Rebuilding deck between scenarios.

[claudekennilol]

I asked this at gencon, but Mike wasn't there to definitively say at the time. (My wife and I also came back with a list of questions each day).

But here it is, If we have a shortage of cards we're able to "go back to town" as I like to think of it, and replenish our stock of basic cards.

So I was playing with Sajan, I used my caltrops fairly early in the scenario. Later I picked up a potion of lesser resist elements (or something along those lines). I didn't end up banishing any other items. So had the four items for my deck. So after the scenario, are there any constraints against "going back to town" and "selling" (getting rid of) items (spells, weapons, allies, etc) I don't want and "buying" (replenishing) basic cards that are actually more suited to my character?

It seems kind of punishing that getting a "useless" (determined by the holder) item keeps you from picking up an otherwise useful basic item when an item could be banished for whatever reason through the scenario and if you're below the threshold you can replenish it with your choice of item.

edit: I believe Vic is who we asked this. He basically said, "that seems like it's the spirit of the game, but we don't say one way or the other."

[DrSnooze]

I agree it's unclear in the rules, so I think it's up for interpretation. One potential problem is that you might have players who pick specific items for the upcoming scenario. For example, you might pick up Holy Water if you know the Henchmen are going to be undead. I don't know if this is in the spirit of the rules or not. To me, I think this would add to the prep time of every adventure, so I am inclined to say this isn't allowed.

[Wruin]

We made a house rule that allows you to select basic boons any time you create your deck.

[Mike Selinker]

I believe this would fall under "I wouldn't say that's a good idea, but I wouldn't say it's a terrible one either."

[Wruin]

I appreciate the feedback. We just allowed it without much discussion. It seemed that since you had access to the cards for original deck construction, you would always have access to them. Now that we are getting the game down, we probably don't need a handicap. I will propose removing this rule.

[Vic Wertz]

claudekennilol,

While swapping a card you acquired but don't want for a basic card of the same type isn't going to break the game, I'd also like to clarify one thing:

I think you and your wife mentioned that you both were playing characters that couldn't keep cards of a given type (spells, I think?) in your deck, and you were wondering if you could swap a spell you acquired for a card of a different type.

That's actually a bit better than swapping for a card of the same type, and after additional thought, I'd personally say no to that one in my game.

[Belky]

I'm trying to fully understand what is being suggested here. Are we only talking about not being to trade one card for another (from the box) between scenarios? I can understand trying to get rid of cards that you can't use; in the earlier example, you got a spell card and can't keep spell cards. If no one else needs that card, to just put it back in the box. Also, I would presume that if you used (banished) some your items cards, you should be able to pull from the box get back up to the number required for your deck (using the card rules for starting a new character at your current adventure level).

In summary, between scenarios, you can discard down to your card list or take cards to increase up to your card list, but not exchange cards with the stock in the box. Correct?

[Throknor]

As I understood it the characters can trade among themselves after a game. Something I did after my first solo run-through with three characters was go one by one and figure out the extra cards for each deck and then trade among those as necessary. So even if one character had exactly what they needed as long as another had extras she could still trade out the less useful card, be it item, spell, or whatever.

I got the impression that even though random acquisitions might not be super useful, there are generally enough through a game that things work out over time.

That being said, one possibility is to make a mini-store to trade with. Being able to replenish with anything seems over-powerful and inconsistent. But drawing from the boon* decks 2 + #Chars of random basic (or the level - 2 rule) cards to trade with after a scenario doesn't seem too breaking. It would represent both being able to resupply while also being limited to small shops' supplies. (*Note: I would not include Blessings or Loot. You get what you get for those.)

Just a thought. Would be too fiddly to some, unnecessary to others. But possibly a compromise between being stuck with useless random items and being able to over-prepare for every scenario.

[Mike Riley 302]

One reason I could see for NOT allowing this is that, thematically, many location in adventures represent shops.

While loading up on Holy Water for an Undead-heavy adventure seems like "cheating," I suppose it's no different than making sure someone is playing the Cleric.

So, I guess that if you're limiting yourself to cards that a brand-new character could acquire, it's not really cheating.

[the_Widowmaker]

I can't help but get the feeling that this will be a moot argument once a couple of the adventure paths come out...

[TClifford]

The rules are specific that you have to rebuild your decks with the cards on hand and won during the adventure. Only if you can't rebuild your decks with the cards on hand can you go into the box for Basic cards.

Still, I have no problem with people rebuilding their decks with basic cards from the box at will. In my mind, you have earn some gold and such in the adventure and go into town to pick up some new gear and potions. It does point out one thing. If you allow this, then Banishing a basic card is basically the same as Burying a basic card. You can always get it back between adventures. Eventually after Hook Mountain Massacre, you can pick up any card out of the decks because you can start removing Basic boon cards from the game after that adventure.

At that point, I would go back to the rules in the game that states you have to use the cards you have and won in the adventure first. If you don't have enough to fill out your card list, only then can you go into the box to get more cards.

[ryric]

Since trading cards happens before rebuilding your decks, you could always hand the cards you don't want to a player who doesn't need them until you're below your deck amount, then retrieve the basic cards you want to repopulate your deck. Unless you're solo adventuring, of course. This does make "banish" on a basic card fairly meaningless.

[Vic Wertz]

Trading cards amongst your party is already a very powerful thing. Adding the entire box to that equation is exponentially more powerful, and I don't advise it—you'll overpower your characters, and the game will become a cake walk.

[Belky]

Let me throw out a scenario then: I'm running The Poison Pill scenario and to close the General Store, I need to banish a card and I decide to banish the Wooden Shield (because who would need one of those). Now for the rest of the scenario (both before or after the discard), by either closing a location before an armor appears or by just bad luck on the part of those trying to acquire an armor, no one has an extra armor to give me. Am I supposed to start my next game with only 14 cards?

[Steve Geddes]

No, in that circumstance you replenish your shortfall from the basic cards in the box. (Top of column 2, page 19 - "If you can't construct a valid deck from the cards your group has available because you dont have enough of certain card types, choose the extra cards you need from the box, choosing only cards with the Basic trait.")

I think what Vic is suggesting as overpowered would be the ability to just trade whatever you wanted (even if there is no shortfall) with the box. That would make things considerably easier than intended.

[Belky]

That is what I had indicated in a previous comment earlier in this thread, but the conversation keep making this topic murky.

[Steve Geddes]

Yeah, when you said this:

"In summary, between scenarios, you can discard down to your card list or take cards to increase up to your card list, but not exchange cards with the stock in the box. Correct?"

You were correct. The only time you can use stock from the box is when, due to luck, banishment choices, etcetera you are unable to meet the requirements of your card list.

I think there's a little ambiguity in the situation where you are unable to meet your card list but another member of your group has a surplus card of the required type. Are you forced to take it or, if they dont trade it to you, can you then take a free choice from the box. I don't think this is clearly spelled out (the rulebook implies you are forced to take your teammates surplus cards, but I dont think makes it explicit).

FWIW, I'd take the hardline approach and require you to use your team-mates surplus items before going to the box. I think that's intended as a last resort.

[Belky]

To extend your thought, what if you are Kyra and need a spell, but all your team-mates have are Arcane spells for trade. Are you required to take one of those?

[Steve Geddes]

Hmm. Good question.

Personally, I'd say yes but I quite like the feature of having 'non-optimised' decks and having to find stuff to improve them so I prefer to err on the side of difficult in that regard.

[MarcCCTx]

The way we do it is to throw all our extra cards in the center of the table during rebuild. With three players it wasn't too helpful, but with five players it gives us a range of rebuild options. We also play with hands on the table.

[TClifford]

Belky wrote:

To extend your thought, what if you are Kyra and need a spell, but all your team-mates have are Arcane spells for trade. Are you required to take one of those?

Good question. Fortunately, I can't think of any situation where Kyra would have to banish one of her original Divine spells, so don't see this coming up.

But, on the other hand, while the rules state that you wouldn't get a new card from the box since Kyra can technically cast an Arcane spell once, I tend to follow the house rule that the card game is still based on the RPG. Therefore, Kyra should still be able to call upon her God to replenish her Divine spells. Even if it was a Basic card.

Though, maybe you want to keep that Invisibility spell as she has no real other way to Evade and encounter.

As for pulling any card from the box...well, eventually you will be able to do that after Massacre at Hook Mountain, but I think that would be too powerful up until that point.

[Mogloth]

MarcCCTx wrote:

The way we do it is to throw all our extra cards in the center of the table during rebuild. With three players it wasn't too helpful, but with five players it gives us a range of rebuild options. We also play with hands on the table.

This is the way we do it too. Since this game is fully cooperative I see no reason to not play with all my cards face up. That way I don't have to hold onto my cards the whole time.

And at the end of scenarios, we go through our decks and fill out our decks based on the character limits. Any extra go in the center if anyone else wants them.

[TClifford]

That is exactly how the rules state you should rebuild your decks.