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Remember that sometimes, PFS leadership doesnt allow items/goodies not because of their power level, but because they want to save it to provide as rewards in future chronicle sheets. It is possible you may see Mind Buttressing in the future, but as a reward instead of available for anyone.
On the power side, I do think it is a very powerful enchantment for the the cost (maybe not strictly underpriced per se, but MORE than worth its price).
a clear spindle ioun stone provides a similar effect, but not an equal effect. Mind Buttressing protects from ALL control, not just from evil sources.
Medium or heavy armor requirement is pretty moot, since a large percentage of people that will want this enchantment (people with low will saves) are already going to be in heavy/medium armor (fighters, barbarians, cavaliers, etc...)
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Here you go Jiggy:
Mind Buttressing
Price +2 bonus
Aura faint abjuration CL 12th Weight —
Mind buttressing armor grants the wearer a +2 resistance bonus on Will saves and renders her immune to possession and mental control (including charm and compulsion effects like command and charm person). If it’s donned by a creature already under the influence of such an effect, the creature immediately receives another saving throw (if one was allowed to begin with) against the spell or effect. If the check is successful, the effects are suppressed until the creature removes the armor, after which they resume. This ability can be applied only to medium or heavy armor.
Clear spindle/protection from evil also don't protect you from charm, only direct control spells.
RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 8
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Here you go Jiggy:
Mind Buttressing
Price +2 bonus
Aura faint abjuration CL 12th Weight —Mind buttressing armor grants the wearer a +2 resistance bonus on Will saves and renders her immune to possession and mental control (including charm and compulsion effects like command and charm person). If it’s donned by a creature already under the influence of such an effect, the creature immediately receives another saving throw (if one was allowed to begin with) against the spell or effect. If the check is successful, the effects are suppressed until the creature removes the armor, after which they resume. This ability can be applied only to medium or heavy armor.
Clear spindle/protection from evil also don't protect you from charm, only direct control spells.
Well that's an amazing enchantment. I can think of several tables that would appreciate it if my barbarian had some armor with that on it...
Well that's an amazing enchantment. I can think of several tables that would appreciate it if my barbarian had some armor with that on it...Here you go Jiggy:
Mind Buttressing
Price +2 bonus
Aura faint abjuration CL 12th Weight —Mind buttressing armor grants the wearer a +2 resistance bonus on Will saves and renders her immune to possession and mental control (including charm and compulsion effects like command and charm person). If it’s donned by a creature already under the influence of such an effect, the creature immediately receives another saving throw (if one was allowed to begin with) against the spell or effect. If the check is successful, the effects are suppressed until the creature removes the armor, after which they resume. This ability can be applied only to medium or heavy armor.
Clear spindle/protection from evil also don't protect you from charm, only direct control spells.
Yep, basically becomes a Must Buy if it's allowed.
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RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 8
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No way! Rukk getting dominated has been the best part of many adventures!Well that's an amazing enchantment. I can think of several tables that would appreciate it if my barbarian had some armor with that on it...Here you go Jiggy:
Mind Buttressing
Price +2 bonus
Aura faint abjuration CL 12th Weight —Mind buttressing armor grants the wearer a +2 resistance bonus on Will saves and renders her immune to possession and mental control (including charm and compulsion effects like command and charm person). If it’s donned by a creature already under the influence of such an effect, the creature immediately receives another saving throw (if one was allowed to begin with) against the spell or effect. If the check is successful, the effects are suppressed until the creature removes the armor, after which they resume. This ability can be applied only to medium or heavy armor.
Clear spindle/protection from evil also don't protect you from charm, only direct control spells.
Mostly for the GMs, haha!
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Protection from evil does work against charm from evil sources.
The latter interpretation is correct: protection from evil only works on charm and compulsion effects where the caster is able to exercise control over the target, such as command, charm person, and dominate person; it doesn't work on sleep or confusion. (Sleep is a border case for this issue, but the designers feel that "this spell overrides your brain's sleep centers" is different enough than "this spell overrides your resistance to commands from others.")
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RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 8
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I have regrettably never had my barbarian get mind controlled. I took great care in raising its will saves. Someone should divulge their story of this happening so that I might at least read of it. :P
These were two of the worst incidents.
His save isn't terrible. He actually has a Wisdom of 13, so he has a decent Will save for a non-caster. I think he has a +7 when raging. He just doesn't have a cloak of resistance because I'm keeping the slot open for juggernaut's pauldrons :(
I rarely am a fan of items or skills that offer a flat immunity to something.
On the other hand, I'm not a fan of save or lose your character abilities.
To be fair, you still have your abilities -- you just don't get much freedom in what you do with them.I rarely am a fan of items or skills that offer a flat immunity to something.On the other hand, I'm not a fan of save or lose your character abilities.
Was being general. Dominated/possessed or Save or Die, both effectively remove the player from play. Hard to have fun with a game your not playing. Good time to get coffee though.
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RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 8
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Was being general. Dominated/possessed or Save or Die, both effectively remove the player from play. Hard to have fun with a game your not playing. Good time to get coffee though.To be fair, you still have your abilities -- you just don't get much freedom in what you do with them.I rarely am a fan of items or skills that offer a flat immunity to something.On the other hand, I'm not a fan of save or lose your character abilities.
Agree. Save or suck just sucks to fail as a player.
I don't mind confusion/charm/mind-control so much though, as typically a GM will tell you to do _____, and then let you do it (you get to roll the dice, move your character, etc). A better example: I don't have any problem with suggestion, because it still gives the target the ability to apply their "own spin" on how they complete the suggestion.
Dominate can get pretty boring though. But at least you get another save if it's an action your character wouldn't do.
Unless I'm mistaken, this enchantment is the only way to get immunity from such effects originating from neutral creatures. This is an incredibly strong enchantment.From strictly neutral creatures yes. However, protection from law/chaos would still provide protection from LN or CN creatures.
Huh, how many pure neutral casters do you fightin PFS? Compared to anyone on the evil spectrum?
I can't help but notice that your witch likely inflicts those same effects on NPCs.
Yeah, I quit playing my witch because I thought it wasn't much fun for anyone at the table when I did. NPCs also happen to be much more expendable than players. Joe the Mook probably wasn't going to live into the next scenario anyway. Jeff the Ranger is probably going to have to live through at least a few to play above tier 1-2.
I am not really in support of introducing an armour enchantment that picks up the entire Enchantment school of magic, stuffs it in a cardboard box, seals the box with masking tape, then deposits the box in the attic, never to be seen again.This.
Yarr, that's what undead focused adventures are for! Also a good number of illusions. They both been in that box for a while because of it.
Venture-Lieutenant, Washington—Pullman
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Mostly for the GMs, haha!No way! Rukk getting dominated has been the best part of many adventures!Well that's an amazing enchantment. I can think of several tables that would appreciate it if my barbarian had some armor with that on it...Here you go Jiggy:
Mind Buttressing
Price +2 bonus
Aura faint abjuration CL 12th Weight —Mind buttressing armor grants the wearer a +2 resistance bonus on Will saves and renders her immune to possession and mental control (including charm and compulsion effects like command and charm person). If it’s donned by a creature already under the influence of such an effect, the creature immediately receives another saving throw (if one was allowed to begin with) against the spell or effect. If the check is successful, the effects are suppressed until the creature removes the armor, after which they resume. This ability can be applied only to medium or heavy armor.
Clear spindle/protection from evil also don't protect you from charm, only direct control spells.
I know I've enjoyed it.
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My response to you is are you also ok with a level 1 spell being able to seal up the conjuration school in a box as well? Because that's a situation that we have already.
There's an enormous difference between doing it for a few minutes as a standard action and doing it all day every day at no actions.
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Many fights tend to go "Ahah! surprise! you're surprised take a blasphemy to the face!" or at the very least "Roll initiative and start fighting!" A minute per level spell doesn't last long enough to use out of combat , meaning that by the time you want to use it, its taking an action to use, not already out, up and running for you. Action economy is king, and a permanent use item doesn't use an action, and works if you're surprised and lose init. That makes it infinitely better than the alternatives.
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There's an enormous difference between doing it for a few minutes as a standard action and doing it all day every day at no actions.
A few minutes is all you need for most of the important combats and there is generally enough hints or time before a BBEG to allow you to cast before a combat and be completely fine.
** spoiler omitted **
So these issues are already in the game and I'm not sure that there's that much difference between having it constantly available through an Ioun Stone and Mind Buttressing or just a few minutes for battle.
Re: spoiler
Besides, Krune summoning fiendish tigers is for chumps. Krune summoning bralanis and an astral deva is where it's at!
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A couple of further notes to this discussion.
1.) Whether or not something should be banned (like the Clear Spindle) is irrelevant. As long as these items are legal, they need to be considered for unbanning purposes as well.
No it's pretty relevant. Allowing something that's "only a little bit more powerful" than something that was already overpowered and ban-worthy is a slippery slope.
It's a big difference if we have a new item or feat that is slightly more powerful than Helm of Underwater Action or Martial Weapon Proficiency (longsword) and if it is a new item or feat that is slightly more powerful than the clear spindle resonance or Crane Wing. You need to know where the comparison item stands. And so, to let it show for the record, so we can take it into consideration, the comparison item in this case is something that should be banned. If NPCs were allowed to carry a hypothetical version of the clear spindle that works on all non-evil, it wouldn't take long before PC enchanters started getting angry.
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Seeing as these two options are still viable for PFS, a +2 armor enchant(that is still pretty expensive gold wise) not only evens the playing field for the core races but also gives options to classes that suffer from these spells the most.
The cost for this is extremely cheap compared to the effect.
My inquisitor spent more than this on non-magical armor.
My inquisitor spent more than this on non-magical armor.
Your inquisitor overpayed. 8000 gold and a +2 AC opportunity cost is highway robbery for something mundane.
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In my opinion this should be like a +4 or greater enhancement.
I think if you step back and imagine 35 % of players using enhancement, it would greatly effect the PFS community. As would likely effect scenario's being developed.
I am not sure why it was banned, but I would imagine it was to cheap for the effect.
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Here's a random thought: Imagine what will happen if a diabolist gets mind controlled, blows someone up with hellfire ray and they fail the save. Better hope the NPC you pay prestige to for raise dead gets good on its caster level check rolls, otherwise you ain't coming back. It's a nice little piece of what might happen if someone happens to get caught in that dominate and/or charm monster.
Its a bit on the cheap side which is why it won't be unbanned. It gives a lot of awesome things for a relatively cheap price.