If a monk takes Spell as a card feat, does he gain the arcane or divine skill? if not, then its just a one use? seems redundant.
A once per session spell isn't that bad. A Cure spell is Basic so you can have one of those once per game. It's better than putting a Potion of Healing in an item slot since Cure is a d4+1 instead of just a d4. And you can use something else if you think a different basic card might be useful for a specific scenario.
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A once per session spell isn't that bad. A Cure spell is Basic so you can have one of those once per game. It's better than putting a Potion of Healing in an item slot since Cure is a d4+1 instead of just a d4. And you can use something else if you think a different basic card might be useful for a specific scenario.
Of course, you can only grab that basic card if there are no available spells when the party pools cards at the end.
Unless, of course, Sajan goes with the Drunken Master role and can (IIRC) recharge that potion of healing with a Powers feat...
He can indeed. He has to succeed at a fortitude 6 check to recharge it instead of banishing it. So he still risks loosing it from his deck.
When you play a boon with the Liquid trait, succeed at a Fortitude 6 check to recharge it instead of banishing it.
But he can also pick up the power to add 6 to his check to acquire items with the liquid trait. So picking up more potions shouldn't be too hard.
Add 6 to your check to acquire a boon with the Liquid trait.
I've already picked up one check box in constitution for a version of him because I'm so excited about this role card. And notice both powers say "a boon" not an item. So presumably their could be a spell with the liquid trait that he'd have to banish for not having arcane or divine, but then his power would let him try to recharge it instead. Looking at the spell list from the character sheets, I don't know that there is one, but it wouldn't be impossible.
Unless, of course, Sajan goes with the Drunken Master role and can (IIRC) recharge that potion of healing with a Powers feat...
If that feat is taken, then it might be a balanced trade-off. Sajan doesn't automatically get to recharge potions, he has to make a check so it's not guaranteed. And again, the Cure spell gives an extra card. So I'd say it's a toss up at that point, since if you do make the recharge, that is basically an extra card as well.
Of course, you can only grab that basic card if there are no available spells when the party pools cards at the end.
I see this as being somewhat debatable, due to this line:
"Start by combining your discard pile with your hand, your character deck, and any cards you buried under your character card; you may then freely trade cards with other players."
It says you MAY freely trade cards with other players. At this point you're not forced to, so as long as your character alone has an open slot, he should be able to pick a spell he wants from the box. Of course, the line you are referencing is then:
"If you can’t construct a valid deck from the cards your group has available because you don’t have enough of certain card types, choose the extra cards you need from the box, choosing only cards with the Basic trait."
So then, is it truly that you MAY trade, or does the later line mean that you have to trade if you have an empty slot that someone else's junk card can fill? Personally, I would prefer that you aren't forced to take other players' scraps if you don't want them.
But also then, by theory, you could work the system so that you can trade cards so that you open up free slots so you can get any basic card you want to replace it. Say for example, you like your potions. You used one in the last game, which opened up a slot for your items. But you also acquired a crowbar during the scenario, so your item slots are now full. You MAY trade, so you trade your unwanted crowbar for someone else's unwanted extra piece of armor. They didn't need the item and you didn't need the armor, but now you have a free item slot to fill with what you want.
This might need some clarification if it hasn't already been given. Personally, I think you should be able to freely rebuild your deck in between scenarios from the box as long as you stay within the Basic+ restriction for your current adventure. Kind of like going to the shop in between quests. Makes sense to me, anyway.
I think you have to take what your group has. You may trade. But you can only go to the box if what your whole group has available can not let you construct a valid deck. The can not means there is no viable option to do so. So...
You need an item card. Does someone else in your group have an extra item they won't be keeping? Even trading nothing for something is a trade. You may (as in it is permissible to do so) trade with them, even "I'll give you nothing for that item card." Therefore you can (as in are capable of) constructing a valid deck from the cards your group has available. So you are not allowed to go to the box, because you are not in a situation where you can't construct a valid deck (as in, there is an option for you to construct a valid deck from what your group has via trading). It might stink that you get stuck with a divine spell when you are an arcane caster. But them's the breaks.
See these posts (and the thread they are in as a whole) for a discussion about this:
http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2q2qt?Rebuilding-deck-between-scenarios#4
http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2q2qt?Rebuilding-deck-between-scenarios#6
Of course, house rules happen, and as Vic and Mike seem to say, dropping an undesirable item for a basic item probably won't break the game. But I take what I have to take. And it just makes me want to spend a blessing to acquire a better card so I can get rid of the undesirable one after the next scenario.
I think you have to take what your group has. You may trade. But you can only go to the box if what your whole group has available can not let you construct a valid deck. The can not means there is no viable option to do so.
Right, but if your first choice is that you may trade and you decline to do so, then you can not construct a valid deck from what your whole group has available because you are not trading and therefore those cards are not available to you. This is why I said it's debatable and that discussion does not give a definite answer from a developer on this particular issue.
I'm fine with not opening up the box to freely rebuild, but being force to take junk from other players seems counter to the nature of the game. Example: I lost a weapon because it was banished during the last game (either to close a location or from a monster effect or something). I need to fill the slot. I'm Dex based and don't have weapon proficiency, but the only extra weapon cards are melee weapons that have a penalty for non-proficiency. That's crap if you're forced to take one of those cards.
Edit: So how I think it should work, I would say you have a choice at the end of a scenario. Do you want to trade, yes or no. If you pick yes, all of the groups cards are available to you and your cards to then if you so choose. The later rule of "construct a valid deck from the cards your group has available" is applied and you have to use any possible cards before being able to go to the box for basic+ cards. If you pick no, you cannot trade cards. You can't get extra cards that other players gained and the extra cards you gained are not available to them. If you have any empty card slots, you go to the box using the basic+ rule.
Playing by the rules (and how we play), you have a pool of cards at the end of the scenario. Your entire group is required to make decks from this pool. You may draw Basic cards from the box only if there are no cards available to fill all the card slots.
The game is not meant to simulate "shopping" between scenarios. There are plenty of home rule variants for that if you want that sort of thing, and aren't too worried about maxing out your characters too quickly.
If you want to do it that way, and your team is ok with it too, then its fine. But in my opinion, that is a house rule.
Just because you'd prefer to decline to trade doesn't negate the fact that you can (have the ability to) construct a valid deck without going to the box. You can construct a valid deck. Yes, you'd have to trade to do so. But it is possible. Why is it possible? Because you may (have permission from the game designers) to trade with other players. The rules aren't a sequence.
Otherwise the clause about only going to the box because you "can’t construct a valid deck from the cards your group has available because you don’t have enough of certain card types.." is pointless. Does your group have cards available? Yes. To get them you have to "trade" but your group has cards available. You are interpreting that phrase as saying if you "can't construct a valid deck from the cards you had and all the trades you were willing to make because you don't have enough of certain card types..." But it doesn't say that. It says you only go to the box if your group doesn't have cards available. They are available. To get them you have to trade.
Oops. Mike posted just before I hit submit. So to clarify, I'm not saying Mike is playing by a house rule. I'm saying that going to the box because you don't want to accept an undesirable card from another player would be a house rule.
Mike's rule obviously aren't house rules.
To get this back closer to the original discussion, I wonder if Mike would be willing to divulge (via a spoiler warning of course) whether we'll see any spells with the liquid trait in decks 3-6 for Rise of the Runelords. If not, I understand.
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No spells with the Liquid trait are planned. Still, you may have just put an idea in my head.
Playing by the rules (and how we play), you have a pool of cards at the end of the scenario. Your entire group is required to make decks from this pool. You may draw Basic cards from the box only if there are no cards available to fill all the card slots.
Fair enough. That's my official answer, then. Thank you.
The game is not meant to simulate "shopping" between scenarios. There are plenty of home rule variants for that if you want that sort of thing, and aren't too worried about maxing out your characters too quickly.
And to clarify, I'm beyond wanting to simulate "shopping" between scenarios. I understand that many locations simulate that during scenarios. At this point, I'm just trying to find a way to make sure characters don't get worse because they get rid of cards during a scenario and other characters happen to have extra junk cards of the same type, forcing them to take those instead of filling the empty slots with cards of comparable power and relevance for their decks. Yes, it might be a situational case that doesn't come up very often, but it can still happen.
If you want to do it that way, and your team is ok with it too, then its fine. But in my opinion, that is a house rule.
Yes, with Mike's statement I acknowledge that it would be for sure, 100% a house rule. Sorry for the somewhat derailment of the topic, but thank you for discussing.
No spells with the Liquid trait are planned. Still, you may have just put an idea in my head.
Thanks for the prompt reply. Now I know not to take the spell card based on the possibility.
I still love Drunken Master, even without a liquid trait spell. The flavor of his role card seems so perfectly thought out.
Sorry for the somewhat derailment of the topic, but thank you for discussing.
I don't think that was a derailment. It might not have been the exact original question, but it would surely factor into deciding whether or not to take a spell card feat for Sajan. Just like my question about liquid trait spell cards would factor in. You have a question that needed answering that would potentially affect what the OP was talking about. I'm glad we would could discuss it in friendly and helpful way. I'm even more glad that the people that made the game get involved in helping to clarify things. Because no matter how hard I might argue for my opinion, it is still only my opinion.
No spells with the Liquid trait are planned.
Hmm... Wonder if the Acidic Sling +3 from Sins of the Saviors has the liquid trait...
No spells with the Liquid trait are planned. Still, you may have just put an idea in my head.
What, a potion that gives you temporary Arcane or Divine ability? (I know this makes no sense in Pathfinder, but this doesn't have to strictly follow Pathfinder)
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No spells with the Liquid trait are planned.Hmm... Wonder if the Acidic Sling +3 from Sins of the Saviors has the liquid trait...
Only if it's from Singapore.