Making the Boss Monster Work -- a Template


Advice


This is something of a half-baked idea, but that's why I'm starting a thread on it.

You've probably read things like this advising GMs to NEVER use boss monster encounters because they do not "work" in PF. It's generally good advice, too -- it can be hard to create a lone boss encounter that isn't either a total pushover or a real TPK threat.

One of the big reasons for this is the action economy, and the fact that a lone boss will have a limited number of actions per round when compared to the typical party. For the boss to have "staying power" to last more than a couple of rounds (if that), it would have to be so over-CRed that it might crush a PC with a single attack. Wise GMs should instead set up climactic battles with a less powerful boss and his minions.

That's generally good advice by the numbers, but -- what if you WANT a lone boss encounter? They're a staple of video games and many other aspects of the fantasy genre. Does EVERY dragon have to have an entourage of lizardmen or ogres lounging around with them all of the time?

I propose the development of a template -- the "boss monster" template -- that could be added to a normal creature in order to make it serviceable as a lone boss monster.

From what I can see, such a template might need to do a few things:

* Increase the survivability or "lifepan" of the monster in a fight
* Even out the "action economy", one way or another
* Possibly lower damage potential in order to avoid high risk of TPK

That's all I can think of for now and the kids are screaming, so I'm going to go. Will be back to see what ideas people come up with.


Faster Than Most:this creature acts on its own initiative and has 3 itinerant attacks at initiative-2, intitiative -4, and initiative -6


I'm not sure why you think a boss shouldn't have some risk of a TPK. Making it challenging and making it impossible to cause a TPK are mutually exclusive goals.

That said: at lower levels, fast healing is extraordinary and has no means of suppression, other than death. Giving it fast healing equal to, say, a tenth of its hitpoints increases its lifespan pretty well unless you're already playing rocket tag.

DR/- is also nice, as are universal resistances/immunities. Immunity to mind-affecting effects or a high Will save and the ability to reroll saves is a must.

If you're playing rocket tag, your PCs are high-level enough that they've been adventuring a lot and the BBEG likely knows their tactics, and a single template probably won't work, as you'll need to tailor it to your party. If they like summoning or calling outsiders, give it a banishment aura with CL equal to the boss monster's hit dice and have it count as a hated item, increasing the DC by 4 and CL for purposes of penetrating spell resistance by 2.

If they like blasting, antimagic field with Aroden's Spellbane set to mage's disjunction, or a golem's immunity to magic with no exceptions or thematically appropriate exceptions.

If they have martials that like to bum-rush single enemies and do high damage, add natural flight on top of the above.


Yeah, the mythic initiative is great.

Giving a boss 2 spots in initiative is pretty nice if he is solo


My "boss" monsters when they exist have the following -
DR 1/- per opponent - so DR 4/- most the time but i include cohorts/acs/familiars/ect. This DR also gets applied to all damage he takes including spells
Max HP per HD
Spotaneous spellcasting for all bosses with casting classes: the boss just always has the right spell "prepared"
Free buff spells: any buff spells the boss needs will already be up at the start of combat off of "scrolls" so they don't come out of his combat resources
Bonus Feats: toughness, iron will, lightning reflexes, great fortitude. Casters always have access to empowered and quickened spells without needing the feats, melee characters always have weapon focus and weapon specialization as well.

Basically i try to make my bosses hard to kill but don't really add much combat power but just giving your big guy full caster support buffs without eating their action economy goes a really long way towards increasing their impact, more importantly in increases the value of dispels in the party's arsenal and any round you can tie down the parties casters stripping buffs is another round and spell slot they're not using to nova the "boss" all of these changes are pretty transparent to the party, i don't give them feedback on the DR so it just looks like it takes a lot of oomph to knock them down. I should note thus is only done with solo big bads, though i will prebuff smaller fights if the party out actions the boss. I'm also fond of haste + spring attack on bosses so I can keep the fight mobile which cuts down full attack spamming.


There's also the Eternal template.


I use the "spontaneous" spellcasting as well. I just make a list of spells that may be useful and cast from that list as if they were prepared.

I wonder if giving the boss monster extra attacks of opportunity may be something to consider. Perhaps give them Combat Patrol for free.


Mythic template seems a good start to me.
Some way to take a standard action as immediate once a round.


A crapton of hit points is one step. But neither that nor the mythic simple template helps saving throws, so many parties will still be able to overwhelm the boss with SoS/SoD effects (Slumber hex, anyone?). Even worse if the party can gang up and pin the poor schmuck.

Giving multiple initiatives to the boss is fine for some creatures, but if the opponent is an NPC then multiple initiatives might seem out of place unless the NPC has some source of mythic or other unusual power. After all, the PCs have no option to gain multiple initiative counts. But for some encounters, this can work fine.

The most important step is to make sure the boss knows that the PCs are coming. That way, it can prepare to its advantage. This can mean buffs and the like, but it can also mean setting traps, taking hostages, retrieving useful magic items from its stash, and so on. If the PCs manage to overcome the boss's ability to predict their arrival, well, good on them--they should be rewarded for that.

Me, I always leave at least three wrenches to throw in the works for a boss fight, but I also accept that sometimes the PCs will drop a boss in one round. It happens. Boss fights don't need to be fixed, really--the guide linked in the OP solves 90% of a boss encounter's problems, and the rest can be solved via the "fighting is not the real goal" principle. It's a boss fight. Take a little more care than simply dropping the BBEG in a room at the top of the stairs.

Oh, and forget the idea of evil monologuing. That never happens.


Okay, going further, like blahpers says (love the name btw), build them like you would an actual boss fight.

First off, make them immune to cheese like witch hex and pits, or at least resistant to (flight, too big for a pit, evasion, a Climb speed, an Elf, etc.) Also, like I said previously, give them some Mythic Initiative trick so they can take extra actions, but make it a limited resource or make them fatigued after using it or something. Give yourself tactical decisions to make.

Find ways to increase their HP, or effective HP, without increasing their hitting or killing power. Give them DR/Epic or DR/-, or Fast Healing, or some other irritating way to ignore damage--but not so much that melee becomes inconsequential.

Build in strengths and weaknesses. A high AC or other defense, but a penalty on saves vs. poison. Maybe they're terrified of fire, and if they take fire damage they're staggered for 1 round. That sort of thing. How about a thematic weakness, like Smaug's missing scale, and if a player takes a move action they attempt a Perception check vs his full AC and for the next round they can make attacks against his touch AC.

Design phases. Phase 1 he's very conservative and lets the players come to him, taking full defense or casting buff spells. Once he's taken damage he drinks a mutagen/flies into a rage and power attacks for full/novas with spells. At 25% he retreats or attempts to escape and the players have 1 round to take him out from range.

Give them a "last stand" ability, so they can attempt to take their slayer down with them.

These make the fight seem cinematic and, now that I'm thinking about it, most of it can be achieved through Mythic levels/templates.


Definitely needs the ability to act on multiple Initiative counts or take more than the normal allotment of actions in some way. Even without Mythic Initiative, the precedent is there in some monsters.

Rakshasa Maharajas can take an extra Standard per round on another Initiative count (potentially making them super dangerous in conjunction with Quicken Spell).

The end boss of Carrion Crown Book 2 has an extra Move action a round.

Things like that are simple, and significantly up the danger counter.

Of course, much like video games, this can be too much. Think of when you're playing, say, Final Fantasy X. It sucks ass when the boss attacks you, gets a second turn in a row, casts Haste, and then takes two more turns and wipes the floor with you.

No need to open up for similar shenanigans here.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

When it comes to action economy, there are ways to "cheat" the economy without resorting to making monsters act on multiple rounds. These are all passive abilities that are well within the rules.

Auras are a good idea. These act when the players get within range, thus acting outside of your turn with a detrimental effect to the players.

Defensive abilities that do more than stop your HP. A good example is having an ability that shoots acid blood whenever someone strikes you with a melee attack. Again, acting out of your turn without actually acting.

Immediate actions are also good, though less passive and more reactive. I once made a creature called a sin eater that would devour magic that was cast as an immediate action.

I had more ideas, but I can't recall them at the moment.


Wow, some nice ideas here. Funny someone mentioned Carrion Crown, I remember at least one boss fight in that adventure path where the monster was basically immune to everything for a round, and the immunities gradually wore off round by round after that. The upshot was that the party hit it with its best stuff in round 1, "realized" that it was immune, and then switched to less optimal attacks -- even though the boss wasn't really any more immune to the party's optimal attacks than it was to its secondary or tertiary ones. Seemed kind of cheeseball to me when I was playing (after the DM revealed what had been going on) but in a way it was kind of genius.


Mythic Initiative is a great way to somewhat offset the big bad's action economy.
Also, back when World of Warcraft released it's 3.5 version of their game they had a template for elite monsters.
I don't remember everything, but it was a +1 CR adjustment that gave +4 to a primary stat and constituion and gave them x4 hit points.

Might be a good idea to dig it up from the bowels of the Internet and see if it would suit your needs!


If I can throw a few suggestions in and there:
- Making the boss a standard mythical creature can work.
- In the Super Genius Guide to Simple Monster Templates, there's the Mighty Template that could work.
- Back in 3.5, in the World of Warcraft Campaign Setting Bestiary, there was the Elite Template.


You could always make the boss super strong, but give it a motivation other than TPK. Maybe it's not all bad and is just committed to the wrong side, and only needs to stop you, not gib you. Maybe it's really, really evil and would rather toy with you first. Compare to most Bond villains; you can have every advantage, but decide not to TPK for whatever ill-advised reason you want. As long as players have a chance against such a boss, give them enough opportunities and probability will kick in at some point.


One of the most simple things I do for "Boss fights" is to give them Hero Points.

D3+1 should be sufficient.

Very Respectfully,
--Bacon

Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder First Edition / Advice / Making the Boss Monster Work -- a Template All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.
Recent threads in Advice