Starting Combat - Being Cool


Rules Questions

Sczarni

Let's say, I'm a Druid.

I want to be all cool on the start of my round. I want to take out two wands, toss them up into the air, Wildshape(Air Elemental in Humanoid Form) and drop into Snake Style, then catch those two wands.

Is this possible in the first round?

If not, what and how many actions would doing the equivalent cost me(dropping instead of catching for instance)?

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

Well, with two Gloves of Storing, maybe.


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blackbloodtroll wrote:
Well, with two Gloves of Storing, maybe.

No such animal - Glove of Storing states you can only wear one glove. You get extra utility but you always look like Michael Jackson.

Shadow Lodge

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Kazumetsa Raijin wrote:

Let's say, I'm a Druid.

I want to be all cool on the start of my round. I want to take out two wands, toss them up into the air, Wildshape(Air Elemental in Humanoid Form) and drop into Snake Style, then catch those two wands.

Is this possible in the first round?

If not, what and how many actions would doing the equivalent cost me(dropping instead of catching for instance)?

Drawing a wand is a move action, Wildshape is standard, and assuming Snake Style is a swift. You are describing it fancy but that is all you are doing except for the extra wand which you technically can't do but I would give it to you were I the GM just for the rule of cool.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

It really depends what action a DM would rule the throwing up the wands in the air, and catching them would be.

I forgot about that part of Gloves of Storing. You can still wear a mundane glove on the other hand.


The tossing and catching part could be purely fluff, I'd say, since you mechanically end up at the same state if you just wildshape while holding them (you don't need free hands to wildshape, right?). The only snag might be drawing two wands at once, since retrieving stored items is a move action. If you have two-weapon fighting, you could make a case for them counting as weapons and draw two at once that way.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

Well, a Spring-Loaded Wrist Sheathe will allow for one Wand to be pulled out as a Swift action. Glove of Storing for the other as a Free action.

Sczarni

@Emo Duck: That makes sense. I think he would approve the fluff as long as it came out to the same action usage.
Actually, I do not know if I'm holding wands in my hands, if those would Meld with me while I Wildshape or not... that whole "Melding" thing is the other tricky part I'm trying to figure out.

@blackbloodtroll: Nice! I'll keep those in mind. I get the feeling I'll end up with one of those.


Assuming no Quick Draw ...

Two move actions to draw the wands.
Whatever action Wild Shape takes.

Flipping them in the air for no mechanical benefit is just special effects and is part of drawing the wands.

Sczarni

Zhayne wrote:

Assuming no Quick Draw ...

Two move actions to draw the wands.
Whatever action Wild Shape takes.

Flipping them in the air for no mechanical benefit is just special effects and is part of drawing the wands.

Would the Wands meld into my Wildshape(Air Elemental Humanoid Form) while holding them though? That's that other thing I'm trying to avoid.

I can't use Quick Draw unfortunately. "Alchemical items, potions, scrolls, and wands cannot be drawn quickly using this feat." >.<


For one thing, tossing the wands in the air is not the same as simply drawing them. When the Druid Wildshapes all of his gear, including the wands, drawn or not, will meld into his new Elemental form. The only way to circumvent this is by dropping the wands before changing.

Essentially, tossing the wands up in the air is achieving the action economy of dropping the wands (free actions) and then picking them up (move actions that provoke).

Personally, I might houslerule that you could toss a wand into the air, act, and catch it as a move action that does not provoke with a successful Acrobatics check. RAW, by my interpretation, a tossed wand would start falling immediately (@ 500ft/rd), so you wouldn't have time to Wildshape.

Edit:

Polymorph:
PRD wrote:
When you cast a polymorph spell that changes you into a creature of the animal, dragon, elemental, magical beast, plant, or vermin type, all of your gear melds into your body. Items that provide constant bonuses and do not need to be activated continue to function while melded in this way (with the exception of armor and shield bonuses, which cease to function). Items that require activation cannot be used while you maintain that form. While in such a form, you cannot cast any spells that require material components (unless you have the Eschew Materials or Natural Spell feat), and can only cast spells with somatic or verbal components if the form you choose has the capability to make such movements or speak, such as a dragon. Other polymorph spells might be subject to this restriction as well, if they change you into a form that is unlike your original form (subject to GM discretion). If your new form does not cause your equipment to meld into your form, the equipment resizes to match your new size.

*emphasis mine

All you gear melds, there's no exception for held items.


Eh. Free action toss, shift, free action catch.


Zhayne wrote:
Eh. Free action toss, shift, free action catch.

So, then, an extensive juggling show would be a series of free actions that take no time to perform.

Sczarni

Aaaahh. I see now. Okay. I'll try to get him to allow the refluff for throwing it to be cool, if not, then I'll stick to dropping it. Good god if an opponent grabbed it and broke or stole it... I'd be one sad panda.

Shadow Lodge

blackbloodtroll wrote:
Well, a Spring-Loaded Wrist Sheathe will allow for one Wand to be pulled out as a Swift action. Glove of Storing for the other as a Free action.

With the initial scenario that won't work because assuming Snake Style takes a swift action and you can only do one.


Tossing a wand in the air and catching it should be a move action, well at the very least catching it. Really what the op wants to do is not remotely possible in one round. In fact i am not sure he can do it in two.

Shadow Lodge

Mojorat wrote:
Tossing a wand in the air and catching it should be a move action, well at the very least catching it. Really what the op wants to do is not remotely possible in one round. In fact i am not sure he can do it in two.

The tossing and catching is just fluff description. It is really irrelevant. He could draw one wand, Wildshape and assume Snake Style in one round easily. It is the extra wand that he couldn't technically do.


Actually, my first thought was that it wasnt a fluff description. I asssumed it was because he didnt want the wands sucked inside his body when he was wild shaping into an elemental.

However, as a elemental can technically hold things I have no idea if they would get sucked inside when he changed shape.


PatientWolf wrote:
Mojorat wrote:
Tossing a wand in the air and catching it should be a move action, well at the very least catching it. Really what the op wants to do is not remotely possible in one round. In fact i am not sure he can do it in two.
The tossing and catching is just fluff description. It is really irrelevant. He could draw one wand, Wildshape and assume Snake Style in one round easily. It is the extra wand that he couldn't technically do.

Isn't the question whether you can use a "fluff" maneuver to bypass having the wands absorbed into the new wildshaped form?

Do held items merge with a new form or is it only carried items?

Dark Archive

PatientWolf wrote:
Mojorat wrote:
Tossing a wand in the air and catching it should be a move action, well at the very least catching it. Really what the op wants to do is not remotely possible in one round. In fact i am not sure he can do it in two.
The tossing and catching is just fluff description. It is really irrelevant. He could draw one wand, Wildshape and assume Snake Style in one round easily. It is the extra wand that he couldn't technically do.

He wants to toss and catch to avoid this line from the Magic section of the PRD:

Polymorph wrote:
When you cast a polymorph spell that changes you into a creature of the animal, dragon, elemental, magical beast, plant, or vermin type, all of your gear melds into your body. Items that provide constant bonuses and do not need to be activated continue to function while melded in this way (with the exception of armor and shield bonuses, which cease to function). Items that require activation cannot be used while you maintain that form.

Since, by default, even a humanoid elemental is still an elemental and thus all his gear would meld into the new form. Since the wand would be merged, it would not be usable (at least per RAW).

Shadow Lodge

Happler wrote:


Since, by default, even a humanoid elemental is still an elemental and thus all his gear would meld into the new form. Since the wand would be merged, it would not be usable (at least per RAW).

I see! So unlike the implication in the thread title the tossing and catching isn't just to look cool he is trying to avoid a consequence. Had me fooled too!


Pathfinder Companion, Maps Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

I just noticed something interesting -- that rule mentions a non-existent type. In Pathfinder, Elemental is now a sub-type of Outsider rather than its own type. Not that that would solve the problem once it is errataed in the obvious way, of course.

Sczarni

I think I've abandoned the idea of two wands at this point. This did help me understand the rules a little better for wands and wildshape, and I truly appreciate all of your help.

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