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I haven't used Mythic Adventures in my regular Pathfinder games, and wasn't expecting the Spanis--er, the ability to use this book in a PFS game.
Part of the Mythic Powers sheets allows the player to bring their copy of the book and basically have free reign over what they can do during Part Three.
Alternatively, as long as you have a copy of Pathfinder RPG Mythic Adventures, you may apply 3 mythic tiers to your character when playing that scenario; all character options in Chapters 1, 2, and 3 are legal for play, as are the character options in Pathfinder Player Companion: Mythic Origins.
When I ran Seeker's Folly, I looked forward to giving this sheet out, mainly because of the toys it can open up for players, as well as more mythic foes coming out during play. I also look forward to more unlocking boons like these coming up during scenarios.
I am concerned about what could be brought to the table, as I've never used Mythic Adventures. I'd like to know what other GMs have used the book or tips that can be provided for other GMs like me.
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Game changing powers. Seriously, Mythic can completely change how a character operates.
I highly recommend that if you are GMing Part 3 you plan to spend 20-30 minutes (either before the game or the first part of the game session) going over the players' builds. "What was your Mythic Path? What was your first Path ability? What was your first Mythic Feat? Where did you put your stat increase?" and so on. You're going to find that a lot of players have made unintentional errors. Often these errors are going to make them weaker than they should be. It will probably be a lot like when new players build their first PFS character.
If a player shows up without having done the mythic conversion, but with the book, I would strongly encourage them to simply use the options on the chronicle. (Speaking for convention/public game days of course. If it's your home group, that's different.)
Ultimately, unless you and your players are all familiar with Mythic rules (have played Wrath of the Righteous?) there's going to be mix-ups and errors. Roll with them as well as you can and try not to slow the game down. (When I first saw the chronicles that was my big concern. Unfamiliarity has a good chance to break immersion and cause the table to spend more time with their noses in books than actually playing.)
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Tony, I'm sorry. Still not used to writing that early in the morning. Just wanted to get the question out of my head and get some discussion going.
Belafon, have you used the rules in your own home games and is that where you've seen the changes to characters?
The thing is that Mythic alters game mechanics often in fundamental ways. Here's one: Power Attack (Mythic) increases damage done. It increases it more (over and above) on a critical. If you spend Mythic power it gets even better. And here's a 3rd Tier Guardian Path Ability:
Dimensional Grappler (Su): When you have an opponent grappled or pinned and it attempts to use a teleportation effect, you can attempt a Will save against the effect, even if it would not normally allow a save. If you succeed, you learn the type of teleportation effect (such as dimension door) and the creature's intended destination, and then may prevent the effect (as if using a quickened dimensional anchor, using your character level as your caster level) or accompany the opponent as if you were part of its gear with negligible weight.
There's really nothing in the base game to compare that to. My point was that there's just too much to memorize if you aren't already running a Mythic campaign. Both for you and for the players. The possible permutations are far too varied to say "this normally happens." So sit down and make sure everyone understands what their Mythic abilities are doing.
Until the scenario is released it's really difficult to offer tips on GMing the adversaries - again there's just too many possibilities.
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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I think this is going to be one of those cases where you will need to (as a player) bring the rules you're using. And GMs will need to politely but firmly enforce the "You don't have the source? It doesn't work." And make sure your tablets are charged :-)
(laments the theft of his books, again)
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If I run this I think I'll take the simpler approach and just trust the players to get it right (I can trust the locals to not cheat and the ones who bother to read Mythic are fairly likely to get it correct).
I have no personal interest in Mythic and certainly aren't going to read all the rules for one scenario.
I look forward to playing it out of sheer curiosity. Probably won't run it unless there is a lot of demand and no GM interest. Or a really cool boon :-)
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I have no personal interest in Mythic and certainly aren't going to read all the rules for one scenario.
Understandable. Thankfully, Mythic rules are in the PRD so at least there's no book requirement for GMs. So, should something come up, we can refer to that source.
I wanted more GMs to chime in say, like Belafon, what elements of Mythic Adventures have impacted their non-PFS games so we PFS GMs could get a heads up on what can happen. (Reading rules sometimes doesn't give a concrete feeling as to what happens when dice hit the table...)
I like to think that this will open more future opportunities for Mythic Adventures in PFS play. Some are talking about a new Seeker arc, and with this added in to a planned 3-7 scenario, I would like to see what can come about from a 12+ arc.
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RAdeMorris, I'm not running Wrath of the Righteous at the moment, but I'm prepping for said spoilered adventure and I'm also a player in the Wrath campaign that my friend is running, so I can give some small insights from a player perspective and what I'm planning on doing.
First off, in our Wrath campaign, we're about halfway through book 2 and we haven't had that much time playing with mythic powers, but we are much higher powered and the combats are reflecting this. Our GM is throwing extra creatures into the combats and increasing hit points, but we are still walking through combats like they are nothing.
The biggest problem is just knowing what everyone is doing and how they're doing it because this is a new rule set, so there is some slow down to stop, read a rule and explain how that affects everyone. For example, my paladin took Clarion Call as an ability, so I can give everyone a smite evil on my target for my tier in rounds (Just 1 round at the moment), but then you have everyone else at the table throwing these abilities, which further complicates things. Luckily, we do have a physical copy of Mythic Adventures for quick reference.
Seeing these problems with the Mythic setting for Wrath has made me think of some things I'm going to do with my PFS players for this campaign. First off, I plan on passing out a mythic character sheet with the tiers on there and I think I'm going to make cheat sheets as well.
I'm also currently thinking about offering to get there early to help people with their character sheets and the choices they've made. Once the 3rd part is released, I'm curious on what kind of challenges they're going to throw at the players, mythic wise.
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While the third part has not yet been released, I do have to wonder if there will be a boon on that sheet that lets you use some Mythic abilities or tier(s) in the wider PFS universe. That could make things more complicated for GMs running other scenarios, but would definitely be interesting. It would likely also make it a target scenario for a lot of the powergaming audience, making this series extremely popular.
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CigarPete, I agree with your thoughts completely, but I know in the Mythic rules, mythic is something that can be given and taken. IMHO, I think this is a good test trial for PFS as a whole to see the reception to the idea of mythic. I could see this being used in all different ways. If you collect X number of boons during a season, when you do "grand finale", you get X number of tiers, but I don't think this is something they'll let a character carry over to other scenarios. I'm sure the paizo staff will be watching for feedback from this trilogy.
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While the third part has not yet been released, I do have to wonder if there will be a boon on that sheet that lets you use some Mythic abilities or tier(s) in the wider PFS universe. That could make things more complicated for GMs running other scenarios, but would definitely be interesting. It would likely also make it a target scenario for a lot of the powergaming audience, making this series extremely popular.
If that happens in any but the most minor of ways it will almost certainly mean that I'll be quitting PFS. My biggest issues by far right now are overly powerful characters, overly complicated rules, and too great a disparity between characters in any given game. Its hard to imagine mythic coming into the game (especially via a boon) in any way that wouldn't exacerbate these issues.
A set of scenarios is OK. I can just choose to avoid them. Well, its OK if they're sufficiently infrequent that ignoring them is an option.
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I haven't used the mythic rules, but I've read through them pretty thoughly just to get a feel for them. When I heard they were giving out mystic powers, my plan was to quit pfs, they did enough crazy boons with season 4, mythic is much more powerful than that. If they make them permanent boons I will likely play eyes of the ten next month with my group and retire.
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TOZ it may feel like that, but it opens up sooooo many options, especially if the players have the book. Three tiers gives 9 uses of mythic power a day, and most abilities only require one use, such as Amazing Initiative. I'm running a Wrath campaign right now, 5 players at 3rd tier and they can do some really crazy stuff with their 9 uses per day.
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Still working things for my Witch and War Priest (going to use my 4th star) to replay this one. :D Only 17 more to go!
I'm thinking Archmage for the Witch.. (Nanny is going hugely arcane spells) and such...
As for the War Priest. Not sure. By then I'll have Warpriest and Improved Init as Feets.. maybe have him moving massively fast as a Champion.
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For my Mwangian Magaambyan Arcanist Arcanist, I'm definitely taking the archmage path. I'm not 100% sure on this (I'd definitely make different choices if this was going to be a mythic campaign) but right now it looks like:
1st Path ability - Speedy Summons
2nd Path ability - Legendary Item
3rd Path ability - Divine Source (good and animal)
1st Tier Feat - Mythic Spell Lore
3rd Tier Feat - Arcane Potency (via Extra Path Ability)
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Nice. I'd actually be interested if people started talking about what they were making with 3 tiers, what mythic path, abilities, and feats they chose.
I ended up with Mythic Throw Anything to boost his attack and damage and Splash Weapon Mastery thanks to not having any other feats to upgrade to mythic. He'll be much more accurate than before and have more control over his misses for the scenario, which my party will appreciate. :)
He has Defensive Move now to allow him to escape single melee opponents reach and allow him to use his bombs. For the times he has too many threats to safely move, he has Deadly Throw to throw without provoking and have the best chance to hit. When he does take a hit, Mirror Dodge will allow him to escape unharmed. I considered bumping his ability scores with his last path ability, but decided on Ricochet instead. (He went the entire first level of Thornkeep never getting a direct hit, only splash damage, and was called the Ricochet Alchemist by the party. So this seems fitting, if not super-powerful.) :)
My wife's sorcerer went Archmage and took Mythic Spellcasting for some of her spells as well as Bloodline Immunity. So if we run into a fireball, she'll be fine.
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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I'll be applying this to my Archerologist so Samiel has the whole set as GM credit.
I'm hoping someone will run it in about 6 months so I can run my new PC (Oread Lore Warden into Living Monolith) in it. Will be interesting to see what a fighter can do. I need to see if there are mythic paths to increase your ground speed.
"You think stone is slow? Have you ever seen a landslide?"
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I haven't used the mythic rules, but I've read through them pretty thoughly just to get a feel for them. When I heard they were giving out mystic powers, my plan was to quit pfs, they did enough crazy boons with season 4, mythic is much more powerful than that. If they make them permanent boons I will likely play eyes of the ten next month with my group and retire.
Don't shred the munchkin collection just yet, its not what you think.
Playing around with Mythic builds it's mostly like the character suddenly gained 5 to 6 levels. Except they'll still mostly have the same saves, BAB, etc.
There are a few standout powers that are unlike anything released before, but the majority are not much different than characters might have at tiers 7-11.
There's already SO many other character options out there, even without Mythic rules. It's not like you can memorize all those either. GMs will have to trust their players on the Mythic rules, same as if a player showed up with a new book you haven't looked at before.
-j
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Read the basic abilities (as summarized on the chronicle). This will tell you how surge, amazing initiative, hard to kill, and recuperation work.
Other than that I will recommend the same thing I did earlier in the thread: go over each player's abilities individually. The abilities act in drastically different ways. But each player only gets three mythic abilities, two feats, and one path ability. That's not too much to go over.
Again, I think any player who comes without having the character ready (even if they have a copy of MA), you should HIGHLY push them to use the basic options on the chronicles.
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I dunno.
nanny is going to wait till 7th to play it so..
-I can make her 'Kitty' Greebo into a mythic style familiar, odds are I'm going Mythic spellcasting/Lore for 6-9 mythic spells (Like Healing stuff mostly) and maybe Toughness/Mythic toughness or Arcane Armoring for Armoring.
-Simon my Warpriest, it's going to be Mythic Weapon focus, Speed, and Warror priest and such.
My question would be, what if you are running part 3 as a mixed table of mythic and non-mythic characters?
If it's power scaled for mythic, the non-mythic PCs will get flattened. If it's scaled for normal characters, the mythic ones will have a cakewalk.
-j
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My question would be, what if you are running part 3 as a mixed table of mythic and non-mythic characters?
If it's power scaled for mythic, the non-mythic PCs will get flattened. If it's scaled for normal characters, the mythic ones will have a cakewalk.
Aha! Finally found the response.
Those who do not have the Chronicle sheets from Part 2 will receive a fairly simple template (likely as a handout) that they can apply quickly at the start of the game to gain roughly equivalent power, but I imagine the options will be more strightforward than those on the Chroncicle sheets for the sake of simplicity.
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I ran 2 and then some into 3 books of Rise of the Runelords using the Mythic adventures play test material, I've yet to use the actual Mythic book yet in play as the group fell apart. As the GM though, one of my biggest concerns was how combat devolved into a rocket race between the creatures and the players. Everything outside combat was fantastic, but within combat it became an increasingly harder line to tread between cakewalk and overkill.
I worry that same thing will happen with this scenario. We'll see people who are already not that great at character building, get thrown into this lot with some pretty complicated mythic rules and then attempt this mythic scenario and get flattened. Or those that make sound characters, have that system mastery to understand the mythic rules make sound mythic characters and cakewalk the scenario. Which I guess can be said of any scenario.
It could really go either way, what worries me most though is that the writer will air on the side of caution and make it easier than it should be. Mythic adds a level of heroism to the game by making challenges that much harder, sometimes harder than they needed to be.
If mythic comes back I hope to see it applied to a 7-11 that has a hard mode. Its a sweet dish and should be worth every bite.
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Now that part 3 is released, I'm curious on what everyone's thoughts is about the relevant boon to this thread. Spoilering, just in case.
essence for use later. When you activate this ability as a free action, choose one feat that you have. For one round
(or as long as it takes to complete a skill check modified by the feat), you gain the benefits of the mythic version
of that feat as if you had also expended one use of mythic power. When you use this boon, cross it off your
Chronicle sheet.
I think that this is a nice reward for completing this trilogy and experiencing mythic. I can see some of the power gamers wanting to play through this trilogy for this boon, but since it's only for 1 round (or 1 skill check), I don't think this will change the power levels of PFS characters too drastically.
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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Now that part 3 is released, I'm curious on what everyone's thoughts is about the relevant boon to this thread. Spoilering, just in case.
** spoiler omitted **
I think that this is a nice reward for completing this trilogy and experiencing mythic. I can see some of the power gamers wanting to play through this trilogy for this boon, but since it's only for 1 round (or 1 skill check), I don't think this will change the power levels of PFS characters too drastically.
I'll admit I was hoping for something more lasting, like "You retain one mythic spell" or "You retain one mythic feat" or the like.
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I'll admit I was hoping for something more lasting, like "You retain one mythic spell" or "You retain one mythic feat" or the like.Now that part 3 is released, I'm curious on what everyone's thoughts is about the relevant boon to this thread. Spoilering, just in case.
** spoiler omitted **
I think that this is a nice reward for completing this trilogy and experiencing mythic. I can see some of the power gamers wanting to play through this trilogy for this boon, but since it's only for 1 round (or 1 skill check), I don't think this will change the power levels of PFS characters too drastically.
Three words as to why that will never happen: Mythic Vital Strike.
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I've seen what some of those mythic feats can do and even a one time use boon is still going to be a game changer. I would of hated to see what would happen if you could gain a free mythic feat or change a current feat to a mythic feat. Things would have gotten crazy, fast. Pick just the right feat and you could make scenarios like Bonekeep look like child's play.
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I really would not try to run this as a mixed group. I'm sure it's not intended to be run that way.My question would be, what if you are running part 3 as a mixed table of mythic and non-mythic characters?
-j
All characters who play this scenario are mythic, but there are three different "ways" in which they might be mythic. Nobody should be non-mythic while playing this adventure.
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I've seen what some of those mythic feats can do and even a one time use boon is still going to be a game changer. I would of hated to see what would happen if you could gain a free mythic feat or change a current feat to a mythic feat. Things would have gotten crazy, fast. Pick just the right feat and you could make scenarios like Bonekeep look like child's play.
Really? For a one round one use boon? I can't even imagine it changing anything unless the table is doing one room then getting out. I'm running WotR and I've seen what these things can do constantly. One round per career is not going to change anything or destroy scenarios unless applied at the critical time, and then they deserve it.