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I know it's much too far out to know who will be included for the iconics in this AP but I wanted to share mys wishlist.
Amiri - Since she is kellid and this AP takes place in the barbarian lands I think she is a natural fit. Plus, I'm always happy with more Amiri artwork...
Lirianne - An AP with super science seems like a great place for Lirianne to make her first AP appearance.
After those two the choices are less obvious.
Ezren - We haven't seen him for a while and his evocation magic vs giant robots would make for some neat art.
Lem - We also haven't seen Lem for a while in the APs and while he isn't my first choice for a skill monkey, Merisiel has more AP credits to her name than anyone else.
The party is pretty well balanced with melee, range, arcane, and skill. Plus Lem can supplement healing when Amiri gets beat up tanking her way through encounters.
What would you consider a good lineup for Iron Gods?
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My choices would be Amiri, Lirianne, Damiel, and Lini(or Seoni).
My vote for Damiel, Amiri, Lirianne and the iconic magus which name I cannot remember.
Seoni, lini, sajan and harsk.
Imrijka and Valeros so I can ship them easier.
Team nerd: Damiel, Ezren, Feiya and Seltyiel.
Team Base: Alahazra, Damiel, Imrijka, and Seltyiel.
I feel now, hopefully before they start commissioning the art, is the best time to ask for certain Iconics.
So yeah, Lirianne is right up this AP's alley. Also:
Reiko -- Because she hasn't been in an AP yet, either.
Balthasar -- Same reason.
That leaves us with a Divine Spellcaster. Imrijka had Reign of Winter, Seelah is in Wrath of the Righteous, and if Alahazra isn't in Mummy's Mask, something has gone seriously wrong with Paizo. So that leaves longtime veteran Kyra to take up that role, unless you want Lem to do the healing.
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Since the theme is not just Iron, but also Gods, a traditional sort of divine character might be interesting from an RP standpoint, their faith being challenged by the seeming appearance of 'new gods.'
So, Kyra, Seelah or Imrijka, all more traditional sorts of faith-based characters, following traditional gods. (Feiya might also count, as she seems to regard Desna as her 'patron,' even if she's not technically a divine caster.)
Feiya, Amiri, Seelah and Imrijka would be a funky team.
All the cool Iconics be ladies? :)
I wouldn't mind seeing Balthazar as an Iconic, but his perfect chance to shine was in the Worldwound-set AP, since Summoners were a big thing in pre-Worldwound Sarkoris, and since that didn't seem to happen, he's less thematically appropriate for pretty much anything else, ever.
Maybe we can have an Underdark set group that includes Lem, Harsk, Lini and Balthazar, and call it 'Team Shorty.'
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I feel now, hopefully before they start commissioning the art, is the best time to ask for certain Iconics.
So yeah, Lirianne is right up this AP's alley. Also:
Reiko -- Because she hasn't been in an AP yet, either.
Balthasar -- Same reason.
That leaves us with a Divine Spellcaster. Imrijka had Reign of Winter, Seelah is in Wrath of the Righteous, and if Alahazra isn't in Mummy's Mask, something has gone seriously wrong with Paizo. So that leaves longtime veteran Kyra to take up that role, unless you want Lem to do the healing.
Way too late. We commissioned the covers for Iron Gods many, many months ago. The iconics for this AP were more or less locked in back in August.
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Way too late. We commissioned the covers for Iron Gods many, many months ago. The iconics for this AP were more or less locked in back in August.
Well phooey, I was hoping we could jump the gun and let our voices shape a little bit of the AP. Oh well, I am sure the iconics picked are great. Any spoilers on who we will see gracing the artwork?
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Creative Director
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Way too late. We commissioned the covers for Iron Gods many, many months ago. The iconics for this AP were more or less locked in back in August.Well phooey, I was hoping we could jump the gun and let our voices shape a little bit of the AP. Oh well, I am sure the iconics picked are great. Any spoilers on who we will see gracing the artwork?
No spoilers yet, nope. Unlikely to reveal that information until around Paizocon.
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Since we are on the subject, how do the iconics get chosen and when? Is it part of the development meetings when you guys discuss what you should add to the line and when? Or does it come at a later stage?
This line of questioning actually makes me very curious about the way APs are developed. As a writer and game nerd I'm kind of a geek about the creation of things.
These are good questions. Also what are the chances that Paizo would run a contest one of these days for favorite of these three ideas (insert three ideas here) and your favorite four iconics (list all iconics here) and let people vote on it?
It would be kinda cool to get some input on an upcoming AP even if it was twelve months out.
I'd be ok with just AP subscribers getting votes too! << >>
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Creative Director
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Since we are on the subject, how do the iconics get chosen and when? Is it part of the development meetings when you guys discuss what you should add to the line and when? Or does it come at a later stage?
This line of questioning actually makes me very curious about the way APs are developed. As a writer and game nerd I'm kind of a geek about the creation of things.
We choose iconics for an Adventure Path near the start of the process. We have to send in cover orders for each volume of an AP very VERY early, which more or less means at the same time the outline is finalized. This generally happens about a year before the first adventure sees print—I decided on Iron Gods' iconics back in late July, for example, and we'll need to decide on the NEXT AP's iconics here in about a month.
How we choose them is a mix of:
1) What iconics we think would be thematically appropriate for the AP's story.
2) What mix would make for a relatively well-balanced party.
3) What iconics we've used recently.
4) What iconics we've rarely used.
5) What iconics the developer prefers.
As a general rule, the lead developer for the AP (that'd be me for the APs that launch in August, or Rob for the APs that launch in February) gets to choose the iconics, but we generally ask for advice and suggestions from a few other folks.
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Creative Director
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These are good questions. Also what are the chances that Paizo would run a contest one of these days for favorite of these three ideas (insert three ideas here) and your favorite four iconics (list all iconics here) and let people vote on it?
It would be kinda cool to get some input on an upcoming AP even if it was twelve months out.
I'd be ok with just AP subscribers getting votes too! << >>
Chances of involving a contest in the design/development of an AP are pretty much zero, I'm sorry to say. Running a contest is a fantastic drain on resources and a fantastic way to disrupt schedules, and neither of those two things would help an AP stay on schedule. Furthermore... it's my belief that the fewer proverbial cooks in the kitchen when it comes to adventures and adventure paths (and any story-based product, for that matter), the better.
That said... for Wrath of the Righteous we did do something like this. I was drawing a blank on the name for the AP, and was calling it "The Worldwound Incursion" which is a fine title but kinda lame for an entire AP, and so I posted on these boards for suggestions. We got LOTS of great suggestions, and the final title, "Wrath of the Righteous," was one that came from that list of customer suggestions. We might do this again in the future... but no guarantees, since I'd much rather handle it all in house.
Since we are on the subject, how do the iconics get chosen and when? Is it part of the development meetings when you guys discuss what you should add to the line and when? Or does it come at a later stage?
This line of questioning actually makes me very curious about the way APs are developed. As a writer and game nerd I'm kind of a geek about the creation of things.
We choose iconics for an Adventure Path near the start of the process. We have to send in cover orders for each volume of an AP very VERY early, which more or less means at the same time the outline is finalized. This generally happens about a year before the first adventure sees print—I decided on Iron Gods' iconics back in late July, for example, and we'll need to decide on the NEXT AP's iconics here in about a month.
How we choose them is a mix of:
1) What iconics we think would be thematically appropriate for the AP's story.
2) What mix would make for a relatively well-balanced party.
3) What iconics we've used recently.
4) What iconics we've rarely used.
5) What iconics the developer prefers.
As a general rule, the lead developer for the AP (that'd be me for the APs that launch in August, or Rob for the APs that launch in February) gets to choose the iconics, but we generally ask for advice and suggestions from a few other folks.
With that, lemme guess the ones for Mummy's Mask:
1) With most of the story taking place in Osirion, the first pick is probably Alahazra, as her homeland, though not the actual location, still has the same "North Africa" geographic similarities.
2) Balazar is both rarely used and provides Arcane Spellcasting. On the other hand, I think Ezren's background makes a good "Explorer" hook.
3,4) For Martial characters, Lirianne is the closest geographically, but I think it's also likely that she was saved for this one. Her aside, I think Sajan's background makes it easy to fit him in the area. After him, Alain was just in the previous AP, and Valeros the one before that. Amri is unlikely because she also fits this AP. Oddly enough, this seems to point to Hayato, of all people, as primary Beat Stick for this AP, though watching him trek through the desert in an O-Yori is bound to be amusing. Harsk and Reiko are kinda outliers, but both are possible.
For Iron Gods:
1) Numeria is Kellid territory, so like I said above, Amri is the Geographic choice for this AP.
2) Lirianne, with her higher-tech class, also seems to be a lock unless you used her in Mummy's Mask. In which case, I would say Hayato (if not above) or Reiko could make good secondary Fighters.
3) Again, going with both (Mad) Science theme, and not used very much, seems to point to Damiel being the Arcane Spellcaster for this AP. Outside of him, it's still too early for Seoni or Feiya to reappear, but Lem is also a good guess.
4) I think I mentioned this in another thread, but for Healer/Divine Caster, seems to point to classic Kyra or maybe Lini. Honestly, I kinda hope the latter. Now that I think about it, I don't think you've ever done an AP where half the Iconic cast was Small.
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From what I've got at hand;
RotR - Valeros, Seoni, Kyra, Merisiel (I think, I only have the collected edition)
CotCT - Ezren, Seelah, Harsk, Lem
SD - Sajan, Lini, Seltyiel, Amiri
LoF - Valeros, Kyra, Merisiel, Ezren
CoT - don't have that one (covers online suggest Seltyiel, Seelah, Seoni and Lem)
KM - Amiri, Harsk, Lini, Sajan
SS - Valeros, Kyra, Merisiel, Ezren
(no longer statted up in back, but still on covers)
CC - Seoni, Seelah, Feiya, Merisiel
JR - Lini, Sajan, Feiya, Hayato
S&S - Seltyiel, Alhazra, Valeros, Merisiel
SS 2 - Kyra, Amiri, Harsk, Damiel
RoW - Lini, Valeros, Imrijka, Feiya
WotR - don't have it, but covers online suggest Seelah, Seoni, Alain and Merisiel
So, up to WotR (if guesses on RotR, CoT & WotR are accurate);
Merisiel x6
Valeros x5
Kyra, Seoni, Seelah & Lini x4
Amiri, Ezren, Harsk &, Sajan x3
Lem x2
Seltyiel x3
Lirianne x0
Feiya x3
Alhazra, Damiel, Alain & Imrijka x1
Balazar x0
Hayato x1
Reiko x0
So it looks like Merisiel has top spot. Lem is lagging behind, for core Iconics.
Of the APG classes, Feiya is way ahead, while Balazar is conspicuous by his absence.
The joke is that Reiko is in every group and on every cover, you just can't see her. :)
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For at least his first appearance (and probably his second as well), Seltyiel was the 'iconic multi-classed / PrC dude' (and pulled double duty as the 'iconic evil dude'), being a fighter, then a wizard, then finally an eldritch knight (fighter 1/evoker 5/eldritch knight 8, by the end of Second Darkness).
As for why he showed up that early, perhaps it was because there are only 11 core classes, and if they didn't shove someone into that 12th slot, they would have been recycling Iconics by the third AP (and needed someone on that 12th AP cover, since the previous 11 had been of Iconics)!
Seltyiel getting that promotion to 'Iconic multiclass / PrC dude' always left me wanting to see the 'Iconic' Dragon Disciple or Loremaster get some play. Those are some equally hot pieces of art (as are the Assassin, Duelist, etc.).
Heck, the Tengu (Cleric?) who made the cover of the Advanced Race Guide could even sneak in somewhere, being one of the few (only?) characters to show up on a hardback cover without being an Iconic (barring the Bestiaries, NPC Codex, etc., natch).
My guesses, and I like some of the guesses Samas had above...
Lirianne - we've got tech here and that means tech weaponry in all likelyhood (futuristic firearms and who knows what else). Also, she hasn't featured yet. This would probably be a perfect path to introduce her. She'll need to be a bit of a tech skill monkey to complement the gunnery - lets just hope she doesn't tinker with any nukes...
Amiri - for reasons described above. Also, it looks like she is on one Numeria product cover now already. Probably a taste of what's to come?
Seoni - blast those bots with electricity. She's a popular iconic but her using lots of evoc magic vs the bots might be key to her making the roster.
Lini - for clerical spells/healing as well as a nature vs machine dynamic. Might play very well if interacting with tech averse barbarian tribes. Nature might very much abhor a vacuum...cleaner, so it would be cool if she got the nod to help defend Golarion from these metal monstrosities.
Edit - just realized all my choices were female - so, that would probably not fly (though it would be cool). So - maybe nix Seoni and put in Ezren (he can do evoke spells almost as well). An INT based caster might be useful for figuring out technology puzzles.
Edit Edit - was editing and Set spotted my all female team. Ninja'd. Do I have to add Reiko now? Or was she already there to round out my Fox Force Five?
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My guesses, and I like some of the guesses Samas had above...
Lirianne -
Amiri -
Seoni -
Lini -
Ooh, all ladies team. I like it! (Done before in Carrion Crown, IIRC, but still cool. Dare we attempt an all gentleman team, at some point?)
Nature might very much abhor a vacuum...cleaner,
Ha!
Edit Edit - was editing and Set spotted my all female team. Ninja'd. Do I have to add Reiko now? Or was she already there to round out my Fox Force Five?
Reiko is officially already on every team. Even the ones that existed before there was a ninja class. She's that good.
But we can't have an all-Reiko team, because all the AP covers would just be a bunch of dead stabbinated monsters lying around and some bloody footprints going off into the shadows...
Edit, Edit, Edit. You will not out-ninja me with your edits while I'm talking about Reiko!
We've showed the first cover for Iron Gods, so I guess the secret is out at least somewhere...
The Iron Gods iconics are:
Gunslinger
Druid
Alchemist
Barbarian
Nice lineup. Forgot about the Alchemist - that sounds like a really good fit. Now, I have to go find that cover...(I just bought the Numeria product, so I figured at least Amiri would be a lock...).
My choices would be Amiri, Lirianne, Damiel, and Lini(or Seoni).
Great Guesses! Go buy a lottery ticket!