Please note I am speaking entirely in the idea of wondering and being curious. Those who play Campaign Smashers are utter jerks and need a kick in the pants.
I am new to PF and I actually really like it. I am not a fan of some of the changes (an Invisible Rogue who jumps up and down is still really stealthy despite being loud, I really wish they would have kept Clerics closer to what they were in Beta) but I think the advantages to the streamlining makes up for the stuff that falls in the cracks; IE, being Blind makes you worse at hearing and being Deaf makes you worse at seeing things.
Anyhoo, I was curious if there were any kind of Campaign Smashers. You know, your Hulking Hurlers that deal exponential dice in damage, your Infinite Wishes from a Candle, The Kobold That Must Not be Named. Paizo seems to be made up by mostly savvy gamers so if the idea of a Campaign Smasher doesn't exist, what are the closest you can get? Obviously, Batman still exists.
Again, morbid curiosity and not desire.
Cheers.
-Azernak0
Snowcone Wish Machine.
Aka "Simulacrums can do anything".
Umm... Not that I've encountered? I mean, anyone can feel free to correct me, but then again I've never actually gone out and looked. There are certain things that I think are much stronger than your average cup of joe, but I don't think I've encountered any true "Campaign Smashers" as you've dubbed them. Seems to me that Paizo has been pretty savvy about rooting out some of the core design philosophy issues that allowed a good portion of 3.5 to spin so wildly out of control.
But now that you mention it, I'm pretty curious myself.
The Snowcone Wish Factory is the worst.
RAGELANCEPOUNCE is as bad as the Hulking Hurler thing.
Master Summoners are pretty ridiculous.
As "savvy" as the developers have been, they left quadratic magic, so basically anything with 9th level spells can break the campaign if the player both knows what they're doing and is a douche.
On the plus side, RAGELANCEPOUNCE isn't completely rules legal and requires a very specific set of circumstances to even work.
Meanwhile, at the Magic Snowcone Factory...all you need is the spell, and basic knowledge of an Efreet.
Someone want to tell me what this Magic Snowcone Factory and RAGELANCEPOUCNE thing is about?
Oh yeah, Summoners... Summoners can be pretty bad, but I still don't think they're quite in the realm of Campaign Crushers. I actually enjoy a lot of the fluff around summoners.
Half-elf Sorcerer with Paragon Surge could effectively cast any spell, but I believe that was errata'd later. I could be wrong.
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Someone want to tell me what this Magic Snowcone Factory and RAGELANCEPOUCNE thing is about?
RAGELANCEPOUNCE: Exactly what it says on the tin. Barbarian rages, rides a giant Dire Bat as a mount, and slams something with a lance from 300 feet out. Favored tactic of our good friend AM BARBARIAN. There's a bit more to it than taht, but the gist of it is "Ludicrous damage, anything dies".
Snowcone Wish Machine: A bit simpler to explain. First, you make a Simulacrum of an Efreeti.
Then you have him wish you up more Efreeti Simulacra. Rinse and repeat step 1.
Suddenly, you have an army of Efreet Simulacra to give you wishes.
Someone want to tell me what this Magic Snowcone Factory and RAGELANCEPOUCNE thing is about?RAGELANCEPOUNCE: Exactly what it says on the tin. Barbarian rages, rides a giant Dire Bat as a mount, and slams something with a lance from 300 feet out. Favored tactic of our good friend AM BARBARIAN. There's a bit more to it than taht, but the gist of it is "Ludicrous damage, anything dies".
Snowcone Wish Machine: A bit simpler to explain. First, you make a Simulacrum of an Efreeti.
Then you have him wish you up more Efreeti Simulacra. Rinse and repeat step 1.
Suddenly, you have an army of Efreet Simulacra to give you wishes.
...My god. Reminds me of the old Metamind trick with 3.5 psions. Keep dividing yourself infinitely, metaconcert, you have an infinite manifester level.
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The Snowcone Wish Machine is just a symptom of an overly liberal GM. It has no basis and could arguably only be done by a character that's very high level anyway.
Look at the DPR Olympics threads they are all about calculating potential damage output.
And ESPECIALLY check out Beastmass: A challenge to Master Min-Maxers which is all about builds that can solo Shoggoth, a Balor, a Pit Fiend, an Ancient Gold Dragon, a Solar Angel, and the Tarrasque, all with just a single round of rest.
And yes, it can be done.
And of course, our old friend Amy Alchy
...even though I can't seem to convince Cheapy to update her ;)
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The Snowcone Wish Machine is just a symptom of an overly liberal GM. It has no basis and could arguably only be done by a character that's very high level anyway.
I would argue the opposite. The real reason it's a campaign smasher is because the spell itself is quite broken.
It doesn't require a liberal interpretation to allow these things. It actually requires houseruling to prevent it if a player is enough of a dick to try it.
The Snowcone Wish Machine is just a symptom of an overly liberal GM.
Technically *every* game-breaker is just a symptom of an overly liberal GM. If you just play your player's characters for them and just have your players watch, you'll never have your campaign smashed again!
The thing with simulacrum is that it is inherently tied to the GM to determine how well you matched the target creature to determine what abilities you get. There are no set DCs. Also, the spell only imparts skill ranks and not specific knowledge. To say it does is putting things into the spell that aren't there.
Also, I wouldn't say every "game-breaker" is due to a liberal GM. I've got a level 6 kensai/bladebound magus and wizard multiclass that I can only hit with 20s with CR appropriate fights and he can hit CR appropriate enemies with like an 8 on his rolls and he does very high damage. I follow RAW pretty strictly. Granted, this includes doubling WBL for epic campaigns, which it is at a 20 point-buy.
The thing with simulacrum is that it is inherently tied to the GM to determine how well you matched the target creature to determine what abilities you get. There are no set DCs. Also, the spell only imparts skill ranks and not specific knowledge. To say it does is putting things into the spell that aren't there.
Let's look at what the spell says.
Simulacrum creates an illusory duplicate of any creature. The duplicate creature is partially real and formed from ice or snow. It appears to be the same as the original, but it has only half of the real creature's levels or HD (and the appropriate hit points, feats, skill ranks, and special abilities for a creature of that level or HD). You can't create a simulacrum of a creature whose HD or levels exceed twice your caster level. You must make a Disguise check when you cast the spell to determine how good the likeness is. A creature familiar with the original might detect the ruse with a successful Perception check (opposed by the caster's Disguise check) or a DC 20 Sense Motive check.
At all times, the simulacrum remains under your absolute command. No special telepathic link exists, so command must be exercised in some other manner. A simulacrum has no ability to become more powerful. It cannot increase its level or abilities. If reduced to 0 hit points or otherwise destroyed, it reverts to snow and melts instantly into nothingness. A complex process requiring at least 24 hours, 100 gp per hit point, and a fully equipped magical laboratory can repair damage to a simulacrum.
Forgive me if there's a developer post or FAQ entry on this that I missed, but from reading the spell, the disguise check only affects how accurate the likeness (that is, the appearance) of the simulacrum is. And there ARE DC's listed: It's an opposed Perception check, or a DC 20 Sense Motive check to detect the ruse. If you screw up the check and get a deformed-looking Efreeti, it's still capable of giving you wishes as the disguise check doesn't affect the special abilities the simulacrum has.
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Those DCs have nothing to do with how good the simulation is. It only lets you detect it's not "it." Besides:
It appears to be the same as the original, but it has only half of the real creature's levels or HD (and the appropriate hit points, feats, skill ranks, and special abilities for a creature of that level or HD).
Wishes for a 10 HD creature are arguable. Crazy but arguable. For a 5 HD creature, wish's are insane. So, I'll grant you, the check doesn't tie to how well you do. My mistake. However, if you let essentially a level 5 wizard (a class that can guaranteed get wish at level 17) have wish in your games, then you deserve what that brings. It is still incumbent upon the GM to determine what a 5 HD efreeti gets versus a 10 HD one.
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if the player both knows what they're doing and is a douche.I think this is actually pretty offensive!
Blaming the players for using options printed in the books is pretty unfair I think! It is the developers fault for not fixing or releasing errata or a faq stating what exactly you can do with them.
I never absolved the developers in this matter. However, if you know a certain option will break the game and you do it anyway, you are being a douche because the very best reason you could have to actually do it is to prove some kind of weird point to the developers.
There's no benefit to actually doing it (unless you want to ruin the game, which is kind of douchey, isn't it?).
Quadratic magic is B.S. But it's in the game. So, assuming you are playing it anyway, the options are:
1) Cut the game short (E6, E8, just stopping at 12 or whatever)--this is my preferred option if I have to play it
2) Restrain yourself to things you know won't ruin everything
3) Ruin everything
One of those choices makes you a douche.
I think a lot more things would be "fixed" if players were not against changes.
And I think you need to read more of the developers posts if you think that. The Snowcone Wish Factory would not get fixed because the developers would just look disapprovingly and say, "Come on guys, really? Don't be a douche."
I prefer a game where I can pick simulacrum and use it
You totally can! But you're a douche if you use it in a way that breaks the game (like making a wish factory).
Because the game has design flaws in it, you can follow all the rules and still be a douche, because some of the rules are bad.
So it seems it is not as horrific as it was in 3.5 but a lot of the Golden Oldies remain.
Simulacrum is basically the same thing as the Candle of Invocation; Wishing for Wishes.
Of course everything that a player does is based on what the GM allows. Polymorph and Friends are easy bans in 3.5 because of how silly they are. I have played games that have made Sneak Attack not work if the enemy is looking at you even if they are flanked. Everything is up to the DM. However, it is when you have something that is routinely banned everywhere not because of it's power but because it quite literally breaks the campaign in two, that is where the Campaign Smasher is. That is where the thought experiment comes into play.
I have read Paragon Surge and, honestly, I don't know how I feel about it. It does break the Sorcerer's and Oracle's spells known into two neat pieces but they do have to burn resources to cast it. I think my only concern is the "I have every spell, ever, prepared for no matter how obscure of an encounter we face." For out of combat stuff, I actually have no gripes about it.
Good to see Power Attack is still a complete and total monster when taken to absurdity. I do enjoy the fact that it is known as RAGELANCEPOUNCE. Jeez, Google even suggests RAGELANCEPOUNCE.
Cheers.
-Azernak0
EDIT: You can skip the whole efreeti wish thing if you want by just making pit fiends. 10 hd efreeti have wish, then 10 hd pit fiends can have wish, great!
Or you can skip it by making other things, such as Contract Devil, and just use his contract ability with no downside.
A full HD being being able to do what it does is fine. Expecting a being half that creature's HD to do everything the full HD thing can do is ridiculous. Again, it's put upon the GM to determine exactly what they do. I don't see a fair, balanced GM letting the wish thing slide. If you're playing in a purely "for fun," whimsical game, let anything fly, sure. In any setting, it's up the GM what you get.
Alright, Imma try and pull this discussion back on topic, instead of having people just arguing about whether or not the ONE thing is actually usable...
Someone want to explain what the issue with Paragon Surge is? With a cursory glance, I don't really understand what's wrong with it.
Can someone explain what Quadratic magic is? I know what Vancian magic is, are we talking along the same vein here?
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Someone want to explain what the issue with Paragon Surge is? With a cursory glance, I don't really understand what's wrong with it.
This feat and this feat with this bloodline.
Alright, Imma try and pull this discussion back on topic, instead of having people just arguing about whether or not the ONE thing is actually usable...
Someone want to explain what the issue with Paragon Surge is? With a cursory glance, I don't really understand what's wrong with it.
1.) Cast Paragon Surge
2.) Take "Expanded Arcana" as the Feat you just got.3.) ???
4.) Profit.
If you're an Oracle, take Eldritch Heritage: Arcane and then use Paragon Surge to get Improved OR Expanded Arcana, and you can have instant access to all Divine AND Arcane spells (pretty much).
Can someone explain what Quadratic magic is? I know what Vancian magic is, are we talking along the same vein here?
Paragon surge removes one of the key limitations it is to be a limited caster: a limited spell selection. You gain a lot of castings per day as, say, a sorcerer. It is almost nothing to cast that a couple times a day and have more versatility than a wizard. Granted, you don't get wizard schools which really help certain builds shine, but that's how it plays out. With witches you gain any hex you want. The only requirement with it is that you have to be a half-elf given its targeting specification.
Rynjin, you can't use paragon surge's feats as prereqs to other feats. I don't know what Improved thing you're looking at getting but I think that's what you were trying to do.
No, I mean taking Eldritch Heritage as a Feat and then using Paragon Surge to get Improved Eldritch Heritage.
Ah cool cool
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I'd like you to quote the part where MPL said "Why change the rules? You are just a jerk for picking that option!"
While we're at it, you do realize MPL isn't a developer for this game, right?
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Hmmm, I asked you not be so insulting, so you decided to be moreso!
Guess I'm a douche ;)
I guess picking options in the game means you are a douche.
Only when those game options are known to be broken and douchey.
Also, I enjoyed you absolving the developers of responsibility by stating that they can just say "Why change the rules? You are just a jerk for picking that option!"
No absolution is given. I said that is what they would say, I never said it was good that they'd say it.
I am not absolving errors, simply being realistic about what will be fixed. I think large amounts of the game are problematic. They do not care. It is unrealistic of me to expect them to change, and it is ridiculous of me to specifically play using problematic options in problematic ways and ruin other people's time just because they have not/will not change those problematic things.
Usually, I prefer my developers to take responsibility for the balance in their games
And I'd prefer to be a millionaire. They are not going to fix Simulacrum just because you keep creating wish factories in your home game and ruining the fun of everyone else in your group. They are aware of the Snowcone Wish Factory--they have made no changes. This is fact, not forgiveness.
You are aware of the Snowcone Wish Factory and know it is problematic. Hey, maybe don't do it! If you know about it, know it is problematic, and do it anyway, guess who now also becomes a problem?
That's... absurd o-O I mean, yeah, I can see how it works, and yeah, that's definitely cheesy. Awesome, but suuuuuper cheesy. Barring that particular use though, I feel like that's a pretty awesome spell, wish I'd heard of it back when I was playing my half-elf... Wonder if I could get a GM to let me cast Permanency on that... It'd be interesting. ANYWAY.
This whole thing about... mpl and Cwheezy. I'm afraid I'm going to side with mpl on this one, because this is how it usually goes with my gaming groups. Thankfully, I tend to be one of the most knowledgeable of the group when it comes to cheese, so I can usually see it coming before it happens and prevent it. And I've also managed to break most of my players of their cheesy ways by throwing the cheese back in their faces in the form of a cheese-eating enemy, or an enemy who uses the exact same cheese. They've mostly figured out that it's more fun for everyone if they just avoid the cheese, becuase they never get away with it more than once, and it usually wasn't enough to justify all the time and effort they had to do setting it up. Like the one gunslinger in my one game, who figured out that he could roll 8 attacks around by level 4 or so using a series of feats and a particular gun, at which point I told him that yes, he made all 8 attacks, but the gun exploded, he took damage equal to a quarter of all his attacks from the force of it, and he never managed to pull it off again, because no gun was ever "quite good enough" for him to manage it.
The point is, if you go into a game KNOWING that something is cheesy, or way unbalanced, or just outright overpowered, and you use it for the sole purpose OF IT BEING THAT WAY, then I agree with mpl... you're kind of ruining everything, for no reason other than you can. And if your only purpose in playing the game is to ruin it, I have to question your motives.
A full HD being being able to do what it does is fine. Expecting a being half that creature's HD to do everything the full HD thing can do is ridiculous. Again, it's put upon the GM to determine exactly what they do. I don't see a fair, balanced GM letting the wish thing slide. If you're playing in a purely "for fun," whimsical game, let anything fly, sure. In any setting, it's up the GM what you get.EDIT: You can skip the whole efreeti wish thing if you want by just making pit fiends. 10 hd efreeti have wish, then 10 hd pit fiends can have wish, great!
Or you can skip it by making other things, such as Contract Devil, and just use his contract ability with no downside.
Actually there are rules for this, so its not really up to the GM what abilities a Simulacrum has anymore then whether or not you can do anything else. When decreasing a monsters hit die, most special abilities are left untouched, (the same is true when gaining them) at least when the rules are being used.
As to campaign smashers, the easy answer is anything with access to 9th level casting, or put even simpler magic in general.
FlySkyHigh: I disagree that using Paragon Surge exactly as intended is "cheesy". Overpowered? Certainly. But Cheesy? There are no ambiguities or attempts to twist the rules to achieve to the effect. And while the person who wrote it may not have considered every possible feat that could be selected, I highly doubt they completely ignored the power that a flexible feat could provide.
FlySkyHigh: I disagree that using Paragon Surge exactly as intended is "cheesy". Overpowered? Certainly. But Cheesy? There are no ambiguities or attempts to twist the rules to achieve to the effect. And while the person who wrote it may not have considered every possible feat that could be selected, I highly doubt they completely ignored the power that a flexible feat could provide.
Flexible feats always tend to be pretty potent, moreso when there's no limit aside from "must meet prereqs" on what feat you can pick. Perhaps the way we interpret 'Cheesy' is different, but from my perspective paragon surge was not intended to make spontaneous casters able to cast all spells in the game on a whim. My definition of cheese revolves around abusing something outside of it's intended purpose. A lot of things I consider "cheesy" really don't bend the rules at all, they just take them literally and apply them in 'cheesy' ways.
Ex: in 3.5, before it was errata'd to remove this exploit, Psionics had a class called Metamind. You could use it's capstone ability to have Infinite Power Points for 1 minute. Now, you use temporal acceleration, and start pumping augments as much as you can. Use fission, there are now two of you, with less power points (which doesnt matter, because infinite) but with the same manifester level. Both of you use another temporal acceleration. Time has not actually moved forward, as you're still inside the first round. You and your clone continue to repeat with your infinite power points until you have your own personal army of yourself, each with your high manifester level. Then, you metaconcert using your original body as the primary focus, and gain a theoretically infinite manifester level for the next 9 rounds of actual time when you let temporal acceleration fade. You can proceed to obliterate the universe by taking any power that gives a + to damage augment and augment it infinitely up to your infinite manifester level with your infinite power points. This to me is completely inside the rules, without any twisting or abuse of ambiguities, but in reality is extremely cheesy, at least in my book.
137ben: Is it really? I thought they errata'd that? Summoned vrocks here I come.
FlySkyHigh: I disagree that using Paragon Surge exactly as intended is "cheesy". Overpowered? Certainly. But Cheesy? There are no ambiguities or attempts to twist the rules to achieve to the effect. And while the person who wrote it may not have considered every possible feat that could be selected, I highly doubt they completely ignored the power that a flexible feat could provide.
Flexible feats always tend to be pretty potent, moreso when there's no limit aside from "must meet prereqs" on what feat you can pick. Perhaps the way we interpret 'Cheesy' is different, but from my perspective paragon surge was not intended to make spontaneous casters able to cast all spells in the game on a whim. My definition of cheese revolves around abusing something outside of it's intended purpose. A lot of things I consider "cheesy" really don't bend the rules at all, they just take them literally and apply them in 'cheesy' ways.
Ex: in 3.5, before it was errata'd to remove this exploit, Psionics had a class called Metamind. You could use it's capstone ability to have Infinite Power Points for 1 minute. Now, you use temporal acceleration, and start pumping augments as much as you can. Use fission, there are now two of you, with less power points (which doesnt matter, because infinite) but with the same manifester level. Both of you use another temporal acceleration. Time has not actually moved forward, as you're still inside the first round. You and your clone continue to repeat with your infinite power points until you have your own personal army of yourself, each with your high manifester level. Then, you metaconcert using your original body as the primary focus, and gain a theoretically infinite manifester level for the next 9 rounds of actual time when you let temporal acceleration fade. You can proceed to obliterate the universe by taking any power that gives a + to damage augment and augment it infinitely up to your infinite manifester level with your infinite power points. This to...
As someone who does a lot with psionics, I can assure you that that trick doesn't work. Mostly because Fission has a hard limitation on duplicates namely:
"You can have only one fissioned duplicate in existence at one time; your duplicate cannot use this power."
(Body Outside Body can lead to similar~ish shenanigans since they are only forbidden from casting spells not manifesting powers, though this requires some doing to get going.)
There actually is a trick with the metamind using the Cpsi power Temporal Reiteration that effectively gives them all day infinite PP (though at action cost), but considered how gimped a character that takes the metamind prc is this is actually much less a problem then it sounds (seriously taking metamind is like being a dancer and deciding sawing your leg off would improve your routine). Seriously, friends don't let friends take levels in metamind.
By "Campaign smasher", I had something else completely in mind. Someone who, rather than mechanically advantages themselves, sets out to break the expectations of a campaign. For example...
And yes, I have definitely played with someone who would do something like that.
By "Campaign smasher", I had something else completely in mind. Someone who, rather than mechanically advantages themselves, sets out to break the expectations of a campaign. For example...
** spoiler omitted **
And yes, I have definitely played with someone who would do something like that.
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Ultimately, everything is up to the GM, despite many contemporary players' attempt to emasculate the role. He or she can override any rule at will to maintain game balance, advance story, throw out stinky cheese and call out supercilious little snots on their nose-picking munchkinism. In fact, it's his/her duty and responsibility to do just that. The fact that many of them don't have the steel to stomach the often inevitable tantrums and set players firmly back in place just means that cheese manufacture is at an all-time high.The fact that little Johnny pores over the rulebooks looking for a combination never meant to work in that fashion should at best garner from an amused DM, "Aw, isn't that clever? ... but you're playing with adults now.
"No."
Wow jaelith that is quite the post.
Do you allow your players to breathe without asking?
"Dear gm sir, may I use power attack today"
Obviously, both of these need to be kept in perspective.
The GM can do pretty much anything they want on a cosmic level, including rewriting rules on the fly if they feel it's necessary.
The question isn't whether they can. They can. The question is whether they should.
The answer, usually, is "if it's in the best interests of the group to do so".
Some groups specifically want to play strict RAW even to the point of not allowing the GM to overrule the rulebook. That's fine, as long as they also realize they're removing the primary method of game balance in the process - one of the rules is that you have a GM that can change the rules, after all, and it's there for a reason. The rules aren't written to be perfectly balanced of themselves, it's unlikely they ever will be. But, that said, it's a groups right to play that way if they want to.
Other groups want the GM to do that balancing. My players would kill me if I allowed someone to do something that ruined the game for them. Looking at some of the posts here, I think myself lucky in that they're not the types to purposely try anything gamebreaking in the first place, but I guess if we had a new member it might come into play that I'd have to remind them that quoting the rulebook in an argument with the GM is a fast way to find themselves replaced next week.
Doing this in moderation is important. If you're overruling every other action, then something's probably gone very wrong. If it's once every couple of games because someone is trying something and you feel the rulebook has got it wrong, that's about an acceptable level for many groups. End of the day though, it's the group that decides whether they want you back as GM, so working to their specific needs is what really matters if you want to keep GMing for them.
It only takes one wad to ruin the game for everybody else. I've played in games where secretly implanting a bomb (Rifts, btw) in the head of another player, preset to detonate if the player tries to kill any of the rest of us.
When i passed that note to the gm he gave me an approving nod.
Thankfully those days are long over. The people i play with now prioritize the group experience over personal glory. They can still have personal glory, but they don't seek it at the expense of the game.
This campaign smasher thing is interesting, but i haven't seen much here to cause alarm.
As someone who does a lot with psionics, I can assure you that that trick doesn't work. Mostly because Fission has a hard limitation on duplicates namely:
"You can have only one fissioned duplicate in existence at one time; your duplicate cannot use this power."
(Body Outside Body can lead to similar~ish shenanigans since they are only forbidden from casting spells not manifesting powers, though this requires some doing to get going.)
There actually is a trick with the metamind using the Cpsi power Temporal Reiteration that effectively gives them all day infinite PP (though at action cost), but considered how gimped a character that takes the metamind prc is this is actually much less a problem then it sounds (seriously taking metamind is like being a dancer and deciding sawing your leg off would improve your routine). Seriously, friends don't let friends take levels in metamind.
-Double checks the power.-
...I'VE BEEN DUPED. I need to apologize to a lot of people. I've been talking about that exploit for years, only now to be corrected.
But for the sake of argument, say that limitation didn't exist, and that my previously mentioned (now debunked) exploit worked as such. By the letter of the rule, you aren't really doing anything wrong. By the nature of what you're doing, you're setting up to break the game. I feel that that type of thing is fairly cheesy.
But yes, point to you good sir, I have not been paying close enough attention.
et al: As far as the GM/player argument goes, it ultimately boils down to the GM, even if you don't like the call. I'm not saying I haven't argued hotly with several (mainly a few in particular) gm's over what I felt to be questionable decisions, and usually when what they were doing totally circumvented the rules, or essentially neutered my character, but at the same time there's always the first rule: The GM is always right. I have in the past been forced to retire characters because the GM for one reason or another did not like me or my character, and would actively seek to block it from working.
That's not to say they were in the right to do so, but my options were either a) work with the handicap or b) not play. I chose A and built something more to what I knew my GM would "think" was acceptable. I've actually found some of my more creative characters came from just such limitations.
I bolded the relevant part of the quote that you apparently missed. Yes, Anzyr said that everything is ultimately up to the GM. He also said that the effects of simulacron aren't any more 'up to the GM' than virtually everything else in the game.Actually there are rules for this, so it's not really up to the GM what abilities a Simulacrum has anymore then whether or not you can do anything else.[Arches a brow.].
Yes, it really is "up to the GM."
Ultimately, everything is up to the GM, despite many contemporary players' attempt to emasculate the role.
That's not how I read that. From what I can discern, he's strongly implying, if not quite directly stating, that the RAW takes priority over the GM. I think that's precisely what "it's not really up to the GM" means.
Perhaps I'm misreading it, but I don't think so.
I think you might be misreading it. I thought the same way at first, but after going back over his post, I do feel like what he was essentially trying to say is that there are in fact rules in place already, and the GM can change them, but by the same nature can change anything, including whether or not you can cast that spell in the first place. I think his primary point was simply that the Snowcone Wishing Machine works through regular rules, but that a GM can change it (and by extension anything else) if they want/need to.
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I bolded the relevant part of the quote that you apparently missed. Yes, Anzyr said that everything is ultimately up to the GM. He also said that the effects of simulacron aren't any more 'up to the GM' than virtually everything else in the game.Actually there are rules for this, so it's not really up to the GM what abilities a Simulacrum has anymore then whether or not you can do anything else.[Arches a brow.].
Yes, it really is "up to the GM."
Ultimately, everything is up to the GM, despite many contemporary players' attempt to emasculate the role.
That's not how I read that. From what I can discern, he's strongly implying, if not quite directly stating, that the RAW takes priority over the GM. I think that's precisely what "it's not really up to the GM" means.
Perhaps I'm misreading it, but I don't think so.
That seems to be precisely what he is arguing, and that makes it our solemn duty as Sane People and Good Forumgoers to stop feeding the troll and get this thread away from an ethical argument about the difference between "can" and "should" and back to finding ways to break the hell out of our favorite system.