Wouldn't being open to archetypes be just as open to rogue builds which can fulfill your 'preferred belief',
while also being open to other ones which may be able to fulfill your metric for functionality even if the vanilla Rogue may not?
Whether archetype Rogues can fulfill that metric has no bearing on whether vanilla Rogues can or cannot,
so allowing or disallowing archetypes has no bearing on whether your "like" is fulfilled or not.
Something about playing a class band-aided by archetypes to be functional doesn't sit well with me. Not even the monk requires archetypes to be functional.
Besides, I've seen the archetype builds already in another thread.
Good ranged options: alchemical items/tanglefoot bags/touch-discharged magic items (fireball necklace beads, etc)
You don't need to be amazing for it to be worthwhile, doing something at ranged is better than doing nothing until you can melee.
You can plink at range indefinitely while standard/double moving on a mount indefinitely in alot of terrain.
If Ranged even as secondary attack is important, Elves are a nice race: DEX bonus and full bow proficiency.
What is functional to you? What DPR? What target do we have to hit while being denied the most reliable and easy method of utilizing the classes primary source of damage?
I consider a CRB-only monk functional (although I'm partial qinggong monk + arcane strike + dragon style, I don't think it is required for a monk to be functional. SOURCE: Played CRB-only monk before)
You don't need to be amazing for it to be worthwhile
Agreed, I just do not find those actions worthwhile. Single digit damage is not worth the move action it would take to redraw your melee weapon(s)
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Ranged Combat isn't really meant for rogues to be exceptional at. If a rogue can turn invisible somehow, or has hide in plain sight and can use stealth, and is within 30ft, then he can start doing damage at range beyond something weak (like 1d6+2). Sneak Attack is designed for melee mainly, and is hard to work at range without magical gear or very heavy investment of resources. So a meager ranged option is okay IMO as long as you are decent in melee and/or out-of-combat.
Agreed, I just do not find those actions worthwhile. Single digit damage is not worth the move action it would take to redraw your melee weapon(s)
True, it probably isn't. However it is a free action to draw your melee weapon if you do so while moving, so you could conceivably have a ranged weapon out to use while moving up at 30ft/round, and then once you get within 1-2 moves, drop the ranged weapon and draw a melee weapon.
Ranged Combat isn't really meant for rogues to be exceptional at. If a rogue can turn invisible somehow, or has hide in plain sight and can use stealth, and is within 30ft, then he can start doing damage at range beyond something weak (like 1d6+2). Sneak Attack is designed for melee mainly, and is hard to work at range without magical gear or very heavy investment of resources. So a meager ranged option is okay IMO as long as you are decent in melee and/or out-of-combat.Agreed, I just do not find those actions worthwhile. Single digit damage is not worth the move action it would take to redraw your melee weapon(s)True, it probably isn't. However it is a free action to draw your melee weapon if you do so while moving, so you could conceivably have a ranged weapon out to use while moving up at 30ft/round, and then once you get within 1-2 moves, drop the ranged weapon and draw a melee weapon.
I've found that if you don't have a viable range option, that is a crippling weakness for your character.
Only the rogue has this problem.
Therefore if a rogue-build has no viable range option, then that build is non-functional.
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What is functional to you? What DPR? What target do we have to hit while being denied the most reliable and easy method of utilizing the classes primary source of damage?I consider a CRB-only monk functional (although I'm partial qinggong monk + arcane strike + dragon style, I don't think it is required for a monk to be functional. SOURCE: Played CRB-only monk before)
All you need to do is get sneak attack and your core Rogue will out damage your core Monk.
If you can't, I'm afraid it's a user error and not an issue with the class.
I have another fun build, though its not as powerful as some others. I don't have a full workup, though if asked I might be able to come up with one. The important aspects are:
Halfling Rogue
Cha at least 13 (higher is much better)
Persuasive feat
Childlike Feat
Betrayer Feat
Skill Focus (Diplomacy)
Go around disguised as an innocent looking human child, use your high charisma and diplomacy your way into the hearts of your foes, right before stabbing them in them.
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I've found that if you don't have a viable range option, that is a crippling weakness for your character.
Only the rogue has this problem.
Therefore if a rogue-build has no viable range option, then that build is non-functional.
So, one crippling weakness=non-functional build then. So there goes most of the classes because you can't build something without at least one weakness. A fighter is a functioning base class, but it has the big weakness of low will save. A ranger is a functioning base class with the same weakness. A paladin has the weakness of the class's built-in self-destruct button known as code of conduct. A monk has very few ranged option, so there goes another class. All classes have at least one weakness. The rogue's is ranged combat. And even then, the rogue has ranged combat options, they just require stuff like the sniper goggles or taking a rogue talent a bunch of times. It is a feature, not a bug.
So, one crippling weakness=non-functional build then. So there goes most of the classes because you can't build something without at least one weakness. A fighter is a functioning base class, but it has the big weakness of low will save. A ranger is a functioning base class with the same weakness. A paladin has the weakness of the class's built-in self-destruct button known as code of conduct. A monk has very few ranged option, so there goes another class. All classes have at least one weakness. The rogue's is ranged combat. And even then, the rogue has ranged combat options, they just require stuff like the sniper goggles or taking a rogue talent a bunch of times. It is a feature, not a bug.I've found that if you don't have a viable range option, that is a crippling weakness for your character.
Only the rogue has this problem.
Therefore if a rogue-build has no viable range option, then that build is non-functional.
It's not having a weakness that is a problem, it is being useless when common situations come up. No I don't consider failed will-save a common occurrence. I do consider "It would be good if I could do something at range" a very common situation.
Personally I consider full ranks in UMD and skill focus a good way to get a viable range option as a rogue.
I will try and get a build up... I'm on my phone right now, but will see what I can do with it after I put the kids in bed!
Thanks.
I think rogue's weakness is it can do so many things good enough, never the best at anything. I did enjoy laying traps everywhere when I played a rogue though. Basically as long as you focus on one thing in a rogue, he will be good enough at that while still can do other stuff. Other class just can't do anything else if they focus too much. I was focusing on trap laying, but my skills allowed me to do a lot of things. Especially I took skill mastery at level 10. My DM have two groups on one champaign and the other group had a bard, he didn't make it to level 20 to beat me at being a skill monkey because I helped my team with all their skill checks. They dumped their int stats hard so they got so strong.
I have a friend who played a rogue that have strength as main stats and he did okay. I guess with the right player and right team, you can play rogue any way you want and still survive many encounters.
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It's not having a weakness that is a problem, it is being useless when common situations come up. No I don't consider failed will-save a common occurrence. I do consider "It would be good if I could do something at range" a very common situation.
Personally I consider full ranks in UMD and skill focus a good way to get a viable range option as a rogue.
Yeah, the UMD+Skill Focus can help with ranged options, but failing will saves I find a very common occurrence. Enough for me to take Iron Will on most of my builds that haven't already got a full will save progression. On the build I posted earlier, you could easily swap Iron Will for Skill Focus (UMD) and take ranks in UMD instead of Knowledge (local/dungeoneering) for the same ranged option. It would only lower your will save and make you more vulnerable to dominate/confusion.
still survive many encounters.
That is not the goal presented here.
N Half Elf Rogue
HP 78 AC 24 Flat 17 Touch 18 Fort +7 Ref +16 Will +10 (+2 vs enchantment)
Skills: Acrobatics +22, Diplomacy +16, Disable Device +27, KN: Local +14, KN: Nature +15, Perception +18 (23 vs. traps), Stealth +22, Survival +15, UMD +11
Feats: Nature Soul, Shadow Strike, Animal Ally (Cat, small), Boon Companion (Cat), Iron Will
Talents: Finesse Rogue, Minor Magic (Mage Hand), Major Magic (Shocking Grasp), Trap Spotter, Familiar (Thrush)
Alternate racial trait dual minded.
The thrush uses the UMD Tool and carries the wands. The thrush has only a +10 bonus so the chances of success are low however next level the rogue can take improved familiar for a +18 to the skill. The familiar uses the wand to position the cat and rogue into flanking position if possible. If ranged Combat is necessary obscuring mist is used to allow stealth for ranged SA's. Shocking grasp helps against creatures with high armor classes or when the rogue must make a single attack. Chance to hit is around half for epic challenges on the first attack. Averages 22 damage per hit, with the cat the rogue should deal about 68 damage on a full attack. 45 damage about on a single attack with shocking grasp. The build starts to come into it's own at 11 but is functional at this point. It can kill most CR 10 creatures with 2-3 rounds of combat by itself and remains a threat to CR 13 creatures though DR will be a major issue in some cases. AC is low but should negate some secondary attacks, enough HP to survive a full attack. Fort save is weak but ref is good, and will is passable. Ranged combat is weaker since the AC accounts for a fair amount of damage. The build should be able to SA nearly every turn.
@redliska
1) Can a thrush even lift a 1 ounce wand? Also they don't have hands. (UMD tool? what is that?) I think a monkey could at least use UMD
2) 7 cha + UMD ???? Also no skill focus. This makes using UMD very difficult in the 5-12 lvls before skill mastery in your build. I feel that you need a range option before level 11 (not sure how a familiar gives plus 18, pls explain). You need the UMD for the obscuring mist trick.
3) Shocking graps is usable twice per day, you can't assume it
4) Is the idea that the animal companions damage is high enough for when the rogue cannot flank?
Can't assume flanking? I've never understood anyone who says both that the rogue is useless, and that you can't assume flanking. Flanking helps everyone hit better, is nearly always a preferable tactic, and should always be possible. You're taking something that any melee build should aspire to and specifically disallowing it to make the rogue look bad.
/rant
It stops being preferable at the higher levels, when the move or damage dichotomy kicks in. If you want the first level fighter to move around to the back of the orc and then swing, no problem. If you want the 6th level fighter to do so, he might be giving up his extra attack
I played a rogue a catfolk rogue it was decent melee and pretty good skills mainly used the cha ones
Ill try posting but looks like at this rate most the builds have been said to be "non-functional" so ... if I can I will but no promises
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The first thing to do is cut the hyperbole, so things can be discussed in a rational manner.
The second is to figure out what aspects of the class makes it one of t he most popular classes (if not THE most popular class) amongst the averge player.
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The second is to figure out what aspects of the class makes it one of t he most popular classes (if not THE most popular class) amongst the averge player.
I'd wager its the name. Not only does it have its roots in one of the original DnD classes, but also adds color to the face which many find attractive!
I played a rogue a catfolk rogue it was decent melee and pretty good skills mainly used the cha ones
Ill try posting but looks like at this rate most the builds have been said to be "non-functional" so ... if I can I will but no promises
The more builds the merrier! Most of these builds are still in discussion not deemed "non-functional".
The second is to figure out what aspects of the class makes it one of t he most popular classes (if not THE most popular class) amongst the averge player.I'd wager its the name. Not only does it have its roots in one of the original DnD classes, but also adds color to the face which many find attractive!
I'd rather we stick to goal of the thread and not get philosophical about "why the rogue?"
This is a simple mechanics challenge nothing more, nothing less.
Are we allowing the Dervish Dance feat? If you are not doing TWF this feat allows a decent damage bump for a DEX-based character.
Or maybe TWF combined with Quick Draw and make a two-handed chakram-thrower.
Are we allowing the Dervish Dance feat? If you are not doing TWF this feat allows a decent damage bump for a DEX-based character.
Or maybe TWF combined with Quick Draw and make a two-handed chakram-thrower.
Are we cool with natural attackers for this? Or non CRB spells? I'm trying to only use as much core stuff as I can, but I'm of the opinion that the Rogue is the older brother of a lot of cool classes that stole its job and left it homeless.
Go nuts! It's nice to stay within the PRD, but that is not a restriction (although do try to explain what some of the more obscure feats do)
Marthkus the animal companion provides a constant flanking buddy but it does add damage as well. A thrush can carry up to 3 lbs.for a light load. It should be able to manipulate a wand since only an activation word is required no gesturing required. it has a slightly better than 50% chance to activate the wand and the rogue has a slightly better chance both can try on the same turn. The ranged option is viable for a first attack if you win initiative, or if you have access to a means to stealth before you get access to goggles it just functions at a short range an admitted weak spot but I don't think theres much to be done without sacrificing DEX. An air mephit has 14 CHA with 11 ranks +2 from the item and +3 from being a class skill it has +18 in UMD.
Oh shocking grasp is twice a day but the situations in which you would use it should be minimal too. It's mostly there for the familiar and later dispelling strike and quicken SLA.
Marthkus the animal companion provides a constant flanking buddy but it does add damage as well. A thrush can carry up to 3 lbs.for a light load. It should be able to manipulate a wand since only an activation word is required no gesturing required. it has a slightly better than 50% chance to activate the wand and the rogue has a slightly better chance both can try on the same turn. The ranged option is viable for a first attack if you win initiative, or if you have access to a means to stealth before you get access to goggles it just functions at a short range an admitted weak spot but I don't think theres much to be done without sacrificing DEX. An air mephit has 14 CHA with 11 ranks +2 from the item and +3 from being a class skill it has +18 in UMD.
Thank you for answering. Air mephit hmmm that's about half the speed of an air elemental but still good. I'm not seeing where UMD is a class skill for it though. Where do you see that?
My problem with assuming the AC can provide flanking, is that much the same effect can come from good teamwork. There are frequent situations in campaigns where flanking is impossible or suicidal for the flanker. In the suicidal situations it is better for the rogue not to contribute, than it is for him to get killed or maimed or severely wounded. As those expend more party resources than simply 'not doing anything'/'doing base weapon damage'. An AC is less of a risk for those maneuvers, but should it live it would still need healing.
Oh shocking grasp is twice a day but the situations in which you would use it should be minimal too. It's mostly there for the familiar and later dispelling strike and quicken SLA.
Why quicken SLA?
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Here is a
Stats:
Str10
Dex22
Con14
Int14
Wis10
Cha10
Skills:
Diplomacy+19
Perception+13(+18 traps)
Stealth+19
Acrobatics+19
Use Magic Device+13
Disable Device+24
Slight of Hand+19
Bluff+13
Alternate Racial Trait:
Toothy
Feats:
Racial Heritage(Catfolk)
Catfolk Exemplar(claws)
Rapid Reload (Light Crossbow)
Skill Focus(Diplomacy)
Arcane Strike
Rogue Talents:
Finesse Rogue
Trap Spotter
Fast Stealth
Minor Magic(Insert Useful Cantrip for Campaign here)
Crippling Strike
Class Features:
Trapfinding +5
Sneak Attack +5d6
Evasion
Improved Uncanny Dodge
Trap Sense +3
Traits:
Armor Expert
(insert favorite trait here)
Gear:
+1 Agile Amulet of Mighty Fists
+3 Ring of Protection
+2 Mithral Breastplate
+2 Belt of Incredible Dexterity
+3 Cloak of Resistance
Boots of Elven Kind
Ring of Feather Falling
Attacks:
Bite+14(1d4+7)
Bite/Claw/Claw+14/+14/+14(1d4+7all)
Flanking Bite/Claw/Claw+16/+16/+16(1d4+5d6+2Str damage+7all)
Masterwork Crossbow+14/+9(1d8)
AC=27
Touch=19
CMD23
CMB+7
Fort+8
Ref+17
Will+6
Here is a ** spoiler omitted **Ranged Combat still sucks for him, though in all honesty, ranged combat sucks for anyone who hasn't focused much on it. And its useful to have even a crappy ranged combat option, just in case there are full casters you can't get to in 2 moves (ready action to shoot and they need to make a DC10+damage+spell level if you hit them. Not too hard, but has saved lives before with a less damaging attack). I'd probably get rid of bluff and UMD, and put the 14 in wisdom, but the INT allows you to access wands of invisibility, or possibly greater if you are lucky and other options to help with ranged combat a bit Has about 2k left over for non-combat stuff or wands or whatever.
Switch out rapid reload for skill focus UMD and now you have a +19 to the check. BAM! decent range contribution.
The dependence on an agile amulet of mighty fist runs into the same problems that a dex monk does. Dropping trap spotter to grab minor magic and arcane strike earlier would help for lower level damage. Also allows you to grab major magic which leads to some useful advance talents
Also I calculate your damage as 1d4+10. (arcane strike damage is +3 at 10)
So assuming all 3 hit that is an average of 37.5 damage per round
Compare to a successful feint and stab with a +1 agile rapier is 6d6+10 is 31 damage per round. Now without agile on both that drops the damages to 19.5 vs 25
That's just rough math though. Criting and miss chance aren't taken into account.
Weeee another functional build! (Where does the bite attack come from?)
This doesn't meet the bonus requirements, but it should do fine for the base goals, and as an added bonus, ranged combat is something it does relatively well
Ifrit Rogue
Str: 14
Dex: 18
Con: 12
Int: 10
Wis: 13
Cha: 9
1st: Firesight
2nd: Combat Trick: Point Blank Shot
3rd: Precise Shot
4th: Ki Pool (Raise Wisdom here)
5th: Rapid Shot
6th: Ninja Trick: Vanishing Trick
7th: Extra Ki
8th: Powerful Sneak
9th: Manyshot
10: Deadly Sneak
11: Clustered Shots
12: Improved Evasion
13: Deadly Aim
14: Opportunist
15: (Not actually sure what feat to take here)
Unless you can get access to a source of smoke, early levels aren't as strong. You rely on base weapon damage with a Composite Shortbow, and the occasional snipe attack. As soon as you can afford an eversmoking bottle do so, and then the fun begins, making ranged sneak attacks through the smoke due to Firesight allowing you to see without hindrance.
EDIT: Your Ninja Trick can also be Smoke Bomb, for some added smoke access.
@Daelen
Needs some damage estimates.
Smoke sticks (20gold) for 1 minute of snipping. I don't know why the focus on extra range attacks. I don't think you get much from them. Vanishing trick breaks after one hit and snipping is only 1 shot at a time.
Damage estimates vary based on equipment. The rest is self explanatory. Damage comes from sneak attack and a 1d6+2 Composite Shortbow. The extra attacks are for extra sneak attacks while you're hidden in the smoke. Smoke sticks are a good way to go, as is the ever-smoking bottle. Vanishing Trick is both offensive and defensive, but is a good way to disappear, and then drop a smoke stick or bottle to further confuse your enemy.
Damage estimates vary based on equipment. The rest is self explanatory. Damage comes from sneak attack and a 1d6+2 Composite Shortbow. The extra attacks are for extra sneak attacks while you're hidden in the smoke. Smoke sticks are a good way to go, as is the ever-smoking bottle. Vanishing Trick is both offensive and defensive, but is a good way to disappear, and then drop a smoke stick or bottle to further confuse your enemy.
I don't think you can get a full attack of sneak attacks just for standing in smoke. Just like you can't full attack sneak attacks while under the blur spell.
Well if you keep at least 5ft of smoke between you and the target that works.
Ok so that's a range rogue. Vanishing trick isn't even needed. Grab sniper goggles as soon as you can and that's one devastating combatant.
No, I'm not so butt headed as to think range combat only is too situational.
Well. I think I managed to meet every requirement except "viable ranged option" (best I could manage would be 2d6+2 damage per shot, if you downsized some of the gear to pick up a +1 <Element> Composite Shortbow) - then again, I only built a level 10 character (and rather unoptimized at that) so I'm sure someone could manage to take this further.
Stats: 12 STR, 20 DEX, 12 CON, 14 INT, 10 WIS, 11 CHA
HP: 64 (assuming 1/2 HP per level after 1, 54 if you want more skills)
Total Skills: 100 (90, since 10 are reserved for Bluff)
L1: Skill Focus (Bluff), Two Weapon Fighting
L2: Finesse Rogue Talent
L3: Combat Expertise
L4: Weapon Training (Shortsword)/Trapspotter Talent
L5: Dodge, or Toughness
L6: Weapon Training (Shortsword)/Trapspotter Talent
L7: Two Weapon Feint
L8: (Empty Talent Slot, fill it as you please)
L9: Improved Two Weapon Fighting
L10: Combat Trick (Improved Two Weapon Feint)
Gear: +1 <Element> Shortsword x2 (or Agile, if your DM permits), +3 Quilted Armor, Mask of Stony Demeanor, +2 Amulet of Natural Armor, +2 Cloak of Resistance, +4 Dexterity Belt - has something like, 6500 GP left over to spend on potions, wands, and other gear.
Attacks: +14/+9 (2d6+2 dmg), +14/+9 (2d6+1 dmg), +5d6 sneak attacks
Use Improved Two Weapon Feint to sacrifice your first attack with your main hand to Feint (with +24 Bluff, you should be in good shape to pull this off) - proceed to make three sneak attacks against a foe who just lost their DEX bonus to AC for the rest of the round. Average damage per successful hit is 22-24ish, I believe (trying to do the math in my head), this can be shored up a bit with the Powerful Sneak talent, and there's a sizable damage boost if Agile weapons are permitted.
I don't -THINK- I used any sources other than the CRB, Advanced Players Guide (for Quilted Armor, you can get rid of this by just using Padded Armor, you just lose out on a little DR vs. Ranged Attacks), Advanced Race Guide (Mask of Stony Demeanor) and Ultimate Combat (Two Weapon Feint tree), so it's fairly light in terms of sourcebooks required.
This probably isn't the best build you could use, but it's decent enough (I think at least), and someone could probably optimize it 900 times better than I did - I just feel dirty with stats below 10.
Damage estimates vary based on equipment. The rest is self explanatory. Damage comes from sneak attack and a 1d6+2 Composite Shortbow. The extra attacks are for extra sneak attacks while you're hidden in the smoke. Smoke sticks are a good way to go, as is the ever-smoking bottle. Vanishing Trick is both offensive and defensive, but is a good way to disappear, and then drop a smoke stick or bottle to further confuse your enemy.
Just make sure you only apply the concealment bonus from Invisibility, if you're invisible while inside your smoke cloud. The Invisibility special ability rules make it pretty clear that you still displace water, et cetera, and can be spotted that way (but you still gain concealment benefits).
Well. I think I managed to meet every requirement except "viable ranged option" (best I could manage would be 2d6+2 damage per shot, if you downsized some of the gear to pick up a +1 <Element> Composite Shortbow) - then again, I only built a level 10 character (and rather unoptimized at that) so I'm sure someone could manage to take this further.
** spoiler omitted **...
hmmm two weapon feint is really interesting
I think greater feint is better than improved two weapon feint and helps allies hit target. Greater feint applies to all feinting. If we apply that the build can look like this:Humun or Half-elf works for the feats
L1: Skill Focus (Bluff), Two Weapon Fighting
L2: Finesse Rogue Talent
L3: Combat Expertise
L4: Combat trick(Improved Feint)
L5: Skill focus(UMD)
L6: Weapon Training (Shortsword)
L7: Two Weapon Feint
L8: Ninja Trick(combat trick(Greater Feint))
L9: Improved TWF
L10: Skill Mastery(Bluff)
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Yeah, even with this build, I can't find a way to get ranged attack. The basic concept for this one was my "Harrison Zahhak" build from my Alchemist guide. The ideas behind it were
Race: Ragebred
Stats: Str-7, Con-16 , Dex-16, Int-13 , Wis-18 , Cha-5
Traits: Adopted (Tusk), Reactionary
Feats: Aspect of the Beast (Claws), Extra Feature (Hooves)
With this little set up, we once again have 6 natural attacks (Had to finagle there a bit, but I did it) to lay down the pain. The last thing we need is an AOMF with either Agile/Guided, since guided works better for a Ragebred. Probably minor/major magic talents to pick up Vanish as an SLA to get sneak attack, but that's been done to death. This is just an Alpha Strike build to land a massive amount of natural attacks. If I could find a way to either get pounce or a full round action on the surprise round, this would be a real build instead of a clutter of ideas.
Sadly, I don't think there's a viable ranged attack build, which is just a shame, since the idea seems so cool. Unless you're doing sniping shenanigans to get it down to 0 penalty as well as getting more than one attack around, the Rogue just can't play at a range.
Well. I think I managed to meet every requirement except "viable ranged option" (best I could manage would be 2d6+2 damage per shot, if you downsized some of the gear to pick up a +1 <Element> Composite Shortbow) - then again, I only built a level 10 character (and rather unoptimized at that) so I'm sure someone could manage to take this further.
** spoiler omitted **...
hmmm two weapon feint is really interesting
I think greater feint is better than improved two weapon feint and helps allies hit target. Greater feint applies to all feinting. If we apply that the build can look like this:Humun or Half-elf works for the feats
L1: Skill Focus (Bluff), Two Weapon Fighting
L2: Finesse Rogue Talent
L3: Combat Expertise
L4: Combat trick(Improved Feint)
L5: Skill focus(UMD)
L6: Weapon Training (Shortsword)
L7: Two Weapon Feint
L8: Ninja Trick(combat trick(Greater Feint))
L9: Improved TWF
L10: Skill Mastery(Bluff)
I went with Improved Two Weapon Feint because Greater Feint still requires you use a Move Action to pull it off - that means you'll only get a single attack that round, no TWF or anything.
This build doesn't have a viable ranged option, and sadly gets shut down by magic later in the game, but the idea is too much fun not to mention.
Human
Str: 12
Dex 19
Con 15
Int 10
Wis 12
Cha 7
1st: Agile Maneuvers, Improved Unarmed Strike
2nd: Weapon Training: Unarmed Strike
3rd: Improved Grapple
4th: Powerful Sneak
5th: Strangler
Feats and Rogue Talents are relatively open until you get BAB +6 and can take Greater Grapple. You become the character that gets the drop on an enemy caster or other ranged combatant and keep them pinned down until combat is over and/or they're dead and you move on. On top of Strangler giving you sneak attack, a pinned opponent is also flat-footed and you can deal your sneak attack to them at that point. Magic items to look for would be anything that gives you bonuses to grapple/dex. This is a build a little less about straight damage and more about taking down a single deadly target that could otherwise give your party trouble.
I went with Improved Two Weapon Feint because Greater Feint still requires you use a Move Action to pull it off - that means you'll only get a single attack that round, no TWF or anything.
You are skilled at making foes overreact to your attacks.
Prerequisites: Combat Expertise, Improved Feint, base attack bonus +6, Int 13.
Benefit: Whenever you use feint to cause an opponent to lose his Dexterity bonus, he loses that bonus until the beginning of your next turn, in addition to losing his Dexterity bonus against your next attack.
Normal: A creature you feint loses its Dexterity bonus against your next attack.
Greater feint works whenever you feint, including with two weapon feint.
The first thing to do is cut the hyperbole, so things can be discussed in a rational manner.
The second is to figure out what aspects of the class makes it one of t he most popular classes (if not THE most popular class) amongst the averge player.
If I had to guess based on my long-time group of fellow players that do not optimize it's that rolling lots of dice = better.
Sneak attack is better
Evocation is better
Vital Strike is better.
More dice is more better.
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I think the only ranged build that is viable would need a reliable way of getting greater invisibility cast and using sniper's goggles and eventually greater. Its interesting, but really, ranged combat defeats the purpose of dungeon crawling as a rogue, because you need to melee to find traps before they are triggered. Its a difference in playstyle.
More dice is more better.
This is similar to my own philosophy. More Dice=More Fun=Optimal Gameplay.