# stealth summoner
Very early impression, naturally.
I like the serpentine form thing, very simple and elegant.
This guy can use his eidolon to flank with, giving both himself and the eidolon sneak attacks. In addition, eidolons potentially have many attacks, each of which can be a sneak attack. Thus master & servant together can use the sneak attack bonus many times in a round. This is very powerful. Maybe only the summoner himself should get sneak attack? Or maybe it should trigger only on no-Dex to AC, not flanking? That emphasizes the stealth aspect. Or perhaps the eidolon has to spend evolutions to gain sneak attack, with an upper limit equal to its master's sneak attack.
From the Advanced Class Guide playtest I got the impression that rogue talents are supposed to be very rogue-specific. I feel that in the minds of the Pazio designers, these talents are better than they actually are in play. Still, I am reluctant to give the stealth summoner rogue talents. Perhaps if we took away summoner spellcasting altogether - but that would be unbalanced in the other direction. This is a really tricky situation, perhaps its best to just consider the Pazio designers wrong and treat the talents as class abilities in general.
As long as the rogue remains as weak as it is, all MCAs building of rogue are going to have trouble in not surpassing the rogue. This came up several times in the MCA playtest feedback.
#Stealth Summoner
Maybe the Eidolon could only get SA from its target being flat-footed. Of course, a 2-point evolution to add Sneak Attack up to an upper limit of the master's would be a simpler solution, I think.
I feel like the Rogue talents themselves were originally meant to 'compensate' the Rogue's lack of spellcasting - of course, it wasn't very successful. Those RTs are there mostly for flavor.
And to your last point, this is a Summoner MCA - it only needs to keep from passing the Summoner, a T2 class.
We could just remove spellcasting outside of a few SLAs (e.g. Blur).
#stealth summoner
Just be careful, too much sneak attack is a dangerous thing to add, maybe make the evolution cost more than 2? Like a five point evolution?
I mean even paizo weighed in with carnivalist rogue, the S.A. damage was cut in half, but both could deal it
Having sneak attack be a flat be a flat cost would be the same as penalizing the stealthy eidolon that many points. It would hurt mostly at low level. Giving it an evolution cost (say 1 evolution per dice) would spread the cost over levels. Of course, we have to set it at some reasonable rate slightly more favorable than other evolutions, or it won't be taken.
Another option is to limit the eidolon to one sneak attack/round.
We both have a slightly different approach and idea of balanced swaps, which is OK. I think we will have to agree to disagree on certain aspects.
Been thinking about what you meant by this and think I've figured it out. I want the class features of MCAs to be competitive with those of normal classes. I will cut out entire features to make room for that. You prefer to dilute the abilities of each class; keep most of the abilities of both classes, but make them weaker.
For example, making a cleric/wizard MCA, I would cut out one domain and channel energy entirely, replacing those with 1-2 fully-fledged wizard class features. You'd reduce channel energy to 2/3, remove one domain and reduce the other, while adding reduced versions of most wizard abilities. My cleric/wizard would have a few abilities from each class, yours would have most of the abilities, but reduced in potency. I exaggerate a bit for effect, but these are the ways I feel we work.
Both ways work. Yours make MCAs that look more like a 1E/2E or even 3E style multiclass, mine is more of a new class that is a mix of the old ones.
# stealth summoner
...This is a really tricky situation, perhaps its best to just consider the Pazio designers wrong and treat the talents as class abilities in general.
Yes. Its a class fetue, open to swaps as usual. Just because the ACG is coming, doesn't mean I (or the MCP) will change our approach to creting these, unless its warranted.
Here's my thoughts on the MCA. This is only a minor raigue adaptation, at least to the Summoner himself, the big adaptation should be the eidolon (Thus a "Stealth" Eidolon).
1) Swap out Summon monster and Gate.
2) Go diminished spellcasting.
3) Swap in sneak attack at 1/7/13/19, for a max of +4d6 (for diminished spellcating).
4) Swap in rogue talents at 3/9/15 (for summon monster and gate), no Advanced Talent access.
5) Make the stat changes: essentially a blurp (which I have written up already) that says you get the Saves Fort (bad), Ref/Will (good), and the ability scores oft he serpentine form, regardless of what for you actually choose.
6) Possibly lower the evolution points (by 2 overall, maybe?), which will depend on how it all works out.
7) Restrict certain evolutions from being chosen, especially the Large and Huge evolutions. Likely put a restriction on the Basic, Minor, Major, and Ultimate Magic evolutions, limiting choices to certain illusion spells (especially invisibility, vanish, blur, displcement). I see the eidolon sort of like the Steatlh Suits worn by Data and others in Star Trek Insurrection. Able to really be stealthy, but this will need to be balanced with points, etc. Things that make the summoner less potent and the eidlon more versatile.
8) Create new evlutions designed for the eidolon (point costs will have to be determined). I've done a lot of this sort of thing with various other MCAs, such as the Clockwork Mage and the Siege Marshal. These Evos will include things such as Sneak Attack (1d6 increment per point cost, whether it's 1, 2 or 3 per increment, up to the Stealth Summoners max 4d6), Rogue Talents (again point costs for each rogue talent, likely 2 per, up to a total of 3 talents like the summoner), maybe an increased speed one, and the adjustments to the "Magic" evolutions mentioned above. I like Starfox's idea of limiting the number of sneak attacks per round too.
The eidolon already gets evasion and imp evasion with its level advacnement. But I think we should also include as evos the rogue's Uncanny Dodge and Impr Uncanny Dodge, obviously one as the prereq to gain the other. I'm thinking probably a 2 point (UD) and 4 point (ImpUD) cost, as these will greatly enhance the eidolon. But agaiin, we can work those out with the balance.
Been thinking about what you meant buy this and think I've figured it out. I want the class features of MCAs to be competitive with those of normal classes. I will cut out entire features to make room for that. You prefer to dilute the abilities of each class; keep most of the abilities of both classes, but make them weaker.
For example, making a cleric/wizard MCA, I would cut out one domain and channel energy entirely, replacing those with 1-2 fully-fledged wizard class features. You'd reduce channel energy to 2/3, remove one domain and reduce the other, while adding reduced versions of most wizard abilities. My cleric/wizard would have a few abilities from each class, yours would have most of the abilities, but reduced in potency. I exaggerate a bit for effect, but these are the ways I feel we work.
Both ways work. Yours make MCAs that look more like a 1E/2E or even 3E style multiclass, mine is more of a new class that is a mix of the old ones.
YES! That is exactly how our approaches differ, and you're right, neither are right or wrong. My approach has always been based on the idead of gestalt 1E/2E multiclassing, that's the WHOLE basis of the Multiclass Archetypes and how they developed and evolved.
#Stealth Summoner
@Elghinn: We seem to be going in different directions with this. I wanted the Stealth Summoner to essentially be a Rogue with Eidolon support.
I think having such a reduced number of Sneak Attack dice AND an Evolution to give those to the Eidolon is going a bit too far in diluting the abilities.
Instead of Diminished Spellcasting, we could allow the Summoner to choose Rogue-Style SLAs, say one every two levels, up to 4th level spells. Each of them castable (4-Spell Level, up to a max of twice per day) times per day.
the MCA should get more RTs for losing the Summon Monster line, since he is losing a huge boon to flanking in return for his rogue talents. Actually, that gives me an idea for a Rogue/Summoner MCA... Add it to the queue.
And reducing the number of evolutions the Eidolon gets - especially for a Summoner-based MCA - is going a bit too far in my opinion.
your suggested Uncanny Dodge and Imp. Uncanny Dodge's point costs are too high considering the actual value of the abilities, especially since the eidolon gets fewer hit dice than a PC anyways.
I do like the limits on the Eidolon Magic line, but if players want to make their stealthy Eidolon Huge, they should be able to do it - the fact that it isn't a good idea should keep most from doing it.
@Secondary Discussion: I tend to go Starfox's way when it comes to building these things.
#Stealth Summoner
@Elghinn: We seem to be going in different directions with this. I wanted the Stealth Summoner to essentially be a Rogue with Eidolon support.
Then that's what I need to know. If you are really wanting a stealthy summoner vs. a "Stealth" Eidolon, then I think a reduction to paladin spellcasting for the summoner may be in order to really give it a good amount of rogue with summoner spell support.
#Stealth Summoner
I like the reduction to paladin spellcasting, since beyond 4th level spells, the Summoner starts to get world-changing Wizard toys.
Honestly, I kind of want both - though the 'stealthy summoner' should recieve more focus, since the Eidolon by nature is easy to change.
Yes, we should be able to do both, as the reduction to paladin summoning will alos allow some adjustments to the eidolon, like I've suggested. If you/we (emphasis on you) don't want to go the sneak attack and rogue talent route with the eidolon, that's fine. Now, a limit of +1d6 in conjunction with it's multiattack would balance fine, as such attacks would need to be on the same target anyways. Ultimately, that could give it a total of +7d6 sneak attack with a max of 7 natural attacks. Could also limit it to only 1/2 its max attacks can be sneaks. Either way, we have lots of maneuvering room to build tis thing with paladin spellcasting.
Yes, we should be able to do both, as the reduction to paladin summoning will alos allow some adjustments to the eidolon, like I've suggested. If you/we (emphasis on you) don't want to go the sneak attack and rogue talent route with the eidolon, that's fine. Now, a limit of +1d6 in conjunction with it's multiattack would balance fine, as such attacks would need to be on the same target anyways. Ultimately, that could give it a total of +7d6 sneak attack with a max of 7 natural attacks. Could also limit it to only 1/2 its max attacks can be sneaks. Either way, we have lots of maneuvering room to build tis thing with paladin spellcasting.
So it would be one extra point cost per natural attack to get the sneak attack? or would it be a flat bonus?
I feel it should be able to take an evolution to get the same number of SAs as the Summoner if it uses a manufactured weapon (this is common later on).
Maybe the Eidolon could get a new 2-point evolution to take a Rogue Talent that is not an Advanced Talent. That way it could get Weapon Finesse, Poison Use, Etc.
I'll have to look at how some of the other evolutions work. Some evolutions grant "X" to a single natural attack (not all accross the board), so I think we'd need to go that route.
Maybe this.
1 point evoution = Sneak Attack: +1d6 to a single natural attack (choose one), can be taken multiple times, each time applies to a different natural attack.
2 point evolution = Improved Sneak Attack: Increase your sneak attack by +2d6 (must be at least 6th) can choose 3 time, once at 6th, 12th, and 18th?
This way, there is a way to add sneak attack to individual attacks, but also to increase the damage. eidolons are pretty good combatants as is, and it should be a cost to get sneak attack with individual natural attacks, and increase the damage.
For manufactured weapons, I think taking Sneak Attack ocne will grant it to all manufactured weapons, then there is only the extra cost of increasing the damage to manufactured weapons.
Can you clarify the 2 point evolution? Is it an extra die added to SA damage for all natural attacks?
I think there should just be a clause in the 1 point evolution: "If you spend an additional (2?) point(s), this Sneak Attack damage applies to attacks with manufactured weapons, stacking each time you select this upgrade."
So if the eidolon has access to 3 natural attacks, it can spend 3 or 6 extra points beyond the original sneak attack evolution to add this sneak attack damage to attacks with manufactured weapons.
Of course, we would then have to balance this with the good possibility that the Eidolon uses both manufactured weapons and natural attacks...
We could instead treat manufactured weapons as a separate natural attack, but make it so that the eidolon can stack SA damage dice on manufactured weapon attacks, up to a maximum of the Stealth Summoner's Sneak Attack dice (minimum 1). Each time the Eidolon adds one die to his manufactured weapon attacks, he may add a sneak attack die to one less natural attack. So at level 1, the Eidolon would use a Dagger(for example). The Summoner adds Sneak Attack damage to the Eidolon's attack with the dagger, and can now only add a die of sneak attack to two of the Eidolon's natural attacks.
Looking at some of the other evolutions I thik we would go like this:
1-Poitn Evolutions
Sneak Attack: Make a sneak attack with natural attacks or manufactured weapons, dealing +1d6 damage. Each time its chocen, it applies either to a new natural attack, or to all manufactured weapons.
Improved Sneak Damage: Increses sneak attack damage by +1d6. Can be taken up to a total of 4d6 or 5d6?
Rogue Talent: Gain 1 rogue talent.
gotta go!
#STEALTH SUMMONER
How's this for a good starting point? Any suggestions for a different name?
Primary: Summoner.
Secondary: Rogue.
Alignment: Any.
Hit Dice: d8.
Bonus Skills and Ranks: The stealth summoner selects six rogue skills to add to his class skills in addition to the normal summoner class skills, on eof which must be Stealth. The stealth summoner gains a number of ranks at each level equal to 4 + Int modifier.
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: The stealth summoner is proficient with all simple weapons, plus the hand crossbow, rapier, sap, shortbow, and short sword. He is also proficient with light armor. A stealth summoner can cast arcane spells while wearing light armor without incurring the normal arcane spell failure chance. Like any other arcane spellcaster, a stealth summoner wearing medium or heavy armor, or using a shield, incurs a chance of arcane spell failure if the spell in question has a somatic component. A multiclass stealth summoner still incurs the normal arcane spell failure chance for arcane spells received from other classes.
Sneak Attack (Ex): At 1st level, a stealth summoner gains the rogue’s sneak attack ability, except that the stealth summoner’s extra damage is equal to 1d6 at 1st level, plus and additional 1d6 at 3rd, 7th, 9th, 13th, 15th, and 19th level, up to a maximum of 7d6.
Stealth Eidolon: This is exactly like the summoner ability of the same name, except for the changes described in the Stealth Eidolon description below.
Rogue Talents: At 3rd level, a stealth summoner gains the rogue talent ability, except that the stealth summoner gains a rogue talent at 3rd level and every four levels thereafter. This ability replaces the summon monster ability.
Spellcasting: Beginning at 4th level, a stealth summoner gains the ability to cast a small number of arcane spells, which are drawn from the summoner spell list. He also adds the following spells to that list at the indicated levels: 1st–blend, disguise self, shadow weapon, silent image, vanish; 2nd–disguise other, minor image, mirror image; 3rd–illusionary wall, major image, shadow step; 4th–mislead, persistent image. A stealth summoner can cast any spell he knows without preparing his spells in advance.
To learn or a spell, a stealth summoner must have a Charisma score equal to at least 10 + the spell level. The Difficulty Class for a saving throw against a stealth summoner's spell is 10 + the spell level + the stealth summoner's Charisma modifier.
Like other spellcasters, a stealth summoner can cast only a certain number of spells of each spell level per day. His base daily spell allotment is given on Table: Stealth Summoner. In addition, he receives bonus spells per day if he has a high Charisma score. When Table: Stealth Summoner indicates that the stealth summoner gets 0 spells per day of a given spell level, he gains only the bonus spells he would be entitled to based on his Charisma score for that spell level.
Upon reaching 7th level, and at every third stealth summoner level after that (10th, 13th, and so on), a stealth summoner can choose to learn a new spell in place of one he already knows. In effect, the stealth summoner “loses” the old spell in exchange for the new one. The new spell’s level must be the same as that of the spell being exchanged, and it must be at least one level lower than the highest-level stealth summoner spell the bard can cast. A stealth summoner may swap only a single spell at any given level, and must choose whether or not to swap the spell at the same time that he gains new spells known for the level.
A stealth summoner need not prepare his spells in advance. He can cast any spell he knows at any time, assuming he has not yet used up his allotment of spells per day for the spell’s level. A stealth summoner must rest for 8 hours to regain his daily allotment of spells. Through 3rd level, a stealth summoner has no caster level. At 4th level and higher, his caster level is equal to his stealth summoner level –3.
Trap Sense (Ex): At 5th level, a stealth summoner gains an intuitive sense that alerts him to danger from traps, giving him a +1 bonus on Reflex saves made to avoid traps and a +1 dodge bonus to AC against attacks made by traps. These bonuses rise to +2 when the stealth summoner reaches 11th level, and to +3 when she reaches 17th level. Trap sense bonuses gained from multiple classes stack.
Advanced Talents: At 10th level, the stealth summoner can choose advanced rogue talents whenever he could choose a rogue talent, or when he selects the Extra Rogue Talent feat. The stealth summoner adds the following rogue abilities to the list of advanced talents he may select: Evasion, Uncanny Dodge, and Improved Uncanny Dodge. A stealth summoner must select uncanny dodge before selecting improved uncanny dodge. In the case of the Improved Evasion talent, the stealth summoner must have evasion to select it.
Table: Stealth Summoner
Base
Class Attack Fort Ref Will Spells per Day
Level Bonus Save Save Save Special 1st 2nd 3rd 4th
1st +0 +0 +2 +2 Cantrips, life link, sneak attack +1d6, stealth eidolon — — — —
2nd +1 +0 +3 +3 Bond senses, rogue talent — — — —
3rd +2 +1 +3 +3 Sneak attack +2d6 — — — —
4th +3 +1 +4 +4 Shield ally 0 — — —
5th +3 +1 +4 +4 Trap sense +1 1 — — —
6th +4 +2 +5 +5 Maker’s call, rogue talent 1 — — —
7th +5 +2 +5 +5 Sneak attack +3d6 1 0 — —
8th +6/+1 +2 +6 +6 Transposition 1 1 — —
9th +6/+1 +3 +6 +6 Sneak attack +4d6 2 1 — —
10th +7/+2 +3 +7 +7 Advanced talents, rogue talent 2 1 0 —
11th +8/+3 +3 +7 +7 Trap sense +2 2 1 1 —
12th +9/+4 +4 +8 +8 Greater shield ally 2 2 1 —
13th +9/+4 +4 +8 +8 Sneak attack +5d6 3 2 1 0
14th +10/+5 +4 +9 +9 Rogue talent 3 2 1 1
15th +11/+6/+1 +5 +9 +9 Sneak attack +6d6 3 2 2 1
16th +12/+7/+2 +5 +10 +10 Merge forms 3 3 2 1
17th +12/+7/+2 +5 +10 +10 Trap sense +3 4 3 2 1
18th +13/+8/+3 +6 +11 +11 Rogue talent 4 3 2 2
19th +14/+9/+4 +6 +11 +11 Sneak attack +7d6 4 3 3 2
20th +15/+10/+5 +6 +12 +12 Twin eidolon 4 4 3 3
Stealth eidolons are like any other eidolon, but have an inclination towards stealth, sneak attacks, and roguish expertise. As such, it gains access to a number of new evolutions that are unique to its role and skill set. Stealth eidolons have the same statistics as shown on the Eidolon Base Statistics table (see Advanced Player’s Guide). These base statistics can be modified by the base form and evolution pool as normal.
STEALTH EIDOLON ABILITIES
A stealth eidolon’s abilities are determined by the stealth summoner’s level and by the choices made using its evolution pool. Table: Eidolon Base Statistics determines many of the base statistics of the stealth eidolon. Each eidolon possesses a base form that modifies these base statistics. A stealth eidolon’s qualities are similar to those described in the Eidolons description block of the Advanced Player’s Guide (see p. 58), except with the following changes.
Saves: The eidolon always has the following saving throws, regardless of its chosen base form: Fort (bad), Ref (good), Will (good).
Ability Scores: The stealth eidolon has the following ability scores, regardless of its chosen base from: Str 12, Dex 16 Con 13, Int 7, Wis 10, Cha 11. A stealth eidolon also gains the following abilities.
EVOLUTIONS
Like a summoner’s eidolon, a stealth eidolon receives a number of evolution points that can be spent to give the stealth eidolon new abilities, powers, and other evolutions. A stealth eidolon may select any evolution listed in the Advanced Player’s Guide or Ultimate Magic. Due to the stealth eidolon’s nature, the following evolutions have no effect and cannot be added to the stealth eidolon: channel resistance, gills, hooves, mount, large, huge, undead appearance, and unnatural aura.
The following list includes new evolutions specific to the Stealth Summoner multiclass archetype or rule changes to existing ones.
1-Point Evolutions
The following evolutions cost 1 point from the stealth eidolon’s evolution pool.
Improved Speed (Ex): One of the stealth eidolon’s movement modes increases by +10 ft. This evolution can be selected more than once. Its effects do stack. It can only be applied once to the stealth eidolon’s speed mode, plus 1 additional time for every 6 levels the stealth mage possesses.
Increased Precision Damage (Ex): The stealth eidolon’s sneak attack damage increases its damage by 1d6. This evolution can be selected every four levels that the stealth summoner possesses, to a maximum of 5d6 at 17th level.
Rogue Talent (Ex): The stealth eidolon can choose one rogue talent, using its Hit Dice as its rogue level. This evolution can be selected every five levels that the stealth summoner possesses.
Sneak Attack (Ex): The stealth eidolon gains the rogue’s sneak attack ability. Select either all manufactured weapons or one natural attack form. If a stealth eidolon can catch an opponent when he is unable to defend himself effectively from its attack, it can deal 1d6 points of precision damage against the opponent. This evolution can be selected more than once. Its effects do not stack. Each time a stealth eidolon selects this evolution it applies either to a different natural attack (or to all manufactured weapons). A stealth eidolon can only make a number of sneak attacks each round equal to one half its maximum number of natural attacks. This evolution otherwise functions as the rogue’s sneak attack ability.
2-Point Evolutions
The following evolutions cost 2 points from the stealth eidolon’s evolution pool.
Minor Magic (Sp): The stealth eidolon adds blur to the list of spells it can choose from.
Uncanny Dodge (Ex): The stealth eidolon gain the rogue’s uncanny dodge ability. The stealth eidolon must be at least 6th level to select this evolution.
3-Point Evolutions
The following evolutions cost 3 points from the stealth eidolon’s evolution pool.
Improved Uncanny Dodge (Ex): The stealth eidolon gain the rogue’s improved uncanny dodge ability. The stealth eidolon must have the uncanny dodge evolution and be at least 10th level to select this evolution.
4-Point Evolutions
The following evolutions cost 4 points from the stealth eidolon’s evolution pool.
Ultimate Magic (Sp): The stealth eidolon adds displacement to the list of spells it can choose from.
Occult Magister?.... Is it just me or would a class archetype like this benefit from being more tied to the plane of shadow or something? Some kind of ability that emulates that more would be cool.
Shadow Master
Night Caller
Phantasm Lord... reaching a bit.
Oculus Rift? ;p
#Stealth Summoner
I don't know, the name is kind of boring, but it rolls off the tongue so well...
Also, Elghinn, I really think we should allow at least the Large and Mount evolutions.
If we go with Stealth Summoner (I really don't hate it, just wanted to see if anyone had something better), then I think we'll just call the "stealth eidolon" an "eidolon" instead, to avoid redundancy of saying "stealth" for everything, as, it's really only some minor changes, not overhauls like other MCAs.
@Orelius
We can do that. I always find it easier to pare things down than building things up.
Occult Magister?.... Is it just me or would a class archetype like this benefit from being more tied to the plane of shadow or something? Some kind of ability that emulates that more would be cool.
The is already the Shadow Fade (Rog/Sum) that has a tie to shadows. That's always the first instinct for something like this, and I'm glad Orelius stayed away from the Shadows aspect and went with more of a normal rogue/stealth approach instead.
Occult Magister?.... Is it just me or would a class archetype like this benefit from being more tied to the plane of shadow or something? Some kind of ability that emulates that more would be cool.There is already the Shadow Fade (Rog/Sum) that has a tie to shadows. That's always the first instinct for something like this, and I'm glad Orelius stayed away from the Shadows aspect and went with more of a normal rogue/stealth approach instead.
If we go with Stealth Summoner (I really don't hate it, just wanted to see if anyone had something better), then I think we'll just call the "stealth eidolon" an "eidolon" instead, to avoid redundancy of saying "stealth" for everything, as, it's really only some minor changes, not overhauls like other MCAs.
@Orelius
We can do that. I always find it easier to pare things down than building things up.
But the Stealth Summoner and the Stealth Eidolon must learn to Stealth Sneak and Stealth Kill together!
...Stealth.(Not as fun as using "space" or "in space" for everything. The Space Summoner must rescue his space Eidolon from the space-aliens! IN SPACE!)
Whatever, I'm easy.
EDIT: Let's not worry about the name, you think of the MCA?
Reminds me of the Witchalock and all the war~classes... Lets no go there!
Other than that just peeking in to say hi, continue the good work!
Whatever, I'm easy.
EDIT: Let's not worry about the name, you think of the MCA?
The MCA should be getting 6+INT skill points. The Summoner base skill point/level rate is 6+INT, not 2+INT.
There could certainly be more unique things in this class. I don't know what those things could be, though.
Whatever, I'm easy.
EDIT: Let's not worry about the name, you think of the MCA?
The MCA should be getting 6+INT skill points. The Summoner base skill point/level rate is 6+INT, not 2+INT.
There could certainly be more unique things in this class. I don't know what those things could be, though.
Summoner only gets 2 + Int, Rogue getss 8 + Int per level, as the summoner is the primary class, it calculates to 4 + Int for this MCA. If we want it to be 6 + Int, it shouldn't be a problem.
I can't think of anything unique either.
Hm... I coulda sworn they got 6+INT skill ranks per level.
Oh well.
6+INT skill points per level would be best for this MCA, since it isn't INT-centric and it will have so many skills.
I'm good with that. Sometimes, the skills are dependant on the flavor and build, not necessarily the combo of primary/secondary.
How do you feel abut the amount of sneak attack damage, number of rogue talents, and the new evolutions?
Those are all great.
That's why I want something else to do with this MCA.
It's too easy.
Sometimes they are easy, and then we move on. :D
D:
it just seems so bland so far... I kind of want to wait if anyone else has any ideas on it.
Sure. Still waiting for Christos to post his anyways.
# Stealth Summoner
D:
it just seems so bland so far... I kind of want to wait if anyone else has any ideas on it.
Weeeellllll, you haven't really exploited the summoner's range of abilities to fully embrace the concept. Just for starters, you could:
* make a shadow/darkness based spell list;
* tweak bond senses to work with the darkvision stuff - -perhaps allowing the stealth summoner to borrow the eidolon's darkvision if he doesn't possess it himself;
* tweak shield ally to be an offensive flank-improving ability, or make the shadows/darkness themselves/itself the stealth summoner's flanking buddy;
* tweak transposition to utilize shadows or darkness, effectively a shadowdancer's d-jump kind of thing - I think we did something similar with shadow fade;
* tweak Aspect to fully take advantage of the shadowstuff "Darker Aspect" kind of thing;
I might have more later...
# Stealth Summoner
Reminds me of the Witchalock and all the war~classes... Lets no go there!
Other than that just peeking in to say hi, continue the good work!
Ah. Another county heard from.
Actually, let's go there. Thanks Starfox! ;P
Warpfade.
Fadelock.
Shadowlock.
etc etc etc
So, I am not on "my" computer tonight so...1 more day only I promise. :(
off the top of my head mechanics include hexes replacing deeds, and being able to prepare one particular hex per day to able to deliverable through their firearm(singular attack action), and spontaneous casting of patron spells using grit (renamed misfortune). was still thinking of some abilities to use with misfortune, possible as a hex extender like cackle (non-stacking with cackle).
Ok i intentionally did some scaling back for the purposes of further development.
Legend tells of a mysterious brand of gunslinger that wanders the west. Cloaked in mystery and wielding dark forces as a sidearm, these haunted gunmen bring misfortune to those that cross them. While many foolish men and women claim to be members of this exclusive order, few can truly count themselves among their number. As the saying goes “beware the crack of a gun at night, for it may be a haunted gunman here to give you a fright.”
Haunted Gunman
Gunslinger/witch
BAB: full
Skills: 4+ int
A haunted gunman adds 3 class skills for the witch skill list to her skill list as class skills.
Hex(Su): At 1st a haunted gunman recieves the witches hex class feature with an effective witch level equal to her haunted gunman level. A haunted gunman recieves a hex at 1st , 3rd, 7th, 11th, 15th, and 19th A haunted gunman must spend a point of misfortune to use one of her hexes. This replaces deeds.
Misfortune(Su): A haunted gunman draws upon eldritch energies to bring terror and misfortune upon her enemies. This functions identical to the grit save that instead of deeds, it is used to power her hex class feature.
Unceasing advance(Su): Bad luck comes to those that try to take down the haunted gunman. At 2nd level a haunted gunman gains a +1 luck bonus to armor class. This bonus increases by +1 for every 4 levels past 2nd.
Signature hex(Su): Some hexes become second nature to the haunted gunman. At 4th level and every 4 levels thereafter a haunted gunman may select one hex that she knows. The haunted gunman may use this hex without spending a point of misfortune, and may instead spend a point of misfortune to use that hex as part of an attack action with her battered firearm. This replaces bonus feats.
Major Hex(Su): At 15th and 19th a haunted gunman may select a major hex in place of a regular hex.
it looks underpowered because right now it is. I am torn on several different directions this could go, and even considered scaling it back to 3/4ths bab to insert some more stuff, but i found it already had to work harder to be a gunslinger by not getting bonus feats. I removed patron casting because its just not a good enough sized pool to work worth for the sort of thing, even with the refill mechanic.
What I am looking for:
1.Fleshing it out more to make up for the loss of abilities, hexes are great, but they are not worth all the deeds of a gunslinger at any particular level interval. two different things ive been going back and forth on is either letting them select a single deed every so many levels, or creating new hexes that simulate the deeds (which would lock out signature deed as a viable option, but would be thematically appropriate.)
2. just more thematic hexes period. I am even considering making the battered firearm a hex and giving them a hex at 1st level. Again some deeds may be workable as hexes, but I want the to stay eldritch feel of them as well.
3. I can't decide if I wanna go all the way and make signature hex just a flat swift action at the cost of a point or not.
thanks everyone.
Weeeellllll, you haven't really exploited the summoner's range of abilities to fully embrace the concept. Just for starters, you could:
* make a shadow/darkness based spell list;
See, this is why we need sufficient people to provide imput. Just one or two of us doing so and the creative well runs dry quickly.
Done! It's only up to 4th level spells though, so its rather limited with what spells are added.
* tweak bond senses to work with the darkvision stuff - -perhaps allowing the stealth summoner to borrow the eidolon's darkvision if he doesn't possess it himself;
This would be cool. Gains the eidolon's darkvision while it is summoned. Consider that done.
* tweak shield ally to be an offensive flank-improving ability, or make the shadows/darkness themselves/itself the stealth summoner's flanking buddy;
I really don't know how this would work. The only thing I can think of is if the shadow of an ally (including the eidolon) is cast into an appropriate threatned square, the stealth summoner (or his eidolon) gain a +2 flanking bonus to attacks. For Greater Shield Ally, this would increase to +4.
* tweak transposition to utilize shadows or darkness, effectively a shadowdancer's d-jump kind of thing - I think we did something similar with shadow fade;
How's this? Still Transposition as normal, but the eidlon also gains the shadowdancer's shadow jump ability, but far more limited of course.
Stealthy Transposition (Su): This is exactly like the summoner ability of the same name. In addition, stealth summoner or his stealth eidolon can travel between shadows as if by means of a dimension door spell. The limitation is that the magical transport must begin and end in an area with at least some dim light. A stealth eidolon and stealth eidolon can jump up to a combine total of 40 feet each day in this way; this may be a single jump of 40 feet or four jumps of 10 feet each. Every three levels higher than 8th, the distance a stealth eidolon and stealth eidolon can jump each day increases 10 feet, up to a maximum of 80 feet at 20th. This amount can be split among many jumps, but each one, no matter how small, counts as a 10-foot increment.
* tweak Aspect to fully take advantage of the shadowstuff "Darker Aspect" kind of thing;
I might have more later...
Unfortunately Aspect and Greater Aspect are part of the swap outs. As is Life bond. BUT, we could create a new rogue talent and advanced talent that can be chosen by Stealth Summoner that does what you are suggesting. That'll give it the option of a more/or less summoner-eque build. I think limiting the selection helps to balance this. If there are any additions or changes to the evolutions that can be chosen, feel free to chime in.
Aspect of Darkness
The stealth summoner can gain eidolon evolutions.
Prerequisites: Advanced Talents, Stealth Summoner 10th
Benefits: The stealth summoner can divert up to 2 points from his stealth eidolon’s evolution pool to add evolutions to herself. She cannot select any evolutions that the stealth eidolon could not possess, and she must be able to meet the requirements as well. She cannot select the ability increase evolution through this rogue talent. Any points spent in this way are taken from the stealth eidolon’s evolution pool (reducing the total number available to the eidolon). The stealth summoner can change the evolutions she receives from these points any time she can change the stealth eidolon’s evolutions. The stealth summoner may choose from the following evolutions: Basic Magic, Energy Attack, Magic Attacks, Minor Magic, Shadow Blend, Shadow Form, Unnatural Aura.
Greater Aspect of Darkness
The stealth summoner can gain more powerful evolutions.
Prerequisites: Advanced Talents, Stealth Summoner 18th, Aspect of Darkness rogue talent
Benefits: The stealth summoner can divert more of his stealth eidolon’s evolutions to himself. This ability functions as the aspect of darkness rogue talent, but up to 6 evolution points can be taken. Unlike the aspect of darkness rogue talent, the stealth eidolon loses 1 point from its evolution pool for every 2 points (or fraction thereof) diverted to the stealth summoner. The stealth summoner adds the following evolutions to the list that he can select: Blindsight, Incorporeal Form, Major Magic, See in Darkness, Ultimate Magic.
Ok i intentionally did some scaling back for the purposes of further development.
** spoiler omitted **It looks underpowered because right now it is. I am torn on several different directions this could go, and even considered scaling it back to 3/4ths bab to insert some more stuff, but i found it already had to work harder to be a gunslinger by not getting bonus feats. I removed patron casting because its just not a good enough sized pool to work worth for the sort of thing, even with the refill mechanic.
What I am looking for:1.Fleshing it out more to make up for the loss of abilities, hexes are great, but they are not worth all the deeds of a gunslinger at any particular level interval. two different things ive been going back and forth on is either letting them select a single deed every so many levels, or creating new hexes that simulate the deeds (which would lock out signature deed as a viable option, but would be thematically appropriate.)
2. just more thematic hexes period. I am even considering making the battered firearm a hex and giving them a hex at 1st level. Again some deeds may be workable as hexes, but I want the to stay eldritch feel of them as well.
3. I can't decide if I wanna go all the way and make signature hex just a flat swift action at the cost of a point or not.
thanks everyone.
Here's my suggestions.
1) Stay full BAB, stay light armor, stay same wp profs.
2) Keep grit and deeds, but limit it to choosing only 2 of the 3 deeds. This allows for some room to maneuver with swaps and abilities. We've done this in other MCAs, and I believe it's something they've don in normal archetypes too.
3) Need to decide whether you want good Fort/Will or Good Ref/Will saves
4) Go paladin spell casting, have patron spells, and give the Haunted Gunman a "haunted" gun, which functions as their "familiar", he must commune with the spirit (or patron) haunting his gun. The gun should be some ancient heirloom that belonged to an ancestor long ago, and its that spirit that inhabits the gun. May want to limit the patrons that can be selected.
5) Replace bonus feats with hexes at 2/4/8/12/16/20, with major hex at 12th.
6) Give a Hex Gun ability at 3rd, which would work like the spellstrike ability with her gun, but can deliver hexes with the bullet and costs a grit point to do so.
7) Signature Hex replaces gun training at 5/9/11/17. Hexes chosen as a signature hex can be used with the hex gun ability as long as she has at least 1 grit point, instead of costing a grit point.
8) Change Nimble to Lucky, granting a luck bonus to AC and also able to gain this as a luck bonus to a single Reflex save once per day. This way you could go good Fort/Will saves and still have some benefit to Ref saves.
9) If you have the creative juices flowing, and have ideas for MCA specific deeds, I think you could just create them, and then allow them to be chosen as part of the 2 deeds she can choose at each deed increment level.
The Table would look something like this.
Base
Class Attack Fort Ref Will Spells per Day
Level Bonus Save Save Save Special 1st 2nd 3rd 4th
1st +1 +2 +0 +2 Deeds, grit, gunsmith, haunted gun, patron spells — — — —
2nd +2 +3 +0 +3 Lucky +1, hex — — — —
3rd +3 +3 +1 +3 Deeds, hex gun — — — —
4th +4 +4 +1 +4 Hex 0 — — —
5th +5 +4 +1 +4 Signature hex 1 — — —
6th +6/+1 +5 +2 +5 Lucky +2 1 — — —
7th +7/+2 +5 +2 +5 Deeds 1 0 — —
8th +8/+3 +6 +2 +6 Hex 1 1 — —
9th +9/+4 +6 +3 +6 Signature hex 2 1 — —
10th +10/+5 +7 +3 +7 Lucky +3 2 1 0 —
11th +11/+6/+1 +7 +3 +7 Deeds 2 1 1 —
12th +12/+7/+2 +8 +4 +8 Hex 2 2 1 —
13th +13/+8/+3 +8 +4 +8 Signature hex 3 2 1 0
14th +14/+9/+4 +9 +4 +9 Lucky +4 3 2 1 1
15th +15/+10/+5 +9 +5 +9 Deeds 3 2 2 1
16th +16/+11/+7/+2 +10 +5 +10 Hex 3 3 2 1
17th +17/+12/+7/+2 +10 +5 +10 Signature hex 4 3 2 1
18th +18/+13/+8/+3 +11 +6 +11 Lucky +5 4 3 2 2
19th +19/+14/+9/+4 +11 +6 +11 Deeds 4 3 3 2
20th +20/+15/+10/+5 +12 +6 +12 Hex, true grit 4 4 3 3
**NOW if you don't want to go with any spellcasting whatsoever, then that gives us some more room to work with for unique abilities.
Lets try no spellcasting and see what we come up with. Wanna play with misfortune and cursing as ability concepts.
Alrighty! :D
If you want to go the Misfortune (grit) route, then I would allow hexes to be used as long as the Haunted Gunman has 1 grit point left. Then grit (misfortune) can be spent on the deeds and the hex gun ability to deliver hexes can also function on there being at least one grit point. Then Signature Hex can be used as an ability to allow each chosen hex to be used without there being any grit at all, and can be used with the hex gun without needing remaining grit too.
What cursing are you refering too? Hexes?
# Haunted Gunman
Wouldnt the d10 and d6 HP, Full BAB and 1/2 BAB result in 3/4, d8 HP?
I'm not seeing much of a swap out of gunslinger, so maybe the Full BAB is ok? Mixing that attack frequency with hexes is problematic, but perhaps countered by the grit-like misfortune...
Hexes or some kind of debuff effect, kinda like an antipaladin aura. I really one these guys as a sort of Jonah hex kinda character.
@Osw, i was open to 3/4ths, if necessary.
# Haunted Gunman
Wouldnt the d10 and d6 HP, Full BAB and 1/2 BAB result in 3/4, d8 HP?
I'm not seeing much of a swap out of gunslinger, so maybe the Full BAB is ok? Mixing that attack frequency with hexes is problematic, but perhaps countered by the grit-like misfortune...
Yes, it would normally result in a d8, 3/4 BAB. However, the concept Christos is going for should really use the full BAB and d10. We could o what Christos suggested at first, have "Hex" as one of the deeds, costing 1 grit to unleash a hex with her hex gun ability, then she chooses two other deeds at each interval. Then, Signature hex (in place of Bonus feats?) can lower the cost of the each chosen "hex" deeds to an "at least 1 grit point". This would give her 2 deeds and up to 6 hexes to use. May want to keep Major hexes out? If not, allow them at 11th, 15th and 19th if they stay. That should even out the deeds/hex issue Christos had earlier.
We can use the Unceasing Advance in place of Nimble (though I'd just call it lucky).
Then if there are other unique abilities, we have Gun Training to work with. As this is called the Haunted Gunman, I'd really like to see some sort of "haunted" type calss abilities, something to do with spirits or something. Maybe, we can incorporate reloading ahnds into a haunted gun call feature, usable X/day or something. It really needs something ghosty or spirit-based to tie into the Haunted aspect. Maybe she gives off an eerie feeling, sort of like the Unnatural Aura evolution?
I like the unnatural aura idea and reloading hands totally sounds viable as a hex.
# Haunted Gunman
Other ideas:
"Free" hex on a critical hit...
Familiar bond with gun...
OK, I compiled what's been said and here's what I have. We can use this as our working base and make changes and adjustments from here.
Primary: Gunslinger.
Secondary: Witch.
Alignment: Any.
Hit Dice: d10.
Bonus Skills and Ranks: The haunted gunman selects three witch skills to add to her class skills in addition to the normal gunslinger class skills. The haunted gunman gains a number of ranks at each level equal to 4 + Int modifier.
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: the haunted gunman is proficient with all simple and martial weapons, and with firearms. She is also proficient with light armor, but not with shields.
Cursed Grit (Ex): This is exactly like the gunslinger’s grit ability, except that the haunted gunman must spend grit to activate her hexes.
Deeds: This is exactly like the gunslinger ability of the same name, except that the haunted gunman may choose only two deeds that she knows of each level.
Haunted Gun: At 1st level, a haunted gunman gains one of the following firearms of her choice: blunderbuss, musket, or pistol. Her starting weapon is battered, and only she knows how to use it properly. All other creatures treat her gun as if it had the broken condition. If the weapon already has the broken condition, it does not work at all for anyone else trying to use it. This starting weapon can only be sold for scrap (it’s worth 4d10 gp when sold). The haunted gunman also gains Gunsmithing as a bonus feat.
This starting firearm, while battered, is a family heirloom, haunted by an ancestral spirit. A haunted gunman forms a powerful bond with this ancestral spirit. It is this spirit that grants the haunted gunman her hexes, and any hex related abilities. If a haunted gunman attempts to use a hex without her firearm in hand or upon her person, she must make a concentration check or the hex fails. The DC for this check is equal to 15 + 1/2 the target’s Hit Dice.
At 5th level, a haunted gunman can be used once per day to cast any of the following spells as a spell-like ability: ghostly disguise, haunting mists, reloading hands. This spell is treated like any other spell cast by a witch, using the haunted gunman’s level to determine casting time, duration, and other effects dependent on the witch’s level. A haunted gunman can add additional magic abilities to her haunted gun as if she has the required Item Creation Feats and if she meets the level prerequisites of the feat. The magic properties of a haunted gun, including any magic abilities added to the firearm, only function for the haunted gunman who owns it. If a haunted gun’s owner dies, or the firearm is replaced, the object reverts to being an ordinary masterwork item of the appropriate type.
If a haunted gun is damaged, it is restored to full hit points the next time the haunted gunman rests for 8 hours. If the haunted gun is lost or destroyed, it can be replaced after 1 week in a special ritual that costs 200 gp per haunted gunman level plus the cost of the masterwork item. This ritual takes 8 hours to complete. Items replaced in this way do not possess any of the additional enchantments of the previous haunted gun. A haunted gunman can designate an existing magic firearm as her haunted gun. This functions in the same way as replacing a lost or destroyed item except that the new magic firearm retains its abilities while gaining the benefits and drawbacks of becoming a haunted gun, including the haunting ancestral spirit.
The ancestral spirit grants the haunted gunman a number of benefits, but also a curse. A haunted gun’s ancestral spirit grants the following special abilities to its owner.
Empathic Link (Su): The haunted gunman has an empathic link with her haunted gun’s spirit to a 1 mile distance. The haunted gunman can communicate emphatically with the spirit, but cannot see through its eyes. Because of the link's limited nature, only general emotions can be shared. The haunted gunamnr has the same connection to an item or place that her haunted gun does.
Hex Gun (Su): At 3rd level or higher, whenever a haunted gunman activates a hex, she can deliver the hex through the haunted gun she is wielding as part of a ranged attack. The haunted gunman can make one free ranged attack with her firearm (at her highest base attack bonus) as part of activating this hex. If successful, this ranged attack deals its normal damage as well as the effects of the hex. This attack uses the firearm’s critical range and critical modifier on a successful critical hit. If a haunted gunman confirms a critical hit with her firearm, she can activate one hex against the target as a free action.
Speak with Master (Ex): A haunted gun’s spirit and the haunted gunman can communicate telepathically as if they were using a common language. Other creatures do not understand the communication without magical help. The haunted gun must be within 30 feet of its master for this ability to function.
Unnatural Aura (Su): As a side effect of possessing a haunted gun, the haunted gunman emits an unnatural aura. Normal animals do not willingly approach the haunted gunman unless the animal’s master makes a DC 25 Handle Animal, Ride, or wild empathy check. In addition, the haunted gunman takes a –2 penalty on all Bluff and Diplomacy skill checks.
This ability, hex, and major hex replace gunsmith and one deed each at 1st, 3rd, 7th, 11th, 15th, and 19th level.
Hex: Starting at 1st level, a haunted gunman gains the witch’s hex ability. She can select a hex at 1st level and again at 3rd level and every four levels thereafter. Activating a hex costs 1 cursed grit point. She may also select one of the following new hexes restricted to the Haunted Gunman multiclass archetype.
Daunting Gaze (Sp): As a standard action, the haunted gunman can compel a single target to look at her and only her for 1 round per level. While staring at the haunted gunman, the target is considered to be averting its eyes from every creature but her, granting creatures other than you concealment against the target’s attacks. If the target willingly leaves the haunted gunman’s line of sight, it is blinded for 1 round and the hex ends. If the haunted gunman willingly leaves the target’s line of sight or becomes unconscious or dead, the hexed creature suffers no ill effects. Blind creatures and creatures immune to gaze attacks are immune to this hex.
Haunting Visage (Sp): As a standard action, the haunted gunman can surround herself with disturbing illusions, making her look and sound like a bizarre, insane fey creature. The haunted gunman gains DR 1/cold iron against a single opponent for 1 minute or until she takes damage.
Lucky (Ex): Starting at 2nd level, a haunted gunman gains a +1 luck bonus to AC while wearing light or no armor. This bonus increases by +1 for every four levels beyond 2nd level (to a maximum of +5 at 20th level). In addition, a haunted gunman can apply this luck bonus to single Reflex saving throw once per day. This ability replaces nimble.
Signature Hex (Ex): Starting at 5th level, a haunted gunman can select one hex that she knows and that she must spend grit to activate. She can activate this hex as long as she has at least 1 grit point. Every four levels thereafter (9th, 13th, and 17th), the haunted gunman selects another hex, and can activate it as long as she has at least 1 grit point. This ability replaces gun training.
Major Hex: At 11th level, a haunted gunman gains the witch’s major hex ability. Activating a major hex costs 2 cursed grit points. She may also select one of the following new major hexes restricted to the Haunted Gunman multiclass archetype.
Frightful Presence (Ex): The haunted gunman’s presence becomes unsettling to her foes and gains the frightful presence ability. The haunted gunman can activate this hex ability as part of an offensive action, such as a charge or attack. Opponents within 30 feet of the haunted gunman must make a Will save or become shaken for 3d6 rounds. The DC of this save is equal to 10 + 1/2 the haunted gunman’s level + the haunted gunaman’s Charisma modifier. If the haunted gunman has at least 4 more levels (or Hit Dice) than an opponent, that opponent becomes frightened instead. Foes with more levels or HD than the haunted gunman are immune to this effect.
True Grit (Ex): This is exactly like the gunslinger ability of the same name. Alternatively, the haunted gunman can choose two hexes that she knows and that she must spend grit to activate (including signature hexes). She can activate these hexes for 1 grit point fewer (minimum 0) than usual. If the number of grit points to activate a hex is reduced to 0, the haunted gunman can activate this hex as long as she has at least 1 grit point. If a hex could already be activated as long as she had at least 1 grit point (such as signature hex), she can now activate that hex even when she has no grit points.
Table: Haunted Gunman
Base
Class Attack Fort Ref Will
Level Bonus Save Save Save Special
1st +1 +2 +0 +2 Deeds, cursed grit, haunted gun, hex
2nd +2 +3 +0 +3 Lucky +1
3rd +3 +3 +1 +3 Deeds, hex
4th +4 +4 +1 +4 Bonus feat
5th +5 +4 +1 +4 Signature hex
6th +6/+1 +5 +2 +5 Lucky +2
7th +7/+2 +5 +2 +5 Deeds, hex
8th +8/+3 +6 +2 +6 Bonus feat
9th +9/+4 +6 +3 +6 Signature hex
10th +10/+5 +7 +3 +7 Lucky +3
11th +11/+6/+1 +7 +3 +7 Deeds, hex, major hex
12th +12/+7/+2 +8 +4 +8 Bonus feat
13th +13/+8/+3 +8 +4 +8 Signature hex
14th +14/+9/+4 +9 +4 +9 Lucky +4
15th +15/+10/+5 +9 +5 +9 Deeds, hex
16th +16/+11/+6/+1 +10 +5 +10 Bonus feat
17th +17/+12/+7/+2 +10 +5 +10 Signature hex
18th +18/+13/+8/+3 +11 +6 +11 Lucky +5
19th +19/+14/+9/+4 +11 +6 +11 Deeds, hex
20th +20/+15/+10/+5 +12 +6 +12 Bonus feat, true grit
# Haunted Gunman
* Just on flavor, I'm leery of the ancestral spirit, not just because my Lineage Saint used the same concept, but more because it ties this MCA unnecessarily to its ancestors. While that worked perfectly for the Lineage Saint, I don't think it is necessary here.
Imagine if the half orc haunted gunman found an elven gun, with an attached elven spirit. So I would change this to focus spirit, object spirit, gun haunt etc etc etc…
* Another problem is that Gunslinger iconic is female, and we follow Paizo's lead on that for EVERY MCA - as that helps with the gender formatting for language. So Haunted Gunner is better, but perhaps something else fits. I do like Haunted Gunman, but….
* I love the empathic link/speak with master... This is like the firearm version of the gauntlet witch or blackblade magus… :)
On that note, if there is a spirit in the gun, why should it not then have some ranks in knowledge (various), be able to aid with perception, sense motive etc?
* I'd rather see a more full expression of SLAs earlier, maybe some cantrips from 2nd or even the get go. I guess with Full BAB and d10 HD we are out of room...
Fyi i was going for the possessed or followed by dark forces kinda haunted, not necessarily spirits. Other than that it looks balanced (although osw makes a good point on the slas)
Sure, that sounds cool Christos. Can you pinpoint some exact flavor?