So this game up in a discussion at a table last week.
Situation:
Witch is by himself (or her) comes across a fighter equal level. The witch probably can't kill him before he dies with just hexes. Sure slumber is great, but a coup de grace is only a critical... what witch can do that much damage with a range or melee weapon?Yes yes, not the character's design but whatever bare with me, its a probably that should be solvable.
Is there a weapon a witch can carry that will 1 shot any (virtually any) character with 1 coup de grace. A critical hit is nice sure, but when you don't have a good weapon it can be still not that effective as running to your survival.
You're a witch, so think basically 0 strength. I'm envisioning some guillotine thing that can be carried out and setup to kill a sleeping enemy - mechanical, magical, or whatever.
Any ideas? You'd have potentially several rounds if necessary so it could take some time to setup. Just having an item in your inventory that can eliminate a sleeping threat would help.
Normally?
I summon a creature to do it for me. If not, Katanas are decent as the penalty to hit doesn't really matter IRC.
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a scythe has a x4 crit i believe it could possibly be the most effective. And the imagery is pretty sweet.
This has become somewhat of a joke in Society play, but is very effective. A band of witches roaming around with scythes cackling madly is some pretty sweet imagery too. Honestly with a Witch the hard part is probably the fort save, seeing as with your damage you're unlikely to just 100-0 something.
You can use a firearm. A fire lance on a crit does 4d6 damage, or if you want more damage and more reliability, go with a pistol or even a musket for 4d8 or 4d12, although those cost quite a bit for a nonmagical weapon.
Remember that the crit. damage isn't the end of the equation. The victim must then make a Fortitude save of DC 10+damage inflicted by crit. or die.
Granted, I'd rather be using a greataxe, greatsword or dwarven waraxe to lop heads off and push that damage skywards, but even a sickle will likely make it a DC17 save.
Personally, I assume that a cut throat or dagger thrust to the brain or heart is a death blow, no matter what. Non-humanoids might be different and so might require a different approach, but a human or orc with a dagger in his brain is dead no matter what his class or level.
I like an adamantine heavy pick. It does 4d6 on a crit, 4d8 if you enlarge yourself. Sure it costs 3,008gp but this thing is the answer to a lot of problems other than how to coup de grace someone. Many GM's in my experience balk at using a sword to cut through walls even if by the rules it should work.
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Mathematically, the prime choices are:
Tetsubo - 1d10 x4 = 22 avg damage
Earth Breaker - 2d6 x3 = 21 avg damage
Scythe - 2d4 x4 = 20 avg damage
Great Axe - 1d12 x3 = 19.5 avg damage
Spear - 1d8 x3 = 13.5 avg damage (low damage, but you are proficient)
Or, the best option:
Tie incapacitated target up with rope and slice repeatedly with a sickle = enough damage (eventually).
You could use manacles before doing the CDG. That way, if it fails, you at least have him chained.
I am surprised no one has mentioned Prehensile Hair.
It is only a x2 critical, but uses Intelligence for damage.
You will only get 1/2 Intelligence to dmg because it's a secondary natural weapon. Probably won't do as much damage as many of the other options being listed.
You will only get 1/2 Intelligence to dmg because it's a secondary natural weapon. Probably won't do as much damage as many of the other options being listed.I am surprised no one has mentioned Prehensile Hair.
It is only a x2 critical, but uses Intelligence for damage.
Only if you have other natural attacks, otherwise it doesn't matter that the hair is secondary.
"If a creature has only one natural attack, it is always made using the creature’s full base attack bonus and adds 1-1/2 times the creature’s Strength bonus on damage rolls."
I like an adamantine heavy pick. It does 4d6 on a crit, 4d8 if you enlarge yourself. Sure it costs 3,008gp but this thing is the answer to a lot of problems other than how to coup de grace someone. Many GM's in my experience balk at using a sword to cut through walls even if by the rules it should work.
This man, he knows what he he talks about. I too am a member of AHPSE.
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You will only get 1/2 Intelligence to dmg because it's a secondary natural weapon. Probably won't do as much damage as many of the other options being listed.I am surprised no one has mentioned Prehensile Hair.
It is only a x2 critical, but uses Intelligence for damage.
Only if you have other natural attacks, otherwise it doesn't matter that the hair is secondary.
"If a creature has only one natural attack, it is always made using the creature’s full base attack bonus and adds 1-1/2 times the creature’s Strength bonus on damage rolls."
Indeed. Many people forget this basic rule of Natural Attacks.
Indeed. Many people forget this basic rule of Natural Attacks.You will only get 1/2 Intelligence to dmg because it's a secondary natural weapon. Probably won't do as much damage as many of the other options being listed.I am surprised no one has mentioned Prehensile Hair.
It is only a x2 critical, but uses Intelligence for damage.
Only if you have other natural attacks, otherwise it doesn't matter that the hair is secondary.
"If a creature has only one natural attack, it is always made using the creature’s full base attack bonus and adds 1-1/2 times the creature’s Strength bonus on damage rolls."
Yup, found it, including the forum quotes from SKR backing up this interpretation specifically for Prehensile Hair. Just make sure you Witch doesn't have any other natural attacks, because those ... make your hair way, way less powerful. /boggle
That being said, with a decent Int bonus this would almost certainly succeed at a CdG from a Witch. Say +6 Int bonus (reasonable). 2d3+18, making it a DC 30-34 fort save from the CdG.
(If you have a second natural attack, then your hair counts as a secondary weapon, and you're sitting at a rather paltry 2d3+6, which is a much easier fort save to make.)
My GM has never utilized the 'massive damage' rule before, this may change but if i can avoid it, it might save one of us players one day too.
I guess i was envisioning something a little more elaborate, but i guess a pick & manacles would suffice.
I was thinking like a portable guillotine, only functional against helpless creatures or something. I guess something hasn't been built or put into normal practice yet. I might have to put some skills into craft Engineering.
The problem is how do you 1 shot someone with 50+ health (without Massive Damage optional skill in effect).
In the past we as a group surrounded the target and made a decision to Coup De Grace all at once, our GM was ok with that because it's possible (everyone swing at a stationary target at the same time). We can as a group do a stupid amount of damage if we all critical. But for one person you're limited to the max damage output.
Don't forget the Fort save effect on coup de grace (this is separate from the massive damage effect).
Level 10 fighter with a Greataxe takes a CdG on a helpless monster with 200 HP. He deals ~3d12 + 75 dmg (3x crit modifier + Power attack) -- say 95 damage. This is not enough to invoke the (optional) 'massive damage' modifier, and would only bring the monster down to 125 HP. But now the monster has to make a DC105 (!) Fortitude save or die because of the coup de grace. It dies.
If you can get a DC30 fort save at mid levels (20 dmg dealt on CdG), you've probably killed most things because of the fort save. Also, remember this doesn't work if the opponent is immune to critical hits (Ooze, Aeon, Elemental, incorporeal among others).
Remember that it is still a saving throw (or die).
Regardless of how high the save DC may be, a natural 20 is always a success, and a natural 1 is always a failure.
All I can say is the Witch can CDG with whatever weapon she wants; hair, heavy pick, scythe, etc. She can set a DC 30-40 Fort Save, and that may be astronomically high for the level.
But if the Fighter rolls a 20...
Remember that the Witch probably has Misfortune up on her Slumbered target. So that Fighter is going to have to roll a 20 twice.
Remember that the Witch probably has Misfortune up on her Slumbered target. So that Fighter is going to have to roll a 20 twice.And she can coup de grace each round that the Slumber lasts.
That will almost certainly be one round, as the creature will wake up after the damage inflicted from the first attempt.
My vote's for the scythe. I would also add that it would probably be best to have some semblance of a Str score. You can probably afford to drop the DC by 1 vs a Fighter to get an extra +2 or more damage when you go to Coup de Grace.
EDIT: Also, you have to be higher than 1st level to do this tactic solo. At level 1, it's a standard action to hex, and it only lasts for 1 round (Slumber isn't on the list of things that can be Cackled. Sorry 'bout it). No time to do a Coup.