Goblin Squad Member
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Something I have not seen much discussion on, is the games armour design. It looks pretty good! I certainly like it, mage hats not withstanding... But as a druid/wild cleric player, I haven't seen anything quite my style.
I want to play a character I could see living in the wild, while not limiting myself to leather armour. Some rugged up chain mail, dented shoulder plates, stuff that makes it seem as though he has seen some hard living in the wilds.
Its not a make or break issue for me. But still I wanted to voice my input on the matter.
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Goblin Squad Member
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My personal hope is that the artists go for an understated, more realistic vibe to the armor visuals. I cannot stand the cartoonish, overblown and unrealistic garbage most games try to pass off as armor nowadays.
It doesn't have to be exact replicas of historical armor, but it should look like it could realistically function as armor without looking like you're strapped in a mini-Mech or dropped in from some anime fantasy.
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Goblin Squad Member
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@Being
You thinking of Stone Plate for your druid?
I'd have to be a dwarf I think to be physically able to move at all burdened so.
But Abrams sandals... I would be fast with very high dps.
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Goblin Squad Member
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We've gone over this in a few threads but I'll say it again here. I do believe that my level 1 plate mail should look like historical plate mail. But fire resistant dragon armor +5 should be stylishly fantastical. Never so overboard as the WoW/WaR look, but certainly something that bends realism.
The Pathfinder look by and large tends to be a bit overboard on the gauntlets and boots, but usually reasonable with the weapons and breastplates.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Personally, I definitely prefer more classical armor styles than fantasy (think of how poorly protected those scantily-clad female fighters in only brassieres are).
Many middle-ages warriors covered their battered armor with surcoats to deflect heat off the armor but would also be customized to display their allegiances. This was part of the development of heraldry across Europe. PFO could even merge the attainment of certain in-game achievements or affiliations to open up heraldric options.
Maybe PFO could allow a crafting "palette" where the crafter (or the new owner) can utilize colors and design to customize their gear. I'm not thinking like LOTRO where a single dye is applied to change to a single color, but more of a adding non-functional crests, symbols, or spikes optionally. I would be particularly interested in creating a family crest, company, settlement, or deity's symbol - even if only a surcoat or chest piece is customizable.
I know ... not high yield for the MVP, but might be pretty simple to implement. It would also help with that attachment sensation that keeps people playing a specific character - something any MMO would like.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I think that the most important thing with armour is to have realistic proportions. Sure, they might look fancy, magical, even fantastic from time to time (I don't think we can escape that) but at least make it look like they could work. No shoulderpads that are bigger than your head, no gauntlets that look like you are a cyborg, things like that.
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Goblin Squad Member
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For me it all depends on the context of the armour. For example, if I am a simple Warrior, I'd want simple, practical plate armour to reflect that. He might be a great warrior, known through out the land for his skills. But at the end of the day he is just a soldier.
Now lets say I play a Champion of Asmodeous I'd want his armour to reflect his great magical power. As such I'd like it to be something you'd never see in real life as long as it makes sense within the world.
Pathfinder is a very high fantasy setting and there are a lot of ways to make impossible armour. Two examples instantly leaps to mind for me, which granted isn't armour but it works. The first being the Sword of Gith in never winter nights two. The sword was shattered into a thousand pieces. But thanks to a magical ritual it could assemble and disassemble at will and much more. The second is a pair of cuffs from the Drizzst novels. Which were bound by magic not by any lock or mechanism, assuring it was near impossible to escape them.
Both of those items would be impossible to replicate in real life, but in a magical universe, I think it fits right in. In fact it is a pet peeve of mine, when settings often neglect to use magic for obvious practical purposes.
But let me make this clear! I do not want wow armour in the game... Just no.. None of that. And if they were to add something along the lines of the dark champion's armor, I'd want to work for it. I am talking about four years down the line to max out my magical and martial skills before I am even allowed to go looking for it.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Of course, first we'd have to settle on a timeline for PfO. That way the armour could be modelled to suit that historical period - plate armour was quite different at the time of Agincourt to the time of Pavia. An MMORPG with a definite historical base, now that would be nice.
I don't think this would happen, but an historian can dream....
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Goblin Squad Member
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Of course, first we'd have to settle on a timeline for PfO. That way the armour could be modelled to suit that historical period - plate armour was quite different at the time of Agincourt to the time of Pavia. An MMORPG with a definite historical base, now that would be nice.
I don't think this would happen, but an historian can dream....
I don't quite mind as development isn't a straight line. different cultures advanced in areas depending on the environment, need or the great thinkers that happened to be born.
Though as a general outline I'd imagine it be around 14th century. There is such things as advanced alchemy, medicine, gun power and basic pistols. But such things are a rarity with swords and shields is still being most commonly used... Then of course we have such things as robots in the forms of Golems but we'll just put that aside from now.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Actually I'd love to have different cultural weapon and armour designs be part of the game's geography (I may have mentioned this before...). I know that we are all starting in a small geographical area, but having a trader/crafter or two who can supply weapons and armour of a different culture would be fabulous. Rather than 'Ye Olde Weapon Shoppe' selling anything from longbows to katanas, I'd like to see rare sources for such weapons as Chinese polearms and Indian fighting knives. A smaller market, but the rarity would be reflected in the price. Obviously this would only work when players want equipment that looks like it fits their concept rather than just 'what does most damage?', but I think (hope) that there'll be enough of the former to support exotic-looking equipment crafting.
Maybe a similar thing would work for historically anachronistic equipment? A 'standard' crafter producing C14th longswords and battleaxes won't necessarily know how to make a falcata or gladius, for example.
It would require more cosmetic programming and separate skill trees, but would really add flavour to the crafting and trading professions.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I agree! I think ESO is one big disappointment, but the one thing I did like was the ability to choose the style/look of your crafting. Because as I said at the start of this thread, I want to play a druid/wild cleric. So I don't want him to wear clean or even rusty plate. I want him to wear Celtic/Nordic like armour, without suffering for it.
Something that always bugged me in a lot of games, pretty much every MMO I ever played, is the lack of choice to play the character I want to play. I love spears, I love glaves, pole arms whatever really. But In wow I never had the pleasure to use that, because I would never find one that was better than the swords or axes I found. So I was permanently stuck with swords and axes, when in my heart all I ever wanted to be was a spearman.
Likewise, for some insane reason, you can not use 90% of your abilities with electro staffs in SWTOR. I personally am so bored with light sabers, I kind of freak every time I see something remotely different in SW. So of course the first thing I do is try to get a staff for combat. Well guess what, I can use it, but now my abilities don't work and I suck in combat. Fun!
It may sound shallow but I feel looking the way you want to look, adds a lot to the game and if it is all visual, what is the harm? As long as plate vaguely looks like plate and the weapon in my hand has a sharp edge, I don't see why it would be so hard for me to transfer the stats of my sword into my spear.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Of course, first we'd have to settle on a timeline for PfO. That way the armour could be modelled to suit that historical period - plate armour was quite different at the time of Agincourt to the time of Pavia. An MMORPG with a definite historical base, now that would be nice.
I don't think this would happen, but an historian can dream....
You probably would have loved Roma Victor, which more or less covered Roman-era Britain. Sadly, it went the way of most small, sandbox MMOs that don't give everyone a participation trophy.
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Goblin Squad Member
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To each his own I suppose. I find the proportions of realistic armor to be very attractive. I also consider historical armor to be a type of art. I'm wierd like that.
I find that I like the extremes the most.
Either really accurate and practical, or incredibly over the top, bombastic, and bright. Though I cut exceptions for characters that decide one half of the equation is good enough. Such as the ripped knight who elected to not wear a chestplate or helm, or the stylized breastplate with dress, etc.
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Goblin Squad Member
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How to do armor was the subject of my first post here, ahhh nostalgia.
I think having attractive, stylish, even flamboyant armor that still has a semblance of functionality and doesn't fall into an anti-physics cartoonish vein is completely possible and to feel limited in that is a failure of imagination. Give the people their plate bikinis as long as I don't have to deal with them to have the use of armor I need.
Beginning armor is really bland leading up to the engraved, polished, embossed, on fire?, super fancy tier 3 armor.
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Goblin Squad Member
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(....)I don't see why it would be so hard for me to transfer the stats of my sword into my spear.
This is where we 50% disagree!
If you want spear to be a viable (not 2nd rate) choice: yes!If you want looks of weapon to be independent of function: no!
What I expect is simple:
* Crafting a tier X spear will not be harder than tier X sword/axe, so finding a spear with equally good base stats would be easy.
* The difference is keywords: Different types of weapons will have a different list of possible keywords. Dagger may be 'light' and 'sharp' while glaive may be 'heavy', '2handed' and possibly also 'sharp'
* Special abilities/attacks will require specific keywords, not specific weapons. "Power attack" will need the 'heavy' keyword, a hypothetic "bleeding cut" may require the 'sharp' keyword. The glaive might perform both but a quarterstaff or pike none.
* There may be some type of weapon proficiencies/specializations, but most of the weapon (and armor) mastery would come from having trained abilities to utilize all the keywords.
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Goblin Squad Member
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(....)I don't see why it would be so hard for me to transfer the stats of my sword into my spear.This is where we 50% disagree!
If you want spear to be a viable (not 2nd rate) choice: yes!
If you want looks of weapon to be independent of function: no!
No I agree fully with that. If there is a spear that has equal viability of a sword, dagger whatever your choice in weapons really, I am fine.
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Goblin Squad Member
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You'll like this video then:
Schola Gladiatoria talks about swords versus spears.
Actually, all Schola Gladiatoria's videos are worth watching if you have an interest in medieval weapons.
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Goblin Squad Member
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The accuracy of a spear is one aspect of the weapon that most (all?) RP games overlook. That and the fact that a deep penetrating wound is more likely to be fatal than a wide but shallow cut.
Spears (and polearms in general) get a bad deal in most RPGs.
The penetrating wound was also one of the strengths of the Roman (and later Spanish) short swords. Training their soldiers to use the point, rather than the edge, was a challenge.
