Large creature wielding a medium reach weapon: which squares are threatened?


Rules Questions

Sovereign Court

Imagine your fighter was enlarged but then his favourite lucerne hammer got disarmed. He picks it back up, but it's shrunk down to medium size. What area does the fighter threaten with it now?


15'


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The same as if it was not shrunk down to medium size. The rules only account for the size of the creature to determine reach. There is no rule that states weapon size is relevant to reach.

If you take a Tiny 2handed weapon with the reach property and stick it in the hands of a medium character (counts as a light weapon) it would still have the reach property and still allow the medium character to threaten 10'.

Does this make "logical sense"? No, but this is the rules forum where rules do not have to make sense. :)

Sczarni

It's also why a small-sized PC with a small-sized reach weapon threatens the same radius as a medium-sized PC with a medium-sized reach weapon, even though the former is half the length of the latter.

And, if that medium-sized PC picked up the small-sized PC's reach weapon, not only would it still threaten the same area, but the medium-sized PC can wield it one-handed.

Liberty's Edge

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He does not threaten adjacent squares with a reach weapon. If he has armor spikes (being a fighter, he probably does), then he threatens adjacent squares.


The rules assume the weapon is appropriately sized so don't expect a GM to allow your medium sized creature with a diminutive reach weapon to actually gain 5 feet of reach.

If you are the GM then do what you think makes sense.


Theconiel wrote:
He does not threaten adjacent squares with a reach weapon. If he has armor spikes (being a fighter, he probably does), then he threatens adjacent squares.

Only if you have enough Metaphorical hands. Remember the designers decided their are unwritten hand rules.

Armor spikes require hands.

Sczarni

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Starbuck_II wrote:
Theconiel wrote:
He does not threaten adjacent squares with a reach weapon. If he has armor spikes, then he threatens adjacent squares.

Only if you have enough Metaphorical hands. Remember the designers decided their are unwritten hand rules.

Armor spikes require hands.

Different issue.

You can threaten at reach, and adjacent, while wielding a polearm and wearing Armor Spikes.

What you can't do is TWF with them.

It's a distinction many misunderstand.

Sczarni

Same thing goes for Boulder Helmets, Blade Boots and Unarmed Strikes.


A large-sized creature with a reach of 10 feet will typically double this with a reach weapon allowing them to attack out to 15 or 20 feet away, but not within 5 or 10 feet.

Ascalaphus wrote:
Imagine your fighter was enlarged but then his favourite lucerne hammer got disarmed. He picks it back up, but it's shrunk down to medium size. What area does the fighter threaten with it now?

In this case, your large-sized fighter would only threaten in his normal reach, within 5 or 10 feet. He would still be able to use its other traits; brace, +2 CMD to sunder medium and heavy armor, etc. This is covered in the rules for reach weapons. Wraithstrike mentioned it above but here's the PRD quote:

Reach Weapons wrote:
Glaives, guisarmes, lances, longspears, ranseurs, and whips are reach weapons. A reach weapon is a melee weapon that allows its wielder to strike at targets that aren't adjacent to him. Most reach weapons double the wielder's natural reach, meaning that a typical Small or Medium wielder of such a weapon can attack a creature 10 feet away, but not a creature in an adjacent square. A typical Large character wielding a reach weapon of the appropriate size can attack a creature 15 or 20 feet away, but not adjacent creatures or creatures up to 10 feet away.

Sorry, I have no underline format, so hopefully you saw the italicized 'of the appropriate size' in the bolded section. Since the reach weapon is not an appropriate size for the creature wielding it, it no longer grants the benefits. This may cause some players to cry foul, such asking why a large-sized longspear doesn't give them reach, the answer is probably that due to the size difference and weight balance issues, they can't hold it properly and use it as easily (like stairs made for giants and stairs made for halflings, they're both stairs, but tough to use for a human.) This also prevents a human from dual-wielding tiny longspears (for the reach) or something similarly awesome/weird.

Sovereign Court

Pizza Lord wrote:

A large-sized creature with a reach of 10 feet will typically double this with a reach weapon allowing them to attack out to 15 or 20 feet away, but not within 5 or 10 feet.

Ascalaphus wrote:
Imagine your fighter was enlarged but then his favourite lucerne hammer got disarmed. He picks it back up, but it's shrunk down to medium size. What area does the fighter threaten with it now?

In this case, your large-sized fighter would only threaten in his normal reach, within 5 or 10 feet. He would still be able to use its other traits; brace, +2 CMD to sunder medium and heavy armor, etc. This is covered in the rules for reach weapons. Wraithstrike mentioned it above but here's the PRD quote:

Reach Weapons wrote:
Glaives, guisarmes, lances, longspears, ranseurs, and whips are reach weapons. A reach weapon is a melee weapon that allows its wielder to strike at targets that aren't adjacent to him. Most reach weapons double the wielder's natural reach, meaning that a typical Small or Medium wielder of such a weapon can attack a creature 10 feet away, but not a creature in an adjacent square. A typical Large character wielding a reach weapon of the appropriate size can attack a creature 15 or 20 feet away, but not adjacent creatures or creatures up to 10 feet away.
Sorry, I have no underline format, so hopefully you saw the italicized 'of the appropriate size' in the bolded section. Since the reach weapon is not an appropriate size for the creature wielding it, it no longer grants the benefits. This may cause some players to cry foul, such asking why a large-sized longspear doesn't give them reach, the answer is probably that due to the size difference and weight balance issues, they can't hold it properly and use it as easily (like stairs made for giants and stairs made for halflings, they're both stairs, but tough to use for a human.) This also prevents a human from dual-wielding tiny longspears (for the reach) or something similarly awesome/weird.

That's an interesting detail. I guess that would mean that the reach of a creature using an inappropriately sized weapon is "undefined".


I'm pretty sure it isn't 'undefined'. It's just your normal reach in that case.

At the very best case, you might be able to say, "I guess that means that the reach of a creature other than large size using an inappropriately-sized [reach] weapon is 'undefined'." Since the actual example for reach weapons uses a Large creature specifically and the intent clearly isn't that the reach gets bigger than 15 or 20 feet with an inappropriate size weapon and there's no indication that the creature loses it own natural reach of 5 and 10 feet.

Imagine you had an ability that said 'when wielding an appropriately sized weapon, it deals damage as though one size larger.' Assuming you're medium, that doesn't suddenly mean that small or tiny or large weapons' damage is now 'undefined' it just means you would do normal damage when using them. It wouldn't undefine anything that already applies.

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