Magic Smith


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What is the best or easiest way to advance a player that will gain me the creation feats easily? For example the best player race, class etc. and if I take profession blacksmith does that mean I don't need the individual craft skill, like craft weapons, jewelry, etc? Is there a prestige class that excels at crafting magic items? I've looked at the alchemist but wanting more of the weapons, rings, wands etc. not the bombs and mutagens. Also are there any spells or other ways to speed up crafting and/or cut down on the cost?


To my knowledge, taking Profession: Blacksmith would allow you to craft nonmagical mundane equipment that would fall under the description (like swords, armor, horsehoes, etc). The item creation feats are required for magical items generally.

Usually, spellcasting classes are better at crafting things, because they can learn the spells that are often required to keep the DC from getting out of hand. They generally can also just use Spellcraft for all of the skill checks. Prepared spellcasters are better than spontaneous in this regard since they have a larger variety (a wizard can just learn bull's strength and crank out the +2 strength belts, a cleric gets it even more easily). You can use scrolls instead but I think it is more troublesome; it's far more expensive and less reliable.

There is a feat I think for making magical items without being a spellcaster, but it still requires the other feats to be taken, and probably is not worth the trouble.

If you allowed the Race Guide you can make races that are specialized in crafting, but I am not sure any of the standard ones have any particular advantages besides the free feat humans get. It is kind of neat if you make such a race, as they can gain abilities like having proficiency with any weapon they have personally crafted and such.


Master Craftsman feat allows non-casters to use single Craft or Profession skill as substitute for caster level for purpose of taking and using Craft Arms And Armor and Craft Wondrous Item feats.

I personally favor Craft [jeweler] as easy choice fitting with both feats.


Making a masterwork item and making it magic are two separate things Pathfinder. Yes, one character can do them, but most frequently it would be separate people doing it (and given the crafting time to make something masterwork, it is almost certainly easier for a PC to just by a masterwork item and go from their).

The profession skills are for some specialized actions (sailing, soldier etc.) or more commonly earning money on a for hire basis. In order to spend time and make something physical and durable you need crafting skills.

Their are spells like masterwork transformation or fabricate that can greatly increase the speed of crafting mundane items. They have tried hard to keep the cost the same, so that just having a few spells doesn't easily break the economics.


Wizard is the best general item crafter, while the Soul Forger Magus is the best weapon/armor crafter because he adds his Magus level to craft checks to make weapons/armor. At 7th level, he can craft weapons and armor faster than anyone else, especially if he starts taking some of the faster crafting methods, like cooperative crafting, using assistants etc.

The Wizard, on the other hand, is the best when it comes to crafting everything else. Spellcraft can be used to make any magical item, instead of a specific craft skill, such as craft (jewelry) to make magical rings. Since Wizards are Int casters, and Spellcraft is an Int skill, they are, generally, better at Spellcraft checks than just about anyone else. They also get the bonus feats needed to be a primary crafter.

Most items, I believe, use arcane spells as their basis, so as long as the Wizard has the spell prepared, he tends to take no penalty. Clerics and Druids can be good crafters, because they *know* all of the spells on their spell list. However, since most items are arcane in nature, the item craft DC is usually +5 or higher, depending on how a GM* interprets the DC increase.

So, depending on what it is your guy wants to be making, go Wizard, or Magus. Those two classes will be your best bet when it comes to item crafting. Plus, once a Wizard gets high enough to cast Fabricate, he can really crank out masterwork items.

*By this I mean, the rules are a little vague in that the DC increases by +5 for each category you don't meet. For instance, if you are 5th level and you need to be 7th level to craft an item, that's a +5 increase, but it could be a +10 increase, since you are two levels shy, therefore, two steps away from qualifying. Toss on another +5 for not having a spell, and you're looking at either a +10 or +15 increase in DC for crafting the item.

I knew a guy that ruled a Wizard needing a Druid spell in an item took +5 for not having the spell, +5 for each CL he was missing, and +5 for not being a druid (to cast he spell) for a total of a +25 increase in DC for the item.


Wow, I never thought about that, in regards to the craft DC. I've only had my GM put +5 CL on there for not having the spell. It is worth looking into.

It doesn't generally specify whether the spell required is arcane or divine, does it? I assumed you could have an arcane Belt of Giant Strength as easily as a divine one, as Bull's Strength is on both spell lists, for example.


nobu_the_bard wrote:

Wow, I never thought about that, in regards to the craft DC. I've only had my GM put +5 CL on there for not having the spell. It is worth looking into.

It doesn't generally specify whether the spell required is arcane or divine, does it? I assumed you could have an arcane Belt of Giant Strength as easily as a divine one, as Bull's Strength is on both spell lists, for example.

True, those spells are neutral, but there are a lot of spells that are arcane. For instance, teleport, is an arcane spell (with some exceptions, like the travel domain), so a Cleric, for example, without the travel domain (and appropriate level) will take a +5 DC increase to make an item like a helm of teleportation. Cleric's also don't get access to things like Haste (boots of speed), lightning bolt, fireball, etc.

The 'Big Six' items (stat booster, cloak of resistance, ring of protection, amulet of natural armor, weapon, armor/shield) are, generally, caster neutral, but there are a lot of items that aren't. Some items even require a mixture of arcane and divine to function.

But, Clerics and Druids, don't have a lot of skill points to toss around, nor are they intelligence based, like Wizards, Witches, or Magi, so they will, generally, have a much lower Spellcraft than that of their Arcane counterparts.

For example, my Item Crafter Wizard in Kingmaker is level 9, and he has been waiting until now to craft this stat booster (and thanks to the GM never giving loot, he couldn't afford it until now either). Still he has 9 ranks +3 class skill +4 attribute, +3 skill focus for a +19 Spellcraft. While our Cleric, also level 9, has a +12 Spellcraft (9 ranks +3 class skill).

The normal DC to craft a Ring of Three Wishes is DC 25 (5 + CL); depending on the interpretation of the GM, the DC for my Wizard to craft a Ring of Three Wishes would fall in the DC 30 or higher range. With a lenient GM, my Wizard could easily craft a Ring of Three Wishes at 9th level, assuming he had the funds of course. This is, or course, before adding in the +4 Int booster my Wizard is... well was fixing to make, or adding in his apprentices for assistance, or the spell Crafter's Fortune.

Wizards can easily boost their Spellcraft checks through the roof when it comes to crafting items.


Gives me lots to think about, so what are some ways to boost spellcraft checks?
What book do I find the soulforge magus in?


BroodMaster Summoner with Skilled Evolutions for his Eidolons can do alright as well.


Well, first of all, use d20pfsrd.com as a resource. It's a collection of all the books Paizo publishes (and is legal). Paizo maintains the PRD however Paizo only uploads the 'system neutral' books to the PRD. These books are the Core Ruleboo, Bestiaries (1, 2, 3, 4), Advanced Player's Guide, Advanced Race Guide, Advanced Class Guide (when it comes out), Ultimate Combat, Ultimate Magic, Ultimate Campaign, Ultimate Equipment, Gamemastery Guide, Mythic Adventures, and the NPC Codex if my memory serves.

Something to note and I should warn you about, while the PRD is an amazing resource and just shows how awesome Paizo is as a company, it is, in my opinion, inferior to that of the d20pfsrd. There are a couple reasons:

1) The PFSRD is note restricted to setting neutral books and contains all of Paizo's published work, and many of the works from 3rd party products as well.

2) The Paizo team is often pressed for time and swamped with work through-out the year. Unfortunately, this means the PRD doesn't get updated very frequently. You can find out-of-date rules in the PRD (they've been changed due to errata and FAQs), while the PFSRD keeps up-to-date on FAQS and errata.

3) The PFSRD is run by the fans of Paizo, and they sometimes notice issues with creature stat blocks or inconsistencies in the rules. You will notice things like Editor's Note: off to the side that will let you know about issues and give recommended corrections, but they still maintain the official rule or stat block.

4) Again, since the PFSRD is maintained by fans, you will often find additional content above and beyond what is necessary, like tags for what spells do and do not set ships on fire, or whether they move with ships, you can also find unique things like a flow chart for the grapple combat maneuver.

So now that I've gone off on my d20pfsrd fanboy rant... :P

The Soul Forger Magus is found in Ultimate Combat.

As for boosting skills, it depends on how much the GM will allow you to tinker with magic items.

First of all, start with the highest Intelligence you can, 18 is good, 20 is better. A 20 Int requires a race with a bonus to Int, while an 18 doesn't, but it does make it easier.

Second, take feats to boost your Spellcraft, ones that come to mind are: Arcane Builder (Wizard Only), Skill Focus(spellcraft) Magical Aptitude and Cooperative Crafting.

Pick a trait that gives bonuses to Spellcraft, there are many, so that is up to you.

Put a rank into Spellcraft every level.

Some spells give bonuses to skill checks in general, though most rarely last long enough to benefit actual item crafting. Crafter's Fortune is one that does come to mind (I linked it in a previous post).

Buy yourself a Masterwork Tool (spellcraft).

Get yourself some minions. As long as they can make DC 10 Spellcraft checks, they can give you a +2 bonus from the Aid Another option. There is a reason Wizards always seem to start schools. Not so that they can pass on their knowledge, but so they have free labor! Bonus if you can get the people to pay to be your slave!

Those are all things that come to mind to boost Spellcraft. Remember, don't boost Spellcraft at the expense of being a viable character. For instance, a Magus, while being an Int based caster, should not focus on Intelligence above other stats. Sure, he's a caster, but he's a gish caster, so he needs to have good stats elsewhere. Namely, Strength, Dexterity, and Constitution (or Dexterity and Constitution if you play a Dervish Dance Magus).

While a Wizard could take all these feats and still be a good character, he's going to be missing out in other area. For instance, his spell DCs will be, generally, high due to maintaining a high casting stat, he's not going to have the Feats or Focus that other casters take to ensure their Spells always work. You don't need to boost Spellcraft too much to make ensure success, Spellcraft DCs are pretty low as it is. The only time you should feel the need to do so, is if you have a jerk DM who reads magic item crafting in the worst possible light.

If you have a lenient GM who lets you play with the Magic Item Crafting rules, there is nothing stopping you from making items that boost skill checks. For example, the formula for skill check items is bonus squared X 100 gp. This means a bonus of +10 costs 10,000 gp. Pretty cheap for basically guaranteeing success in your item crafting endeavors.


Professional skills are for earning a living, not creating things. So you will need to use the craft skill rather than the professional skill. Professional blacksmith would allow you to repair things, and maybe modify thing, but not create items.


Mysterious Stranger wrote:
Professional skills are for earning a living, not creating things. So you will need to use the craft skill rather than the professional skill. Professional blacksmith would allow you to repair things, and maybe modify thing, but not create items.

This. There's a reason that in the Craft skill description, there are examples of what you can make for each craft.

Craft: Weapons gives you most weapons, Craft: Bows lets you make bows, crossbows and arrows, Craft: Armor gets you shields (Minus things like spikes) and armor, and Craft: Firearms gets you guns.

If your GM wants to lump Craft: Weapons and Craft: Armor, it's up to him.

Also, if you're intent on using the Craft skill to make items and then make them magical, definitely invest in the Amazing Tools of Manufacture from the Advanced Race Guide. You're in for a world of tedium and hurt if you don't use these at high levels to make stuff.


A forgemaster (dwarven cleric) is decent at crafting as well...

The Exchange

Don't forget the Dwarf Cleric archetype Forgemaster! It's a ton of fun.

Edit: Ninja'd by my own falling asleep with the thread open. But still Forgemaster is awesome.


Country Human Fighter spending 5th, 6th and 7th level feats on Master Craftsman, Craft magical arms and armor and Leadership respectively.

This gives you a racial bonus from Heart of the fields, a skill focus bonus from Focused Study and an assistant with the necessary teamwork feats to boost your skill up as much as possible.

Throw in prodigy and tools of amazing manufacture as well as masterwork tools and you can make pretty much of any of a narrow scope of magic items possible.

Human fighter with an actual intelligence score at 8th level could look something like this:

Craft weapon smithing: 8 ranks, +1 (Int), +3 (class skill), +4 Heart of the fields, +3 Skill focus, +2 Prodigy, +4 Tools of amazing manufacture, +2 master craftsman, +2 Cooperative crafting = an easy +29 craft skill.

At tenth level that is a +37 skill with incredibly fast crafting speed.


Tels wrote:

The normal DC to craft a Ring of Three Wishes is DC 25 (5 + CL); depending on the interpretation of the GM, the DC for my Wizard to craft a Ring of Three Wishes would fall in the DC 30 or higher range. With a lenient GM, my Wizard could easily craft a Ring of Three Wishes at 9th level, assuming he had the funds of course. This is, or course, before adding in the +4 Int booster my Wizard is... well was fixing to make, or adding in his apprentices for assistance, or the spell Crafter's Fortune.

Wizards can easily boost their Spellcraft checks through the roof when it comes to crafting items.

The spell Crafter's Fortune does NOT affect Spellcraft, only Craft(X).

Even so, the DCs are not hard to beat with a modest investment. Remember, you can Take-10 on Spellcraft. You can also have others provide the spells for you, so if you don't have the spell yourself, you can add 5 DC or you can pay to have another caster assist at 10 gp * caster level * spell level * length in days to make.

Per this thread, an average 5th level crafting NPC wizard can reliably hit Spellcraft DC 35 with normal WBL, skill, Int, and one feat. With some more feats, he could get DC 40.

NPC Wizard:
Pathfinder is human-centric, so lets assume a human crafter.
A Wizard NPC uses the heroic array so he has a high stat of 15. Add the Human +2 Bonus, and the 4th level stat point on top of this, and you can get 18 for a normal NPC. Lets see the skill build:
* Int Mod: 4
* Skill Ranks: 5
* Class Skill: 3
* Skill Focus(Spellcraft): 3
* Masterwork Tools: 2
* Apprentices' Aid Another: 2
* Armillary Amulet (2500gp): 5
* Headband +2 (4000): 1
Add this up: 4+5+3+3+2+2+5+1 = 25. Using Take 10, lets him hit a DC of 35.
The Wizard's Apprentice has:
* Int Mod: 2
* Skill Ranks: 1
* Class Skill: 3
* Skill Focus(Spellcraft): 3
Total is 9, with any roll he gets 10+ and automatically gives aid.

For a player to get the feats quickly, be a Human, for the extra 1st level feat. Then allow retraining, so that extra feat can become a crafting feat.

Tels wrote:
I knew a guy that ruled a Wizard needing a Druid spell in an item took +5 for not having the spell, +5 for each CL he was missing, and +5 for not being a druid (to cast he spell) for a total of a +25 increase in DC for the item.

That was wrong. The requirement is CL X, not CL X and CL (X-1)..., so not meeting it, only adds a single +5. Each requirement is either you have it or you don't. Not You don't also have the not listed requirement's prerequisite previous level as well.

Unless the item had a requirement like "Can only be made by a druid", adding for not being the correct class was also wrong.

/cevah

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