Question is in the title really. Im also interested in a page reference for the rules about general multiplier stacking.
As for why, the question came up in relation to a bite attack using Dragon Style. Bite adds 1.5 str, while Dragon Style lets the first unarmed strike (bite in this case through Feral Combat Training Feat) deal 1.5x str.
If x2 + x2 = x3
Is x1.5 + x1.5 = x2?
Multiplying: When you are asked to apply more than
one multiplier to a roll, the multipliers are not multiplied
by one another. Instead, you combine them into a single
multiplier, with each extra multiple adding 1 less than its
value to the first multiple. For example, if you are asked to
apply a ×2 multiplier twice, the result would be ×3, not ×4.
So yes, adding a 1.5 multiplier to a 1.5 multiplier does yield an x2 multiplier.
I don't have the actual page of the Core Rulebook handy, but in the PRD, it is under 'Combat' - 'Damage' - 'Multiplying Damage' and states that each multiplier is used against the base damage total, not in series.
CRB wrote:
Multiplying: When you are asked to apply more than
one multiplier to a roll, the multipliers are not multiplied
by one another. Instead, you combine them into a single
multiplier, with each extra multiple adding 1 less than its
value to the first multiple. For example, if you are asked to
apply a ×2 multiplier twice, the result would be ×3, not ×4.So yes, adding a 1.5 multiplier to a 1.5 multiplier does yield an x2 multiplier.
Glorious! "Chompy" may only be a single attack kinda guy, but man is it going to be a nasty bite when it hits!
Think of it as whatever you are multiplying is a multiple of the base number.
So say I have a base number of +4 to damage (or whatever) and I have two multiples of 1.5 to apply. Normal math would say 4*1.5*1.5=9, but that is NOT how it is done in Pathfinder as you only multiply them by the base. So it would be 4 + 4*.5 + 4*.5 = 8 or Base + (base*.5) + (base*.5).
Two doubles or a double and a triple or a double and 1.5 would all look like this:
Base + (Base*1) + (Base*1)
Base + (Base*1) + (Base*2)
Base + (Base*1) + (Base*.5)
etc...
Question where are you getting the fractional multiplier from?
When doing crits the marh for x3 damage crits witu a x2 muktiplier is x4 damage is correct.
But the only time I ever see fractional multipliets is in relation to str damage and that seems to be added. Where else would yoi get a fractional multiplier from?
I dont necro much, but felt like answering this last question.
Dragon Style lets you add 1.5x str on the first unarmed hit in a round.
A bite attack, if it is the only natural attack you have, adds 1.5x str to damage.
So you are getting a 1.5x multiplier to your str damage twice.
Dragon Style doesn't stack like that.
Dragon Style allows you to do 1.5x STR instead of your normal STR. Usually you would deal 1x STR normally, but if you're dealing .5x STR for, say, an offhand unarmed strike, you would get the full 1.5x STR for Dragon Style. Dragon Style overlaps, it doesn't stack. The same goes if you're dealing 1.5x STR for some reason
There is no "instead of your normal str" clause in the feat.
If anything, if it did, it would be useless to monks, since Flurry would set it back to 1x str.
Naturally.
There is no "instead of your normal str" clause in the feat.
If anything, if it did, it would be useless to monks, since Flurry would set it back to 1x str.
1 Flurry wouldn't set it back since specific overrides general.
2 The rules for multiplying rolls are actually only for multiplying rolls and wouldn't apply to multiplying only a bonus.
3 Like bonuses don't stack, so a STR bonus wouldn't stack with a STR bonus.
So yes, adding a 1.5 multiplier to a 1.5 multiplier does yield an x2 multiplier.Multiplying: When you are asked to apply more than
one multiplier to a roll, the multipliers are not multiplied
by one another. Instead, you combine them into a single
multiplier, with each extra multiple adding 1 less than its
value to the first multiple. For example, if you are asked to
apply a ×2 multiplier twice, the result would be ×3, not ×4.
Yup, this.
The first multiplier (which one comes "first" doesn't actually matter as long as they're all > 1x, which they should be) is the only one applied as-is. Any multipliers after that get 1 subtracted from them and then you add the difference to the first multiplier.
Say you have a x2.5 multiplier, a x3 multiplier, and a x1.5 multiplier.
2.5 +(3-1) +(1.5-1) = x5
3 +(2.5-1) +(1.5-1) = x5
1.5 +(2.5-1) +(3-1) = x5
It always ends up being a x5 multiplier when all three combine, no matter what order you choose.
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There is no "instead of your normal str" clause in the feat.
If anything, if it did, it would be useless to monks, since Flurry would set it back to 1x str.
1 Flurry wouldn't set it back since specific overrides general.
2 The rules for multiplying rolls are actually only for multiplying rolls and wouldn't apply to multiplying only a bonus.
3 Like bonuses don't stack, so a STR bonus wouldn't stack with a STR bonus.
+1
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There is no "instead of your normal str" clause in the feat.
If anything, if it did, it would be useless to monks, since Flurry would set it back to 1x str.
1 Flurry wouldn't set it back since specific overrides general.
2 The rules for multiplying rolls are actually only for multiplying rolls and wouldn't apply to multiplying only a bonus.
3 Like bonuses don't stack, so a STR bonus wouldn't stack with a STR bonus.
Until further notice, what type of bonus is strength? Is it insight? There is no "attribute" bonus yet, and the times it does say "strength bonus" it is simply referring to a positive strength modifier.
With that kinda of logic, things like Kirin Strike and Focused Shot don't mix, or Arcane Accuracy and "Critical Perfection (From the Kensai Archetype). There are tons of things that stop working as expected because of that.
Though you still can stack those because of another reason. It's not an addition operation, but rather a replacement operation.
While using this style, you gain a +2 bonus on saving throws against sleep effects, paralysis effects, and stunning effects. You ignore difficult terrain when you charge, run, or withdraw. You can also charge through squares that contain allies. Further, you can add 1-1/2 times your Strength bonus on the damage roll for your first unarmed strike on a given round.
Normal: You cannot charge or run through difficult terrain, and you cannot charge through a square that contains an ally. With an unarmed strike, you usually add your Strength bonus on damage rolls.
It doesn't add 1.5 times your strength, but changes it from what it was (In this case, 1.5) to 1.5.