Exotic weapon, 2d6, 18-20 / x2 crit range, does it exist?


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Grand Lodge

ErrantPursuit wrote:
blackbloodtroll wrote:
ErrantPursuit wrote:
It is. Found here the Falcata is a great one-handed weapon that you can wield in two hands for the big bonus. With improved threat range you could get x3 20% of the time.
You could get a Large one too.

And put spikes on it.

And skulls.

Well, it could be a Sawback Sword, and a Consecrated Weapon of Zyphus.


5.5 means nothing in reality because you can never roll 5.5...that was my point.

Why is Falcata being mentioned? Its a longsword with a x3 multiplier...its not a very good choice for vital strike?

Grand Lodge

Falcata is a 1d8 19-20/x3 weapon.

Not exactly "Longsword".


Question wrote:

I dont know why people have been suggesting warpriest with vital strike. The sacred weapon die is inferior to the regular weapon die until very high levels or mid levels + enlarge. You also dont have the BAB to get power attack/vital strike as you only get full BAB "when attacking", not for the purpose of feats.

IMHO 2d4 is superior to 1d10. Statistically speaking you will get higher rolls with 2d4. 5.5 being the "average" of 1d10 means nothing as you can NEVER get a real world result of 5.5 on a 1d10.

The Nodachi has a higher average even if it has a lower minimum. 5.5 not being a real number has nothing to do with the average. If the rolling the dice 10 times the nodachi should could out ahead so it should also do more total damgage, but yeah I agree I prefer a higher min damage than a single die roll.

Liberty's Edge

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Yep, over 80 rolls, on average a nodachi will do 440 damage (each number, 1-10 rolled 8 times), while on average a Falchion will do 395 (5 1s, 10 3s, 15 4s, 20 5s, 15 6s, 10 7s, 5 8s).

This ignores criticals, but their crit ratio is identical so that doesn't matter in terms of total damage. Now it does mean that the minimum damage on those criticals is higher, but the max is also lower. Just like their other damage.

That's what the different average damage means.

Grand Lodge

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A Large Falcata is a 2d6 19-20/x3.

If the feat is too expensive, then a Cracked Opalescent White Pyramid Ioun Stone is only 1,500 gp.


blackbloodtroll wrote:

A Large Falcata is a 2d6 19-20/x3.

If the feat is too expensive, then a Cracked Opalescent White Pyramid Ioun Stone is only 1,500 gp.

Nice. I will try to remember this one.


To those saying it will be a bunch of d6's eventually, no matter what -
"A weapon or attack that deals 1d10 points of damage increases as follows: 1d10, 2d8, 3d8, 4d8, 6d8, 8d8, 12d8."

To those saying 5.5 isn't a number you can roll; while technically correct, you're not talking about an individual roll, you are talking AVERAGES. Thus, over time, the 1d10 will have an average damage which is half a point higher PER ROLL than the 2d4. This means in the course of 100 rolls, the 1d10 weapon will be 50 points of damage higher, even if it is less 'consistent'.

Paizo Employee Design Manager

karossii wrote:


To those saying 5.5 isn't a number you can roll; while technically correct, you're not talking about an individual roll, you are talking AVERAGES. Thus, over time, the 1d10 will have an average damage which is half a point higher PER ROLL than the 2d4. This means in the course of 100 rolls, the 1d10 weapon will be 50 points of damage higher, even if it is less 'consistent'.

Plus there's always the fact that the nodachi has the brace weapon property, so if you're ever in a position to ready an attack against a charging opponent you've got a double damage option that the falchion completely lacks. The nodachi actually tip-toes right up against the line of being an exotic weapon as far as there aren't many other martial weapons with high damage die, high crit range, and a special weapon property that isn't "monk".

I find nodachis (nodachii?) are awesome for dealing with zombies. If they want to move and hit you they pretty much have to charge so you just stand ready to cleave them down.


Question wrote:

Basically a exotic Falchion that does 2d6 instead of 2d4 damage.

Does it exist?

I think the closest is the elven curve blade at 1d10?

Trying to come up with a crit weapon for a vital strike build...

This would kind-of sort-of be the best weapon in the game due to math I don't understand or something.

However, you can achieve this effect with larger weapons.
For example it scale goes (something) like this:
1d4, 1d6, 1d8, 2d4, 1d10, 1d12, 2d6, 2d8, 3d6.
I'm pretty sure d4s could be snuck in there, but I don't think they bother.
An Curved Blade, Elven at Medium size is 1d10 : 18-20/2x
If you make it LARGE it does 1d12 : 18-20/2x
if you make it HUGE it does 2d6 : 18-20/2x
It sounds like you want to use a HUGE version. However, keep in mind that you get a -2 penalty to hit for each size category difference. You could play a tiefling who has the ability to use large weapons so you only take a -2 to hit instead of -4.

However this does mean your damage would be:
-4 atk : 2d6 + (Dex [Agile]) (Str*1.5 [Normal]) : 18-20/2x.
If you make it Keen or have the appropriate feat then it is:
-4 atk : 2d6 + (Dex [Agile]) (Str*1.5 [Normal]) : 15-20/2x.

Good luck!


But im talking about actual world results. It doesnt matter if the average is 5.5 if you cant actually roll 5.5.

Oh you were referring to using a large one handed weapon with EWP. But you still get the -2 to attack rolls right?

Its possible zombies would be too stupid to charge though...

Also unless im missing something, a elven curve blade at 1d10 should go to 2d8 when large?

I just found a great option if you want to use vital strike.

Take the psionic class Aegis.

There are two 2 point customisations that give you powerful build and another that lets you treat the weapon you are wielding as one size larger.

Those two combined effectively give you two size increases. So with a greatsword you would have 4d6 base and 4d6 vital strike. You can also pick up +str customisations and use a belt of con for additional hp, which most melee martials cant do usually (as you would be limited to only the belt of str due to gold issues).

The downside is that your have a pretty low AC as the astral suit AC doesnt scale very well and you cant enchant it. You do get DR but thats pretty useless (giant hits you for 20+ damage, a few points of DR does nothing). Then again AC does nothing against the first one or two attacks anyway...


Stepping the damage up a die (as implied as an option by the second post itt) gives the nodachi 2d8 and the falchion 2d6.

Average and consistently better for a +2 weapon enchantment.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Just a little thing, but doesn't 2d8 scale up to 3d8? If it was consistent, it would be 4d6...but I am pretty sure it sticks with d8's...

Shadow Lodge

Rynjin wrote:
Question wrote:
? Its a cheap, low level buff that massively increases the damage of any martial character.

It's a cheap, low level buff, better spent on casting something like Haste which takes effect immediately, and actually IS a massive increase to damage.

Enlarge Person is a miniscule increase to damage (+1 damage from Str, yippee). All of its power comes from the Reach it grants.

It's solid as a potion, but nobody should ever be CASTING it in combat since the cast time is too long. It uses your whole turn to buff one guy.

it also increases the dice of the weapon (1d10 to 2d6 for example)

Silver Crusade

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Question wrote:
But im talking about actual world results. It doesnt matter if the average is 5.5 if you cant actually roll 5.5.

This is about understanding how science relates to the world you live in, and it makes me a little sad. Being unable to roll 5.5 on a die is not relevant to the information that statistic contains.

Put directly: 5.5 is a real world result. It is not a die roll.

The real world result is performance over time. A weapon with a higher average damage will do more damage in more fights over the career of a given character.

I believe what you mean to be saying is that you don't care about the highest average damage, not that more damage isn't more.


ErrantPursuit wrote:
Question wrote:
But im talking about actual world results. It doesnt matter if the average is 5.5 if you cant actually roll 5.5.

This is about understanding how science relates to the world you live in, and it makes me a little sad. Being unable to roll 5.5 on a die is not relevant to the information that statistic contains.

Put directly: 5.5 is a real world result. It is not a die roll.

The real world result is performance over time. A weapon with a higher average damage will do more damage in more fights over the career of a given character.

I believe what you mean to be saying is that you don't care about the highest average damage, not that more damage isn't more.

Exactly. Having a 5.5 means that compared to 5.0 the 5.5 weapon will more likely do more damage using an equal number of rolls making it the better weapon.


ErrantPursuit wrote:
Question wrote:
But im talking about actual world results. It doesnt matter if the average is 5.5 if you cant actually roll 5.5.
This is about understanding how science relates to the world you live in, and it makes me a little sad. Being unable to roll 5.5 on a die is not relevant to the information that statistic contains.

Tsk. this isn't science. This is applied mathematics. Stop conflating them.

I am joking, rather than berating here.


Taku Ooka Nin wrote:

This would kind-of sort-of be the best weapon in the game due to math I don't understand or something.

However, you can achieve this effect with larger weapons.
For example it scale goes (something) like this:
1d4, 1d6, 1d8, 2d4, 1d10, 1d12, 2d6, 2d8, 3d6.
I'm pretty sure d4s could be snuck in there, but I don't think they bother.
An Curved Blade, Elven at Medium size is 1d10 : 18-20/2x
If you make it LARGE it does 1d12 : 18-20/2x
if you make it HUGE it does 2d6 : 18-20/2x
It sounds like you want to use a HUGE version. However, keep in mind that you get a -2 penalty to hit for each size category difference. You could play a tiefling who has the ability to use large weapons so you only take a -2 to hit instead of -4.

However this does mean your damage would be:
-4 atk : 2d6 + (Dex [Agile]) (Str*1.5 [Normal]) : 18-20/2x.
If you make it Keen or have the appropriate feat then it is:
-4 atk : 2d6 + (Dex [Agile]) (Str*1.5 [Normal]) : 15-20/2x.

Good luck!

Actually, your numbers are a bit base there. THIS LINK shows the actual progressions.

Damage dice increase as follows: 1d2, 1d3, 1d4, 1d6, 1d8, 2d6, 3d6, 4d6, 6d6, 8d6, 12d6.

-and-

A weapon or attack that deals 1d10 points of damage increases as follows: 1d10, 2d8, 3d8, 4d8, 6d8, 8d8, 12d8.

Size increases never give 2d4 or 1d12, and 2d6 doesn't increase to 2d8 (1d10 does), and so on...


For those curious, the average damage of size increases is thus;

1d2=1.5 (base) [base]
1d3=2 (+0.5) [+33.33%]
1d4=2.5 (+0.5) [+25%]
1d6=3.5 (+1) [+40%]
1d8=4.5 (+1) [+28.57%]
2d6=7 (+2.5) [+55.56%]
3d6=10.5 (+3.5) [+50%]
4d6=14 (+3.5) [+33.33%]
6d6=21 (+7) [+50%]
8d6=28 (+7) [+33.33%]
12d6=42 (+14) [+50%]

a bit of an odd curve there. the d10 line is a slight bit better;

1d10=5.5 (base) [base]
2d8=9 (+3.5) [+63.64%]
3d8=13.5 (+4.5) [+50%]
4d8=18 (+4.5) [+33.33%]
6d8=27 (+9) [+50%]
8d8=36 (+9) [+33.33%]
12d8=54 (+18) [+50%]

Personally, I think there is a much smoother progression possible. But, I wasn't consulted, so...

Grand Lodge

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Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
bfobar wrote:
If you have exotic weapon proficiency bastard sword, it counts as a one handed weapon. Seems silly, but the pathfinder iconic barbarian does it.

Actually she doesn't. She still needs two hands to wield the blade and takes the -2 size penalty, which she offsets (not cancels) with the bonuses she gets from raging.

Without the exotic weapon proficiency she would not be able to wield it AT ALL.


LazarX wrote:
bfobar wrote:
If you have exotic weapon proficiency bastard sword, it counts as a one handed weapon. Seems silly, but the pathfinder iconic barbarian does it.

Actually she doesn't. She still needs two hands to wield the blade and takes the -2 size penalty, which she offsets (not cancels) with the bonuses she gets from raging.

Without the exotic weapon proficiency she would not be able to wield it AT ALL.

You two are both saying the same thing.

She uses a Large One-handed weapon in two hands at a -2 penalty. She is able to do this because when the proficiency, you treat Bastard Swords as one-handed weapons.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Doomed Hero wrote:
LazarX wrote:
bfobar wrote:
If you have exotic weapon proficiency bastard sword, it counts as a one handed weapon. Seems silly, but the pathfinder iconic barbarian does it.

Actually she doesn't. She still needs two hands to wield the blade and takes the -2 size penalty, which she offsets (not cancels) with the bonuses she gets from raging.

Without the exotic weapon proficiency she would not be able to wield it AT ALL.

You two are both saying the same thing.

She uses a Large One-handed weapon in two hands at a -2 penalty. She is able to do this because when the proficiency, you treat Bastard Swords as one-handed weapons.

The language that bfobar used though, implied that Amiri could wield it with one hand, which she can't.


I just found the Fullblade in the Arms & Equipment guide from 3.0.

It is an exotic two handed weapon that does 2d8 19-20x2. If translated to Pathfinder and if principle holds true there could be an Eastern version of this weapon that has the 2d6 18-20x2 statistics that you desire.


master_marshmallow wrote:

I just found the Fullblade in the Arms & Equipment guide from 3.0.

It is an exotic two handed weapon that does 2d8 19-20x2. If translated to Pathfinder and if principle holds true there could be an Eastern version of this weapon that has the 2d6 18-20x2 statistics that you desire.

in the pre-errata versions of complete warrior for 3.5 from earlier printings you had the following 3 elven weapons. all of which where exotic, but could be used without the proficiency as long as your were proficient in one of the sister weapons. without penalty, however, proficiency also gave them a special benefit if you had both the weapon finesse feat and the exotic proficiency for the elven blade weapon weapon being used, dexterity bonus to damage rolls instead of strength bonus which stacked with the Champion of Corellon's ability

Elven Lightblade, 1d6, 18-20x2 slashing or piercing, martial, light weapon, counts as rapier or shortsword whenever beneficial. 50GP

Elven Thinblade, 1d8, 18-20x2, finessable, counts as longsword or rapier when beneficial, finesseable slashing or piercing, counts as light for 2WF penalties 100GP

Elven CourtBlade, also known as Elven greatblade, 2d6, 18-20x2, slashing or piercing, counts as Greatsword or Rapier whenever beneficial, finesseable, 2handed, +2 to sunder and disarm, +2 to resist sunder and disarm. 2x Dex to damage if both proficient and possess weapon finesse AND Power Attack. 150 GP pricetag

essentially, proficiency was optional, unless you wanted the Dex to Damage option, and well, these were a nice way to get them


Taku Ooka Nin wrote:
Question wrote:

Basically a exotic Falchion that does 2d6 instead of 2d4 damage.

Does it exist?

I think the closest is the elven curve blade at 1d10?

Trying to come up with a crit weapon for a vital strike build...

This would kind-of sort-of be the best weapon in the game due to math I don't understand or something.

However, you can achieve this effect with larger weapons.
For example it scale goes (something) like this:
1d4, 1d6, 1d8, 2d4, 1d10, 1d12, 2d6, 2d8, 3d6.
I'm pretty sure d4s could be snuck in there, but I don't think they bother.
An Curved Blade, Elven at Medium size is 1d10 : 18-20/2x
If you make it LARGE it does 1d12 : 18-20/2x
if you make it HUGE it does 2d6 : 18-20/2x
It sounds like you want to use a HUGE version. However, keep in mind that you get a -2 penalty to hit for each size category difference. You could play a tiefling who has the ability to use large weapons so you only take a -2 to hit instead of -4.

However this does mean your damage would be:
-4 atk : 2d6 + (Dex [Agile]) (Str*1.5 [Normal]) : 18-20/2x.
If you make it Keen or have the appropriate feat then it is:
-4 atk : 2d6 + (Dex [Agile]) (Str*1.5 [Normal]) : 15-20/2x.

Good luck!

The damage progression goes: 1d10, 2d8, 3d8, 4d8, 6d8, 8d8, 12d8

You CANNOT use a large or huge elven curve blade - it is a two handed medium weapon. Enlarge person enlarges it along with you and there is no attack penalty (other than you being a large character and getting a -1). Lead blades makes it do damage as if one size larger than it is: so the two would stack to give 3d8 base dice.

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