single weapon rogue build.

[rorek55]

Make me a good combative build with a single handed weapon (rapier, scim, short sword. Doesn't matter) with the following stats

18,17,16,16,14,11

He has to be charismatic. (I am not against twf though. Just wondering if possible as a singlehanded weapon rogue) I would like to prestige to duelist I think.
10th level. thanks for the help!

[XMorsX]

Go with a sap and use sap adept and sap master. Dip two lvls in MoMS monk so that you get access to crane style, crane wing and crane riposte and take advantage of your free hand. Hero's Display along with shatter defences is a fine way to leave someone flat-footed for sap master. Enforcer is also a nice feat as you will be dealing non-lethal damage.

EDIT: If you dip monk, you might as well use your fists instead of a sap.

[XMorsX]

Human

MoMS / Monk of the Sacred Mountain Monk
Scout / Thug Rogue

Put the 16 in charisma, 14 in wisdom and 11 in Intelligence.

1 MoMS Enforcer, Crane Style, Crane Wing
2 MoMS Crane Riposte
3 Rogue Sap Adept
4 Rogue Talent: Weapon Training (Unarmed Strike)
5 Rogue Dazzling Display
6 Rogue Talent: Strong Impression
7 Rogue Sap Master
8 Rogue Talent: Combat Trick: Power Attack
9 Rogue Shatter Defences
10 Rogue talent: Ninja Trick: Combat Trick: Furious Focus

Next tricks you should take should be opportunist, crippling strikes and offensive defence. Also if you take 2 additional lvls of monk you can then take Monastic Legacy and with 3 lvl of Brawler fighter you can have +1 at attack rolls and +3 at damage rolls for free. It gets even better with a custom equivalent of gloved of dueling (if these are not allowed consider 3 lvls on weapon master for the weapon training instead).

[Imbicatus]

Str 11
Dex 18
Con 16
Int 14
Wis 16
Cha 17

Dervish Dancer Bard. Take Weapon Finesse and Dervish Dance feats. It builds itself really.

Edit, just saw you wanted a rogue instead of Bard.

Just go with Swashbuckler and Dervish Dance.

[Daelen]

Dervish Dance is really the way to go, if you're going single handed. If you don't mind multiclassing, a few levels of Free Hand Fighter and/or Master of Many Styles Monk give you some nice options (MoMS of course for Crane Style/Wing).

[blackbloodtroll]

Dawnflower Dervish or Dervish Dancer Bard is the way to go.

[Rerednaw]

There are a couple very long threads on rogue builds and how they measure up.

While you are pretty much set on skills with your large skill pool, functional combat is a bit iffy. Though that will vary by your group, campaign, and how heavy they optimize. With even a little optimization or emphasis on combat has the rogue starting behind and struggling (not impossible but requires some good system mastery) to keep up.

Most builds don't really say how you are contributing in combat until level 7 or higher. You are already 2/3 BAB. Even if you went strength rogue to keep up with strength martials you also lack their other abilities that increase your chances of hitting.

I'd strongly reconsider Crane Style...Crane Style is for fighting defensively...you already take a big penalty to hit by being a rogue...Crane adds another -2 on top of that. Though that get out of hit free card is handy.

What are the parameters for your rogue? Did you actually want to be a rogue or are other classes (like the builds above) acceptable options?

Regarding Dervish Dance, Dawnflower Dervish and Dervish Dancer. All require either being another class other than rogue or extra feats and a delayed progression before the benefits are granted.

Also prestige to duellist really narrows your options. It works with the Dervish Dance feat build...but did you really want to give up all of your rogue progression abilities? If you want to get a better fighter, consider a full martial class and then go into duellist. You can still play a charismatic rogue...just not the rogue class per se. :)

Good luck!

[Imbicatus]

If you want to be a traps guy, Urban Ranger or Trapper with two-handed combat styles using the stat array I said before would be good. Dervish Dance, use combat style feats for free power attack and cleave. You would be a Full BAB class with Favored Enemy bonuses to work on, have Trapfinding, and be a much more viable combatant than a rogue.

[rorek55]

OK. I was thinking along the lines of 10 rogue 10 dueliest PRC. Weidling a keen rapier and a off hand dagger for parrying (twf only for reduced penalties) mobile fighter with a HIGH ac, scout archetype dex based with an agile weapon. He always gets sneak attacks. But usually only would get one attack reg. (But with crippling strike he is a threat) its a much more defense rogue with the ability to go fully offensive when needed and flanking. Crane style may work with the duelist parry since I don't need the full twf tree. Thoughts on this?

[Marthkus]

rorek55 wrote:

Make me a good combative build with a single handed weapon (rapier, scim, short sword. Doesn't matter) with the following stats

18,17,16,16,14,11

He has to be charismatic. (I am not against twf though. Just wondering if possible as a singlehanded weapon rogue) I would like to prestige to duelist I think.
10th level. thanks for the help!

Spoiler:

11str 16con 18dex 17int 14wis 16cha

1 |Combat Expertise, Skill Focus(Bluff)
2 |Finesse Rogue
3 |Deceitful
4 |Combat Trick(Improved Feint)
5 |Skill Focus(UMD)
6 |Minor Magic(Prestidigitation)
7 |Arcane Strike
8 |Major Magic(Silent Image)
9 |Greater Feint
10|Skill Mastery(Bluff, UMD, Stealth, Disable Device, Acrobatics)
11|Extra Rogue Talent(Opportunist)
12|Familiar
13|Improved Familiar(Small Air Elemental)
14|Crippling Strike
15|Extra Rogue talent(Dispelling Attack)
16|Feat(Combat Reflexes)
17|Extra Rogue Talent(Hard to fool)
18|Unwitting Ally
19|Quick Draw
20|Skill Mastery
*If mythic*
Mythic Feats: Weapon Finesse, Arcane Strike, Improved Familiar, Combat Expertise, Deceitful
Mythic Path: Longevity, Impossible Speed, Fleet Warrior, Precision, Precision, Limitless Range, Unstoppable Shot, Perfect Strike, Critical Master, Critical Master

Also for rolling stats, may god have mercy on your soul.

[Rerednaw]

Nice build Marthkus.

I've been working on a viable rogue (combat-wise) and could not just get past the 2/3 BAB and lack of damage when sneak attack is not available. Not to mention the squishiness :)

[blackbloodtroll]

Why don't you just make a short list of things you want your character to do?

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but whatever is on that list, there is another class, that is not the Rogue, that will do them all better.

By the way, have you seen the Advanced Class Guide Swashbuckler?

It is in beta test, but does absolutely everything you want to do, and well.

[rorek55]

here is my build, or, feat layout.

rogue 1-10, musetouched aasimar (scout) (if only core races, human, Iron will at 1st level)
starting stats for a 25 point buy
Str: 14
Dex 16(18)
Con: 14
Int: 10
Wis: 12
Cha: 14 (16)

all level ups go into dex. magic item priority is celestial armor, dex bonus from anything/everything, +5 agile, keen rapier, (then whatver fits meh fancy at that point on the weapon), ever smoking bottle, if human goggles of night, +5 off hand dagger for parrying, (the few times I full attack) then.. meh, oh, mental headband!

feats.
1-combat expertise
2-finesse rogue
3-dodge
4-offense defense
5-crane style
6-combat trick (two weapon fighting)
7-shadowstrike
8-weapon training (rapier)
9-mobility
10-crippling strike
11-crane wing (after ten straight duelist)
13-crane riposte
15-spring attack
17-Iron will
19- ummm.... hm. ??? Lunge?

traits- reactionary and ?????

tips? advice? thoughts? the concept is a moblie fighter that does decent damage, and eventually debuffs the targets as well. so, assuming at 20, I can get a +10 dex mod, +5 keen, agile, speed rapier, + the 10 extra damage from duelist PRC, thats 1d6+5d6+25 per hit, no matter what. When I get the chance to get full attacks with my rapier I will. (for going my off hand attack to parry + crane wing!) The idea is to get into the middle of them, and just grab attention. with this build at level 8 (if I can nab celestial armor) I would have 28 ac, +2 from combat expertise and crane style if need be, then +4 more when I do sneak attack damage for a total of 36 ac on a rogue. Add in wand of shield, prot ring, ammy of nat armor... you get the idea, and at higher levels I can cause one attack to miss, and possibly parry another! I just hope it works out lol.

[ArmouredMonk13]

Hermean Paragon trait is reactionary but a regional trait, not a combat trait, so you can pick up armor expert and go with a mithral breastplate until you can get Celestial Armor. The free feat could be Gang Up which means that if you and 2 other allies threaten a foe, you are flanking regardless of position, which helps get off those sneak attacks. Or you could pick up butterfly's sting to pass up critical hits to the 19th level barbarian with a scythe who will then proceed to turn whatever poor soul you and barbar were attacking together into a nice, portable pile of dust.

[Marthkus]

I would ask myself some questions.

1) What do I do when I can't flank?
2) What do I do when I need to make a range attack?
3) Are my answers to 1 & 2 sufficient given the frequency these events may occur?

As a scout you'll have little trouble after 8, but lvl 5-7 may be an issue.

NOTE: You grab Iron will at 1st and 17th lvl

[Midnighter]

Where are you getting Improved Unarmed Strike (prereq for Crane Style feats)?

[rorek55]

oops, ^ my B. I was gonna take it at 3, mucked that up. will change.

[rorek55]

feats.
1-combat expertise
2-finesse rogue
3-improved unarmed strike
4-offense defense
5-crane style
6-combat trick (dodge)
7-shadowstrike
8-weapon training (rapier)
9-mobility
10-crippling strike
11- shadowstrike
13-crane wing (after ten straight duelist)
15-crane riposte
17-spring attack
19-Iron will

thoughts? Iron will is a place holder, as there is really no where to "fit" it in before, unless I am human.

[rorek55]

oh yeah, drop cha down to 12 and give int 13. gotta have that for combat exp.

[Midnighter]

You left out Dodge now (prereq for Crane Style as well) :)

[Midnighter]

Are you dead set on Rogue/Duelist or do you have room for a dip in Monk/Fighter?

[rorek55]

I just ran the numbers out, and, at 20, my rogue/duelist will 1v1 a fighter and take almost 0 damage . at level 20, with +5 nat armor, +5 ring prot,(added onto any INT bonus to AC thanks to duelist + the free AC/3 levels) + the rid. amount of magic items, He will be running around with close up to 60 AC, BEFORE combat expertise (but including fighting defensively and all other ac benefits) Add to that crane style, and with each hit he does 2 str (and each crit he does 1d4 str/dex/con) he will run around most things laughing as he whittles them down. (and, at 1d6+5d6+~25 with a 16-20 crit range...) Won't take that long. It actually seems I have no real need for an offhand dagger and can free up a feat or two! Ofc thats counting on getting these items (but really, if we get to 20, we will prob have these and more, not to mention the tomes...) with this, he has a ~33/33/28/23 the rare times he full attacks, (17 BaB, weapon focus, 5 enhance ~10 dex (possibly more)) and other fun things.

and no, has to be rogue up to 10 for crippling strike. I really like this, also it seems the crit thing for the duelist is a 1 rank dip in, as there is nothing stating at what level you get it.

[rorek55]

Midnighter wrote:

You left out Dodge now (prereq for Crane Style as well) :)

oops. >.< its late, but level 7 should be crane, 5 dodge.

[rorek55]

That said, its weakness is combat maneuvers. A trip oriented fighter will be difficult, but still beatable. Also, will saves, you can get it to about a +18 but still...

and to anyone wondering about the AC

celestial armor, (this is a tad iffy, most of the GMs I had allowed you to increase the enhancement bonus of "special items" if not, its only 2 ac) but 14 armor, 8 dex, 4 shield (UMD+wand of shield), 1 dodge, ~5 from INT at this point thanks to magic items, 3 from duelist levels, 2 from fighting defensively, 10 base, 5 nat armor ammy, ring of prot +5.

10+14+8+4+1+5+3+2+5+5= 57 . thats only 57 though! well, lets add another 5 from offensive defense. for a grand total of 62 ac! (then add -2 str each time I hit... with a possible (about 20ish% chance) of 1d4 more with a crit + the damage