I really like the inclusion of maps in the new-look modules. I think it's been long overdue and the choices you've been making have been great, in my opinion. With all three modules, the tactical maps have been useful and appropriate whilst the other side has been a terrific player handout. (I have a minor quibble that I'd rather the buildings be labelled "barn", "church", etcetera as opposed to being numbered with a key, but that's a trivial objection).
I do have a complaint regarding the way they are attached though. With the first two, the glue was so strong I was unable to remove the map without creasing the cover of the modules. I put it down to incompetence on the user's part, however with Tears at Bitter Manor I was extremely careful - in this case the glue seems to have hardened or something and a small part of the map was torn. It's not really a big deal, but it is irritating.
Is there any reason these need to be glued in? I've bought plenty of RPG supplements with an included map that wasnt stuck in (or was stuck in with a minuscule drop of glue). Personally, I'd prefer perforation (although that has its own issues and my absolute first choice would just be to have the maps loose inside the back cover).
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I've never had the issue that Steve mentioned, what I've encountered is that once the map has been removed, the area that the blob of glue was stuck to is visibly stained/discolored.
I'm not sure if anything could be done about that one, but as someone that uses some of these maps frequently, the discoloration does irk me a bit.
The glue blob in Tears of Bitter Manor pulled off a small bit of the map. The glue came off the inner cover came off without damage.
I had a similar problem with Reborn Forge, but I wasn't very careful separating it.
The same shipment also had an older book with a map (Guide to Darkmoon Vale) and it game out without any problems.
I had to be extra special careful with this one... never had trouble in the past. I managed to leave the back cover unscarred, but the final (maybe one millimeter) of glue pulled some of the print surface off the map. It's very small and doesn't really bother me because I'm not a perfectionist, but it definitely wasn't normal.
Hmm... Dragon's Demand came off easy enough, Wardens needed a little more effort and Bitter Manor was a little nerve wracking, requiring patience and dedication to remove.
Reggie.
Bitter Manor was easier than Wardens of the Reborn Forge, but still harder to remove than I'm used to.
When I took the map out of Wardens of the Reborn forge, the glue took a little bit of the back cover off. Just a tiny bit, smaller than a printed letter, maybe the size of the "belly" of a lower-case "a".
I have not tried to remove the map from Tears at Bitter Manor yet. The box was really cold when I brought it inside, and I figured I would let the glue warm to room temp. That was about a month ago and I still have not taken the time to try.
The glue blob in Tears of Bitter Manor pulled off a small bit of the map. The glue came off the inner cover came off without damage.Exactly the same as my experience.
Same here for me.
I'd actually not tried removing the maps from any of these until seeing this thread right now, so some of these have actually sat on the shelf for many months until just now. For all three of them, there were problems...
Dragon's Demand: Map was removed easily without any damage. There is discoloration from where I removed the glue on both the poster map and map inside the back cover.
Warden of the Reborn Forge: Map was difficult to remove, although no damage, discoloration, or puckering on the inside of the cover. On the poster map, there are now several white spots where tiny parts of the top-layer of ink was pulled off.
Tears at Bitter Manor: Map was VERY difficult to remove. The glue tore off part of the artwork on the inside cover and has puckered what did not pull free. On the map itself, there's not about a 1-inch long strip where the top layer of the poster paper tore away. :(
I'm with those suggesting that the map not be attached by either glue or perforation. For subscribers, there's no harm in it being packed loose inside the back cover when it's going into a cardboard mailing envelope anyway. For retail distribution, I never had any issues with Dungeon Magazine being in a plastic sleeve if maps or GM screens were included, and those extras are all still in perfect condition.
In the past I have never had a problem but the Map for Tears at Bitter Manor seemed to be much more firmly attached than previous maps. In fact despite being very careful I ripped the map while detaching it. The "rubber stuff" that is normally very soft and easy to remove was much harder and difficult to take off.
In fact, it did not so much rip as it pulled the printed portion of the map off leaving a blank white space about the size of a nickel. In a way this is worse because a rip could just be taped.
Having seen this thread, I was very careful while taking the map out of Tears at Bitter Manor. Unfortunately, it still tore the inside cover of my book.
Yes - ditto on Bitter Manor. Tore it right at the manor, as well. 1/4" by 1/2".
(sad emoticon)
All three modules have presented a problem with the map. To varying degrees the glue has been too strong and has resulted in a slightly torn map or back page of the book.
That said, I have found that ensuring the book is warm (on a heat register for 10 minutes) softens the glue. Unfortunately my Tears at Bitter Manor map still had a small tear.
If I had to choose, I would go for slight discoloration over the colour being torn off of the maps.
Certainly not a deal breaker, but the glue should be improved.
For those concerned with removing the map who havent yet done so, I just got a second copy of Tears at Bitter Manor and the glue had the same issue. However, by laying the book and map flat and twisting the map counterclockwise 90 degrees, then clockwise the same, then 180 degrees, etcetera, I was able to twist the map off. When it finally began spinning freely, it separated without tearing either the map or the inner cover. The blob of glue was reasonably easy to remove then.
The map is still a little "scrunched" but there's no tear which really stood out the first time around. For the next module, I think I'll try lying the book on an electric blanket first.
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For those concerned with removing the map who havent yet done so, I just got a second copy of Tears at Bitter Manor and the glue had the same issue. However, by laying the book and map flat and twisting the map counterclockwise 90 degrees, then clockwise the same, then 180 degrees, etcetera, I was able to twist the map off. When it finally began spinning freely, it separated without tearing either the map or the inner cover. The blob of glue was reasonably easy to remove then.
The map is still a little "scrunched" but there's no tear which really stood out the first time around. For the next module, I think I'll try lying the book on an electric blanket first.
i wish I read this before I separated my tears map... I was extremely careful and still tore a small part. About 1-2 millimeters in diameter. Wardens got crinkled but no tear (thankfully) and dragons demand came off fine with a slight discoloration that I can't see unless I look for it.
We'll look into it.
People looking in, please share your experiences on this matter here, good or bad.
Hi vic.
I don't know if anything has changed, but the map for plunder and peril came out much easier. I was pretty careful - laying it flat and "spinning" the map horizontally until it separated from the cover. This time around, those precautions felt unnecessary (although I'll probably persist, just to be sure). There's no marking or creasing of either the map or the book. It was considerably warmer this time than last time, so if the glue being used hasn't changed, maybe that's another factor.
Anyhow, from my perspective this issue (which was annoying) seems to have been resolved, so thanks!