Sorry, but I don't want to buy books with 50%+ reprinted material again.Did that include the PF CRB?
Oh, oh dear. . . the PF CRB is closer to 80 or 90% reprinted material. . . a few new abilities on all the same classes, a handful of new feats, redoing a handful of mechanics and one section of the combat rules, then changing a handful of words in spells but printing basically the same spells and same magic items?
PF CRB was way way more than 50% reprinted material. Fortunately the Advanced Players Guide was all new. . .
|
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
Considering that PFRPG was originally built on a customer base that were holdovers from and discontented with the 3.5e->4e transition and how it is built on the 3.5e OGL, I think anyone that thinks the hypothetical PF2e is going to be a dramatically and fundamentally different game and/or will toss away the OGL is not being realistic.
Paizo didn't jump on the 4e bandwagon because it didn't allow them to tell the stories they wanted to tell the way they wanted to tell them, yet 3.5e did.
Paizo has also, on several occasions, paid homage to various old school aspects of the game for no other reason than those were old school aspects and they thought those aspects were cool and wanted to show props.
-Skeld
|
To be clear - if they do start losing money and if they think PF2 is going to stop that, then I'm all for it. I just dont buy the inevitability argument that often crops up.
Call me a cynic now yet I think a product eventually needs to be replaced. Not saying that PF needs to anytime soon. I do think that eventually they will run out of new material to release. Even with the APS. How many APs does one person need. Were starting to see it with the Bestiaries imo. What is the difference between a ocean or River giant again. A hill, cave or mountain Troll again. They still have a lot of material to offer. I wish they would do a environment series. Or new campaign settings. Getting tired of just Golarian specific stuff. I'm nito sure if the Stategy guide is going to be wroth it.
Considering that PFRPG was originally built on a customer base that were holdovers from and discontented with the 3.5e->4e transition and how it is built on the 3.5e OGL, I think anyone that thinks the hypothetical PF2e is going to be a dramatically and fundamentally different game and/or will toss away the OGL is not being realistic.
Good luck to Paizo on trying to sell a second edition with no changes and with mostly rehashed material a second time around. It's not going to do as well imo. Unlike the current version there is not going to be a 4E that drives 3.5 fans away from Wotc to Paizo. With no major changes fans will stick with 3.5 and the current edition of Paizo. I can understand and respect not wanting to see anything change. Tradition and keeping the spirit of the rpg is all fine and well. It's not going to be enough for me to spend 100-120$ a second time around.
So you bought it and no longer wish to do such a thing again? Or you saw what it was and refused to buy it?
I bought it. Eventually. But that doesn't mean I want to buy another book with that much reprinted material again.
What was the original point of this thread again? I've forgotten.
I think it had something to do with pigmies. Or maybe rubik's cubes.
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Call me a cynic now yet I think a product eventually needs to be replaced. Not saying that PF needs to anytime soon. I do think that eventually they will run out of new material to release. Even with the APS. How many APs does one person need. Were starting to see it with the Bestiaries imo. What is the difference between a ocean or River giant again. A hill, cave or mountain Troll again. They still have a lot of material to offer. I wish they would do a environment series. Or new campaign settings. Getting tired of just Golarian specific stuff. I'm nito sure if the Stategy guide is going to be wroth it.
To be clear - if they do start losing money and if they think PF2 is going to stop that, then I'm all for it. I just dont buy the inevitability argument that often crops up.
They could make APs forever and I wont need a PF2. Also like you point out there is so much good material to use here why are you so eager to hit the reset button?
Which ttrpg companies don't eventually write new editions, or go under before they can?
I reject the implicit assumption that, without producing a new edition, Paizo will not remain profitable into the future. The only argument I've seen as to why "A new edition is inevitable" have been from people pointing to other companies who don't have that model.The most successful one is still doing fine on its first edition.
The point being that the ones that do ride the edition treadmill are companies for whom the rules are the predominant profit-driver. That's not Paizo's business model (or wasnt anyway - maybe things have changed).
Being in the same industry isnt the right basis of comparison, it's business models that matter.
What, you mean Paizo? If you say so.
Anyway, sure, Paizo is more focused on adventures than WotC -- but I can't help but think there are other ttrpg companies also not focused on rules. White Wolf comes to mind as having a big focus on story rather than rules. And so far as I know, all those companies all eventually print new editions.
I mean, hey, I could be wrong. Maybe you're right and PF will be the Monopoly of ttrpgs even in 4047, when we all ascend to time-space godhood with the aid of Federation technology. But PF the first is only six years old, so those look like long odds indeed.
|
|
They could make APs forever.
I'm not sure forver. I think that sales will drop on the aps after a certain point. How many aps does one person need? 10,20 30 whern does it end.
Also like you point out there is so much good material to use here why are you so eager to hit the reset button?
Never said I was eager for a reset button. There is room for improvement and possibly change on some elements of the game. Maybe major or minor who knows.
|
|
They could make APs forever.
I'm not sure forver. I think that sales will drop on the aps after a certain point. How many aps does one person need? 10,20 30 whern does it end.
Never said I was eager for a reset button. There is room for improvement and possibly change on some elements of the game. Maybe major or minor who knows.
Also like you point out there is so much good material to use here why are you so eager to hit the reset button?
There are infinite ideas for APs and I love em even those I don't care for like Iron Gods cause I know its making somebodys day. I have over a decade of experience with 3E I know how to fine tune it. Last thing I want is a mess I have to learn all over again to get to play right. No offense but when people say improvements and don't provide a single example I tend to doubt their reasoning.
To be clear - if they do start losing money and if they think PF2 is going to stop that, then I'm all for it. I just dont buy the inevitability argument that often crops up.Call me a cynic now yet I think a product eventually needs to be replaced.
Yeah, you're not alone. Also, we might be having a semantic argument. I'm really speaking about a PF prior to 2020 (or similar). I dont have any confidence as to how gaming culture is going to look after that.
Not saying that PF needs to anytime soon. I do think that eventually they will run out of new material to release. Even with the APS. How many APs does one person need. Were starting to see it with the Bestiaries imo. What is the difference between a ocean or River giant again. A hill, cave or mountain Troll again. They still have a lot of material to offer. I wish they would do a environment series. Or new campaign settings. Getting tired of just Golarian specific stuff. I'm nito sure if the Stategy guide is going to be wroth it.
We're way past "what one person needs" already, imo. Nonetheless, everything is selling fine. The fact is that, with RPG supplements, nothing is "needed" it's all luxury products. People seem to like buying more than they'll use.
The fact some people eventually get jaded/saturated/bored/etcetera is balanced at least to some degree by the enthusiastic late adopters - note that they're still reprinting CRBs every year and a half or so. That indicates a thriving market of newcomers to me.
What, you mean Paizo? If you say so.Which ttrpg companies don't eventually write new editions, or go under before they can?
I reject the implicit assumption that, without producing a new edition, Paizo will not remain profitable into the future. The only argument I've seen as to why "A new edition is inevitable" have been from people pointing to other companies who don't have that model.The most successful one is still doing fine on its first edition.
The point being that the ones that do ride the edition treadmill are companies for whom the rules are the predominant profit-driver. That's not Paizo's business model (or wasnt anyway - maybe things have changed).
Being in the same industry isnt the right basis of comparison, it's business models that matter.
Yeah. Is it a controversial view that they're still doing fine with their first edition?
Anyway, sure, Paizo is more focused on adventures than WotC -- but I can't help but think there are other ttrpg companies also not focused on rules. White Wolf comes to mind as having a big focus on story rather than rules. And so far as I know, all those companies all eventually print new editions.
I mean, hey, I could be wrong. Maybe you're right and PF will be the Monopoly of ttrpgs even in 4047, when we all ascend to time-space godhood with the aid of Federation technology. But PF the first is only six years old, so those look like long odds indeed.
Sure. In case it wasnt clear, I was not intending to imply my views would remain true until 4047. I was suggesting that "other companies have seen the need to produce new editions" was not a good argument for Paizo doing so.
"Maybe I'm right" doesnt really relate to whether Paizo eventually produce a new edition. I'm commenting on the argument, not the likelihood.
|
|
I don't expect to see much in the near future other than a revised core rule book. The rules FAQ is starting to get a little long and there's a few things in the current CRB that don't fit all that well anymore in the direction that game has evolved. (Not to mention missing tables that ended up having to be printed in other books.)
If there are any major rule changes they will likely be piloted in other books first.
I would really like the steal maneuver to be reworked so that it's like feinting and scales off the obvious skill that it is suppose to.
|
Which ttrpg companies don't eventually write new editions, or go under before they can?The most successful one is still doing fine on its first edition.
Perhaps, but Paizo has made more substantial changes to its system in five years via "errata" between different printings than Chaosium has made in over 30 years across six editions of Call of Cthulhu.
I'm just wondering how many books they can possibly manage to squeeze out of the RPG line after Ultimate Bloat...er....Advanced Class Guide.
Still waiting for Ultimate Scoundrel/Skill
I'm just wondering how many books they can possibly manage to squeeze out of the RPG line after Ultimate Bloat...er....Advanced Class Guide.
Personally I'm (quite seriously) rooting for the "Ultimate Chef" cookbook in the Campaign Setting series.
I'm just wondering how many books they can possibly manage to squeeze out of the RPG line after Ultimate Bloat...er....Advanced Class Guide.Still waiting for Ultimate Scoundrel/Skill
I want a divine book, channeling and stuff could totally be expanded upon.
|
|
1
Perhaps, but Paizo has made more substantial changes to its system in five years via "errata" between different printings than Chaosium has made in over 30 years across six editions of Call of Cthulhu.
Good point. Yet the seventh edition of CoC is supposed to be different from previous editions so it goes to show even Chaosium is willing to change their rules. A 2E by 2020. Not 2045. I don't want to try a new rpg when I'm 70 years old and in a retirement home.
|
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Good point. Yet the seventh edition of CoC is supposed to be different from previous editions so it goes to show even Chaosium is willing to change their rules. A 2E by 2020. Not 2045. I don't want to try a new rpg when I'm 70 years old and in a retirement home.1
Perhaps, but Paizo has made more substantial changes to its system in five years via "errata" between different printings than Chaosium has made in over 30 years across six editions of Call of Cthulhu.
I hope i'm not in a home at 70, but if I am, trying PF2 is exactly what I hope to be doing!
I hope i'm not in a home at 70, but if I am, trying PF2 is exactly what I hope to be doing!Good point. Yet the seventh edition of CoC is supposed to be different from previous editions so it goes to show even Chaosium is willing to change their rules. A 2E by 2020. Not 2045. I don't want to try a new rpg when I'm 70 years old and in a retirement home.1
Perhaps, but Paizo has made more substantial changes to its system in five years via "errata" between different printings than Chaosium has made in over 30 years across six editions of Call of Cthulhu.
Not sure if I hope to be doing that, I just hope to be capable of doing that :)
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
Perhaps, but Paizo has made more substantial changes to its system in five years via "errata" between different printings than Chaosium has made in over 30 years across six editions of Call of Cthulhu.
Which ttrpg companies don't eventually write new editions, or go under before they can?The most successful one is still doing fine on its first edition.
Yeah, and it's working well for them. That's my point. They're doing it differently than WotC did it, they're doing it differently than Chaosium did it. It's working and although I suspect that they'll eventually decide to do something different, I dont see any argument for inevitibility.
I'm just wondering how many books they can possibly manage to squeeze out of the RPG line after Ultimate Bloat...er....Advanced Class Guide.
My guess would be three per year (including Bestiaries and NPC Codices). You and I may not like lots of rules, but it's proving a popular model.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Yeah, and it's working well for them.Perhaps, but Paizo has made more substantial changes to its system in five years via "errata" between different printings than Chaosium has made in over 30 years across six editions of Call of Cthulhu.
Which ttrpg companies don't eventually write new editions, or go under before they can?The most successful one is still doing fine on its first edition.
Debatedly. Mounted Combat was or still is(Im not sure which) broken for years due to errata. They've had incredibly controversial errata that has caused serious curiosities about the design philosophy backing Pathfinder.
"Working Well" isn't a term I would have used.
Yeah, and it's working well for them.Debatedly. Mounted Combat was or still is(Im not sure which) broken for years due to errata. They've had incredibly controversial errata that has caused serious curiosities about the design philosophy backing Pathfinder.
"Working Well" isn't a term I would have used.
The game having issues doesn't mean that they aren't turning a profit.
Hm, that is the danger of sticking mostly to the AP messageboards and being sick. Totally missed this thread.
Let's see:
- Large revisions to the magic item crafting system, to make it a customization tool, instead of a money making mill. Also, something to combat the way that all rewards will be converted into new magic bling to buy.
- Reduce the dependency on magic items overall.
- Fixes to high-level gaming (i.e. everything after level 10), to make it less weighed in favor of the players (which it indisputably is at the moment, compared to the low-level game) and less of a book-keeping nightmare for GM's.
- No revisions to alignment and prepared casting. Those are staples of D&D/Pathfinder. :) Also, no big revisions to the Paladin, it is about perfect right now.
- Fixing Monks/Rogues/Fighters.
- Re-write the remaining SoD spells to be more in line with the already re-written ones like Finger of Death or Disintegrate, re-write the SoS spells that they are less crippling overall. Player characters are good enough already, they don't need to cripple the bad action economy of their opponents any further.
- Some fixes to the skill system. Perception is the most important skill in the game, why doesn't every class have it as a class skill? Diplomacy is also extremely important and maybe too good. Climb/Swim still should be combined to remove clutter. Some class skill lists have strange omissions (no Acrobatics on the Ranger, but on the Barbarian?) or are very bad (Fighter).
And that is what I can think of early in the morning with a still ongoing bronchitis.
The game having issues doesn't mean that they aren't turning a profit.
Yeah, and it's working well for them.Debatedly. Mounted Combat was or still is(Im not sure which) broken for years due to errata. They've had incredibly controversial errata that has caused serious curiosities about the design philosophy backing Pathfinder.
"Working Well" isn't a term I would have used.
I was speaking in regards to the effectiveness of their errata/FAQ which have led to many proclamations of "Well I'm not gonna run it like that" and "Wow awesome proliferation of the caster martial disparity" to paraphrase.
I believe 5th edition looming in the future is the reason this and other threads have been more prevalent recently.
I believe that the circumstance that the majority of us have gone through the "new edition" mill three times already has given us a sense of timing when it looks like a new edition may be just not visible yet on the horizon, but coming. :p
Although I've been saying that for two years, so what do I know? ^^
I'm super late to the party on this one, but there's only two things I want;
1. The book split into smaller books that don't break. All the time. My ONLY real gripe with the damned thing is the binding can't support the weight of the book.
2. Crafting Magic Items needs to go as a codified system. I know, the hordes will hate that - but think about it - they don't even use it in PFS. It's pure power gaming munchkin nonsense.
They could make APs forever.
I'm not sure forver. I think that sales will drop on the aps after a certain point. How many aps does one person need? 10,20 30 whern does it end.
Never said I was eager for a reset button. There is room for improvement and possibly change on some elements of the game. Maybe major or minor who knows.
Also like you point out there is so much good material to use here why are you so eager to hit the reset button?
Not every AP caters to every group, and there are plenty of subjects that haven't been touched on yet which would attract buyers. Also some groups blow through APs in a few months, so their is a steady demand.
For that matter, I usually buy APs for the support articles, and I am sure a lot of people do as well.
As far as I know, the Paizo subscription model is still very successful for the company, and I don't see them running out of ideas for quite a few years yet
I believe 5th edition looming in the future is the reason this and other threads have been more prevalent recently.I believe that the circumstance that the majority of us have gone through the "new edition" mill three times already has given us a sense of timing when it looks like a new edition may be just not visible yet on the horizon, but coming. :p
Although I've been saying that for two years, so what do I know? ^^
I wanna say some of the Paizo folks in an old thread from a few years back said they felt they were somewhere "midway" through the cycle before a revision might be considered. So I would say we are still a bit far away (3 years?). And that probably is highly dependent on sales and how 5E does.
(This is all based on foggy memory and I can't guarantee any accuracy with these statements...)
-Streamlined and updated skills. I wanna see some super-human feats you can accomplish with skill checks. Preferably BEFORE Epic/Mythic/Whatever, starting a round 10th level. 30 foot jumps, super speedy climbing, Sense Motive so good it's almost like mind reading, stuff like that.
-A paring down of spells that obsolete skills, or a reworking of them. Spider Climb giving a bonus on Climb Checks, or a Climb Speed based on your Climb ranks rather than a flat "Yep, no reason to take Climb".
-More specialized casters. Rather than having each casting class basically be able to do everything in one build, make them choose a bit. Increase spells per day and spells known, but limit acquiring spells outside your area of expertise. Boost the less desirable magic schools (like Illusion) so this is viable.
-Fighters need more skills and more options besides "Whack it good Jeb". Give them some unique skill usages (like Sense Motive as an Enemy Scanner type deal, able to gauge an enemy's fighting prowess by looking at them, for instance), and something that gives them more flexibility among their weapon groups. Perhaps letting them re-orient their Weapon Training groups every 24 hours, for starters, and making Martial Versatility a base class feature (or at LEAST not human only).
-Monks need more focus. It has a lot of abilities but few of them work well together (and many even preclude the use of others, such as Fast Movement and Flurry). Strip it to its bare bones (Fast Movement, Unarmed Strike, AC Bonus, Ki Pool) and let them pick and choose abilities from there, ala Qinggong. Do you want a Monk who can Teleport to an enemy (Abundant Step), hit their vital points to incapacitate them (Stunning Fist), while unleashing a never ending barrage of fists (Flurry)? Do you want the consummate martial artist, able to acquire and assimilate many forms of fighting (Fuse Styles), performing Wuxia style jumps and falls (High Jump...but this still needs a boost, and Slow Fall, also), with the occasional ability to shoot fire from his hands (Elemental Fist, or maybe the Scorching Ray Qinggong power)? Something else? Also give them full BaB instead of this pseudo full BaB except where it would actually help them nonsense.
-Rogues need to be the king of skills, not necessarily in quantity, but in quality. Faster access to the aforementioned super-human feats of skill, unique combat related skill uses (especially Feinting, needs to be a viable class option from level 1 to make Sneak Attack worthwhile, and fixes their to-hit issue as well), things like that.
-Abolishment of unnecessarily long Feat chains. Whirlwind Attack. Seriously, WTF. Why is Vital Strike 3 Feats, with even more (Devastating Strike) necessary to take full advantage of all of them?
-As a complement to the above, abolish a lot of Feats and make them standard options. Power Attack as a core feature anyone can take advantage of, Improved Maneuver Feats gone, and so on.
A few other things but that's most of the big ones.
|
|
I'm super late to the party on this one, but there's only two things I want;
1. The book split into smaller books that don't break. All the time. My ONLY real gripe with the damned thing is the binding can't support the weight of the book.
2. Crafting Magic Items needs to go as a codified system. I know, the hordes will hate that - but think about it - they don't even use it in PFS. It's pure power gaming munchkin nonsense.
Naaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaate!!!!!!!!!!!!!
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
Call me a cynic now yet I think a product eventually needs to be replaced. Not saying that PF needs to anytime soon. I do think that eventually they will run out of new material to release. Even with the APS. How many APs does one person need. Were starting to see it with the Bestiaries imo. What is the difference between a ocean or River giant again. A hill, cave or mountain Troll again. They still have a lot of material to offer. I wish they would do a environment series. Or new campaign settings. Getting tired of just Golarian specific stuff. I'm nito sure if the Stategy guide is going to be wroth it.
I think AP's could theoretically go until they run out of ideas. Seeing that people are still writing novels, they could theoretically go on forever.
I suppose they could just write until they've written an AP for every nation and major city in each nation on Golarion as well as all the planets in the system until they are finished...I expect that STILL will take a VERY long time.
Personally, the AP's are what keep me interested in PF and are the most fascinating part about PF to me.
Yeah, and it's working well for them.Perhaps, but Paizo has made more substantial changes to its system in five years via "errata" between different printings than Chaosium has made in over 30 years across six editions of Call of Cthulhu.
Which ttrpg companies don't eventually write new editions, or go under before they can?The most successful one is still doing fine on its first edition.
Debatedly. Mounted Combat was or still is(Im not sure which) broken for years due to errata. They've had incredibly controversial errata that has caused serious curiosities about the design philosophy backing Pathfinder.
"Working Well" isn't a term I would have used.
We were speaking purely of the commercial aspects. There's lots of differing opinions about paizo's rules and FAQ process. I haven't seen many suggest the company isn't doing well though.
We were speaking purely of the commercial aspects. There's lots of differing opinions about paizo's rules and FAQ process. I haven't seen many suggest the company isn't doing well though.Yeah, and it's working well for them.Perhaps, but Paizo has made more substantial changes to its system in five years via "errata" between different printings than Chaosium has made in over 30 years across six editions of Call of Cthulhu.
Which ttrpg companies don't eventually write new editions, or go under before they can?The most successful one is still doing fine on its first edition.
Debatedly. Mounted Combat was or still is(Im not sure which) broken for years due to errata. They've had incredibly controversial errata that has caused serious curiosities about the design philosophy backing Pathfinder.
"Working Well" isn't a term I would have used.
Paizo's errata has nothing to do with it's commercial success imo.
I don't want it to be named numerically.
Call it A'pathfinder or something.
Streamlined system for high level attacks, I think the reason that martial classes fall behind at higher levels is because the iterative attack system is really old. It needs to be modernised. I for one like the train of thought behind vital strike and would like to see it implemented as part of the core rules, not as a feat.
Feats subsumed into core rules. Feats that replace ability scores for skill effects or attack rolls, along with several feats which enable attack bonus trade offs (power attack and combat expertise) should be subsumed into the core rules as on/off toggles that any class can do.
Supernatural and extraordinary feats. Around 12th level the character has gone beyond humanity anyway, why not make options for spell resistance, regeneration or frightful precense available?
Alternate multi classing system. Something that supports spellcaster multi classing. It might be as easy as just making a few feats.
Expanded trap rules. I need cr guidelines and effect rules for including each of the combat maneuvers as trap effects. I've found that traps that cause conditions and penalties are vastly more fun and interactive than ones that cause damage. On that note I want a trap bestiary.
Someone mentioned things he wants to stay, so I will too:
Bab. Saves. Core rulebook classes. Classes in general. Feats. Cr/APL/EL. Current monster creation rules
All of the above are necessary to make pathfinder "pathfinder".
The monster creation rules in particular are the literal heart and soul of 3.x. I believe that a key downfall of 4.0 was that it suffered a severe lack of DM friendly systems.
By taking away a well grounded encounter design system they completely alienated a lot of dm's and said dm's simply bunkered down in 3.5 and ignored 4.0 altogether, and then pathfinder came along :).
They key to succeed in this industry is to appeal to GM's. The number of players playing the game directly correlates to the number of GM's running games, strong GM tools makes for confident GM's.
The systems in ultimate campaign are good, but the truly useful stuff is the systems you can use in encounter design.
Haunts were a superb addition. Can you include them in the core dm package? Perhaps right next to traps.
The monster creation rules in particular are the literal heart and soul of 3.x. I believe that a key downfall of 4.0 was that it suffered a severe lack of DM friendly systems.
By taking away a well grounded encounter design system they completely alienated a lot of dm's and said dm's simply bunkered down in 3.5 and ignored 4.0 altogether, and then pathfinder came along :).
Monster creation was actually super well done in 4e. The statblocks are really nice and you can fine tune and reflavor them easily.
In the 5e playtest, it inherited the nicely organized monster statblocks from 4e.
Paizo's errata has nothing to do with it's commercial success imo.We were speaking purely of the commercial aspects. There's lots of differing opinions about paizo's rules and FAQ process. I haven't seen many suggest the company isn't doing well though.Yeah, and it's working well for them.Perhaps, but Paizo has made more substantial changes to its system in five years via "errata" between different printings than Chaosium has made in over 30 years across six editions of Call of Cthulhu.
Which ttrpg companies don't eventually write new editions, or go under before they can?The most successful one is still doing fine on its first edition.
Debatedly. Mounted Combat was or still is(Im not sure which) broken for years due to errata. They've had incredibly controversial errata that has caused serious curiosities about the design philosophy backing Pathfinder.
"Working Well" isn't a term I would have used.
Exactly.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
What was the original point of this thread again? I've forgotten.I think it had something to do with pigmies. Or maybe rubik's cubes.
Let's have a positive thread. . . .
The point is Tequila Sunrise was trolling. Everyone knows it is Completely, Totally, and Categorically Impossible to have a positive discussion on the Interwebs. :)
|
|
This is becoming a 4e discussion which treads dangerously but I'd like to add something to this that I keep hearing that's getting old.
"Well nothing says you can't RP and this and that in 4e". 4e is fine for what it is, but accept it for what it is.
What do you mean by that? For me, accepting 4e for what it is means accepting it as a roleplaying game. Maybe one that is quite crunchy, and one that has a strong focus on combat, but no more so than Pathfinder; especially when comparing to RPGs in general including games like Call of Cthulhu, Don't Rest Your Head or Fate.
I think 4e provides some great advice and tools to support roleplaying:
I have quoted the 4e DMG in discussions about Call of Cthulhu & Trail of Cthulhu and the problems creating investigative scenarios.
Having never been interested in playing Wizards in 3.5 or PF, the idea of At Will powers and always prepped cantrips immediately conjured up cool ways to narrate roleplaying actions. E.g. sitting at a table in a tavern and with a waive of a hand lighting the candles - something that in 3.5 would have required prepping and expending a cantrip, and in PF still requires prepping of the cantrip, which would probably mean that narrative flourish wouldn't take place.
I have run entire sessions of 4e with no combat,but instead challenges involving tracking, investigation and negotiations - and I got help from the mechanics that 4e provides.
Backgrounds & the Background Bonus (PHB2) means that you can play a character who has a background of being a blacksmith and have the mechanics back that up - whereas in PF putting more than a couple of ranks into a Profession skill is often seen as a sub-optimal choice (especially when there are other skills like Perception and Stealth) meaning many characters can't mechanically back up the claim of having been an accomplished blacksmith.
And despite some of the bad press it has received the Skill Challenge mechanic actually provides some extra mechanical support for stuff like investigations, explorations, social interactions etc over and above simple skill use (which 4e also has). I find Skill Challenges encourage players to come up with ingenious ways to play to their character's strengths, and have all characters get involved rather than leaving the diplomacy to the one character.
It is interesting that more than a couple of suggestions of what to do in PF2 are things that 4e actually did. Paizo may want to take a look at 4e and see what stuff it did well and perhaps learn from that.