RPG Superstar 2009 Top 4
|
Lesson Learned: Don't playtest against a Roper.
Test Summary: the original intent of the test was to run a party of six 9th level PCs through a few tough encounters (Roper, pair of Bebiliths, pair of Aranea Slayer 5's, and a Drow contingent of 1 Warpriest, 2 Swashbucklers, and 1 Arcanist) - encounters drawn from the 3.0 module City of the Spider Queen. Had hoped to get a sense of class performance and mechanical ingenuity when things got tough. We ended up with a team of 4, and ran the same mock battle against a Roper three times, because that thing wrecked the group two out of three times, and the PCs wanted revenge.
The PCs:
Brawler: actually a Brawler 8 / Rogue 1 for the trapfinding, sneak attack, and class skill suite. Concept was to use Bullrush-based feats to knock foes into the Arcanist's Web or Wall of Fire, and flank with the bloodrager. In the three simulated combats, we had some of the following observations:
- Used as a scout, we found that Uncanny Dodge was sorely missed. This character got jumped by the Roper on the second and third playthrough which wrecked his strength - delegating him to a mostly ineffective ranged combatant role.
- In the first combat, he flanked-flurried for some solid damage (helped by the warpriest's destruction blessing). The way he played with the Martial Maneuvers ability was pretty interesting. The Player wanted to achieve a goal, and knew there were feats available to accomplish that goal, but ended up being thwarted by thinking about it in that order. Examples: "That thing has a ton of attacks, but aren't there feats where if I move there's a miss chance with each attack?" Knowing that there were, we looked up Wind Stance and Lightning Stance. Unfortunately, Dex was too low, so that plan was thwarted. Later: "Hey, isn't there a feat where I can get +4 to hit when I'm flanking instead of +2?" Um, sure, that sounds like a feat we've all seen somewhere before. But in the moment, none of us could remember its name nor its location in the books. So, no extra flanking either. We ended up discussing whether something like the Inquisitor's Judgment ability would have a better "flow" for the way the player thought about running this character. One round, for example, he might grab a bonus to AC... the next, as a swift action he might switch to an attack bonus, or save bonus, or damage bonus... and so on. It was an interesting thought experiment. Despite having a limitless wealth of feats, he was thwarted by not finding the one that would help him in the moment.
- Wearing a chain shirt allowed for the Brawling armor property, something that has otherwise been off-limits for monk characters due to the armor restrictions. This helped out quite a bit... does this become a must-have armor property for this character class?
- The player definitely had fun with this character when able to be effective - which is not an indictment of the character class so much as it is the Roper. That thing is deadly.
Arcanist: Elf Arcanist (Elemental Air) 9. Important feats included Intensify Spell, Reach Spell, and Toppling Spell. Prepared Toppling Magic Missile, Reach Vampiric Touch, Reach Intensified Shocking Grasp among others. Basically useless against the Roper, except to Haste the party. The Roper's unusually high (27) SR proved unbeatable even with a +15 for Greater Spell Penetration and being an elf. Just bad rolls, and a tough opponent. Player still wanted to try the character out on other non-Roper enemies.
Bloodrager: Elf Bloodrager (Celestial) 9. Concepted as a Champion of Gwynharwyf - a Two Weapon Fighting whirling berserker that could fly and deal extra holy damage. Observations include:
- Player found the ability to cast spells only during bloodrage overly limiting. There was no pre-combat prep. Those rounds of rage are precious, and spending one to do things other than deal damage felt wasteful. However, that said this character chose well with her Blur spell, which negated many more of the roper's strand attacks than 20% due to good rolling.
- Overall, the player felt that she achieved the character concept quite well with this class, bloodline, and feat choices. Happy to play it further.
- A suggestion for consideration: allow the class to cast a number of spells as free actions as the character enters the rage, with the duration of those spells set by the length of time spent in the rage. Helps the action economy for this class and limits the duration of the spells to just the immediate fight - making them easier to track.
Warpriest: Dwarf Warpriest (War, Destruction) 9. We were going to have a Shaman, but then didn't. So this warpriest character struggled to find his role. A Greatsword-wielding, Vital Striking, Channel-Smiting heavy armor dude, you'd think he would hit for big damage. The problem was people had some notions about what his role was supposed to be - he needed to buff to start, get a couple hits in but be available for assistance during and after the fight. None of this worked as intended.
- His pre-combat buff: one PC (monk or barbarian) got +4 damage. Then Prayer on the party (not affecting the roper due to SR) - Clarification needed: If he had touched the arcanist with this Destruction blessing, would the Arcanist get this damage bonus on spell damage?
- His available healing was of no use against the strength-damaging strands, so PCs were getting damaged beyond what any buff spell would overcome, and his 3d6 bursts were not getting the job done.
- By the time he was able to wade into combat, the STR damage had already neutralized most of the combat threat from the other party members. Got in one or two hits before getting STR-damaged himself.
- After the one Roper fight the party survived, he didn't even have the available 4th level spell for Restoration - and therefore the party spent days recovering from this encounter, slowly using Lesser Restoration to cure.
- The Player wished he could have "rider" effects with Channel Energy... much like how Lay on Hands is also a vehicle for Mercies, could Channel Energy be a vehicle for the warpriest's prepared touch spells? What if you could cast Bull's Strength and expend a channel to affect all allies within 30 feet for a shortened amount of time? Or, for that matter, a Lesser Restoration or Remove Blindness?
Will start up this playtest again soon, hopefully with a Shaman and a Skald, and will move on to some other encounters.
You can cast spells outside of a Bloodrage.
Spells are normally cast outside of rages, the Bloodrage Casting feature just lets you cast within it.
Good feedback though!
You can cast spells outside of a Bloodrage.
Spells are normally cast outside of rages, the Bloodrage Casting feature just lets you cast within it.
Good feedback though!
Thanks, then some additional feedback would be that this aspect was unclear.
Its mentioned by the devs in the thread for the Bloodrager, but it'd be great if they put it in the text itself. Clarity is never a bad thing =)
Thanks for the playtest feedback!
• For the brawler, do you think it would help if the player were more familiar with the available feats, or created a list of common go-to feats to use for various circumstances? Rob McCreary had a similar list for his summoner, in that he noted special senses (like blindsense) or other abilities in creatures he could summon with his summon monster spell-like abilities, so he could think, "we're fighting an invisible creature, what abilities can I draw on, aha blindsense, dire bat, I summon a dire bat!"
• Yeah, ropers are jerks.
• I've pointed Stephen (designer of the bloodrager) at this thread to be sure he sees it. As Scavion said, a bloodrager can cast bloodrager spells while in a bloodrage (see the blood casting ability).
• Likewise, I'll point Jason at the warpriest comments, as that class is primarily his design. I've already been talking to Stephen about ways to have some synergy with the various warpriest abilities, much like how you suggest for how paladin LOH and mercies are linked.
You can cast spells outside of a Bloodrage.
Spells are normally cast outside of rages, the Bloodrage Casting feature just lets you cast within it.
Was that a specific clarification from Paizo? I was reading it as only being able to cast while in bloodrage as well. The 3rd paragraph in the Spells description says, "The bloodrager goes not need to prepare these spells in advance; he can cast them at any point during a bloodrage (as per his blood casting ability), assuming he hasn't yet used up his spells per day for that level." (emphasis mine)
That's a pretty narrow writing of when the class spells can be cast. If the intent is for the spells to be usable any time, then I think that section would need a rewrite.
Yea, the text does imply that it's only during bloodrage, but it's intended to be at any point.
Here you go.
|
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 4
|
Thanks for the playtest feedback!
• For the brawler, do you think it would help if the player were more familiar with the available feats, or created a list of common go-to feats to use for various circumstances? Rob McCreary had a similar list for his summoner, in that he noted special senses (like blindsense) or other abilities in creatures he could summon with his summon monster spell-like abilities, so he could think, "we're fighting an invisible creature, what abilities can I draw on, aha blindsense, dire bat, I summon a dire bat!"
Sean, thanks for checking in. I think that as a post-mortem to this encounter, the Brawler player is doing exactly this. Coming in, I think he looked at some assorted style and maneuver-based feats that worked to build on his foundation feats (Improved Bull Rush, Combat Reflexes, Stunning Fist, Combat Expertise) with the intent of mixing up the Ki Throw chain, Dragon Style chain, and Tiger Style chain but that might have been as far ahead as the pre-planning went. Next time we get together I have no doubt he'll know exactly where to find that flanking feat.
Thanks for the playtest feedback!
• For the brawler, do you think it would help if the player were more familiar with the available feats, or created a list of common go-to feats to use for various circumstances? Rob McCreary had a similar list for his summoner, in that he noted special senses (like blindsense) or other abilities in creatures he could summon with his summon monster spell-like abilities, so he could think, "we're fighting an invisible creature, what abilities can I draw on, aha blindsense, dire bat, I summon a dire bat!"
Sean, thanks for checking in. I think that as a post-mortem to this encounter, the Brawler player is doing exactly this. Coming in, I think he looked at some assorted style and maneuver-based feats that worked to build on his foundation feats (Improved Bull Rush, Combat Reflexes, Stunning Fist, Combat Expertise) with the intent of mixing up the Ki Throw chain, Dragon Style chain, and Tiger Style chain but that might have been as far ahead as the pre-planning went. Next time we get together I have no doubt he'll know exactly where to find that flanking feat.
Keep in mind he also counts as a monk and fighter for the purposes of prereqs. That is VERY VERY handy. Dip style feats and grab the chains with Martial Maneuvers =)