: stinking cloud or slow
4: confusion or black tentacles

just to show a few good area save or suck bombs you can drop. I usually follow the rule of buffing the party on single monsters or blasting groups with an offensive spell targeting a weak save in the first round.

Summoning is always recommended because it is very good mechanically, but if you have a large group of other players or no patience to track all the extra monsters debuffing can be very fun. I personally only use summons only rarely because we usually have large player groups.


Wow. Thanks a lot guys. I am used to playing fighters and other martial types and so the idea of going higher up through casting from the beginning is rather intimidating.

For story reasons some of this stuff will not be coming at the pace you all have mentioned.

This wizard is human with the following feats: (fast learner and improvisation) and she considers herself a thief. She will always be working on scrolls in the background as well to maximize utility.

As for the other party members, the only confirmed is a sword n board fighter (elf). He apparently has himself up to a 23 AC at lvl 1. Ill take it! So I guess ill concentrate on using magics that help keep him from being surrounded or exploited (illusion, charm, etc).

Thanks again...Ill definitely write this down so when i sit down with the DM we can be ready for the start.

After 3 years of grad school i can't wait to play again ha.

Dark Archive

Guidance and resistance are good cantrips, as well as dancing lights and for the first few levels:daze
As for everything else, I would go with what everyone else is saying save that I believe Improved invisibility is an AMAZING 4th level spell

Grand Lodge

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The most important characteristic for survival, as a 1st level Wizard, is positioning. Where you stand, especially before combat begins, strongly influences how many attacks you take. You want to always position yourself so that surprise foes are not on you. Anticipate where the probable threats are, and avoid them. Always keep your allies between you and possible threats. The middle of the group is the place for you. Encourage someone tougher to take the dangerous rear guard position.

Silver Crusade

TheWiz wrote:
The most important characteristic for survival, as a 1st level Wizard, is positioning. Where you stand, especially before combat begins, strongly influences how many attacks you take. You want to always position yourself so that surprise foes are not on you. Anticipate where the probable threats are, and avoid them. Always keep your allies between you and possible threats. The middle of the group is the place for you. Encourage someone tougher to take the dangerous rear guard position.

Of course...in the middle you're Fireball Bait, or any other AoE.

In the long run just do your best to walk softly and carry a big summons.


If your DM is alright with this feat, you should take it if you're going to focus on summons. Acadamae Graduate


I find for cantrips that acid splash isn't that good because you will be firing into melee and past you allies for soft cover as well. I got huge mileage out of daze though. Its really good in first level combat for removing enemy actions. You may enjoy casting enlarge person on the fighter and then standing behind them within their threatened squares. Its better than having armor.

Grand Lodge

ErrantPursuit wrote:
TheWiz wrote:
The most important characteristic for survival, as a 1st level Wizard, is positioning. Where you stand, especially before combat begins, strongly influences how many attacks you take. You want to always position yourself so that surprise foes are not on you. Anticipate where the probable threats are, and avoid them. Always keep your allies between you and possible threats. The middle of the group is the place for you. Encourage someone tougher to take the dangerous rear guard position.

Of course...in the middle you're Fireball Bait, or any other AoE.

In the long run just do your best to walk softly and carry a big summons.

By the time your group's Fireball Formation is taking fireballs you are flying 50' above the party.

Seriously, for low level wizards good positioning is the most important survival characteristic. That's speaking as a GM.

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