What are the most effective scouting techniques?


Advice

Scarab Sages

Scouting ahead wins fights. Knowing where and what enemies are lets you build a plan, pre buff and get a free turn at the start of combat.

The only problem is that the Scouty classes sometimes roll low and get seen (also stealthing everywhere slows the whole party down). Using spells can ‘scout’ more effectively, but most of them tend to be one-shot deals or min/level duration.

Here’s a thought exercise: What combinations of class abilities, spells or items will help a party get the jump on enemies almost every time in both the wilderness and dungeons?


Arcane Eye is really great. No one ever uses it though.

Clairaudience/Clairvoyance is great too, but not as much as Arcane Eye.

Only downer for these two spells are the long cast times.

But think about it.

You can get a caster to cast Arcane Eye, manifest it a mile in the air, and gaze at the surrounding terrain for miles around.

No matter what this system says about perception and distance, take it from me, things look pretty darn obvious from above. Heck trees and vegetation seem to provide little cover when you are looking from above.

Or you could just send one down all the twisty little passages in front of you in the dungeon for as long as the spell lasts.

Now as regards using stealth to scout ahead: Don't.

Stealth has never been fixed. If you use RAW, instead of your own system, it doesn't work.

At all.

Sovereign Court

Paladins can use Detect Evil to scan through doors before entering a room. Most doors aren't thick/lead-plated enough to block it.

Although the typical paladin's Stealth score is probably negative, at least it's harder to ambush the PCs. And it gives you an idea of how many enemies to expect. (At least.)


I'm a fighter/shadowdancer and it works soso. Even with a +20 stealth at 11 and hide in plain sight it's only bout 50/50 but as a fighter when I get seen at least i hopefully can take the beating while my friends come in.... This is also soso I have been unconscious the last couple big fights. If u specialize more and use magic items and feats I think it would be little easier. But u loose combat effectiveness doing it. I'm torn myself on specializing more so that I can be more effective scouting.

Grand Lodge

Detect Evil is not nearly the "super spyglass, peering through walls into the souls of all" that so many play it up to be.

Read the spell carefully.

Sovereign Court

I know, but it's free and available, and every little bit helps. It does go through 3ft of wood, doors that aren't solid thick metal or a foot of stone. Meaning, even if you can't see through the door you can often see through the walls.

A level 1 paladin spotting 3 Faint evil auras in the next room doesn't get their exact positions, but he can notice if they're moving around (relative direction changes). With a bit of triangulation he can also determine if they're right behind the door trying to ambush him.

Assuming the GM isn't prone to using over-APL-by-much CR monsters, he can conclude that they're probably facing 3 undead, evil outsiders or priests/antipaladins, each with 4 or less HD.

Grand Lodge

Had too many occasions in which I had to explain that the Detect Evil spell, doesn't work like they want/think it works. Often, to the same people, over, and over.

Deathwatch is pretty nice though.


Druids make some of the best scouts in the game for obvious wild shape related reasons. Invisible arcane casters do well, especially if they invest in the stealth skill as well. Add in Elemental Body I and you have an small invisible earth elemental earth gliding through the walls of the dungeon scouting ahead.


I find it is worthless to send anyone without a bunch of knowledge skills out scouting anyway. Even if the rouge or ranger comes back saying "there are 4 evil looking things 200 ft down the corridor" it doesn't tell you how you are gonna need to prepare. Far better than nothing, but far worse than the flying invisible wizard with darkvision doing the scouting. I find scouting only works well when you can cast enough stealth buffs on the textbook character.


Yep, similarly someone who doesn't have very many languages either. I saw a bunch of weird humanoid things talking funny is not very helpful as far as reconnaissance goes.


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Look up "gloves of reconnaissance"

Basically lets you put two hands on a surface and see or hear through solid material up to fifteen feet thick for ten rounds per day.

The Exchange

sunbeam wrote:

Arcane Eye is really great. No one ever uses it though.

Arcane eye is great and gets uses every time if we have a caster who can cast it.


andreww wrote:
Invisible arcane casters do well, especially if they invest in the stealth skill as well. Add in Elemental Body I and you have an small invisible earth elemental earth gliding through the walls of the dungeon scouting ahead.

THIS! ^^^.

I was going to suggest this as the ultimate scouting tactic, but andreww ninja'ed me. The added benefit of earth gliding around rooms rather than passing through them is that you usually avoid triggering all but the most sensitive of traps. Circumnavigating dungeon rooms also automatically reveals any connecting rooms hidden by secret doors. Add darkvision, detect magic and/or true seeing to maximize the amount of information you can gather while scouting. Even if resident NPCs somehow succeed in defeating your combined stealth and invisibility, they still won't know what they're dealing with if all they see is a stony humanoid shape quickly receding into the stone ceiling. Would you trust your senses if you saw such a thing out of the corner of your eye? If your GM allows earth gliding characters to carry stuff along with them then take full advantage and have fun by reaching into the room and discreetly snatching away key items before NPCs can notice or react.

When my mystic theurge was employing this tactic, I would usually follow the casting of elemental body I with Traveling Dream for added undetectability and safety. It negates the need to cast invisibility and your true body remains safely out of the dungeon. Bonus points for creeping out anyone sleeping in the dungeon.

Once you know where the BBEG is, buff yourselves up and pop the party on top of him with dimension door. Our party used this technique in Rise of the Runelords' to find/fight/defeat most modules' big bossed as our first battle rather than the last. It makes a big difference when you're fresh, buffed up and you catch the BBEG unaware, unprepared and surprised. You also get the best loot at the beginning of the module rather than the end. ;)


Is that spell still valid? I don't see it on the d20pfsrd list for clerics and oracles. According to that it is from a 2008 book.

Looks pretty darn good if it is. Ten minutes a level works great. An hour?

I could make floorplans when I woke up.


I'm not aware of any expiration date on Paizo's published material. A fun little spell; it was thematic for my character and I had fun with it.


RDM42 wrote:

Look up "gloves of reconnaissance"

Basically lets you put two hands on a surface and see or hear through solid material up to fifteen feet thick for ten rounds per day.

Likewise the Door Sight domain power from Exploration sub-domain. Saved our butts on multiple occasions.

There's also the Cat's Eye Crown, which extends darkvision by 60 ft and lets you remove the sensor from the crown and then use clairvoyance from the sensor point.

Small flying familiars/animal companions are also really useful for aerial scouting, especially if they are generic enough to belong in the current terrain.

On the more mundane side, the periscope is a great tool: you can peek around corners or into rooms with a Diminutive size bonus to your Stealth roll and have total cover at the same time.


Ambrus wrote:
I was going to suggest this as the ultimate scouting tactic, but andreww ninja'ed me. The added benefit of earth gliding around rooms rather than passing through them is that you usually avoid triggering all but the most sensitive of traps. Circumnavigating dungeon rooms also automatically reveals any connecting rooms hidden by secret doors. Add darkvision, detect magic and/or true seeing to maximize the amount of information you can gather while scouting.

No need to add Darkvision, Elemental Body gives it to you for free!


andreww wrote:
No need to add Darkvision, Elemental Body gives it to you for free!

You're right; I'd forgotten. It's been awhile since I used this combo.


I'm really surprised if most groups don't allow their scouts to relay decent descriptions to the party when they report back. Also, the knowledge thing should only come up the first time a creature is encountered. I'd be a bit surprised if the GM was demanding I make knowledge checks to recognize things I'd already killed before.

At higher levels, putting your scout in a telepathic bond network works well. Throw a tongues spell on the scout if you need to pick up conversations in bizarre languages.

My rogue found the skill mastery talent to be a godsend, since it removed the threat of botching my stealth checks.

Scrying sensors are relatively easy to notice (DC 20 + spell level), so at higher levels my groups only use those when they're okay with tipping off their enemies that someone's magically spying on them.

Oh, and +1 stealthy spellcaster using elemental body and earthglide. I've seen both PCs and villains utilize that tactic.

Even better if they have eschew materials and don't need a spell component pouch to cast while they're earth elementals.

"They're coming out of the walls, man!"


Zhangar wrote:
Scrying sensors are relatively easy to notice (DC 20 + spell level), so at higher levels my groups only use those when they're okay with tipping off their enemies that someone's magically spying on them.

Although I imagine some GMs might hold that as an absolute DC, I'd say that that's only the difficulty class if the scrying sensor is floating in plain sight. Since a scrying sensor can be manoeuvred around as the caster wishes, I think it's reasonable and logical to allow the caster to take advantage of his stealth skill to try and hide the sensor while moving it around, with appropriate bonuses for it's size.

The DC to notice a sensor must be higher if it's hidden behind obstructions in the shadowy corner of the room rather than hovering in front of your face.


The thing's already invisible. I don't think being in a shadowy corner would help at all. Having actual physical obstructions would raise the DC as appropriate.

But allowing your PC to add a +__ stealth modifier to the flat DC probably makes the divination spells better than they're intended to be.

Edit: While it's not spelled out, the 20+ spell level is already factoring in that the scrying sensor's invisible. To someone who can perceive invisible objects, the thing's plain as day.

I run the flat DC for noticing them as a result of scrying sensors being kind of noisy - they come with a hum or other low, ambient noise that a sufficiently sensitive person will pick up immediately.

If the person's never been exposed to a sensor before, they'll probably be confused as to what's going on. A more experienced sort will know what's going on, though.


I don't know if I'd add the stealth modifier to the base DC of the invisibility; it'd result in an unfairly astronomical DC.

Mechanics-wise, it's probably more balanced and fair to require two successful Perception checks to detect the sensor; one vs the stealth check and another vs the invisibility. For the sake of simplicity, I'd probably just use the higher of the two DCs and roll one perception check. Naturally, someone able to perceive invisible objects would only have to contend with the sensor's stealth DC.

Don't forget to factor in Perception penalties for distance from the sensor!


Generally the groups I've been in used someone stealthy to scout ahead. I generally found that while knowledges might be useful a high perception and ability to describe what was seen worked well for when the scout(s) did not recognize or have the appropriate knowledge allowing them to relay it to the group for someone more expert. On my Loremaster I frequently backed up the rogue scouting ahead if the situation appeared 'sketchy' by using Arcane Eye, Clairvoyance or Prying Eyes/Greater Prying Eyes. I'd watch him (and was often telepathically bonded as well) and he'd be the actually point man unless we knew enough about what was ahead to know it would place him at too great a risk of discovery (which given his stealth was rare particularly with buffs like heroism/greater heroism added on). I also ran Detect Scrying 24-7 which largely shut down the foes trying the same on us (using magical sensors).


earth gliding druid. Automatic cover for stealth checks and almost impossible to stop from leaving.

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