The rogue can not be good at figthing because that woudl be umbalancing taking into account his skill points and trapfinding. But the bard, the inquisitor, the ranger, the wizard, the magus can totally shine on both, including be better out of combat thann the rogue.
The fighter can not have more skill points because that woudl be umalacing taking into account the huge advantage he have in combat. Except that suchh advantage do not exist, and every other class have recieved a lot of power creep since core. And of course, everyone else have more out of combat utility.
That was entirely eloquent, and well argued. Henceforth I shall neither play rogues or fighters. Fighter/rogues though, are still open for discussion. :)
I'm just surprised he left out monks...
To me monks have a separate set of issues from rogues and fighters.
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In my experience, fighter/rogue cross-class characters are actually pretty solid builds when done correctly. Just get some form of medium armor made out of mithral and, with a high dex. score and a couple magic items, they're actully fairly hard to hit. Their only downside is their terrible will saves. However, with the right feats (ex. Iron Will), this can easily be fixed.
I'm just surprised he left out monks...
Well, they have rised the power level of monks by a lot since core. it is enough? perhaps or prhaps not, but the problem with monk was noticed.
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When you start posting questions like these in obviously the incorrect fora, it starts to look like you're trying to get around other people's filters.
Given that there are dozens of other threads with the same message and tone...
...one begins to suspect flamebait.
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I agree that rogues are not easily played in combat as other classes, however this does not make them poor fighters? you obviously are not playing the character as it was intended, not to mention that there is much more to the game than combat. As a player who plays primarily rogue/ninja classes I couldn't disagree more. In fact i believe many of the magical classes are over-powered and need to be down graded a bit to make i fair for the other classes. Plus if we really wanted the cake, we'd just steal yours.
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Because cake is for real classes, not those filthy mundanes. /sneer
Mundanes are good for nothing but being glorified NPC classes. They're not SUPPOSED to be good, magic is SUPPOSED to be better at all times. /stellargamedesign
On the rogue thing, blame 3.5. PF inherited its structural issues from there. Ignoring odd (and clearly not-designed-around) splash-weapon builds and stuff, the rogue actually got a TON of sweet stuff in PF - nearly-feat-equivalent goodies every other level and expanded SA targeting - but the class was in such a deep, deep, massive hole coming out of 3.5 that giving it a little boost didn't get it above water. (There's also been some niche-erosion, but that's a good thing; it shouldn't be the case that there's a bad class that serves as a tax the party has to pay because it's the only way to get some important feature.)
Fighter issue is separate. It hasn't gotten the help that most other classes have because there's fewer natural extension points for boosting the fighter - basically just fighter archetypes and things that explicitly say "fighters only!" on them. When you're schtick is that you're only allowed to do things if everybody is allowed to do them, it's easy to get outpaced.
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To me monks have a separate set of issues from rogues and fighters.
Word. The Fighter's issue is that there's only one thing he's good at, and the higher his level the more he becomes reliant on everyone else to help him keep doing it.
The Rogue's problem is that he had one thing he was good at, and now there's a bunch of other people who can do it as or near as well while still being better at a wide swath of other things.
The Monk's problem is that the core class doesn't know what the hell it's supposed to be doing. It's mobile, but only has a chance at being effective in combat when it's standing still. It's got great defenses, but usually at the cost of doing other stuff. It can talk to all living things, but isn't sure why that matters. Plus it can fall really slow.
One guy's too focused and isn't well-rounded enough, one guy thinks he's well-rounded but can't actually point to something he's singularly good at, and one guy's too well-rounded and could use some more focus.
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