You rang?
Also yes, the Erudite Bard was something I'd wanted to do for ages. Mostly because Wizards and Bards are my favorite classes; that and I used to have an ultimate magus bard/wizard back in 3.5 days that I loved to death.
... Well, okay, so that wasn't what killed'em but close enough!
The real trick to that MCA was figuring out just how much 'wizard' to put in it. The Int-or-Cha split was the big thing; you'll note that in the most updated version, the PDF, we finally settled on using Intelligence; but in the wiki version, which hasn't received the most recent updates to that particular class, you can still see the old version with charisma as main but Int as a 'character option' in the sidebar.
... Int-casting is Erudite Bard Canon IMHO owo
elghinn did you catch my gunslinger/anitpaladin for the list? just wanna make sure, since my goal is to eventually use mcas to make an entire game of gunslingers.
@Elghinn, according to the 4e Menzoberranzan sourcebook "elghinn" means "death" in the language of the drow....!?!?
elghinn did you catch my gunslinger/anitpaladin for the list? just wanna make sure, since my goal is to eventually use mcas to make an entire game of gunslingers.
You are TRUELY a MAN of PEERLESS HONOR!
But yeah I think another Queue Update would be welcome.
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You rang?
The real trick to that MCA was figuring out just how much 'wizard' to put in it. The Int-or-Cha split was the big thing; you'll note that in the most updated version, the PDF, we finally settled on using Intelligence; but in the wiki version, which hasn't received the most recent updates to that particular class, you can still see the old version with charisma as main but Int as a 'character option' in the sidebar.
... Int-casting is Erudite Bard Canon IMHO owo
Honestly I don't care or worry about MAD issues as much as others, especially if its only two stats, though is perhap because of my experiance playing 2.0, more for Jonathon the plan was fo him to have both Cha and Int as high has possible.
I would prefer the decision be left to the player and the DM on whether the Erudite Bard casts by Int or Cha. Admittingly, for my character which one to pick is an interesting question as he learns his magic by books like a Wizard but casts his magic with the expressive creativity of a Bard. Meaning I feel both stats could reasonablly be involved in the learning and casting of spells.
Myself, I would having the learning and acquiring of spells be Int while the casting of spells is through Cha... but that is only my thoughts.
Honestly, I feel encourage a player to focus only on one stat can hamper the character overall. Especially since human average in stats is between 10 and 12. Characters are most often just starting out.
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You rang?
Also yes, the Erudite Bard was something I'd wanted to do for ages. Mostly because Wizards and Bards are my favorite classes; that and I used to have an ultimate magus bard/wizard back in 3.5 days that I loved to death.
Aw yes the Ultumate Magus, a wonderful prestige class.
That is one of the things I wished Paizo would have more willingly worked to include in Pathfinder instead of putting by the wayside in favor of making it so keeping a character a single class with maybe an archetype as a player's 'best' option.
Prestige classing can bring a fair about variety and creativity to the table, if handle in the a way that wasn't "lets see how broken I could get this" or "why would I do that, it would make my character weaker". Sighs
elghinn did you catch my gunslinger/anitpaladin for the list? just wanna make sure, since my goal is to eventually use mcas to make an entire game of gunslingers.
Yup!
Heh, thanks for the welcome. XD I might see if I can make my idea a better MCA - the guidelines do seem very solid, after all, and that's always a help when trying to create balanced custom content.
#Hive Master
Think we're all wrapped up with this MCA now then? looks to be finished unless we need to make any more alterations to complete it?
#Hive Master
Think we're all wrapped up with this MCA now then? looks to be finished unless we need to make any more alterations to complete it?
Yes! I belive we are now done. So, OSW is up next with his Xenoswarmer Assailant.
If Bandw2 doesn't show up, by tomorrow, we'll move on to Gypsy Rose, though she missed her first one, and I'm thinking she's not around. And there seem to be a few others who have vanished, like Koujow and Gadgeteer Smashwidget.
QUEUE UPDATE
Paragon of Rage – Anp/Bbn (Bandw2)*
Xenoswarmer/Xenocite Assailant – Gun/Alc (OSW)*
“Name” – Clr/Mnk (Gypsy Rose)
Old Wiki MCA (Fey Mage)
“Name” – Anp/Alc (Arkellus)
Savage Avenger – Drd/Inq (Apraham Lincoln)
Accursed Shinobi or Black Nokizaru – Nin/Wtc or Wtc/Nin (Taco Man)
Master Arsonist – Alc/Rog (Elghinn)
Secret Sect Knight - Cav/Inq (Bardess)
Old Wiki MCA (Frontier Huntsman)
Warrior Poet – Rgr/Brd (Starfox)
“Name” – Gun/Class or Class/Gun (Christos Gurd)
Scorpion Knight/Siege Lord – Sum/Gun (Lindley Court)
“Spell Rider” – Mag/Cav (LoneKnave/Gadgeteer Smashwidget)
Bioslinger – Gun/Alc (Koujow)
“Animator” – Wiz/Sum or Sum/Wiz (Tyrannical)
Old Wiki MCA (Grenade Zealot)
“Name” – Rgr/Wtc (Gypsy Rose)
Crow Druid – Drd/Rog (Apraham Lincoln)
Final Warlord – Cav/Anp or Anp/Cav (Taco Man)
The Whisperer – Drd/Brd (JonathonWilder)
Heretic Priest – Rog/Clr (Elghinn
....
#Hive Master
Think we're all wrapped up with this MCA now then? looks to be finished unless we need to make any more alterations to complete it?
Yes! I belive we are now done. So, OSW is up next with his Xenoswarmer Assailant.
If Bandw2 doesn't show up, by tomorrow, we'll move on to Gypsy Rose, though she missed her first one, and I'm thinking she's not around. And there seem to be a few others who have vanished, like Koujow and Gadgeteer Smashwidget.
Awesome! can't wait to see it on the wiki.
As for people disappearing, perhaps a roll call is in order to check who's still following?
EDIT: As for my next MCA (the 'Animator'), I may push that back until the new classes are released, see if I can incorporate Arcanist into it, or perhaps Warpriest. so next up would be my Ichormancer I suppose
So, I as before, don't know exactly what's expected of me, but...
The Idea is an Anti-paladin focusing his energy inward into a rage instead of into spells. The rage is less anger and more a need to see everything before them destroyed and brought down.
Basically replace the ability to cast spells with the ability to rage, and replace the LvL 20 anti-pal with Mighty rage, lvl 11 Aura of vengence with greater rage, lvl 17 Aura of depravity replaced by tireless rage. Gain rage powers as normal for a barbarian.
I'm honestly tied up on Fiendish boon, would this mix too well with raging? so maybe have this replaced with the BarBars DR, it might be more interesting to just change this to something else, but I can't think of anything. then also the servant side of the ability doesn't synergize too well with raging. maybe instead the ability to give partial rage to nearby allies or a fiendish servant that rages when you do.
Leaving the touch of corruption and channel energy(although i sort of want to take this out) and smite good. I think taking out Detect good just for fluff reasons.
obviously, can't select the Celestial totem.
Raging per day is based off of charisma modifier.
So, I as before, don't know exactly what's expected of me, but...
The Idea is an Anti-paladin focusing his energy inward into a rage instead of into spells. The rage is less anger and more a need to see everything before them destroyed and brought down.
Basically replace the ability to cast spells with the ability to rage, and replace the LvL 20 anti-pal with Mighty rage, lvl 11 Aura of vengence with greater rage, lvl 17 Aura of depravity replaced by tireless rage. Gain rage powers as normal for a barbarian.
I'm honestly tied up on Fiendish boon, would this mix too well with raging? so maybe have this replaced with the BarBars DR, it might be more interesting to just change this to something else, but I can't think of anything. then also the servant side of the ability doesn't synergize too well with raging. maybe instead the ability to give partial rage to nearby allies or a fiendish servant that rages when you do.
Leaving the touch of corruption and channel energy(although i sort of want to take this out) and smite good. I think taking out Detect good just for fluff reasons.
obviously, can't select the Celestial totem.
Raging per day is based off of charisma modifier.
I already have a preliminary MCA written out for you from which we can use as a starting point, but I need to know one thing. Where do you want to go with this alignment-wise. Do you want this to be
1) only non lawful (which means also NG or CG)
2) restricted to chaotics (CG/CN/CE)
3) or restricted to non good/non lawfu (N/CN/NE/CE)?
Anyone else can chime in too. I'm taking a reduced # of smites, diminished rage, no spells, no fiendish boon, but lots of sunder related abilities approach to this one. Like Bandw2 said, he wanted a "destroyer", someone who likes to wreck things. So, I need to know what people think should be the aligment restrictions.
As a "wrecker", I think #3 is the best, as I don't see a lawful or a good doing what Bandw2 wants this thing to do. After all, this is an Antipaladin primary, which means evil. Though CN/CE might be best. In either case we can just keep Smite Good, Touch of Corruption, and Channel Negative Energy as is.
Screw it, here it is. We can adjust alignment as we go along.
SWAPS
Detect evil = Destructive
Plague bringer = Improved Sunder
Spells = Rage (as spell)
Smite good 2/day = Uncanny dodge
Fiendish boon = Demoralizing sunder, greater sunder, improved uncanny dodge
Cruelty = Rage power
Smite good 4/day = Improved rage
Aura of vengeance = Sundering strike
Aura of sin = Aura of wrath
Smite good 6/day = Greater rage
Aura of depravity = Tireless rage
Unholy champion = Unholy devastator
Primary Class: Antipaladin.
Secondary Class: Barbarian.
Alignment: Chaotic neutral, neutral evil, or chaotic evil.
Hit Die: d10.
Bonus Skills and Ranks: The ruthless destroyer may select three barbarian skills to add to his class skills in addition to the normal antipaladin class skills. The ruthless destroyer gains a number of ranks at each level equal to 4 + Int modifier.
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: The ruthless destroyer is proficient with all simple and martial weapons, with light and medium armor, and with shields (except tower shields).
Destructive (Ex): Whenever the ruthless destroyer makes a melee attack that targets an unattended object or makes a sunder combat maneuver, he adds half his uthless destroyer level (minimum +1) on the damage roll. This ability replaces detect evil.
Improved Sunder (Ex): At 3rd level, a ruthless destroyer gains Improved Sunder as a bonus feat, even if he does not meet the requirements. This ability replaces plague bringer.
Uncanny Dodge (Ex): At 4th level, a ruthless destroyer gains the barbarian’s uncanny dodge ability. This ability replaces smite good 2/day.
Wrath (Ex): Starting at 4th level, a ruthless destroyer gains the barbarian’s rage ability, except that the ruthless destroyer only gains a +2 morale bonus to Strength and Constitution, a +1 morale bonus on Will saves, and a –2 penalty to AC. When determining the number of rounds that he can rage per day, the ruthless destroyer uses his Charisma instead of his Constitution and his barbarian level is equal to his ruthless destroyer level –3. This ability replaces the antipaladin’s spells.
Demoralizing Sunder (Ex): At 5th level, the ruthless destroyer gains Iconoclast and Smash as a bonus feat, even if he does not meet the requirements. Alternatively, when using the Iconoclast feat, the ruthless destroyer can attempt an Intimidate check to demoralize as a free action if he succeeds at a sunder combat maneuver against a wizard’s bonded item, or against a paladin’s or antipaladin’s bonded weapon. In such cases, only the owner of the item is demoralized. If he destroys the bonded item or weapon, gains a +5 bonus on his Intimidate check. This ability, greater sunder, and improved uncanny dodge replace fiendish boon.
Rage Powers (Ex): At 6th level, a ruthless destroyer gains a barbarian rage power. Every four levels thereafter, he gains another rage power. A ruthless destroyer’s barbarian level is equal to his ruthless destroyer level –3 for the purpose of qualifying for rage powers. The ruthless destroyer is restricted from any rage powers that violate his alignment, such as the Celestial Totem rage power. This ability otherwise functions as the barbarian’s rage power ability and replaces cruelty.
Greater Sunder (Ex): At 7th level, the ruthless destroyer gains Greater Sunder as a bonus feat, even if he does not meet the requirements.
Improved Uncanny Dodge (Ex): At 8th level, a ruthless destroyer gains the barbarian’s improved uncanny dodge ability.
Improved Wrath (Ex): At 10th level, when a ruthless destroyer enters rage, the morale bonus to his Strength and Constitution increases to +4 and the morale bonus on her Will saves increases to +2. This ability replaces smite good 4/day.
Sundering Strike (Ex): At 11th level, the ruthless destroyer gains Sundering Strike as a bonus feat, even if he does not meet the requirements. This ability replaces aura of vengeance.
Aura of Wrath (Su): At 14th level, a ruthless destroyer can expend four rounds of his rage ability to grant the ability to rage to all allies within 10 feet, using his bonuses. Allies must use this rage ability by the start of the ruthless destroyer’s next turn and the bonuses last for a number of rounds equal to his Charisma modifier. Allies are also fatigued when the rage ends, as normal. Using this ability is a free action. Lawful creatures gain no benefit from this ability. This ability replaces aura of sin.
Greater Wrath (Ex): At 16th level, when a ruthless destroyer enters rage, the morale bonus to his Strength and Constitution increases to +6 and the morale bonus on her Will saves increases to +3. This ability replaces smite good 6/day.
Tireless Rage (Ex): At 17th level, a ruthless destroyer gains the barbarian’s tireless rage ability. This ability replaces aura of depravity.
Unholy Devastator (Su): At 20th level, a ruthless destroyer can channel his divine wrath to completely destroy his opponents. Once per day, a ruthless destroyer can make a single melee attack at his highest attack bonus against an opponent. If the attack is successful, the target is subject to a destruction spell and instantly takes 10 points of damage per ruthless destroyer level. If the damage slays the target, it consumes the remains utterly in unholy fire (but not its equipment or possessions). If the target's Fortitude saving throw succeeds, it instead takes 10d6 points of damage.
In addition, whenever a ruthless destroyer succeeds on a sunder combat maneuver against an object, it automatically gains the broken condition. If he rolls a natural 20 on the sundering combat maneuver check, he can choose to automatically destroy the object instead. This ability replaces unholy champion.
Rage Powers: The following rage powers complement the Ruthless Destroyer multiclass archetype: Armor Ripper, Beast Totem (Lesser), Body Bludgeon, Brawler, Brawler (Greater), Crippling Blow, Deathless Frenzy, Ground Breaker, Ground Breaker (Greater), Roused Anger, Smasher, Spell Sunder, Sunder Enchantment.
Table: Ruthless Destroyer
Base
Class Attack Fort Ref Will
Level Bonus Save Save Save Special
1st +1 +2 +0 +2 Aura of evil, destructive, smite good 1/day
2nd +2 +3 +0 +3 Touch of corruption, unholy resilience
3rd +3 +3 +1 +3 Aura of cowardice, improved sunder
4th +4 +4 +1 +4 Channel negative energy, uncanny dodge, wrath
5th +5 +4 +1 +4 Demoralizing sunder
6th +6/+1 +5 +2 +5 Rage power
7th +7/+2 +5 +2 +5 Greater sunder, smite good 2/day
8th +8/+3 +6 +2 +6 Aura of despair, improved uncanny dodge
9th +9/+4 +6 +3 +6 Rage power
10th +10/+5 +7 +3 +7 Improved wrath
11th +11/+6/+1 +7 +3 +7 Sundering strike
12th +12/+7/+2 +8 +4 +8 Rage power
13th +13/+8/+3 +8 +4 +8 Smite good 3/day
14th +14/+9/+4 +9 +4 +9 Aura of wrath
15th +15/+10/+5 +9 +5 +9 Rage power
16th +16/+11/+6/+1 +10 +5 +10 Greater wrath
17th +17/+12/+7/+2 +10 +5 +10 Tireless rage
18th +18/+13/+8/+3 +11 +6 +11 Rage power
19th +19/+14/+9/+4 +11 +6 +11 Smite good 4/day
20th +20/+15/+10/+5 +12 +6 +12 Unholy devastator
Y'know what race needs their own Alchemist Archetype? Drow. Because fleshwarping. However, I /have/ just gotten myself abit of an idea for an Alc/Summoner or Summoner/Alc based around the fine fine draedic art of fleshwarping! For the far future though, right now, focusing on the 3 already on the list
I don't think the Ruthless Destroyer would get the barbar's uncanny dodge abilities. They should also be using heavy armor, I don't imagine them as having the same sense as an actual barbarian, they're not barbarians but they both like to get angry, i imagine them as trying to destroy the trap more than dodging. They're still Anti-paladins but with a twist. do you think the DR would be a fair swap? both the Barbar and Antipal usually end up with some DR but this has none(barring rage powers). (actually, could they do a sunder attempt against the DC of the trap as it triggers to avoid damage?)
though I like how I gave two sentences worth of ideas and you came back with two pages.
and yes I think they should be NE, CN, or CE. They're either focused on the destruction of the metaphysical Law and systems that support it, or the destruction of the property and lives of others, or both. True neutral, good nor lawful have any real claim to the class.
also, I like the inclusion of iconoclast, a feat that i did not know about until now.
also, should smite good still be just smite good if you can be CN? maybe they choose when they gain a level in the class, it either has to smite good or lawful. if they're CN it must be lawful, if they are NE I must be good.
also, if you don't have a paladin/barbarian, I just thought that this could work sort of for them as well. a Holy Fury, Crusader, or some such. They instead seek the absolute upholdment of Life and Tradition. They would use Shields and gain a bonus CMD agaisnt sunder, disarm and steal attempts and would grant a minor bonus to allies nearby that can see him. They rage like above and their lvl 20 would be the ability once per day to gain fast healing 10 for charisma mod turns or something. also, probably some ability to "attack/retribution" enemies that fail CMDs against you.
And the point of adjusting by hit dice is?To make sure there is a significant enoygh difference...
I really was wondering, I am ok with your explanation.
I am not sure I agree that the base values need to be adjusted at all, but a HD reduction is much better than dividing HD between eidolons. My main quibble with it is that others might have the same problem I had to understand what it was all about (even if some of my confusion was to make a point).
@Elghinn, according to the 4e Menzoberranzan sourcebook "elghinn" means "death" in the language of the drow....!?!?
Um, El?
And did you just say:
Screw it,...
???
Sorry for delay. I'll post up some notes for my MCA in a few hours...
# RUTHLESS DESTROYER
I am loathe to combine two combat abilities like rage and smite on the same character - it gives a very high degree of specialization. In general, fighter classes have ONE mechanic for increasing damage, only the fighter has two (fighter feats and weapon training). I see it as a problem that multiclassing often gives you two half abilities, and this is one particular area where I feel it is bad. As an example, a ranger/barbarian would have half the rangers favored enemy and half the barbarians rage, resulting in a confusing build.
Could wrath do something else, such as making the ruthless destroyer better at smashing objects and sundering weapons and armor? Perhaps sunder as a side-effect of a normal attack? Or perhaps replace wrath with full rage, making the destroyer an unholy rager in heavy armor?
[General Call]Here is a LINK to a thread in the Advice subforum on the relative balance of MCAs with the Core Classes as a comparison. If anyone who has time, inclination or experience with playtesting MCAs feels like chiming in that would be great - please also make it known your affiliation (if any) with this thread or the MCA project - I do love a bit of transparency where bias is concerned...
@Elghinn, according to the 4e Menzoberranzan sourcebook "elghinn" means "death" in the language of the drow....!?!?Um, El?
And did you just say:
Screw it,...???
1) Cool! Though, it isn't of drow origin (at least that's not where I got it from). That aside, just remember, always watch out for the quiet ones...(mwuahahahaha!)
2) Yes, yes I did.#Ruthless Destroyer
Great feedback Starfox. Anyone lse?
I know we usually don't combine the two primary abilities like this, but i felt the reduced effective level and function (+2 instead of +4) for rage might work.
@Bandw2: If you don't want the uncanny dodge stuff, we can certainly swap in something else, such as the DR. Wasn't sure whether to keep Heavy ARmor prof or not, what do other's think? A heavily armed rager that breaks things?
What about combinig the Smite with Rage, sort of a rage that you target against a chosen opponent a certain number of times per day (like smite)? Call it Wrathful Smite? Gain teh bonuses of the Rage spell at 1st, increasse to +4 and eventually +6 max at later levels? Usable 7/day like smite, but the rage lasts only a certain number of rounds? Or it could just function like Rage, but a target must be designated? Thoughts?
[General Call]Here is a LINK to a thread in the Advice subforum on the relative balance of MCAs with the Core Classes as a comparison. If anyone who has time, inclination or experience with playtesting MCAs feels like chiming in that would be great - please also make it known your affiliation (if any) with this thread or the MCA project - I do love a bit of transparency where bias is concerned...
I'll take a look.
[General Call]Here is a LINK to a thread in the Advice subforum on the relative balance of MCAs with the Core Classes as a comparison.
I burrowed a soap box over there and wrote a few lines. If nothing else, that thread can serve to keep the deeper theoretical discussions away from this thread. :o
#Ruthless Destroyer
What about combinig the Smite with Rage, sort of a rage that you target against a chosen opponent a certain number of times per day (like smite)? Call it Wrathful Smite? Gain teh bonuses of the Rage spell at 1st, increasse to +4 and eventually +6 max at later levels? Usable 7/day like smite, but the rage lasts only a certain number of rounds? Or it could just function like Rage, but a target must be designated? Thoughts?
If the OP likes it, I think a form of rage focused on a certain object/objects could work. I feel that the AC penalty should then also apply only against the target of your rage - this gives that target an incentive to actually fight you (unlike paladin smite and cavalier challenge, that give the target an incentive to avoid you). I believe the benefits should be greater than normal rage and that AC penalty could also be greater. After all, smite adds your level in damage to every attack, which is very powerful. This needs to compete.
Also, the rage could apply against all objects (in addition to the main target), making the Ruthless Destroyer actually destroy things with gusto.
#Ruthless Destroyer
What about combinig the Smite with Rage, sort of a rage that you target against a chosen opponent a certain number of times per day (like smite)? Call it Wrathful Smite? Gain teh bonuses of the Rage spell at 1st, increasse to +4 and eventually +6 max at later levels? Usable 7/day like smite, but the rage lasts only a certain number of rounds? Or it could just function like Rage, but a target must be designated? Thoughts?If the OP likes it, I think a form of rage focused on a certain object/objects could work. I feel that the AC penalty should then also apply only against the target of your rage - this gives that target an incentive to actually fight you (unlike paladin smite and cavalier challenge, that give the target an incentive to avoid you). I believe the benefits should be greater than normal rage and that AC penalty could also be greater. After all, smite adds your level in damage to every attack, which is very powerful. This needs to compete.
Also, the rage could apply against all objects (in addition to the main target), making the Ruthless Destroyer actually destroy things with gusto.
Yeah, that's my thought. I'm thinking Wrathful Smite would grant the +4 bonus to Str/con, the Will save bonus, and the -2 AC, but all against the target of teh smite (like a paladin),. I think also we should add in bonus damage against the target, similar to what smite does, maybe Cha modifier in damage instead of level. Then maybe a +4 bonus to Sundering attampts during the smite 9against weapons, armor, etc.) Still need to work it out. then we can als increae it to Greater Wrath (+6), and perhaps Mighty Wrath (+8) at 20th? Though, I'm leaning to the +6 (greater) as max, as I like what I've posted for the Unholy Devastator capstone. But as always, I'm open to suggestions. Maybe with an increase to the AC penalty too with Greater at -3, and if we go Mighty, a -4, but only against opponents other than his target? It'll sort of be a mash of rage/smite good/and cavalier's challenge to get the right balance of benefit and penalty, otherwise it'll end up OP.
So
1) Shall we start with the normal rage bonus/penalties at 1st or only the Rage spell ones (+2 vs. the +4)?
2) Should we include a damage bonus? Maybe the +1 per level vs the target of teh wrathful sMite, and if its an object (weapon, armor, table...) increase it to 2 per level, like th paladin does against evil outsiders,dragons, etc. This would give it a "destroyer" feel for sure.
I'll need to do some shuffling with ability swaps to unintegrate the Uncanny ability suite, so I'll get back to everyone later with a proposed adjusted version.
Well i vote for rage spell for now, as that gives leeway in designing the whole archetype. If the archtype feels weak down the line we can switch it to reg barbarian. Also the damage bonus is a thematic must.
OK, here's an updated version.
SWAPS
Detect evil = Destructive
Smite good = Wrathful smite
Cruelty = Rage power
Plague bringer = Smash
Spells = harbinger of ruin, demoralizing sunder, greater wrath, paragon of ruin, sundering strike
Aura of vengeance = Aura of wrath
Aura of depravity = Tireless rage
Unholy champion = Unholy devastator
Primary Class: Antipaladin.
Secondary Class: Barbarian.
Alignment: Chaotic neutral, neutral evil, or chaotic evil.
Hit Die: d10.
Bonus Skills and Ranks: The ruthless destroyer may select three barbarian skills to add to his class skills in addition to the normal antipaladin class skills. The ruthless destroyer gains a number of ranks at each level equal to 4 + Int modifier.
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: The ruthless destroyer is proficient with all simple and martial weapons, with all types of armor (heavy, light and medium), and with shields (except tower shields).
Destructive (Ex): Whenever the ruthless destroyer makes a melee attack that targets an unattended object or makes a sunder combat maneuver, he adds half his ruthless destroyer level (minimum +1) on the damage roll. This ability replaces detect evil.
Wrathful Smite (Su): Once per day, a ruthless destroyer can call upon his inner strength and ferocity to crush his enemies. As a swift action, the ruthless destroyer chooses one target within sight to smite. The ruthless destroyer’s melee attacks deal extra damage whenever the attacks are made against the target of his smite. This extra damage is equal to the ruthless destroyer's level. If this target is a construct or he makes a sunder a sunder combat maneuver against an object , (a weapon, armor, table, etc.) the ruthless destroyer adds his Charisma bonus (if any) on his attack rolls and the bonus to damage on the first successful attack increases to 2 points of damage per level the ruthless destroyer possesses.
While wrathful smite is in effect, the ruthless destroyer gains a +2 morale bonus to Strength and Constitution, a +1 morale bonus on Will saves, and a –2 penalty to his Armor Class, except against attacks made by the target of his smite. The increase to Constitution grants the ruthless destroyer 2 hit points per Hit Dice, but these disappear when the smite ends and are not lost first like temporary hit points. Also a ruthless destroyer cannot use any Charisma-, Dexterity-, or Intelligence-based skills (except Acrobatics, Fly, Intimidate, and Ride) or any ability that requires patience or concentration.
A ruthless destroyer is fatigued after the wrathful smite ends for a number of rounds equal to 2 times the number of rounds wrathful smite was in effect. A ruthless destroyer cannot use wrathful smite while fatigued or exhausted but can otherwise use wrathful smite multiple times during a single encounter or combat. The wrathful smite effect remains until the target of the smite is dead, the ruthless destroyer falls unconscious, or the next time the ruthless destroyer rests and regains his uses of this ability.
At 4th level, and at every three levels thereafter, the ruthless destroyer may wrathful smite one additional time per day, as indicated on Table: Ruthless Destroyer, to a maximum of seven times per day at 19th level. This ability replaces smite good.
Rage Powers (Ex): At 3rd level, a ruthless destroyer gains a barbarian rage power. Every three levels thereafter, he gains another rage power. The ruthless destroyer is restricted from any rage powers that violate his alignment, such as the Celestial Totem rage power. This ability otherwise functions as the barbarian’s rage power ability and replaces cruelty.
Smash (Ex): At 3rd level, a ruthless destroyer gains Smash as a bonus feat, even if he does not meet the requirements. This ability replaces plague bringer.
Harbinger of Ruin (Ex): At 4th level, a ruthless destroyer gains Improved Sunder as a bonus feat, even if he does not meet the requirements. This ability, demoralizing sunder, greater wrath, paragon of ruin, and sundering strike replace the antipaladin’s spells.
Fiendish Boon (Sp): This is exactly like the antipaladin’s fiendish boon ability, except for the following changes. If the ruthless destroyer chooses to bond with a weapon, he adds furyborn and ominous to the list of weapon properties he can select. If the ruthless destroyer chooses to bond with a fiendish servant, while the ruthless destroyer’s wrathful smite is in effect, he can spend an additional use of the ability to grant his fiendish servant the benefits of his wrathful smite (including greater wrath and tireless wrath) as long as he is mounted or adjacent to it. The ruthless destroyer can elect not to pay this cost, in which case his fiendish servant does not gain the effects of his wrathful smite. In addition, the fiendish servant gains either the advanced or entropic template at 11th level, as chosen by the ruthless destroyer.
Demoralizing Sunder (Ex): At 7th level, the ruthless destroyer gains Iconoclast as a bonus feat, even if he does not meet the requirements. Alternatively, when using the Iconoclast feat, the ruthless destroyer can attempt an Intimidate check to demoralize as a free action if he succeeds at a sunder combat maneuver against a wizard’s bonded item, or against a paladin’s or antipaladin’s bonded weapon. In such cases, only the owner of the item is demoralized. If he destroys the bonded item or weapon, gains a +5 bonus on his Intimidate check.
Greater Wrath (Ex): At 9th level, when a ruthless destroyer uses his wrathful smite ability, the morale bonus to his Strength and Constitution increases to +4, and the morale bonus on his Will saves increases to +3.
Paragon of Ruin (Ex): At 10th level, the ruthless destroyer gains Greater Sunder as a bonus feat, even if he does not meet the requirements.
Aura of Wrath (Su): At 11th level, a ruthless destroyer can expend two uses of his wrathful smite ability to grant the ability to all allies within 10 feet, using his bonuses. Allies must use this wrathful smite ability by the start of the ruthless destroyer’s next turn and the bonuses last for 1 minute. Allies are also fatigued when the wrathful smite ends, as normal. Using this ability is a free action. Lawful creatures gain no benefit from this ability. This ability replaces aura of vengeance.
Sundering Strike (Ex): At 13th level, the ruthless destroyer gains Sundering Strike as a bonus feat, even if he does not meet the requirements.
Tireless Wrath (Ex): At 17th level, a ruthless destroyer no longer becomes fatigued at the end of his wrathful smite. This ability replaces aura of depravity.
Unholy Devastator (Su): At 20th level, a ruthless destroyer can channel his wrath to completely destroy his opponents. Once per day, a ruthless destroyer can make a single melee attack at his highest attack bonus against an opponent. If the attack is successful, the target instantly takes 10 points of damage per two ruthless destroyer levels. If this damage slays the target, it consumes the remains utterly in unholy fire (but not its equipment or possessions). If the target's Fortitude saving throw succeeds, it instead takes 10d6 points of damage. If the target is a construct, it instead takes 10 points of damage per ruthless destroyer level. If the construct makes a successful Fortitude saving throw, it is also slowed (as the slow spell) and gains the broken condition.
In addition, whenever a ruthless destroyer succeeds on a sunder combat maneuver against an object, it automatically gains the broken condition. If he rolls a natural 20 on the sundering combat maneuver check, he can choose to automatically destroy the object instead. This ability replaces unholy champion.
Rage Powers: The following rage powers complement the Ruthless Destroyer multiclass archetype: Armor Ripper, Beast Totem (Lesser), Body Bludgeon, Brawler, Brawler (Greater), Crippling Blow, Deathless Frenzy, Ground Breaker, Ground Breaker (Greater), Roused Anger, Smasher, Spell Sunder, Sunder Enchantment.
Table: Ruthless Destroyer
Base
Class Attack Fort Ref Will
Level Bonus Save Save Save Special
1st +1 +2 +0 +2 Aura of evil, destructive, wrathful smite 1/day
2nd +2 +3 +0 +3 Touch of corruption/mayhem, unholy resilience
3rd +3 +3 +1 +3 Aura of cowardice, rage power, smash
4th +4 +4 +1 +4 Channel negative energy, harbinger of ruin, wrathful smite 2/day
5th +5 +4 +1 +4 Entropic boon
6th +6/+1 +5 +2 +5 Rage power
7th +7/+2 +5 +2 +5 Demoralizing sunder, wrathful smite 3/day
8th +8/+3 +6 +2 +6 Aura of despair
9th +9/+4 +6 +3 +6 Greater wrath, rage power
10th +10/+5 +7 +3 +7 Paragon of ruin, wrathful smite 4/day
11th +11/+6/+1 +7 +3 +7 Aura of wrath
12th +12/+7/+2 +8 +4 +8 Rage power
13th +13/+8/+3 +8 +4 +8 Sundering strike, wrathful smite 5/day
14th +14/+9/+4 +9 +4 +9 Aura of sin
15th +15/+10/+5 +9 +5 +9 Rage power
16th +16/+11/+6/+1 +10 +5 +10 Wrathful smite 6/day
17th +17/+12/+7/+2 +10 +5 +10 Tireless wrath
18th +18/+13/+8/+3 +11 +6 +11 Rage power
19th +19/+14/+9/+4 +11 +6 +11 Wrathful smite 7/day
20th +20/+15/+10/+5 +12 +6 +12 Unholy devastator
If we feel the bonuses of the Wrathful Smite (+2) is too low, we can make it like normal rage (+$) and increase Greater Wrath to +6, as this sin't getting the beneifts of Mighty Rage at 20th.
I really love some of the ideas you guys are coming up with. Has anyone thought about doing MCAs for third party base classes?
Thanks for the support and welcome to the thread Greatbear. Yes, people have looked at 3PP MCAs - there is even a thread over at the Dreamscarred Press site for making Psionic MCAs. We don't really have the time or resources to pay attention to a lot of 3PP stuff, and the point of the MCA project is to provide free and easily accessible content.
Sure, a lot of 3PP content is available free on d20PFSRD, my own Direlock for example, but we are really just sticking to the Core, Base and Alternate Paizo PF Classes. I know Christos has a bunch of Direlock MCA's he'd like to get through...
# Xenocite Assailant.
OK, so fans of less weird mashups are going to hate this, and really I'm not sure this is Gunslinger, or Alchemist, or Summoner, nor which would be Primary.
Basically this is a medium armored, Fort heavy combatant that wields an alien artifact, the swarmgun - the swarmgun emits, or rather sprays a swarm that is attached to the gun and acts as a swarm under the control of the XA. The XA would then also be able to use the swarmgun and associated tech to take on traits of the vermin sprayed by the swarmgun or spray clouds, or pools of floor covering oozes (thanks Tyrannical!) or.....
* I initially thought Gunslinger because that is the chief inspiration - technological gunner, and Alchemist to use the Discoveries for swarm adjustments/tweaks; tweak Bombs for damage dice and Mutagen to allow the XA to take on some vermin traits - slime, carapace, poison etc... but then it's also quite Summoner for the oozes and swarms capability.
* I do like the Full BAB of the Gunslinger, but that isn't really necessary if you're laying down a field of swarm/ooze... and although I do like the grit mechanic and have an ideas for it powering the swarmgun Gunslingers have so little to swap, deeds could just as well be discoveries.
* Here's the Swarm rules.
The important thing to note (Swarm Attack section) is that swarms don't need to roll to hit, and are living "entities" that have their own particular vulnerabilities and capabilities...
* Seeing as my Symbiont Gunner was Summoner/Gunslinger, I'd be happy with Alc/Gun or Gun/Alc. Also, if people are keen to see this disappear off the face of the earth that's fine too, I'll go with something a little less leftfield. But I think it could be really fun...
Thoughts?
I really love some of the ideas you guys are coming up with. Has anyone thought about doing MCAs for third party base classes?Thanks for the support and welcome to the thread Greatbear. Yes, people have looked at 3PP MCAs - there is even a thread over at the Dreamscarred Press site for making Psionic MCAs. We don't really have the time or resources to pay attention to a lot of 3PP stuff, and the point of the MCA project is to provide free and easily accessible content.
Sure, a lot of 3PP content is available free on d20PFSRD, my own Direlock for example, but we are really just sticking to the Core, Base and Alternate Paizo PF Classes. I know Christos has a bunch of Direlock MCA's he'd like to get through...
i guess we can keep those for a direlock expansion eh seawolf ;)
Off the bat I think Alc/Gun or Gun/Alc is best. As you'll be using swarms vs. bullets, discoveries will likely play out better vs. deeds to make adjustments to the effects. So, I'm thinking Alc/Gun (+some summoner?). Will need to get a frame work of abilities to really see where to go.
Gains Gunsmith, maybe some deeds that fit in place of bomb damage or discoveries? Or extracts if you aren't wanting those?
#Ruthless Destroyer
the new smite is fine, maybe keep it as rage spell, but I think maybe he should gain some benefit for destroying the target. Perhaps removed the number of times per day and go to the rage rounds per day, and when the RD gives an item the broken condition it increases the rounds left by 1 up to the normal maximum (which should be lower, like 2+charisma mod+RD_levels), 2 rounds for destroying an item, and 3 for killing the target.
The idea is he is relieved or empowered by his success.
Off the bat I think Alc/Gun or Gun/Alc is best. As you'll be using swarms vs. bullets, discoveries will likely play out better vs. deeds to make adjustments to the effects. So, I'm thinking Alc/Gun (+some summoner?). Will need to get a frame work of abilities to really see where to go.
Gains Gunsmith, maybe some deeds that fit in place of bomb damage or discoveries? Or extracts if you aren't wanting those?
Alc/Gun then. I'll work up a framework later tonight...
Discoveries rather than extracts I think...
#Ruthless Destroyer
I'd like to see the destroyer get the "smite" damage bonus against all inanimate objects, in particular those blocking his access to the target. But this is just a fixation I got from the name of the class, it is not really a central part of the concept.
Oceanshieldwolf's swarmshooter reminds me of the original half-life (before it turned into counterstrike). Good times!
Off the bat I think Alc/Gun or Gun/Alc is best. As you'll be using swarms vs. bullets, discoveries will likely play out better vs. deeds to make adjustments to the effects. So, I'm thinking Alc/Gun (+some summoner?). Will need to get a frame work of abilities to really see where to go.
Gains Gunsmith, maybe some deeds that fit in place of bomb damage or discoveries? Or extracts if you aren't wanting those?Alc/Gun then. I'll work up a framework later tonight...
Discoveries rather than extracts I think...
ill be keeping an eye out on this one.
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Alc/Gun then. I'll work up a framework later tonight...Discoveries rather than extracts I think...
Ooh, an Alchemist/Gunslinger MCA?
Now I understamd that isn't mine, but one thing I think would be interesting to see is if the MCA could alter the composition and properties of the bullets. To something as simple, or complex, as magic bullets to silver bullets to holy water bullets to poison bullets all the way to adamantium bullets.Simply put I could see this MCA having the means of piercing any and all damage reduction with thier bullets.
What was the Shaper(Drd/Sum) about?
Xenocite Assailant
Primary Alchemist
Secondary Gunslinger
3/4 BAB, d8 HD.
Saves as Alchemist.
The Xenocite assailant drops appraise, knowledge arcana, sleight of hand and spellcraft, and from it's class skills so: Craft (any) (Int), Disable Device (Dex), Fly (Dex), Heal (Wis), Knowledge (nature) (Int), Perception (Wis), Profession (Wis), Survival (Wis), Use Magic Device (Cha).
Skill Ranks per Level: 4 + Int modifier.
- Alchemy/Extracts "swapped" for tweaked gunsmith (start with that swarmgun) and gun training
- Bomb and throw anything becomes the "ammo" swarms, oozes etc...
- Brew potion, poison use, swift alchemy, swift poisoning, instant alchemy swapped for Grit
- Xenocoating (working title) - Mutagen tweaked to options for gaining vermin/ooze/other's attacks, special qualities resistances, natural armor etc
- Discovery and Grand Discovery mashed with Deeds
- Poison Resistance - sure why not. Up for tweaking though...
- Persistent Mutagen as part of xenocoating
* Swarmgun -
- The swarmgun should be non-removable from the XA, otherwise he's sh8t out of luck, and I'm not really looking for a symbiote here, more a technological item grafted to the the body.
I wanted this to have two settings -
- a regular bomb-shot with similar expression to the Alchemist's bombs,
- and a swarm/ooze setting:
I was initially thinking the emitted swarm should have hit points and be attackable, and have a set number of hit points/day, and/or uses per day so that the XA holds the spray on a square/cone and does the damage, but foes can damage the swarm and/or kill it. This does leave the XA standing still and unable to otherwise act - depending on the number of hands it takes to fire the swarmgun.
The ooze setting would lay down a square or square of oozes [gelatinous cube at later level?] that can then be left to its own devices, freeing the XA to do other things.
* Grit would allow for use of discoveries and deeds
* Xenocoating is really open at the moment, could be a version of the Mutagen, or a much broader ability that offers more choices of attacks, resistances, defenses, natural armor etc....
* Discoveries and deeds would affect the swarm gun and the xenocoating
Ooh, an Alchemist/Gunslinger MCA?
Now I understamd that isn't mine, but one thing I think would be interesting to see is if the MCA could alter the composition and properties of the bullets. To something as simple, or complex, as magic bullets to silver bullets to holy water bullets to poison bullets all the way to adamantium bullets.Simply put I could see this MCA having the means of piercing any and all damage reduction with thier bullets.
@JonathonWilder
Um, yep, changes the "bullets" somewhat! ;)
Those are good ideas, but if you read the initial inspiration/concept upthread, not what this Alc/Gun is trying to accomplish. Having said that, if any of your ideas fit the theme, I'm all for it for discovery/deeds... or fine to leave them for a completely different Alc/Gun.
What was the Shaper(Drd/Sum) about?
Sorry, no clue, Azten. People can submit a concept to the queue, and often (almost always) we never really know what they are about until their turn is up.
Drat. It sounds similar to something I was thinking of. Oh well, I'll write it up anyway.
#Ruthless Destroyer
the new smite is fine, maybe keep it as rage spell, but I think maybe he should gain some benefit for destroying the target. Perhaps removed the number of times per day and go to the rage rounds per day, and when the RD gives an item the broken condition it increases the rounds left by 1 up to the normal maximum (which should be lower, like 2+charisma mod+RD_levels), 2 rounds for destroying an item, and 3 for killing the target.
The idea is he is relieved or empowered by his success.
The problem is there are no mechanics for regaining uses of smite or regaining rounds of rage. If you are wanting him to gain some benefit for breaking things, then we could add in an ability that grants him a bonus to Intimidate checks or something, when he breaks an item, or sunders it? Really, that more of a RP or fluff thing than an ability.
However, we could simply add this the the SMash ability.
"In addition, if the ruthless destroyer destroys a sundered object, he adds his Strength modifier to all Intimidate checks until the end of combat."
#Ruthless Destroyer
eh, scratch the bonus then if it can't let him keep raging it.
mostly, I just feel that smites/day doesn't mesh well with only working when not fatigued.
maybe, if he destroys his target in under X(charisma mod + 1/2 RD levels) number rounds he can spend another daily use to pick another target and not end the Smite(still adding up fatigue time).
I feel that the current rage is significantly weaker than normal rage(or at least less practical). in fact it might be better to make it a normalish rage and remove smite?
He doesn't focus on a single object to destroy, he wants to do it to everything(the CE version anyway). also, his Rage isn't purely anger it's him taking his passion for his cause and turning it into unholy physical might. so I think it's best to lay down the smite rules.
on the fiendish boon, maybe replace Vicious with Furious, and Wounding with Invigorating(or just add them to the list). These synergise with the character more overall.
also, fiendish boon doesn't show up on the list
#Ruthless Destroyer
eh, scratch the bonus then if it can't let him keep raging it.
mostly, I just feel that smites/day doesn't mesh well with only working when not fatigued.
maybe, if he destroys his target in under X(charisma mod + 1/2 RD levels) number rounds he can spend another daily use to pick another target and not end the Smite(still adding up fatigue time).
I feel that the current rage is significantly weaker than normal rage(or at least less practical). in fact it might be better to make it a normalish rage and remove smite?
He doesn't focus on a single object to destroy, he wants to do it to everything(the CE version anyway). Also, his Rage isn't purely anger it's him taking his passion for his cause and turning it into unholy physical might. so I think it's best to lay down the smite rules.
on the fiendish boon, maybe replace Vicious with Furious, and Wounding with Invigorating(or just add them to the list). These synergise with the character more overall.
also, fiendish boon doesn't show up on the list
Well, if it really isn't rage, but a divine might of sorts, then let's get rid of the rage altogether. Though we could still keep the rage powers, and just have them manifest during Wrathful Smite. Then we can just go with the normal Smite ability mechanics, but we could also add in the stuff about Sunder - while using Wrathful Smite, he adds his level (instead fo 1/2 level from Destructive) against objects and on sunder attempts, and twice his elvel against constructs.
Removed vicious and wonding and replaced them with furious and invigorating.
Fiendish Boon isn't on the swap list because it's only changed, not swapped out.
Well, if it really isn't rage, but a divine might of sorts, then let's get rid of the rage altogether. Though we could still keep the rage powers, and just have them manifest during Wrathful Smite. Then we can just go with the normal Smite ability mechanics, but we could also add in the stuff about Sunder - while using Wrathful Smite, he adds his level (instead fo 1/2 level from Destructive) against objects and on sunder attempts, and twice his elvel against constructs.
My complaint is with the fact that smite is good against a single target when they should be doing things like cleaves and attacking multiple enemies. I wanted to be a buff on your character instead of attacking an enemy, hence the Rage like abilities.
Xenocite Assailant...
Working out alternate swaps. So far I think these are a good balance for indicated abilities.
SWAPS
1) Alchemy = Grit
2) Extracts = Gunsmith/guntraining (grafted weapon, +1 to attack rolls, -2 penalty to skill checks requiring hands)
3) Bombs = Bomb shot (base effect; also allow use of normal bullets)
4) Discovery (2/6/10/14/18) = Deeds (2 only of 1st to 15th)
5) Mutagen = Xenomutagen (enables XA to fire swarms with 1d6/2d6/3d6/4d6/5d6 as swarm damage over levels; lasts 10 minutes per level,but the XA can switch between bomb shots, normal bullets, or swarm shots as a swift action)
6) Poison use, swift alchemy, swift poisoning, persistent mutagen, instant alchemy = Xenocoating (specific choices for Swarm shot effects). I need a more indepth description to understand this if possible.
This still leaves Brew potion and throw anything left. Maybe swap Brew Potion for Craft Magical Arms and Armor?
Poison Resistance/Immunity could be tweaked to Swarm Resistance (poison resistance to all types of poison, but also disease resistance from swarm types only?)