Laughing Touch (Sp): At 1st level, you can cause a creature to burst out laughing for 1 round as a melee touch attack. A laughing creature can only take a move action but can defend itself normally. Once a creature has been affected by laughing touch, it is immune to its effects for 24 hours. You can use this ability a number of times per day equal to 3 + your Charisma modifier. This is a mind-affecting effect.
Save dc?
No save?
Yeah, it's weird. I'm the GM telling the player that I think his power doesn't provoke a saving throw, and the player is arguing that it might be abusive and so thinks it should have a saving throw.
Boy, our gaming group sure is friendly. :)
Anyone else want to weigh in?
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This ability has no saving throw. You just have to make the touch attack. It's hardly abusive since it only works on a given creature once a day and requires you to get into melee range.
I suggest flavoring it up by having your sorcerer run up and tickle the opponent, perhaps with a feather.
It's actually extremely powerful when the party outnumbers the enemy or when a higher percentage of the enemy's CR is tied up into one creature than the percentage of the party tied up in the sorcerer. Otherwise, it's not very useful, but since the above situation tends to happen a lot, it's one of the most powerful level 1 sorcerer bloodline powers. It's particularly devastating against solo foes, but having seen fey sorcerers in action, it's quite strong in a variety of situations. Granted, if your save DC is unassailable, then it's better to use a spell with a longer disable duration.
There is no save and the duration is limited so its combat effectiveness is limited. Especially if your sorcerer is not meant to be up in combat and melee situations.
I have a kitsune sorcerer with the fey bloodline in the Skull & Shackles adventure path and she has yet to use it by 8th level as she never wants to be that close to the bad guys. Besides, low level spells like Sleep are good against low level bad guys and single target spells are better against higher level foes or bosses.
Maybe someday I will get to use it...or have the nerve to use it...
Seems like a great way to get out of melee to me. If a fighter gets on you, you touch it and make a move away from him, and he can't AOO you because he's prohibited from attacking. The fact that it keeps the target from threatening squares for a round is quite nice. Touch the target, crawl through his legs while he can't attack, hide somewhere else, etc.
if I understand the ability right What is there to really fear?? charge in tickle the big baddy so for a turn he cant curb stop yer fighter.. Then run way next turn.
It is the part of the sorcerer charging in to tickle the big baddie, not the run away part that scares me. I just do not usually build my sorcerers to be the ones who ever charge into melee.
With me it is just an ability that is way down the list on my chart of effective tactics. If I was grappled, then maybe, but would I be able to make the concentration check becomes my new concern. If I could make it for that, could I not just make it for one of my more powerful effects. Hence, I have yet to use it in combat.
It is the part of the sorcerer charging in to tickle the big baddie, not the run away part that scares me. I just do not usually build my sorcerers to be the ones who ever charge into melee.
With me it is just an ability that is way down the list on my chart of effective tactics. If I was grappled, then maybe, but would I be able to make the concentration check becomes my new concern. If I could make it for that, could I not just make it for one of my more powerful effects. Hence, I have yet to use it in combat.
There is no concentration check.
it is great way to scape of grapple.
it is great way to scape of grapple.
Unless the creature grappling you is an undead abomination, right? Then you better hope you friendly Barbarian is willing to save your ass! ;)
Well maybe I am confusing that spell-like abilities draw attacks of opportunity with them also needing to make a concentration check to activate in a grapple.
Edit: Nope, I was correct!
"A grappled character who attempts to cast a spell or use a spell-like ability must make a concentration check (DC 10 + grappler's CMB + spell level), or lose the spell."
In general, there is only one d20 rolled to apply spell effects. Either the caster rolls to make an attack (touch or otherwise) OR the target rolls a saving throw.
In general, there is only one d20 rolled to apply spell effects. Either the caster rolls to make an attack (touch or otherwise) OR the target rolls a saving throw.
For debuffs, this is not always the case. See bestow curse, my personal favorite debuff that requires some finesse to pull off regularly.
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Well maybe I am confusing that spell-like abilities draw attacks of opportunity with them also needing to make a concentration check to activate in a grapple.
Edit: Nope, I was correct!
"A grappled character who attempts to cast a spell or use a spell-like ability must make a concentration check (DC 10 + grappler's CMB + spell level), or lose the spell."
If you're a sorcerer, DC 10+cmb concentration check is probably a lot easier than making your cmb to escape.
it is great way to scape of grapple.Unless the creature grappling you is an undead abomination, right? Then you better hope you friendly Barbarian is willing to save your ass! ;)
All the campain waiting Jo to get grapple and say "HA!, I auto scape",...stupid undeads ¬¬
It's actually very potent when obtained with Eldritch Heritage.
Played with a barbarian who used it.
Turn 1: Move in and Dazing Touch. Enemy loses his turn.
Turn 2: Full attack.
:)
True, and later on the Greater invisibility thing is just really nice. A really great bloodline for eldrith heritage.
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The Laughing Touch bloodline power does not call for a DC, so it has no save. There are other bloodline powers that call for saves and list DCs.
I could see an argument for it provoking an AOO, since it's (Sp). The act of touching an enemy does not provoke, as it counts as an "Armed" Unarmed Attack, but (Sp) implies a casting is involved/included, which provokes.
No one has mentioned here (so far) that this particular bloodline power becomes a very dangerous ability when the Sorcerer dons a Sorcerer's Robe .
A simple Magic Missile / Laughing Touch combo will auto-debuff the enemy and put the entire party almost 'one round ahead' of the enemy, no save. Nasty stuff.
It provokes when cast like a touch spell, but like a touch spell the caster could cast from five feet away, step, then touch, and even on a miss there's a held charge. If a fey-blooded sorcerer wants to make you laugh and you don't kill him, you're gonna laugh.