| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I had this idea that occurred to me in another thread to make crossbows more useful. As it stands, when you compare bows to crossbows, there is a lot against the crossbow, be it static damage, or rate of fire.
The idea is to introduce strength bonuses to damage, and strength checks.
Basically, in order to reload a crossbow requires a strength check to do it 'bare handed' or a winch to succeed. Using a winch to reload a heavy crossbow is a full-round action, and it's a move action for a light crossbow; if the user has Rapid Reload with the appropriate crossbow, it reduces the time to a move action or a swift action.
Alternatively, the user can attempt a strength check as a move action for a heavy crossbow, or a swift action for a light crossbow; Rapid Reload reduces this to a swift action or a free action respectively.
The starting strength check is a DC 5 for a light crossbow, or a DC 10 for a heavy crossbow. Each strength modifier increases the check by two points on the crossbow, so a light crossbow with a +3 strength modifier would be a DC 11 strength check to reload bare handed.
A masterwork crossbow receives a +2 competence bonus on strength checks to reload the crossbow. Magical crossbows receive a competence bonus on strength checks to reload the crossbow equal to double the enhancement modifier (this doesn't stack with masterwork).
Now, after reading this, you have to ask, "Why would I ever choose a heavy crossbow?" This is something I had to ask myself as well. So the idea I came up with is that heavy crossbows deal double the strength modifier in damage. So a Strength +3 Heavy Crossbow would deal 1d10+6 damage on a shot, but requires a DC 16 strength check to reload bare handed.
If a character using a crossbow attempts to reload bare handed and fails, he loses the attack. For example, if a character had three shots, he attacks, makes a strength check (succeeds), makes his second attack, makes a strength check (fails) and forfeits his last attack do to the failure. If he had failed the second attack, he would forfeit that attack and proceed to the third attack. Keep in mind, that a character using a heavy crossbow requires a swift action to reload (with Rapid Reload), so you are restricted to, at most, two attacks in a round.
Thoughts?
[Edit] Fixed and added a little bit.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I like the idea but I don't like adding a bunch of randomness and time-consuming rolling every time I want to fire my weapon.
If a character using a light crossbow attempts to reload bare handed and fails, he loses the attack.
I like it. Makes sense to me.
This bit about failed reloads though...why only light crossbows?
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
If a character using a light crossbow attempts to reload bare handed and fails, he loses the attack.I like it. Makes sense to me.
This bit about failed reloads though...why only light crossbows?
Because of brain farts :P
Generally speaking though, only the Light Crossbow can really make a full attack. The Heavy Crossbow is restricted to, at most, two attacks a round (reloading is a swift action, even with Rapid Reload).
If a character using a light crossbow attempts to reload bare handed and fails, he loses the attack.I like it. Makes sense to me.
This bit about failed reloads though...why only light crossbows?
Because of brain farts :P
Generally speaking though, only the Light Crossbow can really make a full attack. The Heavy Crossbow is restricted to, at most, two attacks a round (reloading is a swift action, even with Rapid Reload).
Aha. Well, that shows you something, anyway. I can't remember the last time I actually had to know how crossbows are supposed to work in PF. :)
Anything that makes them useful again is good in my book.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
If a character using a light crossbow attempts to reload bare handed and fails, he loses the attack.I like it. Makes sense to me.
This bit about failed reloads though...why only light crossbows?
Because of brain farts :P
Generally speaking though, only the Light Crossbow can really make a full attack. The Heavy Crossbow is restricted to, at most, two attacks a round (reloading is a swift action, even with Rapid Reload).
Aha. Well, that shows you something, anyway. I can't remember the last time I actually had to know how crossbows are supposed to work in PF. :)
Anything that makes them useful again is good in my book.
In normal PF rules, reloading a heavy crossbow with Rapid Reload is a move action. With the above houserule, it's a swift action.
Honestly, I'd rather just see the crossbow get feats which give it a different niche than the Bow (but still roughly equal in what you get for the investment). Just increasing damage and adding a reloading mechanic does nothing for me. It just makes them into Bows that do the job slightly differently.
Sure, the mechanics are different, but having a strength check to reduce the loading time down to a free action means 1)Crossbows will be based around full attacks and 2) Crossbow users will have to invest highly in strength. Compare that to Bow users, who 1) are based on full attacks, and 2)invest highly in strength.
The game already gives the niche of sniping, it just doesn't support it very well. I'd prefer feats which let you focus on that. So it could give bonuses, if you make a single attack from stealth. Alternatively, (what I'd prefer, tbh), would be to be a little bold and give them stuff based on ranged debuffing. Like you could make a targeted shot against someone's knee to cut their movement speed. Or hold an attack until an enemy made an attack to give them penalties on it. Just stuff like that.
And the best part would be, you don't have to restrict the feats just to crossbows, similarly to how crossbows can full attack, but not as effectively as bow users. A bow user could pick up these single attack feats, sure, but they'll have to give up a full attack to make use of it, and they're spending their limited resources that they could be using to add to their DPR. You open up options for everyone, but the Crossbow user especially benefits. (Though, there probably should be some crossbow only feats, since otherwise a bow user could still choose to take the meant-for-crossbow feats, and be better at it than the crossbow user, simply due to having the option to full attack when needed)
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
This is what I did, it's simple, it's thematic, and it makes crossbows useful at least for a niche:
Within 30 feet, crossbows target touch AC instead of full AC.
Crossbow Mastery allows you to reload any crossbow as a free action. How would you have that interact with the house rule?
The problem with adding feats to make crossbows better is it becomes a tax. A feat that fixes crossbow become a requirement in order to function, which is poor design in my opinion.
Touch AC within the first 30 ft. will make crossbows have kind of the same issue that guns do now; that issue being they almost always hit with every single attack. At high levels, you might as well have the martial character just roll damage and not bother with attack rolls because he tends to have only a 5% chance of missing (natural 1).
Touch AC with a crossbow makes me want to play a Sohei.
I like this change because it doesn't add a lot to the normal game as it is. But it may not be for everyone as it does increase the number of d20 rolls made.