Tiefling Bloodrager Natural Attack Question

[SeekerOfDragons]

I'm considering a Tiefling Bloodrager as my next Society character, but had a question regarding some Natural Attacks. I'm planning on taking the Maw or Claw Alternate Racial Trait for the bite attack that deals 1d6 points of damage. This attack is a primary natural attacks replacing the spell-like ability racial trait. At level 1, the Bloodrager (Abyssal) gets Claws (Su): At 1st level, you grow claws. These claws are treated as natural weapons, allowing you to make two
claw attacks as a full-attack action using your full base
attack bonus. These attacks deal 1d6 points of damage
each plus your Strength modifier.

My question is, what would my attack modifier be for these attacks since the Maw is a primary natural attack and the claws are at full base attack bonus...

Assuming 16 STR (+3 to attack) and +1 BAB I'm figuring:

Claw 1: +4 to hit for 1d6+3 dmg
Claw 2: +4 to hit for 1d6+3 dmg
Bite: +4 to hit for 1d6+3 dmg

Is this an accurate calculation? or would the bite be reduced to:

Bite: -1 to hit for 1d6+1 dmg? (-5 to hit for a secondary attack? and 1/2 STR damage for the bite?)

Also, would this be the damage and to hit calculations if using bite in addition to a normal melee attack with a weapon?

Any and all input appreciated...

SoD

[SeekerOfDragons]

Alistus wrote:

You never take penalties for full-attacking with natural weapons unless the natural weapon is secondary or you mix manufactored weapons in. In your case, your first example is correct. If say, your bite, was secondary then just the bite would take a -5 penalty(technically it isnt a penalty if i remember correctly, you just use your BaB-5). If you do mix in manufactured weapons, the damage will stay the same, but the to-hit will be reduced by 5 for all attacks, and you'll have to find a manufactured weapont that doesnt take up your hands, otherwise you cant use your claws.

That's where I was a bit confused. none of the sources indicated the bite or claws were secondary, but the bite is an alternate racial trait and the claws were from a class ability. I wasn't sure if combining from these two sources would downgrad one of the attacks to secondary attacks or not.

Regarding the second part, i was just wondering what the bite attack bonus would be if i attacked with a mace and then tried a bite. wasn't sure if the bite in that case would still be at full attack bonus or reduced to a "secondary" attack.

r/

SoD

[Quintain]

If you look at the bestiary chart for natural weapons, bite and claws are primary weapons, thus, your claw/claw/bite routine are all at full BAB.

Secondary natural weapons are those like tentacles/tails etc.

OR if you ever use manufactured weapons in combination with your natural attacks, the claws or bite attacks become secondary attacks (-5 to attack w/ .5 STR bonus).

[SeekerOfDragons]

I wasn't aware of that table, but looking at it now, it pretty much answered my questions. I appreciate it :) too bad there aren't but a couple feats that will increase the natural attack damage in Society play.

r/

SoD

[Mojorat]

Some PC available abilities that give you Natural attacks such as a bite make them secondary attacks. However, if it does not explicitly state it is a secondary attack then it follows the chart mentioned previously.

[Quintain]

You should look at the strong jaw spell. It increases natural attacks by two size categories. The problem with using normal magical re-sizing spells is that you are a native outsider, so spells like enlarge won't work (humanoid only).

[SeekerOfDragons]

I will have to keep an eye on that, though it'll be a while before I encounter anyone that can cast at that level or can get buy any magic items that offer that ability. It would be pretty nasty though, especially since at 4th level I'll be able to enlarge myself while raging anyway...

r/

SoD

[Mark D Griffin]

Is the feat Improved Natural Attack not PFS friendly? I have a tiefling abyssal bloodrager in my homegame, and he has improved natural attack (claws) allowing him to throw 2d6 with his claws while raging. This will increase to 2d8 at level 7, and then become 4d8 once I get a wand of strong jaw for my druid buddy.

[Quintain]

INA is from the bestiary and any feat from the bestiary is (as far as I have heard) unavailable to players in Pathfinder Society Play.

[SeekerOfDragons]

Mark D Griffin,

the following link lists what is and isn't Pathfinder Society legal from all the various sources:

http://paizo.com/pathfinderSociety/about/additionalResources

r/

SoD

[Zahmahkibo]

Full BAB and 1x Strength for each attack is right. Remember that you only have the claws while raging, which the 16 Strength example seems to confuse.

[Alistus]

I may have accidentally deleted my post, but it's a good thing I did because part of it was wrong. When using manufactured weapons along with natural weapons, all of your natural weapons become secondary. So you would in fact take a negative to damage in the form of only using half of your strength. Other then that my post was correct.

[Michael Sayre]

Quintain wrote:

INA is from the bestiary and any feat from the bestiary is (as far as I have heard) unavailable to players in Pathfinder Society Play.

He'd have to gain it from another legal source (like the Natural Weapon Ranger Combat Style).

[Ciabola]

ok related question. I was thinking of building a char based off the same idea, but for a homegame.. While raging can the bloodrager use both claws and his bite <from background>?? the wording seems to say just claws..

[fretgod99]

Ciabola wrote:

ok related question. I was thinking of building a char based off the same idea, but for a homegame.. While raging can the bloodrager use both claws and his bite <from background>?? the wording seems to say just claws..

What wording? If it's wording from an ability or feat that grants claws while raging, that ability won't overwrite your standard ability to make a bite attack. That ability would simply give you more available options when you are raging.

So if you normally have a bite attack but gain claw attacks when raging, you can make both the bite and the claw attacks when raging.

[Ciabola]

the wording is "these claws are treated as natural weapons, allowing you to make 2 claw attacks as a full attack using your full base attack bonus"

[fretgod99]

Ciabola wrote:

the wording is "these claws are treated as natural weapons, allowing you to make 2 claw attacks as a full attack using your full base attack bonus"

Yeah, that's just in addition to what you can normally do. That doesn't restrict your ability to use your bite attack while raging, as well.

[Ciabola]

ok thank you for clearing that up.