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Hey all
I am going to work through one method of designing an item in this thread. Please follow along, as I hope to provide visuals, template use, pricing examples and so forth. I will post about once a day, so that I can plan each post to provide the maximum benefit.
So where to begin?
First, I am going to decide on my plan of attack. So reading all the advice from previous years, this is what is going to happen.
1) Pick my core item and theme.
2) Look to what is exciting about the item.
3) Start with the cinematics of the item, the visual wow - not even considering spells or mechanics at this point. Pick my name, a good name, a wow inspiring read me name (well I will give it a shot at least).
4) Then, once the visuals are defined, only then will I look to mechanics
5) After this will come spell selection, construction and putting together into the template.
6) Then pricing - the mystic art
7) Checking the template is complete, spell checking and preparing my item for its first peer group feedback and review.
8) -you- get to comment at this point on the item
9) Run through on fixing any issues revealed by feedback
10) How to submit.
So the next post is the one that is the hardest - finding that cool theme.
1) Pick my core item and theme.
Right, I need to decide on an item. I must ask myself what does it do, and look to what can be exciting or visual about it.
For the purpose of this demonstration, I have chosen a butterfly cocoon.
It wraps it's occupant protectively, being shed when the occupant emerges - transformed into one of nature's wonderful beauties.
So my item, is going to be something that wraps a creature, maybe transforming it in some interesting and visual way. The obvious thing here would to be to create a bedroll that heals faster - but meh, that's not superstar - do better.
How can we excite more?
A butterfly emerging from the cocoon.
This has promise.
Picture in your mind, emerging from the chrysalis (oohhh, nice name word) sporting giant butterfly wings on your back, a myriad of colors.
It could allow you to fly for a brief time. This is dangerously close to Spell In A Can, but the emergent imagery is strong. Maybe it could disguise you in some way as part of a temporary transformation?
Time to research butterflies and moths, find out how we can take this theme and make it shine.
This leads into 2) Looking to what is exciting about the item...
to be continued...
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Wikipedia is your friend when you are researching
2) Looking into what is exciting about the item.
Ok, what is most exciting about this item is the emerging from the chrysalis. You don't really know what to expect. This is the excitement factor I am going to try and bring to the item.
To do so means we will start delving into the cinematics and deciding on what visual effects will be brought to the gaming table when this item is used. We also need to engender a desire in the reader to want this item.
What I did next was write down a simple list of things about the item.
Emerging. Transforming. Colors. Wings. Flying.
I note my focus has shifted from the protection offered by the cocoon to the occupant and has become fixated on what happens when the creature inside emerges. This is fine, allow you thoughts to be flexible at this stage. The item often guides the designer at this stage.
Now, i could add to my items effects some sort of protection but this must be resisted. The more you add to an item, the worse your word count problems will be and the more likely you will end up with what is deemed a Swiss Army Knife (SAK) item of loosely related effects.
Stay true to your core vision. In this case, my vision is emerging with the ability to fly.
This is the core theme in brief, this is what I need to cover to make things exciting in a world filled with magic.
After a while contemplating, I decide on my base cinematic and effect.
The item will provide two basic effects, transforming the user temporarily in some way so that they can fly for a short time - but the bit that is going to take me away from spell in a can, and the most exciting power, the most visual effect, is that the creature will emerge as a swarm of butterflies, benefiting from the inherent defenses of being a swarm. This power is the lead in to the item when I write it up. The most visual, stunning, exciting part of the item comes first.
So we have a potentially, exciting visual of transforming into a gazillion butterflies, a short flight and then a reverse transformation back to the original form. And then it hit me, why wrap your body in a cocoon to do the transformation - what if, instead, your own body splits from head to toe as the swarm of your new being emerges - oh yes, now we are getting towards a more Superstar item!
Now I know what I want to do, I can start the Description of the item and its powers (we are still looking at the core visual theme at this point. Although I was aware of benefits that could be provided, I am not yet looking at the mechanics of the item).
Try to stay focused and get your core cinematic down.
Also start thinking about your item name, while researching - I have a list of potential words already... butterfly, lepidoptera, cocoon, chrysalis, swarm, emerging, transformation. Also look at the names of butterflies and moths, some of those could be useful too.
... to be continued ...
Good stuff, Anthony!
Anthony just went from spell in a can to something new and innovative. And new and innovative is Superstar.
Now it will be interesting to see how Anthony deals with being new and innovative, when he has to provide mechanics for his transformative effect and assign a price.
The swarm effect should be at least a 3rd level like effect IMHO
Now it will be interesting to see how Anthony deals with being new and innovative, when he has to provide mechanics for his transformative effect and assign a price.
;) - I'm working on it - and taking notes as I do for posting.
Glad you are finding it useful.
Another thing to consider at this point is the possibility of weaving in some Golarion lore. This can be direct or subtle. With a butterfly/nature themed item, Desna and Gozreh are obvious deities to look at.
I am for anything that results in less sucky items during the voting period.....
You are providiing good insight in how to make a good superstar entry, people should take note.
I am also looking forward to how you are going to avoid the usual pitfalls of name, description, mechanics, pricing, formating while keeping the AWESOME ;>
Another thing to consider at this point is the possibility of weaving in some Golarion lore. This can be direct or subtle. With a butterfly/nature themed item, Desna and Gozreh are obvious deities to look at.
This is one thing you all need to consider. I have chosen to keep my example item generic with the thought that it has the wider appeal and that should I make Top 32, then I will get a chance to show my Golarion moxy in the latter round(s).
That said, if my item is paired in voting with a similar item that uses Golarion lore, I would like lose the vote off - then again, many voters also use their own worlds, so it can equally be argued that generic is best.
This is a tricky one, and only you can decide which way you wish to jump.
Ok, I have a plan of attack for 3)
I am breaking my item down into paragraphs, each describing one effect and only one effect to ease at the game table use.
The first paragraph will be the description of my item - this is where I must solidify what and how the cocoon is represented. It is my opening cinematic. Note here I will describe the item, no history, no favored by, just pure description of what it looks like.
The next paragraph introduces the main cool power - transforming into a swarm of butterflies.
The third paragraph will deal with the secondary effect of the short flying duration.
The final paragraph will deal with ending of the swarm transformation, including what happens if you are flying at the time. In this last paragraph, if my item needs it, I would also consider special circumstances of where or why it may not operate at all.
I have now identified clearly with this plan, I have one main cool effect and a more mundane supportive effect. This means I do not have to worry about my item being regarded as a collection of loosely related effects (known as the Swiss Army Knife (SAK) item). This will also focus my writing on the core theme at all times.
The initial descriptions will be written devoid of any mechanics. This way I should be able to get short succinct yet evocative description, leaving plenty of word count for word gobbling mechanics to be added.
... to be continued ...
After some contemplation, I have decided my item will be a pendant. I considered for a while encasing the wearer in a cocoon, but I wanted a more immediate effect.
So the effect will be that when they morph into the butterfly swarm, the wearer fragments jigsaw like into thousands of butterflies, one butterfly having an eye on one wing, etc.
This I think will be more evocative than simple "meh, he wraps himself in a protective shell for a round" and will allow immediate transformation on use rather than starting with becoming a cocoon to hatch from. This removes the emerging aspect I thought would be the main theme, but hopefully has been replaced with an even cooler imagery in the creation of the swarm effect.
This imagery also simplifies the reassemblement of the wearer at the end of the effect as the butterflies settle, reconnecting jigsaw like into the wearer's normal form.
What this also means is that the base item is no longer a cocoon, it has become the patterned wing of a butterfly. Don't be afraid if your base item changes during development, at this point your flexibility allows you to progress a design in ways you may not have imagined and your original base item doesn't get in the way of your description and writing that first draft.
So, my pendant will be something like a thin chain supporting the colored membrane of a butterfly wing encased in gilt edging to maintain its shape. So I have the basis of my opening paragraph there, a little more visual and wow factor and we can say we have paragraph 1.
Let's see...
If I use a real butterfly name, and readers check it out on the internet, pick one that is simply stunning ;) (It just might get an extra vote or two, if your base item allows this sort of thing to be done).
Opening paragraph:
"This delicate necklace is formed from intertwined butterfly antennae supporting a dry pressed blue morpho pendant. The radiant blue wings fold at night, open wide during the day, fluttering gently in moments of excitement."
That's a good start, so let's stick with that - the flutter imagery will form part of the breaking apart of the wearer into the 10,000 butterflies that form the fine creature swarm - this I did look up as the description need to match the swarm traits for creatures the size of a butterfly.
Also, with this description, our slot for the item is now clear... neck.
One last thought for you all to consider, whilst working on the description, my mind remembered a cool lesson at school when I was very young... coloring tessalated patterns.
The word "tessalation".
Another very nice word, good imagery and now going to be used in paragraph two - and possibly the name! My name I have currently on my notepad is "Tessalating Pendant of Lepidoptera" - probably too much of a mouthful when playing in a game, so the "of Lepidoptera" will likely be removed.
A name is starting to form now (it may change as we work through the remaining paragraphs, but for now, we have a working name!) This current name construct is also an overused "of the" style of name, another reason why it will be revisited as we progress the item.
... to be continued ...
20 minutes have passed, my subconscious has returned to that first paragraph. I think the word butterfly is mis-placed and I have decided in the end to use Blue Morpho in the name - the name of the butterfly also implies transformation, and I'm going to risk dropping pendant as well.
So our name is now... (spell checked in case you didn't spot it)
"Tessellating Blue Morpho"
I rather like this now. I can see myself saying this at the table when using it.
The opening paragraph change and why I made it is...
"This delicate necklace is formed from intertwined antennae supporting a dry pressed blue morpho butterfly as its centerpiece. The radiant blue wings fold at night, open wide during the day, fluttering gently in moments of excitement."
I think this is slightly better as there is now a better clue to the reader that the blue morpho is a species of butterfly. There is still some phrasing issues on the second sentence, but I will revisit this later. I want to give it time to settle and be processed subconsciously.
So, time to leave it alone and start thinking of paragraph 2... our main and vote/attention grabbing effect. This is the one we simply must get right.
At this point in the process, I have a very good image in my minds eye on how this item effect should look, the task is now getting that down in the description. In theory, anyone following this thread should be imagining something close to the image in my mind as we converge to the same cinematic imagery.
The other thing you may note is that I am not concerning myself at this time with the word limit. I have already made efforts in this area by restricting the number of effects in my item. At the moment, I am confident I will come in under the word limit. If I don't, then I will not be over by much I think.
... to be continued ...
Note to Paizo staff/Judges: If I am misleading during this example, or getting anything horrendously wrong, or you want to expand on anything I touch upon, please feel free to jump in and let us all know. Thanks.
ok, let's dive straight into effect one, paragraph 2, 3 at least and see what bubbles to the surface...
Things I want to bear in mind:
- I want to use tessellation somehow, because it is a fantastic word.
- I don't want the duration of any flight to last longer than the average combat, so let's say 4 rounds maximum.
- I don't want it to be usable every single combat in a day, so we will want limited use.
This item is in my mind a "save myself, it's gone terrible" item, which can also be used for those moments you need to get somewhere unreachable without flying.
I think once per day is too restrictive on this item, but once per hour is too often. So I have settled on twice per day. This would allow the wearer to fly to a ledge on a cliff face, reform, search it and then fly back - once per day would not allow this. Twice per day may possibly still be too few, but my gut instinct is it's a good starting point.
I can also expect certain things of the reader, i.e. they know or can look up the traits for a swarm - this allows me to avoid a common error of repeating known rules and at the same time save me a lot of word count.
I also need to ensure that I use the word trait, I want the person to benefit from their swarm form, yet retain their own identity while transformed.
So let's have a stab (although duration is in here, once again, I have kept the bare minimum of mechanics). One of my biggest failings every year is getting caught up in mechanics and losing the visuals, so this is a determined effort to not do so on my part.
"Twice per day on command, the wearer's skin outward appearance appears to fracture in a tessellated pattern of interlocking butterflies, their body shatters, each fragment forming a fluttering butterfly. Ten thousand butterflies swarm from this rapidly disappearing mortal shell. The wearer is fully cognizant in their new swarm form, gaining the swarm traits, but are unable to attack, cast spells or speak. Communication with their allies is only possible by forming words with the colors of the butterfly wings in the swarm.
This form lasts for 4 rounds, and allow the wearer to fly during this time. At the end of this duration, or on command, the butterflies in the swarm coalesce together, forming the shape of the wearer as a mass of fluttering wings that settle, tessellating back to their original form.
If the wearer has not landed when this occurs, they are subject to normal falling rules."
Hmmm, not bad for a first draft at all.
Looking through, what sort of things can we see that might be an issue?
Well, it's usable twice per day, so if you fall from the first use, we could allow a swift or free action to use the second use to save yourself from a fall. That's a possibility.
What about word count, it used more than I intended, but as a first draft, it was a brain dump of my image, so I expected it to be wordy.
But lets look shall we in interest...
The main template will add around 30-40 words when complete, so worst case 40.
The initial description was 36 words, with the above section giving us our base complete description being 149 words.
So, if we put everything together at this point, we are looking at a total word count in the region of 149 + 40 + 36 - call it 150 + 80 = 230 words - well within word count!
Finally, I might need to clarify that everything you carry or wear also transform with you. I am not wholly decided if the description as stands is clear enough about this. Something to think about.
I could fix those items above, but I think it would be interesting to see what my review group think as it stands (which is anyone following this thread once we get to step 8) and try and fix things up in one hit once I have all that feedback.
So at this point I am reasonably happy with my first draft description, I have noted some things I may need to cover or revisit and I have the spare word count to do so comfortably, which means I can move onto the mechanics 4)...
... to be continued ...
Funny how your design process is quite similiar to mine, I usually come up with an idea and then let my mind wander around the concept, seeing how it could work, letting it grow naturally.
I do think that your draft needs to specify how the swarm operates in combat, what happens if the butterflies connect with a NPC, some basic stats need to be stated so that a GM hasn't have to wing it. Most swarms have a nauseating effect I believe.
Funny how your design process is quite similiar to mine...
Wow, my thought process is similar to a previous winner - whoo hoo!
Funny how your design process is quite similiar to mine...Wow, my thought process is similar to a previous winner - whoo hoo!
Make that two previous Top 32 entrants. I strongly recommend Anthony's approach to item design. Lots of top notch advice here.
Also, I think there is a strong link to the 'onion' concept of item design which is advocated by Wolfgang Baur.
So lot's of professional people use it ;>
Right, before starting mechanics, I am going to take a full 24 hour break from the item. Let the suggestions, questions and thoughts I currently have mull over in my mind before starting in on mechanics.
Taking a break from your item is an incredibly valuable tool - when you come back fresh, you can tell if it still excites you, often you spot silly things that can and should be fixed up. Plan some breaks when you are designing, you will reap these benefits.
So, if you have any questions on the process to this point, please take this opportunity to ask away.
Anthony, you do realize that by doing this that your item will be up against much stiffer competition?
Anyway, for those paying attention: taking a break from your item is very good advice, tomorrow you can read your item anew and see if it still does what you think it does.
Writing is mostly re-writing
RPG Superstar 2012 Top 16
,
Marathon Voter Season 6, Marathon Voter Season 7, Marathon Voter Season 8, Star Voter Season 9
aka Locke1520
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The competition gets stiffer every year...That makes the whole process more interesting. Hat's off to Anthony for putting this together.
Anthony, you do realize that by doing this that your item will be up against much stiffer competition?
Anyway, for those paying attention: taking a break from your item is very good advice, tomorrow you can read your item anew and see if it still does what you think it does.
Writing is mostly re-writing
I do, but I see that can only be a good thing for us all. So, bring it on! :D
Ok, let's start filling in the template.
The first line is the name, bounded by BB Bold tags... note I have added a space on the terminating tags so that the forum display shows the tag rather than interpreting it. Do not add any spaces in your bb code.
[b]Tessellating Blue Morpho[/ b]
The next line is Aura and Caster Level - these determined from studying the item effects and picking suitable spells that adequately account for those effects. For now, I will mark them as "to do"
[b]Aura[/ b] to do; [b]CL[/ b] to do
The next line, we do know some basic information. The weight of our item is so small, it is negligible, so we enter em dash for this. And, being a necklace, we know the slot - it's neck.
The price we haven't calculated yet, so let's leave that as a to do place holder. This will also be affected by spells used in construction, the caster level needed, the fact the item has limited use per day, and so on. Pricing is the thing I do absolutely last - I must be happy I have the right spells, the right effects and the right duration and limitations in place as they all affect this part of item design.
So this line looks like this...
[b]Slot[/ b] neck; [b]Price[/ b] to do gp; [b]Weight[/ b] -
For the techie savvy, that's a dash not an emdash - I couldn't recall the key sequence on windows 8 to type an emdash, so will update it later in Word where I can insert the special character.
The next line is copied straight from the template - IT IS NOT CAPITALISED - although it looks capitalised in the books, that is just the font being used being an all caps font, use what the template provides exactly as provided.
[b]Description[/ b]
On the next line, we paste our first draft description and then follow it with the straight from template construction line.
[b]Construction[/ b]
Then the last line of the template. Well we are creating a wondrous item - clue here - if you want to use another craft, like Craft Arms and Armor, chances are you are not creating a Wondrous Item - beware this trap, Craft Wondrous Item should be the best fitting craft for your item.
Add any other feats alphabetically sorting them, separating with commas, and capitalizing each word. Then the spells come next, each spell should be italicized and in alphabetical order within the spell list. For spells with name like "xyz, mass", enter them as "mass xyz" and sort them accordingly. Where multiple spells are chose, the spell name is italicized but NOT the comma separating them.
If you have any racial, class or other requirements, these follow. The last item of this part of construction terminates the section with a semi colon.
The cost that follows is half that of price, which we haven'tr calculated yet, so lets leave that as to do. So for my item, the basics look like this...
[b]Requirements[/ b] Craft Wondrous Item, [i]spell chosen to do[/ i]; [b]Cost[/ b] to do gp
So, if we add this to a forum mail to one of our reviewers, or, use the preview option of the entry form (not that you would do something so dangerous now would you), we can hit the preview option and it would look like this (a simple quick way to check everything looks good)
Tessellating Blue Morpho
Aura to do; CL to do
Slot neck; Price to do gp; Weight -
Description
This delicate necklace is formed from intertwined antennae supporting a dry pressed blue morpho butterfly as its centerpiece. The radiant blue wings fold at night, open wide during the day, fluttering gently in moments of excitement.
Twice per day on command, the wearer's skin outward appearance appears to fracture in a tessellated pattern of interlocking butterflies, their body shatters, each fragment forming a fluttering butterfly. Ten thousand butterflies swarm from this rapidly disappearing mortal shell. The wearer is fully cognizant in their new swarm form, gaining the swarm traits, but are unable to attack, cast spells or speak. Communication with their allies is only possible by forming words with the colors of the butterfly wings in the swarm.
This form lasts for 4 rounds, and allow the wearer to fly during this time. At the end of this duration, or on command, the butterflies in the swarm coalesce together, forming the shape of the wearer as a mass of fluttering wings that settle, tessellating back to their original form.
If the wearer has not landed when this occurs, they are subject to normal falling rules.
Construction
Requirements Craft Wondrous Item, spell chosen to do; Cost to do gp
Now this is looking pretty good, the template reminders are in, so what I my next thing I want to do is fix up any issues identified from my first cut review and anything else I see now I have taken a break.
Add in any extra mechanics that I think might be needed.
Then I need to search the spells and pick my spells. This may affect some of the mechanics, but the thing about wondrous items is that they do things slightly different to the spell used in their construction, so areas of effect can change shape or size, duration might be shorter or longer, ranges can be employed, changed or removed.
Do not stick rigidly to the spells you choose or you end up with a spell in a can. Now if your visuals are really strong, and it remains a cool item, you can take the risk and enter such an item. That's your call, just being aware you have a spell in a can is the biggest part of the battle.
So, let's re-visit that wording - (I can see issues in the second para too now I have come back to it, urgh, yuk, what was I thinking when I wrote "the wearer's skin outward appearance" - see what I mean? :)
... to be continued ...
One point I would like to emphasize is slot synergy.
head slots items are around the brain of a humanoid, they do things that are in the main intelligence based, sight based or auditory.
neck slots, pendants, necklaces, etc all hang over the heart and are often soul, emotion, whole being affecting - yeah nailed that with our item we are working on.
feet slots are involved with travel in some way or another.
hand slots are manipulative items in the main, or affecting how well, quickly or dexterously you can manipulate other things.
When you design your item and put it together, take a moment to reflect on your slot. Does it make sense and is it one of the system listed slots (don't invent new slots, lips is not a slot, nor are ears, toes, belly buttons, etc - although if you had a gem of belly dancing, *I* might let that last one slide but the judges surely wouldn't! In this case, make it suspended on a silver chain, worn so the gem snugly fits in the belly button and call it a belt slot item ;) )
Back to my rewording...
... to be continued ...
"This delicate necklace is formed from intertwined antennae supporting a dry pressed blue morpho butterfly as its centerpiece. The radiant blue wings fold at night, open wide during the day, fluttering gently in moments of excitement."
Ok, that last sentence is a doozy, poorly formed and kind of redundant - opening and closing in the day/night, meh - it's a nice image but we can do better and at the same time remove that god awful phrasing.
"A silver chain necklace supports a crystaline blue morpho butterfly with diaphanous wings splayed wide. The wings tremble constantly as if the butterfly is alive and ready to fly."
I like this much better, and it calls out the shiny of the core centerpiece item much better in my opinion - this opening paragraph may change any number of times. This I think personally is much better than the original first draft.
Also note, I am fixing my core visuals before fixing the mechanics, always retaining focus on the core theme this way.
Quick check... original draft 36 words, now we have 29 words - nice. Downward word count for a cleaner description is very nice - this should be achievable generally on this first review pass, resulting in much tighter visuals leaving more words for mechanics.
Even now, my mind is thinking about the butterfly bursting from the necklace as a possible rewrite to tie the description to the imagery of the wearer bursting into a butterfly swarm... This would require more words though, so I have noted to return and try this if I have words to spare once all mechanics are complete.
Now, on to that second paragraph...
... to be continued ...
One other thing to pull out from the template post...
Other requirements that follow spells should never list special materials, e.g. if you are making some sort of scale mantle, then do not in the requirements say "..., requires the scale plate that covers a red dragon's heart, ..."
If you have a special wow material, describe it as part of your opening description in the description text. Materials are not listed in the construction requirements no matter how special/rare they are.
Still fighting that second para :P
... to be continued ...
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RPG Superstar 2012 Top 16
,
Marathon Voter Season 6, Marathon Voter Season 7, Marathon Voter Season 8, Star Voter Season 9
aka Locke1520
|
Still some great advice here. Keep it up Anthony.
If you don't mind, I'd like to offer a tip of my own on the template.
I copy and paste the template Paizo provides in the round one rules then in my word processor I bold the bits the require bolding and italicize the the italics parts so I can see how it should be easier.
If you do this too make sure you turn off the italics between each spell so that the commas are normal text.
Also don't neglect the BBC that needs to go inside the text of your item. Remember magic item names including your own are all lower case and italics as are any spells you reference. SRD Example
... Also don't neglect the BBC that needs to go inside the text of your item ...
I was going to cover some of this once I had completed the mechanics and pricing, returning to a template review where I was intending on pointing out all sorts of things to look form like save vs check, how feats, skill checks and spells are represented, referring to the books, etc., in a description body.
It's certainly good to bear these in mind though as early as you can - and it does start to be automatic after a short while.
Don't forget for your "flight" ability to consider the condition of maneuverability: Clumsy –8, Poor –4, Average +0, Good +4, Perfect +8.
I would suggest: This form lasts for 4 rounds, providing the wearer (good) fly ability. At the end of this duration, or on command, the butterflies in the swarm coalesce together, forming the shape of the wearer as a mass of fluttering wings that settle, tessellating back to their original form.
I am enjoying the thread Anthony.. thank you for posting it.
Also, Broom of Flying notes it functions like Overland Flight. Overland Flight notes Fly spell. Fly spell notes (Good) ability. Just something to point out that the item might not have to mention it if you mention the type of fly spell it functions like. =o)
Very nice, in this case, the flight is more of a short hop over 4 rounds and quite twisty turny as butterflies tend to flitter about when they fly.
Yes, I am trying to get that imagery into the second paragraph, so it's not as good as Overland flight, I am thinking maybe Average or Poor at the moment. Hoping to post para 2 with the extra mechanics soon.
That said, if your item can use phrasing used elsewhere, it is good to use it as you are following expected phrasing and keeping your item consistent with the core rules style. So in this instance, I will likely use similar wording to the fly spell for the maneuverability.
The duration of the flight is one of the things that should correspond with whatever CL you pick for your item.
Anthony, this worked example of yours, is it based on your #2 Superstar entry?
Nope, just an idea I came up with after submitting, so I thought I'd work through it as an example. I can't promise it will be superstar quality at the end, as I haven't finished the item yet. I can promise it would likely be of a quality that has a good chance of getting some votes and a high chance of surviving the item culling during the voting periods.
All this thread is doing is showing how I go about working on an item and the base quality of item you can expect at the end, i.e. properly formatted with lots of focus on the imagery of the item.
I am getting back to it shortly, I am just very busy right now so am planning to finish up to the pricing on Saturday and then the final reviews and how to put it all in the entry form on Sunday/Monday. Please bear with me.
Finally getting some time to get back to this. Ok, Description needs work and I have a new description, but rather than get bogged down, let's look at spells and then some pricing, so that you have the whole process.
OK, let's look at what we have
a) Core theme is changing into a butterfly swarm - so transmutation spell here
b) Fly - even though its for a short time - well obviously fly - BUT THINK, do we really need fly?
I say no.
Butterflies fly - haphazardly, but they fly naturally, so due to the short duration, I am only going to spell select the core ability and put the short flight down to what butterflies naturally do.
ok, now I let you into one of my secrets. Do I have all the books open in front of me ? No. Do I pour through book after book? No.
For this, I actually use the online reference document.
Now why would I do that when I have the books - well, you see, I do have a small lazy bone that tweaks occasionally and on the PRD, there is a page that lists all the spells from all the sources on one page!
[David Tennant Voice]Oh yes![/David Tennant Voice]
PRD - > Open Index - > Click Spell Index link and get this wonderful page - which is amazing help when you are researching spells you may not have encountered yet (or cant remember).
In my browser, I then use find on page from the search menus and step through on keywords, opening possible spells into new tabs or pages.
Then I review my selections - for this one, keywords I used were "swarm", "body", "form" - form being the most productive for this item reminding me of interesting spells, but none of them applied really the best to this item. At this point I return to the spells you are all screaming now... Polymorph and Beast Shape.
The second spell is the most likely candidate, but there are a few things to take into account. We actually need Beast Shape II in order to achieve a Large size, the standard swarm size for this swarm of creatures.
That's a 4th level spell for sorcerers and wizards, so we now know our required CL is 7th. Not that normally this spell wouldn't allow taking the shape of a swarm - that's where the magic of being a wondrous item lies, breaking the rules in tiny but fun ways.
Just double check polymorph, 5th level spell - well well, lookie here... when using on your self, it functions as beast shape 2 - I amaze myself - or did I pick this in advance on purpose to illustrate the wonders of double checking your spell lists? :P
So we now have our spell, don't forget, in construction spells are italic and alphabetically sorted, all lowercase and listed in correct word order (mass surprise vs surprise, mass - the first one is correct for an item)
So when I preview my item, it had better darn well show as
beast shape ii
Ok, we know out spell, I don't think anything else is needed, so let's move on to pricing this sucker up.
This for me is a two stage process, first calculating the "by the book price" and then using this as a starting point to determine correct placement in the wondrous item tables.
I will run through this tomorrow, leaving you to digest and think about how I went about my spell selections and reasonings behind them.
... to be continued ...
Beast shape is an interesting choice, I still need to see the mechanics part in you description to judge how well it would work.
Carry on ;>
Two things here:
* On Spells: As a viewer/reader and voter I love to see the spells required for crafting re-interpreted and stretched to their thematic limit, or at least within their appropriate design space. The whole feel of wondrous items being entirely crafted from existing spells makes a certain kind of in game and mechanical sense, but really it feels constrictive and kludgy.
So working well within the set confines makes you stand out to me.
* On Body Slots: As a designer it is important to remember what else can go in the slot you are filling with your item, and equate the price of the item you have created with other similarly priced items in that slot.
Does the item provide greater utility or general "wow" than a fairly common adventuring "staple"?
Apologies if you were going to cover either of these Anthony...
No apologies necessary,
I probably wouldn't have covered the first point as well as that is what you look for personally. I kind of hinted at it as stretching the spell avoids the spell in a can stumbling block.
The second point I was to cover more generally as a look and compare your item with similar priced items with maybe touching on the slot synergies, after calculating the starting point price using the formula in the core rules for item creation.
Definitely very curious about the pricing example portion
Ok, onto pricing, we turn to the item creation and costing guidelines to start our initial pricing.
And this includes things like AC bonuses, DR, etc, some of which we could relate to the the swarm traits granted.
So let's start with those.
OK, a swarm is immune from flanking, so that's a definite benefit which I am going to say is closest to an AC deflection bonus - now flanking would normally grant +2 to hit, so effectively, we have an inherent AC bonus under those circumstances of 2.
So we now have 2 squared x 2000 gp so far. 8,000 gp.
The inherent core spell is use activated and semi-continuous so we use the last part of the spell use section. The base spell has a duration measured in minutes, even though the item only allows it to function for rounds.
So we must multiply the spell cost by 4 (note 2 in this table).
Spell level 4 x Caster Level 7 x 2000 x spell duration modifier 4.
= 224,000
hmmm, no we worry we are heading off the end of wondrous item table costs. But we will continue as the last part of item pricing are price modifiers...
Ah ha - we have a "charged" item, it is usable 2 times per day.
So we can divide our current total cost by (5 - 2) = 3.
(224,000+8,000) / 3 = 77333.3 recurring
Now, that's a stupid price, checking the tables, we can see that most prices are rounded to 10, 100, 1000 etc, so let's say we have a starting price of 78,000 gp.
Now, if this were a slot-less (slot = none) item, we would have to double this calculated price, but as we have a neck item we don't incur this multiplier.
DONT use this price. We must compare the power of our item to similarly priced items... what items exist at this price point in the wondrous item tables...?
Well, we are in the third table, that feels right for this item, and the items it is contending with are.
62 Robe of the archmagi 75,000 gp
63 Mantle of faith 76,000 gp
64 Crystal ball with true seeing 80,000 gp
65 Pearl of power, 9th-level spell 81,000 gp
66 Well of many worlds 82,000 gp
Hmmm, my gut feel is that the price is slightly too high based on the power of these items. So, let's drop the 8k and look at the 70k mark.
54 Bracers of armor +8 64,000 gp
55 Headband of mental superiority +4 64,000 gp
56 Pearl of power, 8th-level spell 64,000 gp
57 Crystal ball with telepathy 70,000 gp
58 Horn of blasting, greater 70,000 gp
59 Pearl of power, two spells 70,000 gp
Hmmm, this is getting closer, one of the items grants two spells which we were originally looking at if we include the fly. But I think we are still a smidgen too high, so lets drop to 60k
47 Eyes of charming 56,000 gp
48 Robe of stars 58,000 gp
49 Carpet of flying, 10 ft. by 10 ft. 60,000 gp
50 Darkskull 60,000 gp
51 Cube of force 62,000 gp
Hmmm, item 49 is flying, doesn't provide the shape change and the protections it grants but has much greater duration.
My instincts tell me this is the correct price point for my item.
So the final price for my item is going to be 60,000 gp making the cost 30,000 gp.
This feels good to me, and one last check tells me that my item isn't contending with other neck items in the price range - so that's cool too.
You might agree with this price point, you might not, that unfortunately is the art of pricing.
Now submitting your item
When you press the submit button, you go to a page with two entry boxes, a short thin name box and a fatter entry box.
In the name box, place your item name without any bulletin mark up.
In the entry box, paste your bulletin board formatted entry INCLUDING the name between it's bold tags.
NOW DO THIS.
Hit preview... THE PREVIEW BUTTON and only the preview button.
If you have done it right, you will see your item name with a word count and your formatted entry as the voters will see it.
IF all is good and you don't exceed word count for the round, gird your loins and submit. If there is a problem, cancel, correct and PREVIEW again.
Never ever submit without first using preview.
And your job is done, time to wait to see if you wowed the audience.
Anthony,
Your price is so wrong that it makes my head hurt!
If you are still using beast shape 2 then the price for the item should be 22,400.
7 * 4 * 2000 * 0,4 (2 uses a day) = 22,400
This is a far more reasonable amount to spend on the item then 60,000!
ETA - got some calculations incorrect (used spell level 5), but settling on 25K should be just about right.
AND (see I am really invested in this, I am screaming)
Take a look at:
Cloak of the Bat
Aura moderate transmutation; CL 7th
Slot shoulders; Price 26,000 gp; Weight 1 lb.
Description
Fashioned of dark brown or black cloth, this cloak bestows a +5 competence bonus on Stealth checks. The wearer is also able to hang upside down from the ceiling like a bat.
By holding the edges of the garment, the wearer is able to fly as per the spell (including a +7 bonus on Fly skill checks). If he desires, the wearer can actually polymorph himself into an ordinary bat and fly accordingly (as beast shape III). All possessions worn or carried are part of the transformation. Flying, either with the cloak or in bat form, can be accomplished only in darkness (either under the night sky or in a lightless or near-lightless environment underground). Either of the flying powers is usable for up to 7 minutes at a time, but after a flight of any duration the cloak cannot bestow any flying power for a like period of time.
Construction
Requirements Craft Wondrous Item, beast shape III, fly; Cost 13,000 gp
Lesson to take away from this:
Calculate your cost using different methods, check the PRD to find a close similiar powered item and compare all results and select the best possible one.
Anthony,
Your price is so wrong that it makes my head hurt!
If you are still using beast shape 2 then the price for the item should be 22,400.
7 * 4 * 2000 * 0,4 (2 uses a day) = 22,400
This is a far more reasonable amount to spend on the item then 60,000!
ETA - got some calculations incorrect (used spell level 5), but settling on 25K should be just about right.
That calculation 7 X 4 = 28, then x 2000 = 56000 then x 4 = 224,000 not 22,400 - you may have missed a zero on the 28 x 2000 part? The times 4 is due to the base spell duration modifier to get the base price which is then modified by the usage 2 x per day. If you go to the prd you will see on the pricing table that the calculation has a 2 superscript note, which is that x 4 modifier in this case.
The full calc is
spell level 7 x caster level 4 x 2,000 x superscript 2 modifier = 4 / usage per day modifier = 3
7 x 4 x 2000 x 4 / 3
As you are gaining a whole trait template as part of the item, it should be quite pricey as the swarm traits give the pc a whole lot of defense for a short period of time. This is why I thought 60k was a better fit, 25k would potentially be too cheap.
That said, this is exactly why you should never rely wholly on the by the book calculation.
I would not add the continious use x4 to this particular item.
That only applies to item like: Lantern of Revealing
The lantern allows you to use invisibility purge all day long.
Your item just uses beast shape for 4 rounds per use, that makes it unnecessary to add the x4 penalty.
Your swarm traits defences are pretty powerful, but are they really 60k worth for a total of 8 rounds per day?? I say no.
The traits are more powerful than gaseous form, so assigning them the 4th level spell price tag more than suffices.
Your item's power level is spell level 5 max (imho).
Using the polymorph spell as a baseline then it would result in a 36k price tag (9*5*2000)*0,5 = 36k
Which is half your 60k amount, so I am feeling quite confident that the 25k to 35k range is right and 60k is wrong bad ;>
A little reflection
I really like RPG Superstar, I have entered every year so I am really invested in the competition.
Likewise, people are also really invested in their items so if your item is picked over theirs, you will be exposed to feedback
Design is often a clash of ideas and that can get messy, I've got this feeling that I am bit more direct and forceful than I usually am, but that is just a sign of commitment.
I have to agree with Maurice, it should definitely be in the same price range as Cloak of the Bat, maybe slightly higher for the swarm traits, maybe a little lower for less usefulness and its shorter time window
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I love that you are all thinking about pricing and typing your thoughts, it's an area that is light on examples even now, so this is really healthy for the competition and the entrants.
Anthony, thanks for this breakdown, and thanks Maurice et al for chiming in.
The problem is that a lot of the calculations and shorthand make no sense to me:
OK, a swarm is immune from flanking, so that's a definite benefit which I am going to say is closest to an AC deflection bonus - now flanking would normally grant +2 to hit, so effectively, we have an inherent AC bonus under those circumstances of 2.
So we now have 2 squared x 2000 gp so far. 8,000 gp.
[Emphasis mine]. How is any of this arrived at?