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The same country as Trayvon Martin.Jesus f$!*ing christ don't try and turn this into any more of a flame war than Shin already has attempted (and partially succeeded) to do.
The same country as Trayvon Martin.My experiences because of my race and living in America have molded and shaped who I am. Because I'm raising a little boy I have to prepare him to survive in a country where people simply view him as a potential threat no matter how good of a person he is.In what God-forsaken hell did you grow up? I'm not denying your experiences in any way. I'm genuinely curious.And Jordan Davis and multitudes of young black males who were perceived as threats and killed either by law enforcement or civilian vigilantes.
I have to wonder why you think it's a good idea to teach your son that "the white man is out to get him", thereby putting him on the defensive, thereby making him subconsciously more hostile to non-blacks, thereby making him APPEAR MORE THREATENING.
You're just contributing at this point. It's racism whether you're black OR white you know.
Because there is an ugly history that has encouraged black people to be servile to whites, and that *anything* outside of that, in *any* way, equals threatening. The history here is convoluted, but a reality. Blacks were seen as prone to violence in the name of revenge during reconstruction, due to massive amounts of cocaine use and crime the years following, because they were not appropriately evolved towards the end of the 19th and early 20th centuries and so on. Shins son has an inherent right to be as much of a jerk as the next guy without running the risk of being killed harmed or detained because he is somehow dangerous.
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The same country as Trayvon Martin.Jesus f%&+ing christ don't try and turn this into any more of a flame war than Shin already has attempted (and partially succeeded) to do.
The same country as Trayvon Martin.My experiences because of my race and living in America have molded and shaped who I am. Because I'm raising a little boy I have to prepare him to survive in a country where people simply view him as a potential threat no matter how good of a person he is.In what God-forsaken hell did you grow up? I'm not denying your experiences in any way. I'm genuinely curious.And Jordan Davis and multitudes of young black males who were perceived as threats and killed either by law enforcement or civilian vigilantes.
I have to wonder why you think it's a good idea to teach your son that "the white man is out to get him", thereby putting him on the defensive, thereby making him subconsciously more hostile to non-blacks, thereby making him APPEAR MORE THREATENING.
You're just contributing at this point. It's racism whether you're black OR white you know.
Please Rynjin, show me EXACTLY where I said I was teaching my son "that the white man is out to get him."
WHERE?
Because it's not something that affects you and yours it doenst exist? And I have no right as his father who has lived in this country and experienced a lot of these things that YOU and others here have discounted, to actually prepare him for how he's perceived in this country?
My goal is to keep him SAFE. YOUR GOAL is to keep him IGNORANT.
You crossed a line here RynJin. Dont do it again.
Spawn generic? I'm sorry you feel that way, I think he's a great black anti-hero. It makes me wonder if you would accept a black character who wasn't part of a race-based dialogue.To be fair I only read up to the first 10-12 issues of the original run. McFarlane's writing wasnt doing the book any favors at all. And after the guest runs by Moore and Gaiman highlighted the rift in ability between them and McFarlane I dropped the book.
Also, does me liking pre New52 Mr. Terrific count? Because he was pretty vanilla as vanilla goes.
Mr terrific.... I dunno. His book was canceled. Not much has been seen from him since. I loved the fact that he was an atheist black superhero to an extent of but I had to wonder whether or not this was going in a rewarding reverse-stereotypes direction, especially when he started dating power girl (although that last may be jealousy talking).
Mr terrific.... I dunno. His book was canceled. Not much has been seen from him since. I loved the fact that he was an atheist black superhero to an extent of but I had to wonder whether or not this was going in a rewarding reverse-stereotypes direction, especially when he started dating power girl (although that last may be jealousy talking).Spawn generic? I'm sorry you feel that way, I think he's a great black anti-hero. It makes me wonder if you would accept a black character who wasn't part of a race-based dialogue.To be fair I only read up to the first 10-12 issues of the original run. McFarlane's writing wasnt doing the book any favors at all. And after the guest runs by Moore and Gaiman highlighted the rift in ability between them and McFarlane I dropped the book.
Also, does me liking pre New52 Mr. Terrific count? Because he was pretty vanilla as vanilla goes.
Wait...WHAT?!? Dating Power Girl?!?
...
What were we talking about again?
I know what Shin is talking about,even if I don't agree with it 100% and think he should put some points into diplomacy/Charisma come level-up time.
You know I totally would put those points into Diplomacy but I think they'd be better spent on Sense Motive...
Mr terrific.... I dunno. His book was canceled. Not much has been seen from him since. I loved the fact that he was an atheist black superhero to an extent of but I had to wonder whether or not this was going in a rewarding reverse-stereotypes direction, especially when he started dating power girl (although that last may be jealousy talking).Spawn generic? I'm sorry you feel that way, I think he's a great black anti-hero. It makes me wonder if you would accept a black character who wasn't part of a race-based dialogue.To be fair I only read up to the first 10-12 issues of the original run. McFarlane's writing wasnt doing the book any favors at all. And after the guest runs by Moore and Gaiman highlighted the rift in ability between them and McFarlane I dropped the book.
Also, does me liking pre New52 Mr. Terrific count? Because he was pretty vanilla as vanilla goes.
Wait...WHAT?!? Dating Power Girl?!?
...
What were we talking about again?
indeed this only made me hate him more.
I'll just leave this here.
So a seriously flawed survey from Harvard that shows that the minor sub group of communities of rich white people have some messed up views that blacks and apparently men in general are violent? THIS is your excuse for teaching racism?
This is why I support tokenism. Why not teach children that race doesn't matter? Put various races on screen together and have them get along just fine. Pretty soon they will ~gasp~ talk to that person of another race that is in the same class and find out they aren't all that different. And not long after that they will throw out their parents faulty racism and embrace an integrated society.
I know what Shin is talking about,even if I don't agree with it 100% and think he should put some points into diplomacy/Charisma come level-up time.You know I totally would put those points into Diplomacy but I think they'd be better spent on Sense Motive...
honey over vinegar.
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Please Rynjin, show me EXACTLY where I said I was teaching my son "that the white man is out to get him."WHERE?
Don't play this game where just because you didn't say the EXACT WORDS means you didn't say something.
You said you were "preparing your son to survive" in what you perceive as a hostile environment, after citing statistics that compare black and white "violent appearance quotients".
There's not really any other way to read that.
I have no right as his father who has lived in this country and experienced a lot of these things that YOU and others here have discounted, to actually prepare him for how he's perceived in this country?
Which is essentially exactly what old crusty white men are thinking when they pass down their family line that blacks have "a place" and it's not an equal one.
It's wrong on both sides.
My goal is to keep him SAFE. YOUR GOAL is to keep him IGNORANT.
"My goal"?
I have no goal. I'm just pointing out what I see in your posts. You have a very "us vs them" mentality.
It's already shaped your opinion of me, assuming I have some kind of agenda simply because I disagree with you, and I'm not black.
My only "goal" is to make you aware of that.
You crossed a line here Rynjin. Dont do it again.
The internet tough guy act is beneath you.
I didn't follow much Mr Terrific, but I believe that was post 52
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Please Rynjin, show me EXACTLY where I said I was teaching my son "that the white man is out to get him."WHERE?
Don't play this game where just because you didn't say the EXACT WORDS means you didn't say something.
You said you were "preparing your son to survive" in what you perceive as a hostile environment, after citing statistics that compare black and white "violent appearance quotients".
There's not really any other way to read that.
I have no right as his father who has lived in this country and experienced a lot of these things that YOU and others here have discounted, to actually prepare him for how he's perceived in this country?Which is essentially exactly what old crusty white men are thinking when they pass down their family line that blacks have "a place" and it's not an equal one.
It's wrong on both sides.
My goal is to keep him SAFE. YOUR GOAL is to keep him IGNORANT."My goal"?
I have no goal. I'm just pointing out what I see in your posts. You have a very "us vs them" mentality.
It's already shaped your opinion of me, assuming I have some kind of agenda simply because I disagree with you, and I'm not black.
My only "goal" is to make you aware of that.
You crossed a line here Rynjin. Dont do it again.The internet tough guy act is beneath you.
First let's address this last thing. There is no tough guy act. I'd be saying the exact same things that I say to here on this board in your face. Believe that.
Second, that fear of young black men that you've so obviously completely discarded? (Remember you haven't exactly said it but the fact that you're so quick to point out my reaction to it without acknowledging its existence is pretty much the same thing.) not only whites, it's Asians, Hispanics and yes EVEN OTHER BLACK PEOPLE *shocker!!!* West Indian and blacks from the carribean don't think much of American born blacks either.
But hey...keep making with the assumptions there buck-o.
I'm clarifying here not because I give a good gosh darn about you or Arianna's judgement of me but because obviously I did such a bang up job of stating it the first time.
Growing up as a young black male in this country is a very different experience than growing up as a young white male in this country. Your merit doesn't matter. Your being a good person doesn't matter. Your level of integrity doesn't matter. What you look like? MATTERS. There are things that his white friends may be able to get away with that he most certainly won't. If he's with a group of his friends and there's trouble? He's in all likelyhood going to be singled out for the cause of that trouble in the group.
I have to prepare him to BE CAREFUL. Not to hate. But not to put himself in any situation that will have him wind up like a Jordan Davis or a Traavon Martin or any of the countless young black men wrongly murdered because they were, quite simply, young black men.
If I didn't prepare him for that very real reality? Then any of you here basically trying to call me an awful parent might hurt a bit. But since none of you taking me to task are black males who have grown up in the US? And are willfully denying the existence of any such view of black males in this country. Your opinion means exactly NOTHING to me. Come back to me when your raising your own adopted black male children after their first actual brush with how cruel and racist this country can be.
It doesn't register because It's not you and yours. And that's okay. But it is me and mine and better him warned and prepared than not.
Listen people, not all black people are the same.
I'm not Martin Luther King jr. or Jackie Robinson. When I'm struck for no reason? My first instinct is to break the arm that stuck me.
There seems to be thee idea that in the face of racism that I should be consistently turning the other cheek while some of you feel more comfortable labeling me a racist for not doing so while ignoring the actual racist stuff that I'm responding to.
To everyone here talking about this in good faith I'm honestly sorry if anything that I've said has offended you.
I hate how people miss represent things in a false way to portray whatever they want to claim.
Neither Jordon Davis or Trayvon Martin were shot for being black. Trayvon WAS a violent man and attacked Zimmerman and ended up getting shot. The charges in his case were dropped... it was clear what happened. Zimmerman saw someone in a hoodie about on the street after dark in an area that had seen burglaries and falsely assumed Trayvon was the thief. He followed Trayvon and Trayvon got upset and attacked Zimmerman. Zimmerman has the right to defend himself in this country and so after a long court process where Zimmerman lost everything from his job to his girl, he won the court fight. Now in the Davis case you had rowdy teens doing nothing wrong getting fired on by a hot headed man (Dunn) who was angry over their load music and decided to open fire. He is JUSTLY serving prison time for three counts of attempted murder. And would have likely have had a conviction for 2nd degree murder on his rap sheet as well if the prosecutors didn't foolishly try for 1st degree murder which was obviously not the case (there was no evidence this was premeditated in any way.)
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To everyone here talking about this in good faith I'm honestly sorry if anything that I've said has offended you.
Nobody has any business telling you how to raise your kid to grow up in a world that is *provably* more dangerous to him, than it would be if he were white.
It's like telling your daughter not to get in a car and go somewhere she doesn't know (and can't easily leave by calling a cab or whatever), with guys she doesn't know well, and not to accept drinks from strangers. That's not teaching her that every man is a potential rapist, it's just common sense.
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I hate how people miss represent things in a false way to portray whatever they want to claim.
Neither Jordon Davis or Trayvon Martin were shot for being black. Trayvon WAS a violent man and attacked Zimmerman and ended up getting shot. The charges in his case were dropped... it was clear what happened. Zimmerman saw someone in a hoodie about on the street after dark in an area that had seen burglaries and falsely assumed Trayvon was the thief. He followed Trayvon and Trayvon got upset and attacked Zimmerman. Zimmerman has the right to defend himself in this country and so after a long court process where Zimmerman lost everything from his job to his girl, he won the court fight. Now in the Davis case you had rowdy teens doing nothing wrong getting fired on by a hot headed man (Dunn) who was angry over their load music and decided to open fire. He is JUSTLY serving prison time for three counts of attempted murder. And would have likely have had a conviction for 2nd degree murder on his rap sheet as well if the prosecutors didn't foolishly try for 1st degree murder which was obviously not the case (there was no evidence this was premeditated in any way.)
Stay on topic folks.
If you want to debate the guilt of Zimmerman or Martin there are more appropriate places for this.This thread is about nerd rage and opposition to change/evolution
I hate how people miss represent things in a false way to portray whatever they want to claim.
Neither Jordon Davis or Trayvon Martin were shot for being black. Trayvon WAS a violent man and attacked Zimmerman and ended up getting shot. The charges in his case were dropped... it was clear what happened. Zimmerman saw someone in a hoodie about on the street after dark in an area that had seen burglaries and falsely assumed Trayvon was the thief. He followed Trayvon and Trayvon got upset and attacked Zimmerman. Zimmerman has the right to defend himself in this country and so after a long court process where Zimmerman lost everything from his job to his girl, he won the court fight. Now in the Davis case you had rowdy teens doing nothing wrong getting fired on by a hot headed man (Dunn) who was angry over their load music and decided to open fire. He is JUSTLY serving prison time for three counts of attempted murder. And would have likely have had a conviction for 2nd degree murder on his rap sheet as well if the prosecutors didn't foolishly try for 1st degree murder which was obviously not the case (there was no evidence this was premeditated in any way.)
Stay on topic folks.
If you want to debate the guilt of Zimmerman or Martin there are more appropriate places for this.This thread is about nerd rage and opposition to change/evolution
fair enough. Will settle this particular hash in another thread.
To everyone here talking about this in good faith I'm honestly sorry if anything that I've said has offended you.
Nobody has any business telling you how to raise your kid to grow up in a world that is *provably* more dangerous to him, than it would be if he were white.
It's like telling your daughter not to get in a car and go somewhere she doesn't know (and can't easily leave by calling a cab or whatever), with guys she doesn't know well, and not to accept drinks from strangers. That's not teaching her that every man is a potential rapist, it's just common sense.
Fair enough. It isn't my child so I have no say in how he is raised. It is fair to comment on it however since he brought it up in the first place.
We should all do as Rubber Ducky guy suggests and drop this in this thread.
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I'm a white, 30 year old straight Australian male. I have had no experience with discrimination and no shortage or role models growing up.
I know there's a great deal of inequality in this world but I don't know what the best way to deal with it is. I studdied electrical engineering, not social science.
I don't know if a black Johnny Storm is a token black guy or not.
I don't know if it would help or hurt the cause.
I don't know how to best increase the heroes represent minorities.
By creating new heroes?
By retconning white heroes? (which there are plenty of)
I don't know. But what I do know is 'because that's how it's always been' should never be a valid excuse.
Because they way things have been aren't the way things are now.
And the ways things are today won't be the way they are tomorrow.
As for the other two...
Actors are actors. They act.
Did anyone think Heath Ledger could pull off the joker?
That Hugh Laurie play house House?
That Jim Carrey could play a serious role, ever?
This is just casting. We have no idea what the people involved are planning. Now is not the time to judge this movie.
Just take a deep breath, and wait for the trailers.
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The biggest problem I foresee isn't the racial issue, but ignoring anything and everything from the Comic. If you cast the Storms as two different races...as opposed to them being genetic brother and sister in the comic, cast Ben Grimm as a 90 lb weakling, despite the fact that he's the second strongest Marvel character next to the Hulk (Grimm would disagree and say he was the strongest), cast Reed Richards as the same age as the Storms (though in Ultimates he was very close in age, the more traditional has him as the older white sideburns guy), and cast Dr Doom as a woman instead of a man...
It's like simply taking the name of the FF and writing something entirely different then what the source material covers.
At least that's the indications...so the bigger question is with them basically ignoring every character background (apparently), is this really going to be a FF movie, or an action flick which just so happens to be titled Fantastic Four?
The biggest problem I foresee isn't the racial issue, but ignoring anything and everything from the Comic. If you cast the Storms as two different races...as opposed to them being genetic brother and sister in the comic, cast Ben Grimm as a 90 lb weakling, despite the fact that he's the second strongest Marvel character next to the Hulk (Grimm would disagree and say he was the strongest), cast Reed Richards as the same age as the Storms (though in Ultimates he was very close in age, the more traditional has him as the older white sideburns guy), and cast Dr Doom as a woman instead of a man...
It's like simply taking the name of the FF and writing something entirely different then what the source material covers.
At least that's the indications...so the bigger question is with them basically ignoring every character background (apparently), is this really going to be a FF movie, or an action flick which just so happens to be titled Fantastic Four?
Okay first off, The Thing is NOT the second strongest Marvel character next to The Hulk anymore I would think. If youre talking THE ENTIRE Marvel Universe? he's not even close. I'd rate Gladiator above him as well as Thor.
Also, he doesnt need to look like a buff huge guy in human form. All he needs is to be able to pull off THE VOICE when he's in Thing form. Beyond that? I dont care what he looks like as a human. I'm there to see the Thing and hear him say "IT'S CLOBBERING TIME!!!!".
Reed close to the same age as the Storms isnt that big of an issue for me. The protrayal of a strong willed but compassionate Sue Storm is. Jessica Alba wasnt able to pull that off so Kate Mara hopefully will. I think that she's a good enough actress to do it.
And even though Josh Trank has already said that a female Doom is a false rumor and as much as I LOVE, LOVE, LOVE DOOM when he's done right. I dont think I'd be too adverse to a female DOOM is she's able to pull off the presence and the menace of DOOM, which the last guy wasnt. Lena Headley would be PERFECT.
Well beyond any race recasting issues, my general feeling from reading about this movie is that Fox wants to cash in on the same cross over action that Avengers pulled off, by building up to a Fantastic Four/X men cross over.
Which to be honest I am not sure has any chance in hell of working...half of the X-men movies have been utter crap, and the original Fantastic Four movies were rather disappointing. My room-mates and I have mixed feelings about Days of Future Past. Not to mention that, to me, Fantastic Four really feels like it would fit in better either in the Spiderman Universe or in the the Marvel Universe, not with X-men. Granted they seem to be going about this a bit better than either DC or the Spiderman movie franchises, all of which are trying to rush to a Justice League and Sinister Six movie by throwing in as many characters as they can, to the point I question whether they will have any room for actual plot.
By creating new heroes?
By retconning white heroes? (which there are plenty of)
I don't know. But what I do know is 'because that's how it's always been' should never be a valid excuse.
No one's gonna care about new heroes in the big two. Because they're not the old heroes. and because most if not all of the iconic heroes are all white? We're gonna continue to get a whitewashing of heroes. ESPECIALLY over at DC.
I think Marvel has always had more grounded, down to earth and diverse roster of heroes. Which is why we're going to be seeing the Falcon and have seen Rhodey in the Iron Man films. It's why we're going to be seeing Luke Cage on TV. It's why we're seeing Deathlok on AGENTS OF SHIELD.
Would I love to see an actual Black Panther Movie? Sure. But would anyone outside of Black Panther fans go see it? not really sure.
As for Retconning White heroes? I say no. Just so that we dont have to deal with the backlash from the mostly white male comic base. Even if it were a legacy thing where someone like Mr. Terrific uses the name and carries on the legacy from his Golden Age counterpart the base would still cry "We could have gotten a golden age Mr. Terrific story!! instead we've got this politically correct crap. We dont need anymore quotas!! Get your own heroes!!!" Type stuff we heard when Ultimate Peter Parker DIED and Miles Morales stepped in to carry on the legacy...
I agree with you on how "that's how it's always been" should never be a valid excuse but the comic book fan base loves their heroes. And they like them the way that they are and dont want them to change, AT ALL. And if that's the case then youre looking at a mostly white and mostly male roster. That's what they want to see.
I mean people were even complaining about the addition of Cyborg in the JL in the New 52...
I've pretty much cut DC out of my comic buying since the begnning of New 52. The only DC printed title that I buy religiously is ASTRO CITY.
Marvel is very close to being dropped as well. AND I LOVE MARVEL. But a lot of thier books feel like their just following a scripted plan with very little life and or spark. Notable (and surprising) exceptions are: Ultimate Comics Spider-Man, Superior Foes of Spider-Man (this book is as funny as HELL), Captain America, Uncanny Avengers (Every other issue of this book feels like a HOLY CRAP moment. Seriously it's the best X-Avengers book that no one is talking about). New Avengers doesn't come out nearly enough.
I'm a big fan of Valiant and am reading almost all of their titles except Quantum and Woody.
Also Image is more diverse than both Marvel and DC I think. Not a cohesive super hero universe but even within one book like Kirkman's INVINCIBLE you had at least 4 black male characters appearing within the first 20 issues. One of them becoming a MAJOR villian and another one even taking over the mantle of Invincible for a short while later on in the book.
I think to an extent if headway is going to be made in terms of minority heroes and stories it's not going to be in the big two. It's going to be through creator owned books like at Image.
I love Negation. Only guy there without any powers was the black guy and he was the damn hero of the hour leading everyone.
I love Negation. Only guy there without any powers was the black guy and he was the damn hero of the hour leading everyone.
Crossgen series right? Never read any of those although I heard that they're quite good.
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If the director wants his mates to play lead roles, without feeling any need to stay faithful to the comics, and if satisfying the fans of FF isn't a priority, then yes! Go make your own damn heroes! Make them whatever gender, race, nationality and history that you want!
I hate the stealing of the background of the existing heroes, tearing out bits at random and making it your own story. If you want to do that, make your own! Total control, no fan backlash (who don't count anyway).
Make your new heroes have air/earth/fire/water powers in your own way. Have fun. If the movie is any good I'll go and see it, and the race or gender of your characters won't be a factor in my decision to either see or avoid it.
I don't like being treated as a demographic. I like good movies. Well-written movies. So write one, with characters you designed for the story, not unrecognisable copies of beloved characters.
/nerdrage
i have read the comic since i was 5 in 1970, i have never missed a issue since at on time i own evey issue including number one ( a brokered deal but at least i had it for five days lol )
this is screwing with the characterss too much.i hope this movie bombs so bad that marvel can somehow give the first family the treatment it deserves
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Reed close to the same age as the Storms isnt that big of an issue for me. The protrayal of a strong willed but compassionate Sue Storm is. Jessica Alba wasnt able to pull that off so Kate Mara hopefully will. I think that she's a good enough actress to do it.
....
And who isn't too afraid of a physical scrap. Rereading very old FF comics gives you an appreciation for Sue's physical courage back when her only power was to turn invisible.
And I find it interesting that the comics are all over the map on the age difference between Reed and Sue. Sometimes they grew up as neighbors, sometimes he boarded with the family as a student...
Also, he doesnt need to look like a buff huge guy in human form. All he needs is to be able to pull off THE VOICE when he's in Thing form. Beyond that? I dont care what he looks like as a human. I'm there to see the Thing and hear him say "IT'S CLOBBERING TIME!!!!".
Problem being that necessitates ANOTHER background change.
Sorry, I just don't see this scrawny British guy as a football star and fighter pilot.
Would I love to see an actual Black Panther Movie? Sure. But would anyone outside of Black Panther fans go see it? not really sure.
I think they would, assuming that its ad campaigns were just as built up as all the other movies, and the movie was good (so first wave audiences didn't tell them to beg off of it).
The majority of the audiences for these superhero movies aren't comic book fans if I remember the statistics correctly.
Movie goers are more common than comic book readers, after all.
As for Retconning White heroes? I say no. Just so that we dont have to deal with the backlash from the mostly white male comic base. Even if it were a legacy thing where someone like Mr. Terrific uses the name and carries on the legacy from his Golden Age counterpart the base would still cry "We could have gotten a golden age Mr. Terrific story!! instead we've got this politically correct crap. We dont need anymore quotas!! Get your own heroes!!!" Type stuff we heard when Ultimate Peter Parker DIED and Miles Morales stepped in to carry on the legacy...
I don't like the idea of retconning heroes to be of a different race, gender, or sexuality, but legacy heroes are the perfect way to introduce that stuff IMO.
I agree with you on how "that's how it's always been" should never be a valid excuse but the comic book fan base loves their heroes. And they like them the way that they are and don't want them to change, AT ALL. And if that's the case then you're looking at a mostly white and mostly male roster. That's what they want to see.
Of course they don't want them to change. People like characters. If you change a character...it's no longer really the same character.
It's why people get so emotional when the Doctor regenerates. Yeah technically he's the same guy, with the same backstory and memories...but he's got a new face and personality, so the old Doctor is GONE.
That the movie will even bother to go in to the family back story at all is an assumption at this stage.Not really. They'll need to something to establish that the two are siblings.
Thinking they'll do so subtly and appropriately is a bigger leap of faith, IMO.
They'd have to establish that the two are siblings regardless of the race of the actors.
"Hi, Reed, I see you've met my brother, Johnny."
Well as long as they keep typical Hollywood TV writers away from it then they should be fine.
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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MM, going to need some serious citations on your earlier posts. I know what Shin is talking about,even if I don't agree with it 100% and think he should put some points into diplomacy/Charisma come level-up time. What you are talking about sounds a lot like one white guy from middle America wondering when everyone else in the world is going to realize that they're wrong.Gee, looks like I touched a nerve.
Sorry to hold a mirro up to you Shin. Sometimes you have to face yourself and see you've become what you loathe.
Making assumptions about a group of people... shame on you.
Actually do a quick google search on "Why is green lantern white" and you'll get a lot of hits, including the answers.
I just find Shin's "You don't agree with me, so you're racist" drek annoying and lazy. If he wants to be a bigot and generalize a group of people, he's free to do so. I'm better than that.
By his logic, I can say that all of Harlem is homophobic because of this guy. I choose not to.
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The same country as Trayvon Martin.My experiences because of my race and living in America have molded and shaped who I am. Because I'm raising a little boy I have to prepare him to survive in a country where people simply view him as a potential threat no matter how good of a person he is.In what God-forsaken hell did you grow up? I'm not denying your experiences in any way. I'm genuinely curious.
Yuo mean the racist slur using kid who was suspended from school, boasted about his getting into fights and who jumped someone and was pounding his head against the sidewalk?
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And Jordan Davis and multitudes of young black males who were perceived as threats and killed either by law enforcement or civilian vigilantes.
I beleive the Jury got the Davis verdict wrong. The verdict also was not biased by race.
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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Mr terrific.... I dunno. His book was canceled. Not much has been seen from him since. I loved the fact that he was an atheist black superhero to an extent of but I had to wonder whether or not this was going in a rewarding reverse-stereotypes direction, especially when he started dating power girl (although that last may be jealousy talking).Spawn generic? I'm sorry you feel that way, I think he's a great black anti-hero. It makes me wonder if you would accept a black character who wasn't part of a race-based dialogue.To be fair I only read up to the first 10-12 issues of the original run. McFarlane's writing wasnt doing the book any favors at all. And after the guest runs by Moore and Gaiman highlighted the rift in ability between them and McFarlane I dropped the book.
Also, does me liking pre New52 Mr. Terrific count? Because he was pretty vanilla as vanilla goes.
He's currently on Earth 2, but the cast of that book is so big, they really need another book (or three!) to take care of all the characters.
(Aside: My first exposure to him actually doing something was in the Final Crisis novel adeptation. I say 'doing something' because he was just the switchboard operator in Justice League.)
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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I mean people were even complaining about the addition of Cyborg in the JL in the New 52...I might be guilty of that one, but it is more anger over who tey chose to remove to make room for him. The Martian Manhunter is my favorite DC character, and they wrote a founding member of the JL out to make room for someone else.
my complaints about Cyborg in the reboot were the erasing of the titans history.
Given that he was part of Robinson's Justice League preboot...
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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No one's gonna care about new heroes in the big two. Because they're not the old heroes. and because most if not all of the iconic heroes are all white? We're gonna continue to get a whitewashing of heroes. ESPECIALLY over at DC.
Yeah, because Kathy Kane, Renee Montoya, Stephanie Brown and Cassandra Cain never had any followings, Bart Allen was never liked, and Virgil was never popular enough to have a TV show...
Hell, Victor Stone was never liked when he was brought out for the New Teen Titans. No one has ever heard of him since he's faded into obscurity...
MM, going to need some serious citations on your earlier posts. I know what Shin is talking about,even if I don't agree with it 100% and think he should put some points into diplomacy/Charisma come level-up time. What you are talking about sounds a lot like one white guy from middle America wondering when everyone else in the world is going to realize that they're wrong.Gee, looks like I touched a nerve.
Sorry to hold a mirro up to you Shin. Sometimes you have to face yourself and see you've become what you loathe.
Making assumptions about a group of people... shame on you.
Actually do a quick google search on "Why is green lantern white" and you'll get a lot of hits, including the answers.
I just find Shin's "You don't agree with me, so you're racist" drek annoying and lazy. If he wants to be a bigot and generalize a group of people, he's free to do so. I'm better than that.
By his logic, I can say that all of Harlem is homophobic because of this guy. I choose not to.
That's yours and a few others fairly myopic interpretation of what I'm saying. And I'm also looking to see where I've personally insulted ANY of you. Like I said before I'm not gonna sit and play the simple, subservient negro for you or anyone else who blithely ignores things that don't immediately effects them. You want to do that FINE. But don't tell me that my concerns are completely invalid by waving your hands and going HEY WHAT ABOUT THIS OVER HERE.
No one's gonna care about new heroes in the big two. Because they're not the old heroes. and because most if not all of the iconic heroes are all white? We're gonna continue to get a whitewashing of heroes. ESPECIALLY over at DC.
Yeah, because Kathy Kane, Renee Montoya, Stephanie Brown and Cassandra Cain never had any followings, Bart Allen was never liked, and Virgil was never popular enough to have a TV show...
Hell, Victor Stone was never liked when he was brought out for the New Teen Titans. No one has ever heard of him since he's faded into obscurity...
Of all the wrong things here, the only one I will comment on is that the static that has shown up on tv bares little resemblance to the one in the comic.
Yuo mean the racist slur using kid who was suspended from school, boasted about his getting into fights and who jumped someone and was pounding his head against the sidewalk?The same country as Trayvon Martin.My experiences because of my race and living in America have molded and shaped who I am. Because I'm raising a little boy I have to prepare him to survive in a country where people simply view him as a potential threat no matter how good of a person he is.In what God-forsaken hell did you grow up? I'm not denying your experiences in any way. I'm genuinely curious.
Translation: this uppity little darkie deserved to be murdered by this fine upstanding citizen who was told NOT to approach the uppity negro and wait for the police.
I see you for what you are Matthew. You call me a bigot but I think that you're ignoring your own reflection. Liking black comic book characters isn't the same as liking ACTUAL black people. Actual people and their situations are a bit more complex. You discount those experiences and how those people cope with them for the simple black and white attitude of "oh he's not mild mannered and subservient like the other negroes!! He's a bigot!!!"
I'm not a fictional character Matthew. You don't know me, at all. Im saying nothing, NOTHING and with no less passion than LGBT advocates on other threads have said about being LGBT. And there are waaaaaaay more of them here. Go pick a fight with them.
Man, I can't get this day started without extra foam atop my cappuccino...
There we go....
Man, I can't get this day started without extra foam atop my cappuccino...
There we go....
Sorry man. I thought we were back to talking about comics and movies again and then...well you know...
I don't drink coffee by the way. But I appreciate the gesture.
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Overall myopia and naivete, not necessarily bigotry and ignorance, seem to be the main problems here. Let's calm down, folks. Remember - just because it hasn't happened to you or you can't fathom of it happening doesn't mean something is impossible.
I just find Shin's "You don't agree with me, so you're racist" drek annoying and lazy. If he wants to be a bigot and generalize a group of people, he's free to do so. I'm better than that.
Actually NO, YOURE NOT.
You just called the black guy who you'e chosen to pick a fight with intellectually lazy.
In a thread where people are discussing super hero comics and the validity of someone of a different race playing a pre-established white character.
ME intellectually lazy in THIS THREAD?
*Booster Gold Laugh*BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!*Booster Gold Laugh*