Well aren't you the gentleman.
:P
Back to the Cacophany Blaster please, Advanced Class Guide isn't out 'til August...Christos, taken a look at those performances?
Also, here's...
The Real Queue Update (warning, it's way long)
Rhythmic/Cacophany Blaster – Gun/Brd (Christos Gurd)*
Blackthorn – Rog/Drd (JonathanWilder)*
Hivemind – Sum/Drd or Drd/Sum (Tyrannical)
Xenoswarmer/Xenocite Assailant – Gun/Alc (OSW)
“Name” – Clr/Mnk (Gypsy Rose)
Old Wiki MCA (Fey Mage)
“Name” – Anp/Alc (Arkellus)
Accursed Shinobi or Black Nokizaru – Nin/Wtc or Wtc/Nin (Taco Man)
Savage Avenger – Drd/Inq (Apraham Lincoln)
Master Arsonist – Alc/Rog (Elghinn)
Secret Sect Knight - Cav/Inq (Bardess)
Old Wiki MCA (Frontier Huntsman)
Warrior Poet – Rgr/Brd (Starfox)
Scorpion Knight/Siege Lord – Sum/Gun (Lindley Court)
“Spell Rider” – Mag/Cav (LoneKnave/Gadgeteer Smashwidget)
Bioslinger – Gun/Alc (Koujow)
“Animator” – Wiz/Sum or Sum/Wiz (Tyrannical)
Old Wiki MCA (Grenade Zealot)
“Name” – Rgr/Wtc (Gypsy Rose)
Crow Druid – Drd/Rog (Apraham Lincoln)
Kishin Warlord – Sam/Anp or Anp/Sam (Taco Man)
Heretic Priest – Rog/Clr (Elghinn
Boastful Gallant - Brd/Cav (Bardess)
“Name” – Class/Class (Starfox)
Occult Porcupine – Magu/Wtc (Lindley Court)
Old Wiki MCA (Hallowed Gunman)
Elementalist – Drd/Sum (Gadgeteer Smashwidget)
Yabusame – Sam/Ftr or Rgr (Koujow)
Gadgeteer – Rgr/Alc (Tyrannical)
Elemental Envoy – Drd/Ora (Apraham Lincoln)
Scroll Warrior – Wiz/Sam (Elghinn)
Old Wiki MCA (Hand of Faith)
Lightspeed Master - Mnk/Mag (Bardess)
Shaper – Drd/Sum (Gadgeteer Smashwidget)
“Name” – Class/Class (Starfox)
The “Thor” – Ftr or Pal/ Wiz (Koujow)
Old Wiki MCA (Highwayman)
“Name” – Alc/Pal (Tyrannical)
Ambrose Knight – Cav/Alc (Elghinn + Dustyboy)
Frenzied Apostle – Bbn/Clr (Bardess)
“Name” – Class/Class (Starfox)
Old Wiki MCA (Infused Mage)
Demon Tamer – Pal/Brd (Gadgeteer Smashwidget)
Dragon Rocket Fist – Mnk/Gun (Koujow)
Ichormancer – Drd/Alc (Tyrannical)
Rune Mage – Alc/Mag (Elghinn)
Old Wiki MCA (Iron Bombardier)
Witch Hunter – Rgr/Wtc (Bardess)
“Name” – Class/Class (Starfox)
“Name” – Cav/Ftr “Mountless Knight” (Gadgeteer Smashwidget)
Puppet Master – Sum/Rog or Alc (Koujow)
Old Wiki MCA (Ironforged Druid)
“Name” – ?/? (Tyrannical)
Wilderland Magus – Mag/Rgr (Elghinn)
“Name” – Anp/Inq (Gadgeteer Smashwidget)
Plant Lord – Rog/Drd (Koujow)
Old Wiki MCA (Knight Errant* - Raider new one?)
“Name” – ?/? (Tyrannical)
Relic Hunter – Mag/Rog (Elghinn)
Noble - Brd/Rog (Koujow)
“Name” – ?/? (Tyrannical)
Old Wiki MCA (Lawbringer)
Wildheart Warrior – Rgr/Bbn (Elghinn)
Old Wiki MCA (Mage Slayer)
Compassionate Warrior – Sam/Pal (Elghinn)
Old Wiki MCA (Master Apothecary)
Bushi Hospitaler – Clr/Sam (Elghinn)
Old Wiki MCA (Mutagenic Brute)
Blood Samurai – Sam/Sor (Elghinn)
Old Wiki MCA (Physimorph Marauder)
Imperial Pathfinder – Sam/Rgr (Elghinn)
Old Wiki MCA (Primal Caller)
Old Wiki MCA (Quipu Mystic)
I'd suggest the Buccaneer, Dervish Dancer, and Street Performer for possibilities.
street performer seems to be the opposite of what im going for as its very lowkey, and neither is dervish dancer as that is kinda the opposite of a show off. the bucanner's song of surrender (maybe a holdup performance requiring a gun perhaps?) is perfect. will look into more.
actually derring do from the daredevil bard is exactly something i want for this.
link for ease of checking out
is there somewhere we can go with this ability?
actually derring do from the daredevil bard is exactly something i want for this.
link for ease of checking out
is there somewhere we can go with this ability?
Not sure. I think we can adapt it easily.
As a gunslinger primary, I'm wondering if we shouldn't keep grit, rename it performance grit, and just spend grit to allow performances to be used for 1 round per 2 levels, up to his Charisma modifier? Keeps it at 1 round at 1st, 2 at 3rd, etc, but maxes out at 5 rounds or so (Cha 20). Or we could go 1 round + 1 round per 4 levels (max 5 at 17th). That way we'd simply incorporate the performances into the deeds mechanic. Plus, grit can be regains, and perhaps even change how grit is regained a bit so that one of the regaining mechanisms is more "bardic-based".
We also need to know what deeds you really want to keep Christos, for swaps sake.
Perhaps when somebody under their inspire courage scores a critical hit, they regain "grit". Or if you use the daredevil variant with an AC bonus, when opponents fail to confirm critical hits on inspired allies.
Been doing so fiddling with the Cacophony Blaster.
I think by giving the CB performance deeds a set duration based on Cha/level we can get rid of rounds of performance, and just use the grit mechanic, in conjunction with the regaining of grit. The question is, should the Performance Deeds be Cha mod rounds + 1 round per 4 levels attained, or just a straight up Cha mod rounds?
There are those that seek out the way of the gun, not because of its deadly potential, but because they find music and rhythm in its booms and bangs. Channeling the power of the inner music, these eccentric firearm artists are more dangerous than many may believe. Studious and deadly, they carve their own niche in the world, demanding an audience, whether they want to hear the music or not.
Primary: Gunslinger.
Secondary: Bard.
Alignment: Any.
Hit Dice: d10.
Bonus Skills and Ranks: The cacophony blaster may select three bard skills to add to her class skills in addition to the normal gunslinger class skills. The cacophony blaster gains a number of ranks at each level equal to 4 + Int modifier.
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: The cacophony blaster is proficient with all simple and martial weapons, all firearms, and with light and medium armor.
Grit: This is exactly like the gunslinger’s grit ability, except that instead of regaining grit by making a critical hit with his firearm, the cacophony blaster regains grit in the following way.
Critical Hit During a Performance Deed: Each time a cacophony blaster’s ally confirms a critical hit in the heat of combat while under the effects of a performance deed, he regains 1 grit point. Confirming a critical hit on a helpless or unaware creature or on a creature that has fewer Hit Dice than half the cacophony blaster’s character level does not restore grit.
Sonic/Symphonic Gunsmith (Su): This is exactly like the gunslinger’s gunsmith ability, except that half the damage dealt by a cacophony blaster’s battered firearm is of the sonic energy type. If a cacophony blaster uses a firearm in an area that suppresses sound, such as a zone of silence, or he is targeted by a silence spell, the firearm deals no sonic damage (but still deals half the normal damage). This battered firearm can be replaced like a gunslinger’s battered firearm.
Deeds: This is exactly like the gunslinger’s deeds ability, except that the cacophony blaster swaps nine deeds for the following deeds. Some of these deeds are performance deeds that duplicate the effects of certain bardic performances. Unless noted otherwise, the effects of a performance deed can be maintained for a number of rounds equal to the cacophony blaster’s Charisma modifier plus 1 round for every four levels the cacophony blaster has attained.
Derring-do (Su): At 1st level, a cacophony blaster can, as a standard action, inspire bring out grace in the clumsiest allies. The cacophony blaster and any allies who see him receive a +1 morale bonus on Reflex saving throws and a +2 competence bonus on Dexterity-based skill checks. Allies who move at least 10 feet during their turn gain a +1 dodge bonus to their Armor Class until the start of their next turn. At 5th level, and every six cacophony blaster levels thereafter, the saving throw and Armor Class bonuses increase by +1, to a maximum of +4 at 17th level, and the skill check bonuses increase by +2, to a maximum of +8 at 17th level. This is a mind-affecting ability that uses visual components. Performing this deed costs 1 grit point. This performance deed replaces the deadeye deed.
Hammer Strike (Su): At 3rd level, a cacophony blaster can, as a standard action, use his firearm to unleash a sonic burst at a creature or object. This deed deals 1d6 points of sonic damage plus the cacophony blaster’s level to an object, or 1d4 points of sonic damage plus the cacophony blaster’s level to a living creature. This deed replaces replaces the pistol-whip deed.
Inspire Courage (Su): A 3rd level cacophony blaster can, as a standard action, inspire courage in his allies (including himself), bolstering them against fear and improving their combat abilities. To be affected, an ally must be able to perceive the cacophony blaster’s performance. An affected ally receives a +1 morale bonus on saving throws against charm and fear effects and a +1 competence bonus on attack and weapon damage rolls. At 7th level, and every six cacophony blaster levels thereafter, this bonus increases by +1, to a maximum of +4 at 19th level. Inspire courage is a mind-affecting ability. Inspire courage can use audible or visual components. The cacophony blaster must choose which component to use when using this deed. Performing this deed costs 1 grit point. This performance deed replaces the utility shot deed.
Inspire Competence (Su): At 7th level, a cacophony blaster can, as a standard action, help an ally succeed at a task. The ally must be within 30 feet and able to see and hear the cacophony blaster. The ally gets a +2 competence bonus on skill checks with a particular skill as long as she continues to hear the cacophony blaster. This bonus increases by +1 for every four levels the cacophony blaster has attained beyond 7th (+3 at 11th, +4 at 15th, and +5 at 19th).
Certain uses of this ability are infeasible, such as Stealth, and may be disallowed at the GM's discretion. A cacophony blaster can't inspire competence in himself. Inspire competence relies on audible components. Performing this deed costs 1 grit point. This performance deed replaces the targeting deed.
Song of Surrender (Su): At 7th level, a cacophony blaster can, as a standard action, encourage an enemy to surrender. To be affected, an enemy must be within 30 feet and be able to see and hear the cacophony blaster. An affected enemy feels the irresistible urge to drop any held weapons and fall prone. This effect lasts for 1 round—essentially, the affected enemy takes no actions on its next turn other than to lie prone, although it is not considered flat-footed or helpless. A Will saving throw (DC 10 + 1/2 the cacophony blaster’s level + the cacophony blaster’s Charisma modifier) negates the effect. This ability affects only a single creature. Song of surrender is an enchantment (compulsion), mind-affecting, language-dependent ability and relies on audible component. Performing this deed costs 1 grit point. This performance deed replaces the startling shot deed.
Inspire Greatness (Su): At 11th level, a cacophony blaster can, as a standard action, inspire greatness in himself or a single willing ally within 30 feet, granting extra fighting capability. For every three levels a cacophony blaster attains beyond 11th, he can target one additional ally while using this performance (up to a maximum of four at 20th level). To inspire greatness, all of the targets must be able to see and hear the cacophony blaster. A creature inspired with greatness gains 2 bonus Hit Dice(d10s), the commensurate number of temporary hit points (apply the target’s Constitution modifier, if any, to these bonus Hit Dice), a +2 competence bonus on attack rolls, and a +1 competence bonus on Fortitude saves. The bonus Hit Dice count as regular Hit Dice for determining the effect of spells that are Hit Dice dependent. Inspire greatness is a mind-affecting ability and it relies on audible and visual components. Performing this deed costs 1 grit point. This performance deed replaces the bleeding wound deed.
Cacophonic Barrage (Su): At 15th level, a cacophony blaster can, as a full-attack action, use his firearm to unleash a barrage of sonic bursts equal to 1/2 the cacophony blaster’s level (maximum 10), with each burst affecting one target within 30 feet. Each burst deals 1d8 points of damage plus the cacophony blaster’s Charisma modifier (Fortitude save for half damage). This deed replaces the menacing shot deed.
Inspire Heroics (Su): At 19th level, a cacophony blaster can, as a standard action, inspire tremendous heroism in himself or a single ally within 30 feet. To inspire heroics, the target must be able to see and hear the cacophony blaster. The inspired creature gains a +4 morale bonus on saving throws and a +4 dodge bonus to AC. The effect lasts for as long as the target is able to witness the performance, or after the number of rounds ends. Inspire heroics is a mind-affecting ability that relies on audible and visual components. Performing this deed costs 1 grit point. This performance deed replaces the stunning shot deed.
Mass Song of Surrender (Su): This functions like song of surrender, but allows the cacophony blaster to affect all enemies within 30 feet. Enemies within range of this effect still receive a saving throw. Mass song of surrender is an enchantment (compulsion), mind-affecting, language-dependent ability that relies on audible components. Performing this deed costs 1 grit point. This performance deed replaces the cheat death deed.
Bardic Knowledge (Ex): At 4th level, a cacophony blaster gains the bard’s bardic knowledge ability. This ability replaces the bonus feat gained at 4th level.
Well-Versed (Ex): At 8th level, a cacophony blaster gains the bard’s well-versed ability. This ability replaces the bonus feats gained at 8th level.
Lore Master: At 12th level, a cacophony blaster gains the bard’s lore master ability. He can use this ability once per day at 12t level, and an additional time per day at 16th and 20th level. This ability replaces the bonus feats gained at 12th, 16th, and 18th level.
Table: Cacophany/Cacophonic Blaster
Base
Class Attack Fort Ref Will
Level Bonus Save Save Save Special
1st +1 +2 +2 +0 Deeds, grit, sonic gunsmith
2nd +2 +3 +3 +0 Nimble +1
3rd +3 +3 +3 +1 Deeds
4th +4 +4 +4 +1 Bardic knowledge
5th +5 +4 +4 +1 Gun training 1
6th +6/+1 +5 +5 +2 Nimble +2
7th +7/+2 +5 +5 +2 Deeds
8th +8/+3 +6 +6 +2 Well-versed
9th +9/+4 +6 +6 +3 Gun training 2
10th +10/+5 +7 +7 +3 Nimble +3
11th +11/+6/+1 +7 +7 +3 Deeds
12th +12/+7/+2 +8 +8 +4 Lore master 1/day
13th +13/+8/+3 +8 +8 +4 Gun training 3
14th +14/+9/+4 +9 +9 +4 Nimble +4
15th +15/+10/+5 +9 +9 +5 Deeds
16th +16/+11/+6/+1 +10 +10 +5 Lore master 2/day
17th +17/+12/+7/+2 +10 +10 +5 Gun training 4
18th +18/+13/+8/+3 +11 +11 +6 Nimble +5
19th +19/+14/+9/+4 +11 +11 +6 Deeds
20th +20/+15/+10/+5 +12 +12 +6 Lore master 3/day, true grit
Just PMed JonathanWilder. If we don't hear from him by tomorrow, we'll move on. Unless we want to take his concept (Rog/Drd) and just build it from scratch?
Been doing so fiddling with the Cacophony Blaster.
I think by giving the CB performance deeds a set duration based on Cha/level we can get rid of rounds of performance, and just use the grit mechanic, in conjunction with the regaining of grit. The question is, should the Performance Deeds be Cha mod rounds + 1 round per 4 levels attained, or just a straight up Cha mod rounds?
** spoiler omitted **...
i like thar, though i think grit should be changed to charisma based, and the duration be charisma mod only.
Just PMed JonathanWilder. If we don't hear from him by tomorrow, we'll move on. Unless we want to take his concept (Rog/Drd) and just build it from scratch?
Well, he did seem quite passionate about the Blackthorn, given the rather long and involved flavor text. I don't think we need to create anything else for other people, especially given the abundantly over massive pile of concepts people are keen to do….
I'm happy to wait a little, then maybe just drop him back in the queue by one or two…
i like thar, though i think grit should be changed to charisma based, and the duration be charisma mod only.Been doing so fiddling with the Cacophony Blaster.
I think by giving the CB performance deeds a set duration based on Cha/level we can get rid of rounds of performance, and just use the grit mechanic, in conjunction with the regaining of grit. The question is, should the Performance Deeds be Cha mod rounds + 1 round per 4 levels attained, or just a straight up Cha mod rounds?
** spoiler omitted **...
That, my friend, is doable. Anyone object to Cha based Grit?
Just PMed JonathanWilder. If we don't hear from him by tomorrow, we'll move on. Unless we want to take his concept (Rog/Drd) and just build it from scratch?Well, he did seem quite passionate about the Blackthorn, given the rather long and involved flavor text. I don't think we need to create anything else for other people, especially given the abundantly over massive pile of concepts people are keen to do….
I'm happy to wait a little, then maybe just drop him back in the queue by one or two…
I agree! We'll give him another day or two, then push him back in the queue.
Christos, with the Cha change, are you good with your Cacophony Blaster?
Just PMed JonathanWilder. If we don't hear from him by tomorrow, we'll move on. Unless we want to take his concept (Rog/Drd) and just build it from scratch?Well, he did seem quite passionate about the Blackthorn, given the rather long and involved flavor text. I don't think we need to create anything else for other people, especially given the abundantly over massive pile of concepts people are keen to do….
I'm happy to wait a little, then maybe just drop him back in the queue by one or two…
I agree! We'll give him another day or two, then push him back in the queue.
Christos, with the Cha change, are you good with your Cacophony Blaster?
yep
Yay!
So onto the two Sci-Fi soundin' Dudes?
Alright, Tyrannical, you're up with your Hivemind (or whichever one you want to do right now).
Alrighty, here's what I got;
Mostly inspired by the Pack Lord Druid Archetype and the Broodmaster Summoner Archetype, having a small brood of minions to command instead of just the one. I decided to give it a bit of a vermin theme to refine the brood aspect, and to implement a vermin themed summoner variant. So, here's what I got!
Hiveminds are strange, sometimes feared, bastions of verminous congeregation. The hivemind swarms her enemies with a brood consisting of aggressive vermin that will defend her to the death, and seem to have been bred in such strange ways they exhibit monsterous features and in some rare cases magical affinity. The kinship of these vile creatures is strong, showing loyalty as if the hivemind were their monarch, and follow her wills unquestioningly.
Primary Class: Summoner
Secondary Class: Druid
Alignment: Any
Hit Die: D8
Bonus Skills and Ranks: The hivemind may select three druid skills to add to her class skills in addition to the normal summoner class skills. The hivemind gains a number of ranks at each level equal to 4 + Int modifier.
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Hiveminds are proficient with all simple weapons and all natural attacks (claw, bite, and so forth) they gain from evolutions or special forms (see below).
They are also proficient with light and medium armor but are prohibited from wearing metal armor; thus, they may wear only padded, leather, or hide armor. A hivemind may also wear wooden armor that has been altered by the ironwood spell so that it functions as though it were steel. hiveminds are proficient with shields (except tower shields) but must use only wooden ones.
Spellcasting: The hivemind casts divine spells drawn from the Druid spell list (spells 0-6 only). She also adds the following spells to the list at indicated levels: 1st- Web Bolt, Summon Minor Monster, Poisoned Egg, Daze Monster, Life Conduit 2nd- Web, Create Pit, Vomit Swarm, Evolution Surge; Lesser 3rd- Stinking Cloud, Venomous Bolt, Toxic Gift, Rejuvinate Eidolon, Evolution Surge 4th- Web Cloud, Black Tentacles, Locate Creature 5th- Cloudkill, Hold Monster 6th- Creeping Doom, Charm Monster; Mass
Broodlings: From 1st level, the hivemind selects a brood to shape to her will. This brood's base form and starting abilities start as that of a Familiar or Animal Companion (reduced to Small size) and level in a fashion similar to Eidolons. The hivemind begins play with two Small Broodlings or four Tiny Broodlings, or a mix of the two (one small and two tiny). Their effective level is half of that of the hivemind when small, or a quarter when tiny. When choosing a Familiar or Animal companion, they must exhibit vermin-like qualities, such as rats, insects, arachnids, toads and other such creatures that would normally be considered vermin*, and as such the brood is classified as the 'vermin' type in place of animal type.
As the hivemind reaches level 4, she also gains evolution points, gaining 1 evolution point per level (to a maximum of 16 at level 20). When applying these evolutions, she applies them to the Brood as a whole, giving each Broodling the same evolutions. However, tiny Broodlings lose 2 evolutions to compensate for their size bonuses. The hivemind may not select evolutions that duplicate her broodling's base abilities (such as Poison on forms already capable of poisoning, or natural attacks like claws and bite that already belong to the base form), nor can she select Celestial Appearance, Dimension Door, Large or Incorporeal Form as Evolutions.
This ability replaces Eidolon
Summon Nature's Ally: Starting at 1st level, a hivemind can cast summon nature's ally I as a spell-like ability a number of times per day equal to 3 + his Wisdom modifier. She can only use this ability when her brood is not summoned. She can cast this spell as a standard action and the creatures remain for 1 minute per level (instead of 1 round per level). At 3rd level, and every 2 levels thereafter, the power of this ability increases by one spell level, allowing him to summon more powerful creatures (to a maximum of summon nature's ally IX at 17th level). The hivemind also gains the Spider Summoner feat regardless if they are Drow or not, and the summoned creatures are classed as 'vermin' instead of their standard type.
Additionally, the hivemaster may choose to adopt a vermin form in place of one of her uses of summon nature's ally that day in a similar fashion to a Druid's Wild shape and lasting as long as 1 minute per level as her Summon Nature's Ally does. She may sacrifice a single use for the following;
Summon Nature's Ally II - Vermin Shape I (Small)
Summon Nature's Ally IV - Vermin Shape I (Medium)
Summon Nature's Ally VI - Vermin Shape II (Tiny)
Summon Nature's Ally VIII - Vermin Shape II (Large)
This ability replaces Summon Monster I-IX
Vermin Empathy: At 1st level, a hivemind can improve the attitude of vermin as a normal druid can with animals. Vermin have a starting attitude of unfriendly. The hivemind can also improve the attitude of animals and swarms, but she takes a –4 penalty on the check.
This ability replaces Life Link.
Hivemind: Starting at 2nd level, a hivemind can, as a standard action, share the senses of one of her broodlings much like the 'Bond Senses' ability of Summoners; hearing, seeing, smelling, tasting, and touching everything the broodling does. She can use this ability a number of rounds per day equal to her summoner level. There is no range to this effect, but the broodling and hivemind must be on the same plane. The summoner can end this effect as a free action. In addition, as a swift action, the hivemind may switch between which broodling she is currently sharing senses with.
this ability replaces Bond Senses.
Resist Vermin's Malice: Starting at 4th level, a hivemind gains a +4 bonus on saving throws against the spell-like and supernatural abilities of Vermin and Swarms, including poison and disease effects.
this ability replaces Shield Ally.
Swarm Master: At 6th level, as a standard action, a hivemind can cause one of her broodlings to become a swarm of her choosing. This acts as Swarm Skin, only it turns a chosen broodling into a swarm rather than the hivemind herself. By doing so, the hivemind can command this swarm as if it were one of her broodlings, and can use this ability a number of times per day equal to 3 + her Wisdom modifier.
This ability replaces Master's Call
Toxin Immunity: At 8th level, a hivemind gains immunity to all poisons, as well as the disease effects of vermin and swarms.
This ability replaces Transposition
Aspect: At 10th level, a hivemind can divert up to 2 points from his brood’s evolution pool to add evolutions to herself. She cannot select any evolution that the brood could not possess, and she must be able to meet the requirements as well. She cannot select the ability increase evolution through this ability. Any points spent in this way are taken from the brood's evolution pool (reducing the total number available to the brood). The hivemind can change the evolutions she receives from these points any time she can change the brood's evolutions.
Create Hive: At 12th level, a hivemaster can create a hive that acts as cover, as if using the web shelter spell. Though instead, the hive has a hardness of 6, and 5 hit points for every 5-foot square of web surface area. Each broodling in the hive grants the hivemind a +2 shield bonus to AC, or +1 if they are tiny.
This ability replaces greater shield ally.
Brood Bond: At 14th level, a hiveminds life becomes linked to her brood. This functions as the Summoner's 'life bond' ability, except the hivemind can only transfer damage to one broodling in the brood at a time. If that broodling takes enough damage to kill it, all excess damage remains with the hivemind, killing her instead.
This ability replaces life bond.
Brood Form: At 16th level, as a full-round action, a hivemind can touch a single broodling (or two tiny broodlings) and take it's form. This form is exactly like that of the broodling touched, only the hivemind is of the medium size category instead. All effects and spells currently targeting the hivemind are suspended until she resumes her normal form. The hivemind can use this ability for a number of rounds per day equal to her class level. She can end this effect at any time as a swift action.
This ability replaces Merge Forms.
Greater Aspect: At 18th level, a hivemind can divert more of her brood's evolutions to herself. This ability functions as the aspect ability, but up to 6 evolution points can be taken. Unlike the aspect ability, the brood loses 1 point from its evolution pool for every 2 points (or fraction thereof) diverted to the hivemind.
Summon Great Vermin: At 19th level, a hivemind learns how to summon a giant verminous creature to her service, instead of being able to cast Gate as a summoner can. She instead can cast Summon Elder Worm or Summon Froghemoth in place of this ability.
This ability replaces Gate.
Greater Brood Form: At 20th level, whenever the hivemind uses her brood form ability, she no longer needs to occupy any of her broodlings in order to attain her new form. Additionally, she may choose to sacrifice a single small broodling (or two tiny broodlings) to instead increase to the large size category when taking on her brood form.
This ability replaces Twin Eidolon.
New Evolutions:
2 Point Evolutions
Disease: With this evolution, any creature that strikes a broodling with a touch attack, unarmed strike, or natural weapon must succeed at a Fortitude save with a The save DC is equal to 10 + 1/2 the broodling's HD + Constitution modifier or contract a disease, as the contagion spell. If the creature makes its save, it is immune to this effect for 24 hours. This evolution may only be taken at level 6.
4 Point Evolutions
Larger Brood: The hivemind can expand the size of her brood as if she gained the large evolution. This allows her to summon two Medium broodlings, four Small broodlings, or one Medium broodling and two Small broodlings. This evolution may only be taken at level 8.
At 13th level, if the hivemind has purchased the large evolution for his brood, he can spend an additional 6 evolution points from the evolution pool for the huge evolution. This allows him to call two Large broodlings, four Medium broodlings, eight Small broodlings, or any similar combination in which two smaller broodlings count as one brood of one size larger.
Ooze Appearance: The hivemind's brood takes on a similar appearance to oozes and slime creatures
Spells and effects that target creatures with the ooze subtype or have specific effects against such creatures affect the broodlings as if they were an ooze. The broodlings gain a +2 bonus on saves against poison, sleep effects, paralysis, polymorph, and stunning.
At 7th level, by spending 2 additional evolution points, this bonus on saves is increased to +4 and when hit by a slashing attack may split into two broodlings, each a size category smaller than before. The broodling cannot become smaller than the tiny size category.
At 12th level, by spending 2 additional evolution points, this protection is increased to immunity, and the brood also becomes immune to critical hits, flanking and sneak attacks (the hivemind must pay for the 7th-level upgrade before paying for this 12th-level upgrade).
*May select the following;
Animal Companions;
Giant Ant, Dire Bat, Giant Beetle, Giant Centipede, Giant Crab, Giant Frog, Giant Leech, Giant Mantis, Dire Rat, Giant Scorpion, Giant Slug, Giant Spider, Giant Toad, Giant Wasp.
Familiars;
Bat, House Centipede, King Crab, Giant Isopod, Rat, Greensting Scorpion, Skunk, Scarlet Spider, Toad.
I was debating giving the Hivemind druid domains, though I think it may be a bit difficult to implement without making cutbacks.
There's also the matter of spells, leveling and BAB, which I'm not good at, any suggestions?
#Hivemind
Still need to take a complete look but to answer this question...
There's also the matter of spells, leveling and BAB, which I'm not good at, any suggestions?
As both primary and secondary are d8 HD, you'd keep the 3/4 BAB. Going Druid spells is good, and we may want to add in a few more spells from higher druid levels that fit the "hive" concept. I'll need to take a look at the druid list and see what is included in 0-6 levels.
I'll get back to you on the actual MCA later.
As I've heard no word from JonathanWilder, we're dropping him back in the queue, and moving on the OSW's MCA. So, OSW, you're up!
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Welcome JonathanWilder, I will add you to the queue.
I apologize for not getting to you sooner, I've been busy and lack of computer. Doesn't help that I didn't receive a notification on your PM.
Onto your question I have a base structure for the MCA, two key points of notice being given to synergize the use of rogue's backstab with a druid's shapeshifting abilities. Also half access to druid spellcasting, use of a Thousand Faces and Posion Immunity.
Again, I apoligize for not being able to get back to you sooner.
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Well, he did seem quite passionate about the Blackthorn, given the rather long and involved flavor textI'm happy to wait a little, then maybe just drop him back in the queue by one or two…
Hmm, it would seem I left the wrong impression. That flavor text isn't mine, it is from the Mongoose Publishing: Quintessential Rogue II
The original Blackthorn I plan on forming the base/core idea of the MCA I would like made for Pathfinder. Now if I can just refind the site that has it stored I can link it here..
Of note though, it is literally just a multiclass of a rogue and a druid with a couple of alternate abilities. It does list the strengths an weaknesses of such a multiclass and advise on play style.
@JonathonWilder
Hey, tech issues are a part of the boards, you're not the only one that had them on this thread. No worries. OSW, guess you'll need to wait.
So for your "Blackthorn" you're looking at synergizing sneak attack + wild shape, likely a 1/2 or hybrid caster (probably the latter), poison immunity, and a thousand faces. A nature camaflauging rogue.
Of note though, it is literally just a multiclass of a rogue and a druid with a couple of alternate abilities. It does list the strengths an weaknesses of such a multiclass and advise on play style.
Yes, get that link, then we can take a look at it. BTW MCAs are a multiclass version of two classes using the archetype swap-out/swap-in process, so it will likely translate ove very well, if that is the case.
#Hivemind
Anything on that we need to add/remove from first glance?
Also, @Taco Man, do you want me to throw Ichormancer up in place of your own MCA? If that offer is still available of course.
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@JonathonWilder
Hey, tech issues are a part of the boards, you're not the only one that had them on this thread. No worries. OSW, guess you'll need to wait.So for your "Blackthorn" you're looking at synergizing sneak attack + wild shape, likely a 1/2 or hybrid caster (probably the latter), poison immunity, and a thousand faces. A nature camaflauging rogue.
--------------Yes, get that link, then we can take a look at it. BTW MCAs are a multiclass version of two classes using the archetype swap-out/swap-in process, so it will likely translate ove very well, if that is the case.
Understood, I was late in replying. I can wait.
Here we go, this should be a good start for getting this together: http://www.purpleduckgames.com/qrogii2
@Elghinn - Go with Blackthorn. It will give me a chance to work up some stuff for my MCA.
#Hivemind
Anything on that we need to add/remove from first glance?
Just going through the hivemind. Hope to have some revisions up today or tomorrow, barring interuptions, life, etc.
Then I can start looking at stuff for the Blackthorn. I am quite intrigued with this one.
@Tyrannical Didn't realize you had one allready ahead of me. So sorry. But the Shinobi stays. :P
@Taco Man
That's fine! I was just wondering if you still intended or not is all :)
# Hivemind
Just wanted to chime in briefly - a bit busy with RL. I love the concept, reminds me of the Eldritch Menagerist, and the approach is simple enough. I love swarmskin stuff so extra points for using webshelter!
* I would counsel dropping the no metal armor thing. Especially with crustacean's being plated in metal (breastplate) is on theme. Also, this is Summoner Primary, so while perhaps thematic, I don't think it necessary. I firmly state that metal is a natural element, just like leather - both are crafted from naturally occurring materials. Gygaxian hangovers be damned.
* I think Resist Vermin's Malice should provide a bonus against all poisons and diseases, not just those borne by vermin - the Hivemind has built up a degree of physical fortitude against inimical pathogens.
* Disease evolution!!! :)
# Hivemind
* I would counsel dropping the no metal armor thing. Especially with crustacean's being plated in metal (breastplate) is on theme. Also, this is Summoner Primary, so while perhaps thematic, I don't think it necessary. I firmly state that metal is a natural element, just like leather - both are crafted from naturally occurring materials. Gygaxian hangovers be damned.
I was thinking that the Hivemind can't wear metal, but rather chitin and bugshell materials alongside the typical druid ones. So you could have breastplate, but made from shell and such.
* I think Resist Vermin's Malice should provide a bonus against all poisons and diseases, not just those borne by vermin - the Hivemind has built up a degree of physical fortitude against inimical pathogens.
This is where 'Toxin Immunity' comes in, inspired by the 'Venom Immunity' of druids. This way, the resistance/immunities are gained at a suitable levels. The reason why it's mostly restricted to just vermin is because plants, zombies and other nasty critters should still infect the Hivemind.
* Disease evolution!!! :)
I figured Disease is something that would be commonplace among vermin, so naturally the ability to spread it via your broodlings would be suitable, glad you like the idea!
@Elghinn So, anything that you would like me to do?
I've looked at the Blackthorn link. Something you can do, is decide what Primary class (roge) features you want to keep, and what secondary class (druid) features you want to incorporate. That will give us a starting point.
It should be a d8, 3/4 BAB, Good Ref/Will saves, 6 skill points +Int mod MCA. The big question is are you wanting to go 1/2 caster or hybrid caster? Do you want this to be mostly rogue with some supplemental druid spells, or do you want it heavier on the spell casting with up to 6th level spells?
once that's all layed out, we can start piecing it together.
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I've gone and cleaned up some of the language and tweaked a few abilities to coincide with already establshed abilities and mechanics
In the Summon Natre's Ally ability, I decided to base the alternative use of that ability on the paladin's channel energy. So, by spending 2 uses of his summon nature's ally ability, he can gain the effects of the wild shape ability (the 1 hour version), but with vermin shape, and usable only up to 4/day.
Hiveminds are strange, sometimes feared, bastions of vermin congregations. The hivemind overpowers his enemies with a brood consisting of aggressive vermin that will defend him to the death. Such broods seem to have been bred in strange ways that they exhibit monstrous features, and in some rare cases, magical affinity. The kinship of these vile creatures is strong, showing loyalty as if the hivemind were their monarch and following his will without unquestion.
Primary Class: Summoner.
Secondary Class: Druid.
Alignment: Any.
Hit Die: d8.
Bonus Skills and Ranks: The hivemind may select three druid skills to add to her class skills in addition to the normal summoner class skills. The hivemind gains a number of ranks at each level equal to 4 + Int modifier.
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: The hivemind is proficient with all simple weapons, the scimitar, and with all natural attacks (claw, bite, and so forth). The hivemind is proficient with light armor but are prohibited from wearing metal armor; thus, they may wear only padded, leather, or hide armor, or even natural armors constructed from chitin plates or vermin exoskeleton. A hivemind may also wear wooden armor that has been altered by the ironwood spell so that it functions as though it were steel. The hiveminds is also proficient with shields (except tower shields) but must use only wooden ones. A hivemind who wears prohibited armor or uses a prohibited shield is unable to cast hivemind spells or use any of her supernatural or spell-like class abilities while doing so and for 24 hours thereafter. Like any other arcane spellcaster, a hivemind wearing medium or heavy armor, or uses a tower shield incurs a chance of arcane spell failure if the spell in question has a somatic component. A multiclass hivemind still incurs the normal arcane spell failure chance for arcane spells received from other classes.
Spellcasting: The hivemind casts divine spells drawn from the druid spell list, but adds the following spells at the indicated spell levels: 1st level–charm person, daze monster, expeditious retreat, feather fall, life conduit, poisoned egg, rejuvenate eidolon, summon minor monster, unfetter, web bolt; 2nd level–create pit, evolution surge (lesser), restore eidolon (lesser), spider climb, summon eidolon, vermin shape I, vomit swarm, web; 3rd level–black tentacles, charm monster, devolution, evolution surge, giant vermin, life conduit (improved), locate creature, rejuvenate eidolon, restore eidolon, spider climb (communal), stinking cloud, summon nature’s ally IV, thorn body, toxic gift, venomous bolt, vermin shape II; 4th level–awaken, evolution surge (greater), hold monster, purified calling, summon nature’s ally V, summoner conduit, transmogrify, wall of thorns, web cloud; 5th level–animate plants, cloudkill, creeping doom, hungry pit, ironwood, life conduit (greater), liveoak, rejuvenate eidolon (greater), summon nature’s ally VII, swarm skin; 6th level–charm monster (mass), control plants, shambler, summon nature’s ally VIII.
Vermin Brood: At 1st level, a hivemind must select one of the following creatures: ant (giant), bee (giant), beetle (giant), centipede (giant), cockroach (giant), crab (giant), crab (king), fly (giant), frog (giant), gecko (giant), leech (giant), mantis (giant), rat (dire), scorpion (giant), scorpion (greensting), slug (giant), snake (viper), solifugid (giant), spider (giant), spider (scarlet), toad (giant), wasp (giant). Once chosen, it cannot be changed. Any creature of the animal type now becomes a creature of the vermin type. When the hivemind summons his eidolon, it has the base form and associated base statistics of this creature (including any special attacks or qualities). Regardless of the creature chosen, it is always of Small size and adjusted by Table: Eidolon Base Statistics.
As the hivemind gains levels, he can summon additional eidolons to his side. At 2nd level, instead of a single eidolon, a hivemind summons two Small eidolons to his side, each less powerful than the single eidolon of a standard summoner. At 5th level, he can summon four Tiny eidolons. Regardless of the number of eidolons in the brood, each eidolon has the same base attack bonus and base saving throw bonuses, but the rest of the eidolons’ base statistics must be divided between the eidolons, including Hit Dice (minimum 1), skill points, number of feats, armor bonus, Str/Dex bonus, evolution pool (but see below), and maximum number of natural attacks. Individual eidolons in the brood must purchase evolutions separately. Once a hivemind decides on the forms and abilities of his eidolons, they cannot be changed until the summoner gains a level. Example: A 2nd-level hivemind can summon two eidolons. Each eidolon has 1 Hit Dice, BAB +2, +3 on its two good saves and +0 on its bad save. The hivemind decides to give the first eidolon 4 skill points, one feat, a +1 armor bonus, a +1 bonus to Strength, 2 points from the evolution pool, and a maximum of two attacks. The remaining 4 skill points, +1 armor bonus, +1 bonus to Dexterity, and 2 points from the evolution pool go to the second eidolon, but it gains no feats and can have only one natural attack.
At 4th level, a hivemind gains a number of evolution points for his evolution pool. Points from this pool can be spent on a wide variety of modifications and upgrades that add new abilities, attacks, and powers to his eidolons. Whenever the hivemind gains a level, the number in this pool increases and the hivemind can spend these points to change the abilities of the eidolons. These choices are not set. The hivemind can change them whenever he gains a level (and through the transmogrify spell). The number of points in a hivemind’s evolution pool is equal to his hivemind level –3 (to a maximum of 17 at 20th level). Evolutions are applied to each eidolon within the brood, giving each eidolon the same evolutions. However, Tiny eidolons lose 2 evolutions to compensate for their size bonuses. The hivemind may not select evolutions that duplicate her broodling's base abilities (such as Poison on forms already capable of poisoning, or natural attacks like claws and bite that already belong to the base form), nor can she select the Celestial Appearance, Dimension Door, Large, or Incorporeal Form evolutions.
The hivemind must dismiss all of his eidolons at one time. Likewise, all of the eidolons in a brood are banished if the hivemind is unconscious, asleep, or killed. However, each eidolon in the brood is sent back to its home plane individually when its hit points are reduced to a negative number equal to or greater than its Constitution score. This ability otherwise functions as the broodmaster summoner archetype’s eidolon brood ability and replaces the summoner’s normal eidolon ability.
Summon Nature's Ally (Sp): This is exactly like the summoner’s summon monster I ability, except that the hivemind can cast summon nature's ally I as a spell-like ability a number of times per day equal to 3 + his Wisdom modifier. He can only use this ability when his eidolon (or brood) is not summoned. He can cast this spell as a standard action and the creatures remain for 1 minute per level (instead of 1 round per level). At 3rd level, and every 2 levels thereafter, the power of this ability increases by one spell level, allowing him to summon more powerful creatures (to a maximum of summon nature's ally IX at 17th level). The hivemind also gains Spider Summoner as a bonus feat, even if he does not meet the prerequisites, and all summoned creatures gain the vermin type regardless of their creature type.
Alternatively 7th level, a hivemind can spend two uses of his summon nature’s ally ability to turn herself into a Small vermin and back again once per day. This functions like the druid’s wild shape ability, except that the options for his new forms include all creatures with the vermin type. This effect functions like the vermin shape I spell, except that it lasts for 1 hour per hivemind level, or until he changes back. Changing form (to vermin or back) is a standard action and doesn't provoke an attack of opportunity. The form chosen must be that of a vermin the druid is familiar with. The hivemind can use his vermin shape ability an additional time per day at 11th level and every four levels thereafter, up to a maximum of four times per day at 19th level.
As a hivemind gains in levels, this ability allows the hivemind to take on the form of larger and smaller vermin. Each form expends two daily uses of his summon nature’s ally ability, regardless of the form taken. At 9th level, a hivemind can use wild shape to change into a Medium vermin. At 11th level, a hivemind can use wild shape to change into a Tiny vermin. When taking the form of a vermin, a hivemind's wild shape now functions as vermin shape II. At 13th level, a hivemind can use wild shape to change into a Large vermin.
This ability otherwise functions as the druid’s wild shape and replaces summon monster I.
Vermin Empathy (Ex): At 1st level, a hivemind gains the durid’s wild empathy ability, but can affect the attitude of creatures of the animal and vermin type, including swarms. This ability replaces life link.
Bond Senses (Su): This is exactly like the summoner ability of the same name, except that the hivemind can only share the senses of one eidolon in his vermin brood at a time.
Resist Vermin's Malice (Ex): Starting at 4th level, a hivemind gains a +4 bonus on saving throws against the spell-like and supernatural abilities of vermin and swarms, including poison and disease effects. This ability replaces shield ally.
Swarm Master (Sp): At 6th level, as a standard action, a hivemind can cause one of his vermin brood eidolons to become a swarm of his choosing. This effect functions as swarm skin, except that it transforms the chosen eidolon into a swarm instead of the hivemind. The hivemind can command this swarm as if it were one of her eidolons. He can use this ability once per day at 6th level, plus one additional time per day every four levels thereafter. This ability replaces master's call.
Toxin Immunity (Ex): At 8th level, a hivemind gains immunity to all types of poison, as well as the disease effects of vermin and swarms. This ability replaces transposition
Create Hive (Sp): At 12th level, a hivemaster can create a hive that provides him with cover. This functions as the web shelter spell, except the hive has a hardness of 6, and 5 hit points for every 5-foot square of web surface area. Each eidolon in his vermin brood grants the hivemind a +2 shield bonus to AC if they are Small or a +1 shield bonus to AC if they are Tiny. This ability replaces greater shield ally.
Brood Bond (Su): At 14th level, a hiveminds life becomes linked to her brood. This functions as the summoner's life bond ability, except the hivemind can only transfer damage to one eidolon in the vermin brood at a time. If that eidolon takes enough damage to kill it, all excess damage remains with the hivemind, killing him instead. This ability replaces life bond.
Brood Form (Su): At 16th level, as a full-round action, a hivemind can touch a single Small eidolon (or two Tiny eidolons) from his vermin brood and take its form. This form is exactly like that of the eidolon touched, except that the hivemind is of the Medium size category instead. All effects and spells currently targeting the hivemind are suspended until she resumes his normal form. The hivemind can use this ability for a number of rounds per day equal to his class level. He can end this effect at any time as a swift action. This ability replaces merge forms.
Summon Greater Vermin (Sp): This is exactly like the summoner’s gate ability, except that the hivemind can summon a single elder worm or froghemoth.
Greater Brood Form (Su): At 20th level, whenever the hivemind uses his brood form ability, he no longer needs to occupy one of his eidolons in order to attain his new form. Alternatively, he may choose to sacrifice a single Small eidolon (or two Tiny eidolons) from his vermin brood to instead increase his form to Large size while using his brood form. This ability replaces twin eidolon.
Table: Hivemind
Base
Class Attack Fort Ref Will Spells per Day
Level Bonus Save Save Save Special 1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th 6th
1st +0 +2 +0 +2 Cantrips, summon nature’s ally I, vermin brood, 1 — — — — —
vermin empathy
2nd +1 +3 +0 +3 Bond senses 2 — — — — —
3rd +2 +3 +1 +3 Summon nature’s ally II 3 — — — — —
4th +3 +4 +1 +4 Resist vermin’s malice 3 1 — — — —
5th +3 +4 +1 +4 Summon nature’s ally III 4 2 — — — —
6th +4 +5 +2 +5 Swarm master 4 3 — — — —
7th +5 +5 +2 +5 Summon nature’s ally IV 4 3 1 — — —
8th +6/+1 +6 +2 +6 Toxin immunity 4 4 2 — — —
9th +6/+1 +6 +3 +6 Summon nature’s ally V 5 4 3 — — —
10th +7/+2 +7 +3 +7 Aspect 5 4 3 1 — —
11th +8/+3 +7 +3 +7 Summon nature’s ally VI 5 4 4 2 — —
12th +9/+4 +8 +4 +8 Greater shield ally 5 5 4 3 — —
13th +9/+4 +8 +4 +8 Summon nature’s ally VII 5 5 4 3 1 —
14th +10/+5 +9 +4 +9 Brood bond 5 5 4 4 2 —
15th +11/+6/+1 +9 +5 +9 Summon nature’s ally VIII 5 5 5 4 3 —
16th +12/+7/+2 +10 +5 +10 Brood form 5 5 5 4 3 1
17th +12/+7/+2 +10 +5 +10 Summon nature’s ally IX 5 5 5 4 4 2
18th +13/+8/+3 +11 +6 +11 Greater aspect 5 5 5 5 4 3
19th +14/+9/+4 +11 +6 +11 Summon great vermin 5 5 5 5 5 4
20th +15/+10/+5 +12 +6 +12 Greater brood form 5 5 5 5 5 5
The following new evolutions are restricted to the hivemind multiclass archetype.
2–Point Evolutions
Disease (Ex): With this evolution, any creature that strikes a vermin brood eidolon with a touch attack, unarmed strike, or natural weapon must make a successful Fortitude save or contract a disease as the contagion spell. The save DC is equal to 10 + 1/2 the eidolon’s Hit Dice + the eidolon’s Constitution modifier. If the creature makes its save, it is immune to the effects of that eidolon’s evolution for 24 hours. The hivemind must be at least 6t level to sleect this evolution.
Ooze Appearance (Ex): A hivemind's vermin brood eidolons take on the appearance of ooze and slime creatures. Spells and effects that target creatures with the ooze subtype or have specific effects against such creatures affect the vermin brood eidolons as if they were an ooze. The eidolons gain a +2 bonus on saves against poison, sleep, paralysis, polymorph, and stunning effects.
At 7th level, this bonus on saves can be increased to +4 by spending 2 additional evolution points. Whenever a vermin brood eidolon is hit by a slashing attack, the hivemind can choose to split it into two eidolons of one size category smaller. The vermin brood eidolon cannot become smaller than Tiny.
At 12th level, the vermin brood eidolons gain immunity to poison, sleep effects, paralysis, polymorph, and stunning effects, as well as critical hits, flanking, and sneak attacks by spending 4 additional evolution points (in addition to his 7th level costs).
4–Point Evolutions
Larger Brood (Ex): A hivemind can expand the size of his vermin brood as if they had gained the Large evolution. This allows him to summon two Medium eidolons of his vermin brood, four Small eidolons, one Medium eidolon and two Small eidolons. The hivemind must be at least 8th level to select this evolution.
If 6 additional evolution points are spent, the brood instead gains the Huge evolution. This allows the hivemind to summon two Large eidolons of his vermin brood, four Medium eidolons, eight Small eidolons, one Large and two Medium eidolons, or any other combination where two eidolons are equal to one eidolon one size category larger.
Alright, everyone can look over that as I start working on the Blackthorn. I relly see the Blackthorn as a sneaky rogue of the forests (or what ever terrain he's in). As such, I think the capacity to choose favored terrain or the camouflagerogue talents will play a key role. Plus sneak attack. Then incorporate in woodland stride, trackless step, and resist nature's lure, possibly a ranger's version of the nature bond (animal companion only), plus 1/2 casting. Sort of a ranger-y/druid-y rogue.
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@Elghinn Well the major point was Rogue backstab supported by, and synergized with, Druid shapeshifting. Of note though is the focus being on animal shapeshifting over the others.
I would actually say focus on Druid special abilities over spellcasting could be considered.
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Question though... what is the difference between a 1/2 caster and a hybrid caster?
If I were to guess, a hybrid caster would involve mixing two types of casting. Yet apart from Minor and Major Magic, Rogues don't have any spellcasting... barely worth mentioning I would say.
But I may be misunderstanding, which is why I'm asking.
# Blackthorn
Just make sure it's well different to the Mistborne Guardian - dispensing with the animal companion may help in that regard... More rogue agent of the wilderness than protector druid with pet...though the Mistborne Guardian is pretty sneaky (though it still has that damned "no metal armor" schtick which actually works from a stealth theme point of view...)
* Giving up a few talents for an animal companion might work to give the Blackthorn that option... "Alternatively, the Blackthorn can instead gain an animal companion...." though how you would balance that against the later loss of talents I'm not sure just yet... ;)
* Given the talk of favored terrain while I think that is a great concept, it isn't really rogue or druid - pehaps turn it to something like the Slayer's favored target... Either way it is less rogue and more Ranger/Slayer - Druid.
Currently I'm not seeing the Blackthorn as a team/animal concept like the upcoming Hunter... It really is up to JonathonWilder... [EDIT - Ninja'ed! Sounds pretty different to the Mistborne Guardian! ;)/EDIT]
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@Oceanshieldwolf
Well I'd sure hope they different, since the Mistborne Guardian is a mix of a Druid and Ninja. Of note as well is the Mistborne Guardian's focus on shadows, invisibility, the use of shrouding mists.
The Blackthorn will be making use of a druid's ability to take many forms and to attack while so disguised. The animal companion and use of Summon Nature's Ally would give the Blackthorn support and flanking. Use of Trankless Step the means of excaping pursuit and a Thousand Faces the means of never looking the same twice.
I'm not sure what your talking about when it comes to Favored Terrain, except for the Blackthorn ability to use trackless step in cities.
Really, I would say the Blackthorn can easily be different from the Mistborne Guardian.
Also giving up Talents for an Animal Companion I believe is easy enough
@JonathonWilder - as I said in my edit, we're all good for diversity. At least conceptually, these two are quite different.
The Favored Enemy was more a response to Elghinn's option of insertion of Ranger stuff.
I do wonder what the Blackthorn will give up/trade to get summon nature's ally and wildshaping and spells with a Rogue Primary. That all seems a lot more mystical to me than Rogue/Druid - I would suggest Druid/Rogue, drop some spell casting and add sneak attack progression for some wildshaping teamup fun, regardless of how close that might be to the Mistborne Guardian - she doesn't wildshape after all...
# no idea if am doing this right
Paragon of Rage
Primary: Anti-Paladin
Secondary: Barbarian
# no idea if am doing this right
Paragon of Rage
Primary: Anti-Paladin
Secondary: Barbarian
Welcome to the thread Bandw2. That's pretty mch a tou need to start - Elghinn will be along shortly to place you in the queue. You can jump in before me if you like, if we haven't already got an Antipaladin/Barbarian, or if we have, we'll make sure your concept is clearly different. ;)
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@Oceanshieldwolf
Well like I said, I feel spellcasting is less important to this concept then the druid's special abilities (especially shapeshifting, animal compantion and summoning, thousand faces, traceless step, woodland stride, and venom immunity).
Though of note, I am condidering limiting the Wildshaping to animals (doing the Beast Form I though III) and maybe plant but not Elemental wildshaping as I feel it is far too flashy and noticeable I believe for thr concept of what a Blackthorn is.
Also, I believe the Rogue talents are expendable as is perhaps trap sense.
#Hivemind
Looks nicely tweaked, I'm glad there wasn't much that needed changing from the base idea!
There are one or two unclear bits however;
* Create Hive should state that the shield bonus from eidolons is gained from each eidolon occupying the hive with the hivemind, not just in general.
* Summon greater vermin replicates the Summon Froghemoth and Summon Elder Worm spells, instead of using gate. (just for certain summoning abilities that don't affect Gate)
* could Bond Senses retain the feature of swapping between eidolons as a swift action? (Also, I wouldnt mind this being called 'Hivemind' again, and the MCA's name to be something different, like Hivemaster maybe?
* Is there a reason why Aspect was removed? I don't mind removing the wild shape element to fit it in should we need, or combining Wild Shape and Aspect into a single ability? or perhaps Brood Form? - thoughts anyone?
* I see that medium armor was removed, which myself and @OSW thought was fitting (bugshell breastplates and such), though it's only a minor thing, just curious~
Other's opinions are welcome too! I'd like to see what others think on this MCA, and if there's any input besides mine and Elghinn's on this :)
# no idea if am doing this right
Paragon of Rage
Primary: Anti-Paladin
Secondary: Barbarian
And here I am! Yes, as OSW said, you will be slotted in before him (which is next in the queueu). Not too many Antipaladin MCAs so that's great!
And here I am! Yes, as OSW said, you will be slotted in before him (which is next in the queueu). Not too many Antipaladin MCAs so that's great!# no idea if am doing this right
Paragon of Rage
Primary: Anti-Paladin
Secondary: Barbarian
I'm not sure how you handle peoples requests as it's not as clear as I'd like in your OP, or the wiki. so do you mean mine is going to come up for debate soon? and finally, how much input exactly do I have, and should I monitor the thread for when it comes up?
#Blackthorn
@Oceanshieldwolf
Well like I said, I feel spellcasting is less important to this concept then the druid's special abilities (especially shapeshifting, animal compantion and summoning, thousand faces, traceless step, woodland stride, and venom immunity).Though of note, I am condidering limiting the Wildshaping to animals (doing the Beast Form I though III) and maybe plant but not Elemental wildshaping as I feel it is far too flashy and noticeable I believe for thr concept of what a Blackthorn is.
Also, I believe the Rogue talents are expendable as is perhaps trap sense.
I think we can totally make this different than the Mistborne Guardian.
What about something like this?
Swap
Sneak attack (2d6/5d6/8d6) = Wildshape 4/day (limited to animal/plant only)
Trap sense = Wild empathy
Rogue talents (4) = Animal companion
Evasion, Uncanny dodge, Improved uncanny Dodge = Woodland stride, Trackless step, Venom immunity, A thousand faces
Table: Blackthorn
Base
Class Attack Fort Ref Will
Level Bonus Save Save Save Special
1st +0 +0 +2 +2 Sneak attack +1d6, trapfinding
2nd +1 +0 +3 +3 Wild empathy, woodland stride
3rd +2 +1 +3 +3 Rogue talent
4th +3 +1 +4 +4 Animal companion, sneak attack +2d6
5th +3 +1 +4 +4 Trackless step
6th +4 +2 +5 +5 Rogue talent
7th +5 +2 +5 +5 Sneak attack +3d6
8th +6/+1 +2 +6 +6 Wild shape 1/day
9th +6/+1 +3 +6 +6 Rogue talent
10th +7/+2 +3 +7 +7 Sneak attack +4d6
11th +8/+3 +3 +7 +7 Venom immunity, wild shape 2/day
12th +9/+4 +4 +8 +8 Advanced talents, rogue talent
13th +9/+4 +4 +8 +8 Sneak attack +5d6
14th +10/+5 +4 +9 +9 A thousand faces, wild shape 3/day
15th +11/+6/+1 +5 +9 +9 Rogue talent
16th +12/+7/+2 +5 +10 +10 Sneak attack +6d6
17th +12/+7/+2 +5 +10 +10 Wild shape 4/day
18th +13/+8/+3 +6 +11 +11 Rogue talent
19th +14/+9/+4 +6 +11 +11 Sneak attack +7d6
20th +15/+10/+5 +6 +12 +12 Master strike
No spells, but she can choose the "magic" rogue talents for some spells, and we can even tweak those so they have more druid-y/summoning spells to choose from. Then he gets the improtant druid abilities, including wild shapeing (limtied), and an animal companion for flanking (level -3 like ranger). then while in wild shape, she can use her natural weapons for sneak attacking.
What do you think JohnothanWilder? If the rogue talents aren't that improtant, then those who like to have some spells can just pickt he minor magic, etc. talents to get some. Ligth agic, heavier on the sneak attack, druid forest stuff. etc.
I'm not sure how you handle peoples requests as it's not as clear as I'd like in your OP, or the wiki. so do you mean mine is going to come up for debate soon? and finally, how much input exactly do I have, and should I monitor the thread for when it comes up?And here I am! Yes, as OSW said, you will be slotted in before him (which is next in the queueu). Not too many Antipaladin MCAs so that's great!# no idea if am doing this right
Paragon of Rage
Primary: Anti-Paladin
Secondary: Barbarian
You have as much control as you want. Essentially you and I (plus the rest of the thread) will work to build your MCA concept together, so you end up with what you want, within the restrictions of swapping calss features. So, yes, continue monitoring for whne your up and to watch the process.
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@Elghinn
I admit, the very idea of the Blackthorn not having access to Evasion and through Rogue Talents Improve Evasion... makes me nervous.
Uncanny Dodge and Improved Uncanny Dodge are also good abilities but those I can live with the Blackthorn not having them.
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I admit having access to no spells is surprising, but because of the work you have done I trust that you know how to balanced a class (MCA or other).
Perhaps new 'Rogue Talents' can be added that allow access to druid spells and another that allows the ability to switch out spells for Summon Nature Ally? My main hope is that the Minor/Major Magic would allow access to the druid stat boosting spells.
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Any way we can have the original 'special abilities' of the Blackthorn added in to give added flaver/something of its own to the MCA? You find them in the link I provided.
...I just got any idea for a Druid/Antipaladin. "Thrall of Jubilex." Slimes n' Oozes.
@Elghinn
I admit, the very idea of the Blackthorn not having access to Evasion and through Rogue Talents Improve Evasion... makes me nervous.Uncanny Dodge and Improved Uncanny Dodge are also good abilities but those I can live with the Blackthorn not having them.
By no means is what I've presented meant to be a fnal version. I'm more than willing to rework things until the original conceptualizer is happy. We can find a way to keep evasion, and the Uncanny Dodge and uncanny Dodge can be selected as advanced talents (we've done this in many MCAs).
I admit having access to no spells is surprising, but because of the work you have done I trust that you know how to balanced a class (MCA or other).
If you are looking for the 1/2 caster (up to 4th) I'm sure i can find a way to arrange it.
Perhaps new 'Rogue Talents' can be added that allow access to druid spells and another that allows the ability to switch out spells for Summon Nature Ally? My main hope is that the Minor/Major Magic would allow access to the druid stat boosting spells.
If we put in 1/2 caster, we can create a custom spell list, and also include the druid's spontaneous casting (summon nature's ally) ability.
Any way we can have the original 'special abilities' of the Blackthorn added in to give added flaver/something of its own to the MCA? You find them in the link I provided.
What ones? I assume you mean Lesseons of the Trees, the Wild City, and Rogue Companion?
#Hivemind
Looks nicely tweaked, I'm glad there wasn't much that needed changing from the base idea!
There are one or two unclear bits however;
* Create Hive should state that the shield bonus from eidolons is gained from each eidolon occupying the hive with the hivemind, not just in general.
Then should we have a limit on the number of eidolons that can be part of the hive mind, say X at 12th, +1 every 3 or 4 levels, until he can include all his eidolons? That way it scales with level. We have to also take into account the possibility of taking the Large and Huge evolutions to increase the size/number of the brood.
* Summon greater vermin replicates the Summon Froghemoth and Summon Elder Worm spells, instead of using gate. (just for certain summoning abilities that don't affect Gate)
Gotch'ya, I'll change that.
* could Bond Senses retain the feature of swapping between eidolons as a swift action? (Also, I wouldnt mind this being called 'Hivemind' again, and the MCA's name to be something different, like Hivemaster maybe?
Even the broodmaster can't do that, so I think we need to follow its lead with this ability. Changed the ability to Hivemind, and renamed the MCa Hive Master.
* Is there a reason why Aspect was removed? I don't mind removing the wild shape element to fit it in should we need, or combining Wild Shape and Aspect into a single ability? or perhaps Brood Form? - thoughts anyone?
It wasn't removed. It's in the table. Aspect and Greater Aspect are exactly the same as the original abilities. As per archetypes, unchanged ability from the primary class are not mentioned, but are, by default, the same as the original.
* I see that medium armor was removed, which myself and @OSW thought was fitting (bugshell breastplates and such), though it's only a minor thing, just curious~
That's why I removed it. Thought it was also fitting, as it is a Summoner primary.
Other's opinions are welcome too! I'd like to see what others think on this MCA, and if there's any input besides mine and Elghinn's on this :)
Me too. So, if others would like to pipe in, that would be great!
#Blackthorn
Actually, Lessons of the Trees is null and void, as sneak attack in PF now works on plant types.
As for Wild City (Untamed City), we can incorporate it as an ability. We can also add in an ability into the animal companion allowing it to "share sneak attack" sort of like "share spells".
Like this.
Table: Blackthorn
Base
Class Attack Fort Ref Will Spells per Day
Level Bonus Save Save Save Special 1st 2nd 3rd 4th
1st +0 +0 +2 +2 Nature sense, sneak attack +1d6, wild empathy — — — —
2nd +1 +0 +3 +3 Evasion, woodland stride — — — —
3rd +2 +1 +3 +3 Sneak attack +2d6, wild sneak — — — —
4th +3 +1 +4 +4 Blackthorn’s companion, spontaneous casting 0 — — —
5th +3 +1 +4 +4 Wild shape 1/day 1 — — —
6th +4 +2 +5 +5 Trackless step 1 — — —
7th +5 +2 +5 +5 Sneak attack +3d6 1 0 — —
8th +6/+1 +2 +6 +6 Untamed city 1 1 — —
9th +6/+1 +3 +6 +6 Sneak attack +4d6 2 1 — —
10th +7/+2 +3 +7 +7 Venom immunity 2 1 0 —
11th +8/+3 +3 +7 +7 Wild shape 2/day 2 1 1 —
12th +9/+4 +4 +8 +8 2 2 1 —
13th +9/+4 +4 +8 +8 Sneak attack +5d6 3 2 1 0
14th +10/+5 +4 +9 +9 A thousand faces 3 2 1 1
15th +11/+6/+1 +5 +9 +9 Sneak attack +6d6 3 2 2 1
16th +12/+7/+2 +5 +10 +10 3 3 2 1
17th +12/+7/+2 +5 +10 +10 Wild shape 3/day 4 3 2 1
18th +13/+8/+3 +6 +11 +11 4 3 2 2
19th +14/+9/+4 +6 +11 +11 Sneak attack +7d6 4 3 3 2
20th +15/+10/+5 +6 +12 +12 Master strike 4 4 3 3
Here's the swaps.
Swaps
Trapfinding = Nature sense, Wild empathy
Sneak attack (2d6/5d6/8d6) = Wild shape 3/day
Rogue talent (2) = Woodland stride
Trap sense = Wild sneak
Rogue talent (4/8/12/16) = Animal companion
Uncanny dodge, Improved uncanny Dodge, rogue talent (20) = Half casting
Rogue talent (6) = Trackless step
Rogue talent (10) = Venom immunity
Rogue talent (14) = A thousand faces
Rogue talent (18) = Untamed city