So this is sorta amusing but i'm wondering how much it sucks.
Crossbow (yeah crossbows aren't great and all I know, bow if one wanted since i htink focused shot works on bows)
Conductive +1 crossbow, focused shot, conducted bomb, (and if grenadier) alchemist solution on it. You get 3x int on it, plus bomb damage, plus alch flask's 2d6 (or amusingly cover them in caltrops and do 1d6), and normal cross bow damage. and depending on your GM vital strike
at say lv 11 ish (probably would have a lot more int but lets go with +7), I wonder how sucky this would be? 1d8 xbow, 6d6 bomb, 2d6 flask, +21 int. I suppose if you have str you'd get str too on a bow.
How sucky is this damage? It certainly eats resources 2bombs, and if your a grenadier also move action. Though if you aren't one, and drop the 2d6+int you can keep moving with that shot on the run feat or fly by I think (can't remember if it's move and use a standard action or if it's something else)
Though it would also be extremly amusing to do it with say, a flask thrower, then you woudln't need to be a gren (though if you did that might be amusing to apply flask stuff to a flask)
Oh asking cause I've never played above 10 in a real game haha. and an alchemist tends to not get a ton off attacks with bab (outside of say rapid shot, two weapon etc). I know usually ranged is all about mass attacks (say a crap ton of bombs with fast bomb or tons of shots )
Neat. I might steal this trick for a game.
Oh it just occured to me too
those focused extracts that lose the AOE but add 2x int?
I guess that would also apply..
I really like this idea the more I play with it. Though I like poison use so it's a bit sad to take gren for me, but its just so useful damage wise (2d6+int...isn't a lot but it isn't a little)
edit: there's also kirin strike (which would help in CQC I guess with the unarmed strikes) but that's some painful swift actions before it's usable.
For a sniper shot though? Thats a lot of int stacking~
Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
I've used a variant of this in PFS to good effect. If you use the Grenadiers' Alchemical Weapon feature with the Explosive Missile discovery and the Targeted Bomb Admixture extract you can get some great damage. Add in Bulls-eye shot from FoP to spend your move action and you have great economy of action, too. I played this as a half-elf to get proficiency with heavy repeating crossbow to circumvent Rapid Reload. I'm also fairly sure Vital Strike doesn't work with Explosive Missile Discovery. But you don't really need Vital Strike for more damage. Throw in some minor buffs like Aspect of the Falcon, Gravity Bow, and use the Hybridization Funnel, and you get some funny shenanigans. Though the build has only one shot per round, it has good to-hit, damage, range, and multiple de-buffs. Note the downsides: it can be more expensive (WAY MORE) than a gunslinger, and Deflect Arrows or Wind Wall can shut down the main attack option completely. I call it my Anti-Material/Sniper build, even though Pathfinder battles never occurs at the ranges this guy can hit!
Where are you getting 3x INT to damage? As far as I can tell you'd only get 2x using your method.
1x Focused Shot
1x "Conducted Weapon channeling the Bomb Su"
Conducted says you expend two uses of the magical ability (bombs) to channel it through the weapon to the struck opponent, which suffers the effects of both the weapon attack and the special ability. For example, a paladin who strikes an undead opponent with her conductive greatsword can expend two uses of her lay on hands ability (a supernatural melee touch attack) to deal both greatsword damage and damage from one use of lay on hands. This weapon special ability can only be used once per round, and only works with magical abilities of the same type as the weapon (melee or ranged).
Emphasis mine.
This is still a cool build, I'll definitely have some fun with it.
If your a grenadier you also get the int damage from applying ht splash weapon (granted it only applies to the main target I think)
additonally you could make it more focused with admixture extract (grants double INT)
then I suppose if you wanted to you could do kirin strike.
Atm my build
Focused
conductive bomb
kirin strike
all for x4int (the swift cost kinda sucks but in the small group it matters less for me)
You could infact if one had tons of gold
get crossbow mastery, it says allows free actoin reload for all crossbow
get a launching cross bow
so the bolt turns into a splash weapon with +int.
conductive bomb +int (or 2xINT with extract)
focused shot INT
then if grenadier, the splash substance INT (though idk how this would work with the shot being another vial. I dn't think it makes a diff)
then if you had it kirin strike
Thats the hardest hitting "one shot per round" I could come up with. Either with a dex boost from muta, or an int boost.
but thats like... 7xint? atm at lv 12 my int is +8 so..54? if you roll well on damage might break 100.
again I honestly have no clue if that's a lot of static or not. I just had my first sessin with my crossbow guy (might pick up launcher later on.. it would make agood first strike perhaps)
One issue I'm forseeing with this character is that the bomb's aoe isn't cutting it without fast bombs. I thought i'd manage but I am getting an incling that without fast bombs or some of the cloud based discoveries my aoe abilities are lacking a bit.. even if I have 26bombs. (though I dont have grenadier archetype, or i'd probably use a bow. which would free feats up)
I don't know how to do it quite yet.. but I was thinking about looking into the mechanics of sniping and putting distance on the crossbow too.
With improved crit, some luck you might cause some serious issues with someone and duck away out of their visual range..
Note. on the extract that gives you INT+2 instead of splash area. It says it doesn't work with discoveries that modify the bomb. So you could have that spell on you, and if you wanted to switch to doing AOE switch damage type (i got force because.. force is good and fun extra effect)
Explosive missle was mentioned earlier. It's nifty for sure, and with a conductive weapon yo ucan spend 3 bombs to have 2 go off (technically with that extract that gives you 4xint.. and you can apply the launcher and the grenadier abilty and kirin strike I guess). I picked up focus so I have more lasting power.
but explosive missle +the other stuff = one very mean boom
There's an alchemist hybridization funnel that lets you combine mundane alchemical liquids. So alc fire and acid. Then you can apply it to your weapon ala grenedier for another d6 or so.
The other alchemists guide has the skinny on some other very useful items that let you combine extracts too. He made a great guide.
I made a goblin alchemist with Explosive Missile and a +1 distance heavy crossbow. The advantage of the Exploding Missile discover is that you get to load the weapon as a part of a standard action, meaning you don't need to invest feats into your crossbow any more than you would with other ranged feats. (Read: Rapid Reload.)
With Explosive Missile, Immolation Bombs, a Distance weapon, and targeted bomb admixture, you'd be doing 1d10/1d8 + 1d6 + INTx2 on the first shot, then, 1d6+Int over the consecutive rounds while being 240 feet away in the first range increment. You can shoot them a few more times while they're still trying to get to you.
Granted, this doesn't have that much of an effect in close quarters and I have since rebuilt the goblin (as the party doesn't need more ranged capability.) I just liked it because it allowed me to use a crossbow more efficiently than most at minimum cost of feats.
Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Using the language of Explosive Missile to load a heavy crossbow without rapid reload still seems like too much of an exploit to me, which is why I went out of my way to get a repeating crossbow. Still, RAW, it is legal. Also, if you ever do get to fight at those extreme ranges, combine Dimensional Locking on your crossbow with a alchemical weapon - hybridized acid flask/tanglefoot bag (it's goo!) - and those baddies will NEVER reach you.
Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Zwordsman wrote:
Note. on the extract that gives you INT+2 instead of splash area. It says it doesn't work with discoveries that modify the bomb. So you could have that spell on you, and if you wanted to switch to doing AOE switch damage type (i got force because.. force is good and fun extra effect)
I've seen that interpretation before and, to be honest, I've never been clear the intentions, since it's worded strangely. The text says "...you make a significant change to your magical reserve that modifies the nature of all bombs you create and throw during this extract's duration. This effect on your magical reserve has no effect on any discoveries that you use to modify your bombs."
...So it's talking about your magical reserve. Does (A) 'no effect' on discoveries mean 'no interaction' (read: discoveries are unaffected)? Or does (B) it mean that if you use a discovery to modify a bomb, your magical reserve reverts for an action? Aside from the single mention under the Bomb class feature, the Admixture texts are the only place you will find this kind of language about magical reserves. Using the latter interpretation, you can only use Admixtures with unmodified fire bombs, whereas the former interpretation seems to be saying that, "yeah, you can give up AoE for more primary damage, even with a Frost Bomb."
How would the Caging Bomb Admixture interact with the (B) interpretation? Caging Bomb Admixture states "If the alchemist throws another bomb during the duration of caging bomb admixture, any other cage created by the earlier admixture ends, and a new one is created." It means that you are still fine to toss out bombs as long as those bombs are modified with discoveries. Which is fine, really, but the Admixture language is so imprecise that...well, suffice it that I've always been irked a little over that.
Necroposting: you can't add int to damage more than once because FAQs
http://paizo.com/paizo/faq/v5748nruor1fm#v5748eaic9sgk
yeah this was prior to that.
with it you lose about half the bonuses
You don't get the conductive's bomb.
You get normal bomb's +int
and focused shot's +int stacks with that due to different wordings. One is your modifier and one is equal to your modifier.
You won't get grenadier's skill's alchemical item bonus either as throw anything as the same wordin of adding to it.
SO yup that faq gutted the static damage but eh still not horrible idea.
I'm confused. I understand that the crossbow may have some kind of mechanical advantage, but couldn't you use an alchemist to make a Green Arrow/Hawkeye type?
You know exploding arrows, fog arrows, boxing glove arrows...
It would work with a crossbow, but the theme I'm after is the bow.
Is there something stopping you from using all these tricks with a regular bow?
Zwordsman wrote: You get normal bomb's +int
and focused shot's +int stacks with that due to different wordings. One is your modifier and one is equal to your modifier.
Modifier and "equal to modifier" are the same thing.
You might be able to convince a GM to let 2x Int work due to a Conductive bomb being a rider whose damage is calculated separately, but your logic doesn't work.
FAQ
No. An ability bonus, such as "Strength bonus", is considered to be the same source for the purpose of bonuses from the same source not stacking. However, you can still add, for instance “a deflection bonus equal to your Charisma modifier” and your Charisma modifier. For this purpose, however, the paladin's untyped "bonus equal to her Charisma bonus (if any) on all saving throws" from divine grace is considered to be the same as "Charisma bonus (if any)", and the same would be true for any other untyped "bonus equal to her [ability score] bonus" constructions.
Am I reading this wrong?
Does it not speciifcaly lists the ability to still stack "equal to your modifier" and "use charisma modifier" Except in cases where it it says "if any" as thats the same as "equal to"
It sounded like it was basically written to say "add Stat" is one and anything similiar to "add equal to, if any, etc" was all another category and that was the only ones allowed.
I would assume specifically for stuff like this as often specific class abilities usually say add equal to and most feat like stuff says add stat directly.
Thats a bummer if its' basically "no matter what only add a stat equivilant of any kind once"
then again i guess i've never played pfs and all my gms seemingly dislike most FAQs anyway
Also yeah you can make it better with a bow. This whole thing was a specific idea set for a spsecific character and story.
it works tons better with just a bow.
The reason that those two stack is because they are differently typed bonuses, this is true. But you're focusing on the wrong part: in “a deflection bonus equal to your Charisma modifier”, what matters is the word "Deflection", which changes the bonus type so it stacks.
If, say, Focused Shot granted a circumstance bonus to damage equal to your Int modifier, it would stack. But untyped bonuses from the same source don't stack.
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