As an optional, opt-in, addition to the game, chances are there won't be much. Even optimistically, it's not going to do nearly as well as an Ultimate [X] or a Advanced [Y] Guide. Unfortunate, as I like the idea, but just from a sales standpoint, you're looking at an add-on to an optional supplement. Meaning you've got a percentage of people who didn't buy the original Mythic Adventures book, for whatever reason, be it money or simply not liking the concept, and there will be a percentage of people who will not purchase the additional material, for the same reasons, to the point where it's not financially feasible.
Personally, I think it would be nice if future books included mythic content, but it would likely be in an appendix or small section to it's own, since they likely couldn't afford to have it function as a large segment of the book.
Whilst I really don't want Paizo to go down the path of producing rule books that don't have any in game support (a major disincentive to buying 3e Wizard's books), I can understand how it would be difficult to do so with mythic content. Doesn't it have to be all or nothing? You can't really just drop a mythic NPC into an instalment of an AP or module, as you could with a character option that people might not be so keen on. Either it's a mythic adventure, or it isn't. That's how I read it, although I'll put my hands up right now and say I don't have the mythic rules - I fully intend to get them, but at this stage my group can barely cope with the core rules and don't need additional complexity dropped on them.
Have the powers that be made any comment yet on whether mythic will see further support, or will it be left to 3PPs?
Personally, I would hope that Mythic gets more first party support, as it opens up some interesting powers and ideas. Plus, it allows for greater powers for PCs without bringing in some of the high level stuff the forums say is too broken.
Whilst I really don't want Paizo to go down the path of producing rule books that don't have any in game support (a major disincentive to buying 3e Wizard's books), I can understand how it would be difficult to do so with mythic content. Doesn't it have to be all or nothing? You can't really just drop a mythic NPC into an instalment of an AP or module, as you could with a character option that people might not be so keen on. Either it's a mythic adventure, or it isn't. That's how I read it, although I'll put my hands up right now and say I don't have the mythic rules - I fully intend to get them, but at this stage my group can barely cope with the core rules and don't need additional complexity dropped on them.
Have the powers that be made any comment yet on whether mythic will see further support, or will it be left to 3PPs?
It's more all or nothing than for example, including a Magus or other none CRB class in an AP, since the DM will need the Mythic rules book to even run that character, but I don't think it's all or nothing entirely. At least, no more so than adding an archetype for a Witch or a new Mystery for Oracles. It'll be material that a proportion of the player base doesn't have, but never the less, they do publish material for it. However, that being said, I'm not anticipating a ton of page-space dedicated to mythic, since a) where other material, such as APG classes and the like are Opt-out by groups, Mythic is Opt-in, meaning the material can only be used if the DM decides the game is mythic, whereas an APG archetype can be used unless the DM disallows non-core (or a subset thereof) material. Also, b) the percentage of the player base which has the Mythic Adventures book is smaller than other books. You're probably not going to pick up the book, unless you either are going to play in a mythic game, or you have the spare money to plop down on a source book. Especially for a lot of people for whom Pathfinder is only one of several games their group plays, you're going to see a subset of players who won't buy the book, because their group won't play mythic games.
While I certainly want to see more mythic stuff, the pragmatist in me is saying it's not likely they'll do a lot more with it. I foresee them publishing some mythic feats in the Advanced Class Guide (and future books) to match the new feats they publish in that book, and maybe a little more, like some path abilities to suit their hybrid classes, but that's as far as I'll go. I'm not sure even that much, but I think it'll be a while before we see any sizable amount of new first party support for Mythic.
And just a side note you can drop mythic monsters and NPCs on your non Mythic players all you want and it creates some great combats
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I think you can still support mythic without necessarily publishing whole new player companions covering that material.
New mythic powers and feats/spells would be pretty easy to put into relevant player companions without too much issue. And it's pretty easy to include mythic monsters in bestiaries, which I hope they continue to do.
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While we may or may not do more mythic content specifically for players... we WILL be using Mythic Adventures now and then for other books as it's appropriate for the story or product. Bestiary 4's inclusion of mythic monsters is a great example.
I think you can still support mythic without necessarily publishing whole new player companions covering that material.
New mythic powers and feats/spells would be pretty easy to put into relevant player companions without too much issue. And it's pretty easy to include mythic monsters in bestiaries, which I hope they continue to do.
Please, James, we would love a few more feats, spells, and powers to play with as players.
You've got the mechanics to add the mythic template to any monster you want. So every monster that Paizo publishes past, present, and future, can be a mythic monster.I think you can still support mythic without necessarily publishing whole new player companions covering that material.
New mythic powers and feats/spells would be pretty easy to put into relevant player companions without too much issue. And it's pretty easy to include mythic monsters in bestiaries, which I hope they continue to do.
Yes but it would be nice to get new monsters, such as Bestiary 4's Drakaina and such.
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Whilst I really don't want Paizo to go down the path of producing rule books that don't have any in game support (a major disincentive to buying 3e Wizard's books), I can understand how it would be difficult to do so with mythic content. Doesn't it have to be all or nothing? You can't really just drop a mythic NPC into an instalment of an AP or module, as you could with a character option that people might not be so keen on. Either it's a mythic adventure, or it isn't. That's how I read it, although I'll put my hands up right now and say I don't have the mythic rules - I fully intend to get them, but at this stage my group can barely cope with the core rules and don't need additional complexity dropped on them.
Have the powers that be made any comment yet on whether mythic will see further support, or will it be left to 3PPs?
They've already published sub-systems that have seen no support.
They've already published sub-systems that have seen no support.Whilst I really don't want Paizo to go down the path of producing rule books that don't have any in game support (a major disincentive to buying 3e Wizard's books), I can understand how it would be difficult to do so with mythic content. Doesn't it have to be all or nothing? You can't really just drop a mythic NPC into an instalment of an AP or module, as you could with a character option that people might not be so keen on. Either it's a mythic adventure, or it isn't. That's how I read it, although I'll put my hands up right now and say I don't have the mythic rules - I fully intend to get them, but at this stage my group can barely cope with the core rules and don't need additional complexity dropped on them.
Have the powers that be made any comment yet on whether mythic will see further support, or will it be left to 3PPs?
I'm interested in what you're referring to with this; not that I specifically disagree, as I can point to some things that have seen little support, like Teamwork feats, but I'm interested in what you had in mind.
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I'm interested in what you're referring to with this; not that I specifically disagree, as I can point to some things that have seen little support, like Teamwork feats, but I'm interested in what you had in mind.They've already published sub-systems that have seen no support.Whilst I really don't want Paizo to go down the path of producing rule books that don't have any in game support (a major disincentive to buying 3e Wizard's books), I can understand how it would be difficult to do so with mythic content. Doesn't it have to be all or nothing? You can't really just drop a mythic NPC into an instalment of an AP or module, as you could with a character option that people might not be so keen on. Either it's a mythic adventure, or it isn't. That's how I read it, although I'll put my hands up right now and say I don't have the mythic rules - I fully intend to get them, but at this stage my group can barely cope with the core rules and don't need additional complexity dropped on them.
Have the powers that be made any comment yet on whether mythic will see further support, or will it be left to 3PPs?
Perhaps Words of Power? This is a system I would love to see a bit more support for, either from Paizo or 3pps.
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Perhaps Words of Power? This is a system I would love to see a bit more support for, either from Paizo or 3pps.I'm interested in what you're referring to with this; not that I specifically disagree, as I can point to some things that have seen little support, like Teamwork feats, but I'm interested in what you had in mind.They've already published sub-systems that have seen no support.Whilst I really don't want Paizo to go down the path of producing rule books that don't have any in game support (a major disincentive to buying 3e Wizard's books), I can understand how it would be difficult to do so with mythic content. Doesn't it have to be all or nothing? You can't really just drop a mythic NPC into an instalment of an AP or module, as you could with a character option that people might not be so keen on. Either it's a mythic adventure, or it isn't. That's how I read it, although I'll put my hands up right now and say I don't have the mythic rules - I fully intend to get them, but at this stage my group can barely cope with the core rules and don't need additional complexity dropped on them.
Have the powers that be made any comment yet on whether mythic will see further support, or will it be left to 3PPs?
Ding ding!
Hell, it's not only not seen any support, it didn't really feel like it was finished.
Perhaps Words of Power? This is a system I would love to see a bit more support for, either from Paizo or 3pps.I'm interested in what you're referring to with this; not that I specifically disagree, as I can point to some things that have seen little support, like Teamwork feats, but I'm interested in what you had in mind.They've already published sub-systems that have seen no support.Whilst I really don't want Paizo to go down the path of producing rule books that don't have any in game support (a major disincentive to buying 3e Wizard's books), I can understand how it would be difficult to do so with mythic content. Doesn't it have to be all or nothing? You can't really just drop a mythic NPC into an instalment of an AP or module, as you could with a character option that people might not be so keen on. Either it's a mythic adventure, or it isn't. That's how I read it, although I'll put my hands up right now and say I don't have the mythic rules - I fully intend to get them, but at this stage my group can barely cope with the core rules and don't need additional complexity dropped on them.
Have the powers that be made any comment yet on whether mythic will see further support, or will it be left to 3PPs?
Ding ding!
Hell, it's not only not seen any support, it didn't really feel like it was finished.
Yes, I guess Words of Power is what is being referred to? But to clarify, I see that more as an optional system within a larger rulebook - same with Hero Points for instance. What I really meant was I object to entire rulebooks being published that subsequently have no in game support, such as Magic of Incarnum or Weapons of Legacy.
And if I can direct a question to James with regard to his post, would you consider it possible for a mythic character or monster to appear in a module / adventure without that adventure itself being labelled mythic, or otherwise having mythic content? As I said, I'm afraid I'm ignorant of the rules at the moment, but could 'ordinary' characters face off against mythic adversaries without being instantly squished?
yeah Words of Power was one section of one book. Mythic is in contrast pretty much the whole book. I am not sure there has been any hardcover book that has been completely ignored.
Ordinary characters can defeat mythic opponents, mythic gives new "unique" options, but many creatures already have unique options, so mythic doesn't in itself put a monster/npc outside the CR system.
I agree, that more support would be nice. A few options in some of the regional or thematic soft cover (campaign setting/player companion) lines would be awesome.
I would also like more for words of power, which I've come to like quite a bit.
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Frankly I'd like to see one of the modules each year be mythic.
While i certainly would like to see more mythic material what i definetely want to see are mythic APs and/or modules.
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First off... Mythic Adventures is an entire book. Words of power is a single optional experimental chapter in a book. There's a big difference there.
Also... OUR interest in the rules plays a role, as does the interest of our customers. Personally, I'm not a big fan of Words of Power, and they're really complex and awkward to enumerate and stat up in a stat block as well, making a words of power character difficult and complicated to put in an adventure. On top of that, we don't really have an in-Golarion establishment for words of power users, so in that regard they're a little like summoners—they're hard to fit into Golarion. Our rules hardcovers are world neutral, but the parts of those books that don't fit super well into Golarion DO tend to get ignored or forgotten by the rest of what we publish. Which is why we've increasingly tried to make sure that what we do put in rulebooks, while remaining world-neutral, also remains Golarion-friendly.
We will continue to now and then put Mythic content in our books. We may some day do an entire book or product dedicated to Mythic content... none are currently on the schedule, though. But seeing a few new path abilities show up in a Player Companion, or a new mythic spell or feat show up in a Campaign Setting book, or a mythic monster show up in an adventure? All of those are entirely possible... especially when it makes sense for the story.
First off... Mythic Adventures is an entire book. Words of power is a single optional experimental chapter in a book. There's a big difference there.
Also... OUR interest in the rules plays a role, as does the interest of our customers. Personally, I'm not a big fan of Words of Power, and they're really complex and awkward to enumerate and stat up in a stat block as well, making a words of power character difficult and complicated to put in an adventure. On top of that, we don't really have an in-Golarion establishment for words of power users, so in that regard they're a little like summoners—they're hard to fit into Golarion. Our rules hardcovers are world neutral, but the parts of those books that don't fit super well into Golarion DO tend to get ignored or forgotten by the rest of what we publish. Which is why we've increasingly tried to make sure that what we do put in rulebooks, while remaining world-neutral, also remains Golarion-friendly.
We will continue to now and then put Mythic content in our books. We may some day do an entire book or product dedicated to Mythic content... none are currently on the schedule, though. But seeing a few new path abilities show up in a Player Companion, or a new mythic spell or feat show up in a Campaign Setting book, or a mythic monster show up in an adventure? All of those are entirely possible... especially when it makes sense for the story.
That is good to hear. I haven't played with mithic rules yet, but I have read through them on PRD and am looking forward to useing them. Further support, even if it's one thing at a time here and there, would be a welcome addition to an already exciting rule set.
Also... OUR interest in the rules plays a role, as does the interest of our customers.
Wait wait wait up a second. Since when did the developers get to choose about the nature of what gets published? Something seems odd here...
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Creative Director
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Also... OUR interest in the rules plays a role, as does the interest of our customers.Wait wait wait up a second. Since when did the developers get to choose about the nature of what gets published? Something seems odd here...
That's been the case of things since the start. Developers have ALWAYS had a say in the nature of what gets published, and in fact, one of a developer's job duties is to come up with ideas for books.
That's been the case of things since the start. Developers have ALWAYS had a say in the nature of what gets published, and in fact, one of a developer's job duties is to come up with ideas for books.Also... OUR interest in the rules plays a role, as does the interest of our customers.Wait wait wait up a second. Since when did the developers get to choose about the nature of what gets published? Something seems odd here...
Woosh?
Myself I would be more than happy to see others mythic adventure path once in a while.
Maybe 1 every two years or so?
Myself I would be more than happy to see others mythic adventure path once in a while.
Maybe 1 every two years or so?
By one every two years you mean 1 mythic AP out of 4 APs or 1 mythic AP for every 4 APs?
Woosh?That's been the case of things since the start. Developers have ALWAYS had a say in the nature of what gets published, and in fact, one of a developer's job duties is to come up with ideas for books.Also... OUR interest in the rules plays a role, as does the interest of our customers.Wait wait wait up a second. Since when did the developers get to choose about the nature of what gets published? Something seems odd here...
No. Neow!