It's not cheating, but it isn't really in the spirit of the game to farm for boons.
Also, note that you cannot quit in the middle of an encounter. If you flip over a card you have to finish dealing with that card.
The 'quit' mechanism means you basically just do nothing on the rest of your turns.
Note that if you encountered something like 'Quicksand: Barrier. Attach this card to your character. At the start of each of your turns succeed in a CON/FORT 12 check or bury the top card of your deck. At the end of the scenario banish this card.' then you would still need to do this check every turn until the blessings deck runs out, even though you had stopped exploring and were trying to run the time down.
The only time I've quit (as in turned over the blessing deck with out exploring) is to prevent character death. I had maybe 2 turns left, and knew the Villain was the next card in the location. But Sajan had no cards left in his deck and few blessings in his hand. If he lost, he was dead. I decided I loved Sajan more than winning and took the loss. But in the spirit of the game I did hang my head in shame for a good 2 hours.
Don't feel bad.. right now it might feel strange but I guarantee once we get farther in the adventure path there will be a lot more of this happening versus having either to "house rule" new character creation to be better than the rules allow or actually starting over that far into the game - especially because I'm pretty sure things are going to get even harder.
I'm in the exact same situation. My 5 year old got creamed by the Exploding Runes AND a shitty role against a Skinsaw Cultists. We chased off Black Fang at our first encounter but he only has 3 cards left in his draw pile. I want to walk away from the scenario but it feels like there is no penalty for that.
How would you ever die if you could just choose to stop playing at any point? Is it because you have to draw to finish your turn so you could get surprised by something wiping your hand?
I feel like there should be some penalty for "running away", like 'banish a random item from your deck' (i.e. it was dropped while fleeing). (ooh, ya, I kinda like that)
I don't think you are "supposed" to die. But if there wasn't a serious enough penalty for dying (i.e. if it was the same as loosing a scenario), then you'd keep playing with no cards left in your deck. And that would objectively make the game easier. The penalty for death has to be serious enough that you don't want it to happen so that you are limited in how risky you can play.
On a side note, I think you may have mixed your cards too soon. You shouldn't be encountering Skinsaw Cultists during Perils of the Lost Cost, where Black Fang's Dungeon appears.
You only add cards from the numbered decks once you start that adventure. So you shouldn't see Skinsaw Cultists until after you've started The Skinsaw Murders. That may have contributed to your child's near demise.
AHA!! That was never clear. Thanks ;)
My Friend and I pored over the rule book and did (a little) online research to try to figure out if we could add everything at the beginning, or if it was supposed to be "time released". We figured that there were cards that mentioned "the power of this card equals the number of the adventure blah blah" and so on, it meant that they were OK to have in the deck from the beginning.
So is if I am going to have one play-through with my son going at the same time as another play-through with my friends, is there an easy way to keep from constantly mixing and separating this expansion from that one?
I have 3 different "parties" going from my box. One just me, one with my wife and one with friends. I do my best to keep them all at the same adventure because its annoying. I usually just end up searching through and removing things, but there are 2 strategies I can think of trying:
1. If you encounter something from an adventure path that is higher than where you are, set it aside and draw a random card of that type from the box until you have the right "level". But that kind of ruins the anticipation of the encounter.
2. When building locations, after shuffling, hold the cards in your hand with the face side facing you. For each type draw out all the cards you'll need for all the location. As you draw, draw from the "back of the deck" and lift each card up just enough so you can see the deck number. If it is too high, pull it out. If it isn't too high, look away and place it face down on the table. After you have enough of that type, reshuffle to help limit your knowledge of which location will have which level cards, then build your locations.
But to be honest, both of those will be problematic later on. When you start Hook Mountain Massacre (deck 3) you have to follow the instructions on the Adventure Path card to start removing cards with the basic trait from the game. That will mean you'll need to keep track of each of your different groups removed cards and rebuild the available card pools when you switch groups. So you are probably better off just taking the time to sort them.
You also should technically be deconstructing your character decks from one group, putting them back in the pool and reconstructing the characters from the other group each time you switch. Otherwise one of your groups might end up with a key card a character in your other group wants. Some cards only have 1 or 2 copies in the game.
To help with the character part, there are downloadable character sheets here.
I've got some layout guides and worksheets that can help you organize the game. You can get them here. There is a sheet in there to track the removed cards. But don't worry about that too much until you get to Hook Mountain Massacre.
Also, if you check out the FAQ you'll see there have been a few errata for some of the cards. Most are more clarification than game changers. If you sleeve your cards, I also made this to put in the sleeves that will correct them.
It sounds like you've just started on your adventure. Welcome to the game.
Back to the original question? Our group did this several times to avoid character death - choosing not to explore & burning thru the blessings deck. In essence, conceding, but technically following the rules. In 0-6F there is not blessings deck - so this is not an option? It's succeed or die?
I think the only scenario I've seen that you can't 'quit' from is the last scenario of runelords. That one is a do or die scenario. No blessings deck, only one location that keeps burying a card each turn.
Sorry - not read all the excellent detailed replies here but my understanding of 'quitting' a scenario is effectively passing until the timer runs out.
Which in wrath gave rise to a naughty trick involving laboratory and the tomes of mental/might.
Zenarius, 0-6F has pretty much the same mechanism as the last scenario of RotR, so you can't abort that one either.
OP: In my solo-Ezren run, I completed AD2 and I still have a single 2d6 combat spell upgrade. Unfortunatelly, it seems the monsters and villains didn't get the memo, and their checks keep rising. So while 'grinding' may not seem 'in the spirit of the game' for some, it's better that you grind for loot when it will be fun for you, instead of lucking your way into higher adventures and then having to grind just so you can have a decent chance at beating them.
On dying, while I agree there must be some penalty for dying, I believe this is where the rules have enormous disconnect with most people's gaming habits. Let's say my party got to the last adventure of RotR and then get killed by the final villain. Are we really supposed to go all the way back to scenario 0-1 an start from scratch (this more than a 100 hours of game time, mind you!); or do we replay the final scenario that wiped our veterans with new character without a single feat and only boons from AD4 or lower? Both options seem equally absurd to me.
I can usually play 2 scenarios per week, on average, and I know a lot people can gather their party even less often. To suffer such a major setback, measured in real hours of your life, due to something as arbitrary as a bad dice roll is out of the question.
What my party does is, if character dies - we lose the scenario, even if the rest of the party manages to corner and beat the villain. Think of it as "while our party was resurrecting their dead mate, the Villain's henchmen did the same for him" if you will :)
Rules as written, in computer game terms, PACG is the obnoxious game that insists only giving you a checkpoint every half an hour, instead of 'save anywhere' feature. If you have anything better to do with your life than to repeat a challenge you've already proven you can beat, just for the sake of "rules" - house-rule away and never look back.
Thanks zeroth. I've only played runelords & wrath.
Longshot - no best answer for that one buddy. Whatever floats your team's boat & is best given playtime etc. works. (My game group actually has 8 players with very different playtime schedules due to work /family/ etc.. so we had to make some modified houserules to accomodate everyone while preserving the fun/challenge.)
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My group handles this based on the mechanic. Most scenarios have a finite blessings timer. As far as we understood, closed locations are not prohibited from moving to. The first, free exploration is also optional. I don't feel exercising discretion as the better part of valor is against the spirit of the game nor shameful. Instead, it is recognition for your situation and being willing to concede your progress that may have taken a few hours to arrive at.
However, as an example, Khorramzadeh's scenario creates the mechanic that he will always be in the blessings deck, so the blessings deck can't run out. Thematically, the demonic invasion was not foreseen, and he's the rampaging alpha monster that you really didn't want to see. You can't "win" the scenario under the standard method. As the adventurers, all you wanted to do was run.
This was a really well created scenario, that established the tone of WOTR clearly early on. The mechanic is innovative and makes the scenario standout and memorable as the adventurers could have been trampled out under the chaotic, tidal force of a *50 then 50* behemoth. Following this with a scenario that requires you to bury an unknown, dice-based qty of cards creates an aftermath sensation that the obvious danger may have been dodged, but in your pressed escape, you may have left behind some prized possessions.
Without this kind of mechanic, the game would be very incomplete - not quite tantamount to lloosing a number and rolling die to see where the sum falls but approaching that realm. For my group, all of the aforementioned allows us to deeply appreciate the universe Mike, Vic, and the rest of the team crafted. Ultimately, we've only walked from a couple scenarios.
Find what works for you where there's no clear demarcation. Ask the squishy members to seek help or lower aggression at the 50-75% HP range depending on deck and hand size or help them do it. Talk and determine ahead of time what plausible outcomes you all can live with.
Have fun and good luck!
Hi everyone, not sure if this question has been asked before,
if you're exploring a location from an adventure or scenario, let say you've leveled up or acquired a couple of new items/weapons/armors/ally, before you finished exploring that location or defeat the henchman/Villain of that location, and something comes up, and you are forced to quit, or you 've encountered something whether it be a monster or barrier, and you don't feel like fighting it, just wanted to bag your treasures and EXP, and quit in the middle of the session. Can you walk away with all the experience points and treasures you've acquired, and come back later with those advantages? Does it count as cheating?
for example: say I am playing Black Fang's Scenario with a new character, and I know there are no monsters in the temple location, so I went in, and acquired an elite weapon/armor/item/ally after the first one or two turn, and I decided that good enough for me, now I wanted to restart the scenario and go to the temple AGAIN and see if I can get even more goods, and I keep repeating the same process, until I feel that my character is ready to face barriers, monsters, henchman/villain.
Looking forward to hear from you.
Longshot - no best answer for that one buddy. Whatever floats your team's boat & is best given playtime etc. works. (My game group actually has 8 players with very different playtime schedules due to work /family/ etc.. so we had to make some modified houserules to accomodate everyone while preserving the fun/challenge.)
Your post made me look at the Homebrew thread, and there're a few really interesting suggestion there to deal with character's death, so I'd point the OP to those threads.
When talking about death, many people talk about what its 'cost' should be, measured in feats, cards, ongoing penalties etc.. However, the cost you as a player pay ultimately comes in only two currencies: fun and time.
The cost of fun lost per RAW is simply unacceptable for my group, and the cost in time is just arbitrary (you could, in theory, play any number of games with your 'new' hero until you bring him to the same exact specs as your 'dead' hero).
Many people say that they play their new character solo through the campaign, to bring him up to speed with the rest of the group, and I can definitely see how this can be fun. Given the above-mentioned possibility to just play replay scenarios indefinitely, however, why some people thing they HAVE to do that is beyond me.
Finally, I buy the PACG so I can *play* and have fun. That some people think it's OK to rather *not* play (i.e. "wait out" the blessings deck) rather then try to push on to victory with every ounce of strength and every card left (i.e. what a "real" hero would do), and even more the fact that RAW seems to encourage this behavior simply boggles my mind. Different strokes and all that, I guess.
PS: Yes, we would bench a character down to his last cards in a closed, location, as in our group character death loses the scenario. However, if a wild Arboreal Blight comes out of nowhere and kills them - good luck trying to convince the player that he has to roll a new character through no fault of his (suggesting otherwise would mean every character has to retire with at least 2 cards still in their deck and/or protection cards in hand, just to be 'safe').
Finally, I buy the PACG so I can *play* and have fun. That some people think it's OK to rather *not* play (i.e. "wait out" the blessings deck) rather then try to push on to victory with every ounce of strength and every card left (i.e. what a "real" hero would do), and even more the fact that RAW seems to encourage this behavior simply boggles my mind. Different strokes and all that, I guess.
This seems like a matter of perspective. If you adopt your character as yourself in the environment of the game, vulnerability and cognizance of the vulnerability shouldn't be equivalent to no fun unless context is ignored and the initial premise of immersion just isn't for you, which is fine.
Tempo-change is a part of problem solving and adaptation. I fail to see why exiting a hypothetical dungeon, cavern, or tomb makes one a lesser hero. However, Longshot, your perspective is certainly consistent with your MO in the Alain thread (the venting post). Riding around ad infinitum is appealing to you. I like more subtle complexity than that.
As you say, different strokes and all that, I guess.
This seems like a matter of perspective.
Agreed.
I fail to see why exiting a hypothetical dungeon, cavern, or tomb makes one a lesser hero.
I was actually referring to the fact that in most RPG campaigns (in my experience), if a member of the party is downed, the Villain won't just sit on his thumbs and wait for the heroes to trudge back to the local temple, revive their fallen, and then get back to business. Therefore, they're pressed to push on, at a disadvantage (being one person short / having to guard their remains) and so they have to actually overcome even more difficult tactical challenges (and, on the IRL side of things, this actually keeps the people that you've gathered on gaming night engaged with the interesting side of things)
Your perspective is certainly consistent with your MO in the Alain thread (the venting post). Riding around ad infinitum is appealing to you. I like more subtle complexity than that.
This seems a little more personal than perhaps called for, but then again I'm sometimes a poor judge of how my post come out for other people. At any rate, those are two completely separate issues to me and if disagreeing with my stance on both makes you see them as a common 'issue' in my perspective, there's no point in convincing you otherwise. Suffice to say, I don't believe my games are lacking 'subtle complexity', but for me this term intersects with 'fun' at a completely different place that it does for you.
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This seems like a matter of perspective.Agreed.
I fail to see why exiting a hypothetical dungeon, cavern, or tomb makes one a lesser hero.I was actually referring to the fact that in most RPG campaigns (in my experience), if a member of the party is downed, the Villain won't just sit on his thumbs and wait for the heroes to trudge back to the local temple, revive their fallen, and then get back to business. Therefore, they're pressed to push on, at a disadvantage (being one person short / having to guard their remains) and so they have to actually overcome even more difficult tactical challenges (and, on the IRL side of things, this actually keeps the people that you've gathered on gaming night engaged with the interesting side of things
On the other side of the coin, this isn't an RPG and as such, shouldn't have to follow the same path (of play) as an RPG. In an RPG scenario, you have acces to all the resources your party is carrying (usually). In PACG, you're limited to your hand. You're limited by the rules of a turn. An RPG session is a much different animal. So retreating when you need to then retrying is acceptable.
This seems a little more personal than perhaps called for, but then again I'm sometimes a poor judge of how my post come out for other people. At any rate, those are two completely separate issues to me and if disagreeing with my stance on both makes you see them as a common 'issue' in my perspective, there's no point in convincing you otherwise. Suffice to say, I don't believe my games are lacking 'subtle complexity', but for me this term intersects with 'fun' at a completely different place that it does for you.
Longshot, my apologies for coming across as being attacking. It was an observation, although sarcasm and text-only void of inflection and physical expression does make it hard for you to discern my intent.