Enlarge Person... Am I missing something?

[Warbec]

Ok guys... I started Roleplaying very recently (altough I already bought the great majority of the books) and I have an active campaign and also playing Rise of the Runelords as a Wizard.

I'm a Transmutation Specialist and I love the idea of the Enlarge Person but something is making my head spin around.
This is probably something basic for you and can explain it better for me.

CoreRulebook wrote:

This spell causes instant growth of a humanoid creature, doubling its height and multiplying its weight by 8. This increase changes the creature's size category to the next larger one. The target gains a +2 size bonus to Strength, a –2 size penalty to Dexterity (to a minimum of 1), and a –1 penalty on attack rolls and AC due to its increased size.

So I can see these results:

• You get +2 Strenght (so +1 to STR modifier) which makes +1 melee attack roll and +1 damage roll
  
• You get -2 Dexterity (so -1 to DEX modifier) which makes -1 ranged attack rolls and -1 AC
  
• You get -1 to attack rolls due to my size increament
  
• You get -1 AC due to my size increament

After my math (which is not the best)... I see this total:

• Melee Attack Roll: +1-1= 0
  
• Melee Damage Roll: +1= +1
  
• Ranged Attack Roll: -1-1= -2
  
• Armor Class: -1-1= -2

So.... we are trading 2 AC for +1 damage?
And also (but not as important) -2 Ranged Attack rolls?

p.s.- Sorry for my English, it's not my native tongue.

[LoneKnave]

You also get a weapon damage die increase (another +1 dmg usually) from being enlarged, as well as increased range (important!), and probably some other stuff I forget.

[Espy Kismet]

Actually you also gain 10 foot reach, and your weapons' damage die increases to the next level

[mplindustries]

No, you are trading 2AC for increased natural reach.

Everything else is irrelevant compared to how unbelievably powerful that is for a low level spell.

Of course, you're also short quite a bit of damage. It's +1 damage from Strength (possibly another 1 if you're using a two-hander), but there's also the increased damage from size.

For example, a longsword goes from 1d8 to 2d6, which is effectively +2.5 damage on top of the strength bonus.

But really, the reach is where it's at.

[Nefreet]

CMD goes up 1, and CMB goes up 2, as well.

[Wiggz]

For comparion's sake, not taking into account the -1 hit to Reflex saves, Initiative or ranged attacks nor the bump in CMD:
.
.
.
.
1st level Fighter
STR - 16, DEX - 14
Equipment: Chainmail, Greatsword
Feats: Power Attack, Furious Focus

Standard:
Attack +4
+1[BAB] +3[STR] -0[Power Attack w/Furious Focus]
Damage: 2d6+7
2d6[Greatsword] +4[STR] +3[Power Attack]
AC 18
10 +6[Chainmail] +2[Dex]

with Enlarge Person:
Attack +4 w/Reach*
+1[BAB] +4[STR] -0[Power Attack w/Furious Focus] -1[Large size]
Damage: 3d6+9
2d6[Greatsword] +6[STR] +3[Power Attack]
AC 16
10 +6[Chainmail] +1[Dex] -1[Large size]

* remember that with Reach, you might often get an attack of opportunity when a medium sized or smaller creature attempts to close with you. An extra attack per round for a 1st level spell is a pretty big deal. Alternately, having Reach might save you from facing a similar situation against a larger foe.

[Name Violation]

enlarged greatsword should be 3d6 not 2d6

[Warbec]

I see what I was missing. The spell enlarges ALSO the clothes/armor/weapon of the target. Which basically makes the weapon rise up in a tier (for some reason I wasn't taking into account that the weapon also enlarges... silly Warbec)
I remembered the reach but forgot I can get an attack of opportunity.

Thank you very much guys :)

Wiggz wrote:

Damage: 2d6+7
2d6[Greatsword] +4[STR] +3[Power Attack]
with Enlarge Person:
Damage: 3d6+9
3d6[Greatsword] +6[STR] +3[Power Attack]

Since you get +2 Strenght, your STR modifier should be +1 extra instead of 2 right?

[thejeff]

Warbec wrote:

Quote:

Damage: 2d6+7
2d6[Greatsword] +4[STR] +3[Power Attack]
with Enlarge Person:
Damage: 3d6+9
3d6[Greatsword] +6[STR] +3[Power Attack]

Since you get +2 Strenght, your STR modifier should be +1 extra instead of 2 right?

2-Handed weapon. Going from 16 Str to 18 takes you from +(3*1.5)=4 to +(4*1.5)=6.

[Jacob Saltband]

Your forgetting those example use a 2handed weapon so damage is 1.5x str mod.

[Warbec]

Ok, now I get it.
We've been dealing with 1-handers in my campaign AND "Rise of the Runelords". So I always forget that it's *1.5 instead of *1

My campaign has 1 Fighter (longsword+shield), Rogue (dual-weild), Druid, Bard, and a Cleric
RotR has 1 Battle Cleric (longsword+shield), Monk (unnarmed), Wizard (moi), Rogue (entered during today's session) and Ranger.

Thanks a bunch again :D

[Gargs454]

Basically as others have said. Damage goes up fairly significantly plus you get reach which can also lead to more damage. Additionally, it makes it easier for you to be a chokepoint. Double doors? No problem, I'll just stand in the doorway. At that point, the enemies can't get to your allies that are behind you. Not always ideal of course, but can be real handy for protecting the party. The CMD/CMB bonus is also nice.

[Gavmania]

The only thing to remember is that ranged weapons lose their size bonus to damage as soon as they leave your person, so that they reduce to normal again (though you still get the Extra STR bonus if appropriate). Combine this with -2 to hit with ranged attacks and you can see it's useless with ranged attacks. Use on a melee striker, especially one who has enough DEX to take advantage of the possible Attacks of Opportunity from the reach and it's a big bonus.

Only downside is that its a full round casting time. If you can, use a wand to reduce it to a standard action.

[Khrysaor]

Also, some skills are subsequently affected by your large size. -4 stealth, but you shouldn't be using this if you're a stealth guy. +4 intimidate for being larger than your opponent. -4 for being smaller. Few other skills, but the main benefit of this spell is really the reach it grants you which is very powerful for controlling a battlefield. Take a reach weapon and enlarge yourself and now your threatened range is 20 ft. Anything moves inside your threat and you smash it.

[Wiggz]

Name Violation wrote:

enlarged greatsword should be 3d6 not 2d6

Typo - didn't catch it in time to change it. Its reflected in the emboldened damage, but thanks for re-iterating that point because its significant.

[Moondragon Starshadow]

I guess the only thing not mentioned is how to fit into a smaller space as a large person. See the rules on Squeezing on page 193, it spells it out clearly enough.

[joe kirner]

potion of enlarge person will take effeect immediately. spell, scroll and
wand take same casting time as the spell (1 rd).
Using a reach weapon will give you a 20' reach. throw in combat reflexes and a good dex for more fun.
you will have squeezing issues at times as per previous post.

[GralphidB]

Gavmania wrote:

Only downside is that its a full round casting time. If you can, use a wand to reduce it to a standard action.

Unfortunately, wands don't speed up casting.

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items#TOC-Spell-Trigger wrote:

Wands use the spell trigger activation method, so casting a spell from a wand is usually a standard action that doesn't provoke attacks of opportunity. (If the spell being cast has a longer casting time than 1 action, however, it takes that long to cast the spell from a wand.)

[Syx]

It also came up recently in play that since your weight is increased 8x so are your weapons...thus making them much more difficult to shatter.