Any time I have a new player who has never RPG'd before, I always suggest the fighter. It is the most straight-forward and simplest to play. It at least gives you taste of the game. They're easy to build for higher levels, like up to 8.
The website is helpful to starting...
Just scroll down to "Generating a Character"
Alright then... haha, then well, sounds like they need some firepower...I'd go with the next non-meat shield simple character, a Wizard.
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Are you the only first time player? Is there a reason he's starting at level eight? I find it much easier for new players to start at level 1.
Oh brother. A TPK DM. *Sigh* Sorry you went through that.
Ugh. What a horrible first experience.
Please try not to let that put you off the game.
I, for one, would not consider one hour enough time to pick a first character without guidance. And that party balance was, well, way off for a GM springing a trap-laden room on the group.
While I cannot offer anything truly useful at this point, I would again say try not to let that put you off giving the game another try - when run well, it is a very fun system.
Good luck.
knock... knock
(whispered voice)
"Hey, open up! It's me, Dave!"
(voice from behind the door)
"Dave?"
"Yeah. Dave."
pause
"Dave's not here!"
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knock... knock
(whispered voice)
"Hey, open up! It's me, Dave!"(voice from behind the door)
"Dave?""Yeah. Dave."
pause
"Dave's not here!"
You win one Interwebz!
@OP: Wow, horrible intro to the game... sadly some DMs play that way and you were thrown in way over your head from the get go.
I would suggest read the PRD on this site and take your time learning the basics and then look over the character classes and pick something you feel comfortable running. And as others have said, don't get discouraged, could have been a bad session...could be a bad DM, or could just be an inexperienced group. Use it as a learning experience and go forward!
My very first D&D experience was back in old AD&D days, and I joined my friends in a game in a group with a Fighter, Thief, Magic User(me) and a Ranger I believe, and we ended up in the desert and ran out of water and had no Cleric to cast create water... so that turned into an unpleasant first game experience :P But here I am playing some 32 or so years later.
I, too, am very sorry you had such an experience your first time. And honestly, by those two accounts (starting a player at level 8 and TPKing a party in the first room, in a means inconsistent with their classes being able to deal with the threat) coupled with asking you to create a level EIGHT character by borrowing the book for an HOUR? Your friend is definitely in the running for worst GM ever. You can't have a compelling narrative and compelling adventure if everyone dies instantly at every turn.
Honestly, my vote is never play with that guy again, but DO play the game again in a different group. There are all different kinds of GMs, but the GM who kills an entire party by a means they didn't have a chance in and could not avoid -- is one of the worst types.
Also avoid:
the "No you can't do that GM"
the "Railroad GM"
and the "Play your character for you GM"
Oh man. One hour of skimming the rulebook is absolutely not enough time to make a level 8 character! It's really difficult to start out at that mid level range when you've had absolutely no experience with tabletop RPGs before. It's much better to start at level one with a simple character and gradually work your way up to the more complicated stuff as you get gradually get to grips with the system. Maybe this total party wipe (as worrying as it might seem) might be a good opportunity for the group to start over, and would therefore be a better environment for a noob such as yourself to be introduced to the game.
Even then, though, I would expect the DM to help guide you through some of the trickier aspects of character creation. I have been playing tabletop RPGs for about 15 years, and there's still a lot about Pathfinder that I don't fully understand.
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Pathfinder is not the easiest RPG to learn. Generally, it takes at least 3 hours to fully create a level 1 character, with the assistance of a DM.
Concerning the game, here we are in an RPG, not a computer game where characters are virtually immortal. Character do die.
It is a harsh way to start indeed, but if your DM gave good reasons why it happened it might be something to learn.
But your DM seems (at the best) to be a fan of "Learning from failure" method... which is not the best one, especially with beginners.
And it is quite difficult for a bunch of warriors to avoid traps...
...And it is quite difficult for a bunch of warriors to avoid traps...
That is true, unless you have Trap Wrecker. I have a great big clumsy orc in my current campaign with that feat, and it always makes me laugh when he steps in and "disarms" the trap.
The OP should definitely consider that option if your DM allows orcs. Because it's obviously going to mess with a jerk DM who likes to throw TPK traps at a bunch of oafish fighters.
1) Continue reading the book and get a stack of character sheets, or just paper to scribble down a bunch of ideas.
2) Given the situation you are in, use this opportunity to make not one but several characters. There are popular favorites of course, but you should be experimenting with ideas of your own.
3) Get one of the people in your group to walk you through their character creation process. You might discover a rule you understood incorrectly or missed, or a method that helps you a bunch. Some people pick a class/race combo that appeals to their sense of fun, some people choose something they haven't had a chance played yet, some choose an old favorite to improve on a past experience.
4) Remember to have fun.
Probably don't recommend that a brand new player create a Bard Archaeologist/ Zen Archer Monk.
The best character types for beginners are fighters, rangers (starting from 1, they eventually gain spells), wizards, and maybe vanilla monks.
Definitely don't get caught up in archetypes and other things. Try to just use the Core Rulebook for starters.
The idea is that if the DM is going to be, looking from my DM style, an ass-hole to his players then the PCs need to find some sort of way to counter his ass-holery.
Fine. XD
So, since you are new, suggest this to one of the other Players. This DM style of "kill everyone" just downright pisses me off--Mostly because there isn't anything there. Oh, traps activate, everyone ~dies~, make new characters. It isn't "everyone is captured and must escape," it isn't "you fall through the floor and as you fall through a strange oily surface you awaken in a land of shadows," it is just "you died." What is this? Dark Souls? If so, then Poof, everyone is at the bondfire, time to go back to the stupid trap room of utter DM failure.
So, to OP, make your next character a Rogue 1/Cleric. Clerics get detect magic, and max out your wisdom score as high as you can get it. Get your armor as high as you can get it (probably go for heavy armor prof [feat 1] and Tower Shield Prof [feat 2]) and turtle lead the group at half-speed through any situation that seems dangerous, is potentially dangerous, or causes you any reason to suspect someone might put traps there.
Maintaining Detect Magic is a Standard each round, saying "I am actively looking for traps" means that you are entitled to make a D20+perception+trapfinding roll against any future traps, and when that roll is used you are entitled to another roll for future traps.
If you are maintaining Detect Magic then any magical traps within 60-ft of your vision are detected, meaning you know something is there, then after concentrating on it for 3 rounds you are see a clear outline of what is magical in nature.
If your DM tries to rule that you cannot maintain Detect Magic AND search for traps then he is full of crap. Here is why:
Intentionally searching for stimuli, such as looking for traps, is a move action.
Maintaining Detect Magic is a Standard Action.
This means you always sustain detect magic, look for traps, don't find any, walk forward as far as you could see and then as your move the next round look for more traps, and therefore everything that you can see has been "Searched for traps", and therefore if you didn't get your roll against traps that you could see then this guy is just a jerk.
I know if I was "dave", I would have all players get together for a character creation session to hopefully answer questions.Hey guys,
thanks for coming. So did you all enjoy dying last time? I know I enjoyed watching you all die. I liked it a lot. A really, really , really, really lot.
So, to ensure this happens again No classes that have trapfinding, detect magic is banned, and . . . uh, guys? What is the rope for? Why are you throwing one end over that oak? Oh. OH! Oh no!
*Dave was never heard from again.*
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How new a GM is Dave, I wonder? Do you know how long he's been playing?
Clearly long enough to know that he wants the PCs at 8th level, but also not long enough to know that it's no fun totally wiping the party in the first few seconds of a game.
Maybe you could direct Dave to us, and we can help straighten him out and find out what he wants from his players.
The idea is that if the DM is going to be, looking from my DM style, an ass-hole to his players then the PCs need to find some sort of way to counter his ass-holery.
Fine. XD
So, since you are new, suggest this to one of the other Players. This DM style of "kill everyone" just downright pisses me off--Mostly because there isn't anything there. Oh, traps activate, everyone ~dies~, make new characters. It isn't "everyone is captured and must escape," it isn't "you fall through the floor and as you fall through a strange oily surface you awaken in a land of shadows," it is just "you died." What is this? Dark Souls? If so, then Poof, everyone is at the bondfire, time to go back to the stupid trap room of utter DM failure.
So, to OP, make your next character a Rogue 1/Cleric. Clerics get detect magic, and max out your wisdom score as high as you can get it. Get your armor as high as you can get it (probably go for heavy armor prof [feat 1] and Tower Shield Prof [feat 2]) and turtle lead the group at half-speed through any situation that seems dangerous, is potentially dangerous, or causes you any reason to suspect someone might put traps there.
Maintaining Detect Magic is a Standard each round, saying "I am actively looking for traps" means that you are entitled to make a D20+perception+trapfinding roll against any future traps, and when that roll is used you are entitled to another roll for future traps.
If you are maintaining Detect Magic then any magical traps within 60-ft of your vision are detected, meaning you know something is there, then after concentrating on it for 3 rounds you are see a clear outline...
I'm not sure that you're understanding any of this. The OP did not even finish a chapter of the Player's Guide. He most likely doesn't understand the majority of what you're telling him to do.
Besides, insulting the friend that is attempting to get him involved in an RPG is not the best way to keep him around. You may disagree with the type of DM that he is, but what you're saying is uncalled for.
The idea is that if the DM is going to be, looking from my DM style, an ass-hole to his players then the PCs need to find some sort of way to counter his ass-holery.
Fine. XD
So, since you are new, suggest this to one of the other Players. This DM style of "kill everyone" just downright pisses me off--Mostly because there isn't anything there. Oh, traps activate, everyone ~dies~, make new characters. It isn't "everyone is captured and must escape," it isn't "you fall through the floor and as you fall through a strange oily surface you awaken in a land of shadows," it is just "you died." What is this? Dark Souls? If so, then Poof, everyone is at the bondfire, time to go back to the stupid trap room of utter DM failure.
So, to OP, make your next character a Rogue 1/Cleric. Clerics get detect magic, and max out your wisdom score as high as you can get it. Get your armor as high as you can get it (probably go for heavy armor prof [feat 1] and Tower Shield Prof [feat 2]) and turtle lead the group at half-speed through any situation that seems dangerous, is potentially dangerous, or causes you any reason to suspect someone might put traps there.
Maintaining Detect Magic is a Standard each round, saying "I am actively looking for traps" means that you are entitled to make a D20+perception+trapfinding roll against any future traps, and when that roll is used you are entitled to another roll for future traps.
If you are maintaining Detect Magic then any magical traps within 60-ft of your vision are detected, meaning you know something is there, then after concentrating on it for 3 rounds you are see a clear outline...
I'm not sure that you're understanding any of this. The OP did not even finish a chapter of the Player's Guide. He most likely doesn't understand the majority of what you're telling him to do.
Besides, insulting the friend that is attempting to get him involved in an RPG is not the best way to keep him around. You may disagree with the...
This is why I wish we could get Dave the GM on here. It's hard telling a new player exactly what to do to help him survive a killer GM when we can't really get to the heart of what the GM wants.
Speaking of Taku Ooka Nin, my wife suggests you borrow his aasimar/werewolf/dragon disciple sorcerer from this thread.
That'll teach Dave. Teach 'im good.
The idea is that if the DM is going to be, looking from my DM style, an ass-hole to his players then the PCs need to find some sort of way to counter his ass-holery.
Fine. XD
So, since you are new, suggest this to one of the other Players. This DM style of "kill everyone" just downright pisses me off--Mostly because there isn't anything there. Oh, traps activate, everyone ~dies~, make new characters. It isn't "everyone is captured and must escape," it isn't "you fall through the floor and as you fall through a strange oily surface you awaken in a land of shadows," it is just "you died." What is this? Dark Souls? If so, then Poof, everyone is at the bondfire, time to go back to the stupid trap room of utter DM failure.
So, to OP, make your next character a Rogue 1/Cleric. Clerics get detect magic, and max out your wisdom score as high as you can get it. Get your armor as high as you can get it (probably go for heavy armor prof [feat 1] and Tower Shield Prof [feat 2]) and turtle lead the group at half-speed through any situation that seems dangerous, is potentially dangerous, or causes you any reason to suspect someone might put traps there.
Maintaining Detect Magic is a Standard each round, saying "I am actively looking for traps" means that you are entitled to make a D20+perception+trapfinding roll against any future traps, and when that roll is used you are entitled to another roll for future traps.
If you are maintaining Detect Magic then any magical traps within 60-ft of your vision are detected, meaning you know something is there, then after concentrating on it for 3 rounds you are see a clear outline...
I'm not sure that you're understanding any of this. The OP did not even finish a chapter of the Player's Guide. He most likely doesn't understand the majority of what you're telling him to do.
Besides, insulting the friend that is attempting to get him involved in an RPG is not the best way to keep him around. You may disagree with the...
"Hey dude, come join my game--you'll have TONS of fun!-- *immediately kills party*
Yup, totally a game I'd come back to. I don't even think I'd contact them telling them that I'm not coming back, I'd just play Planetside 2, or Path of Exile, or any of the other multitude of games.It is just something you don't do. You don't bring someone into an RPG system and immediately murder their characters since all this does is make them not want to come back.
I had one of these tards when I was learning Warhammer 40K: Dark Heresy, and after the party flat out died twice in a row on consecutive meetings I didn't come back: instead I just logged into Wow and played something that was fun. I still, to this day, have a bad taste in my mouth for Warhammer 40K: Dark Heresy.
No, these DMs shouldn't be DMing. You can argue that as much as you want, but unless the DM SPECIFICALLY tells everyone that he is building dungeons and traps with the specific intent to wipe the party ASAP then no, not allowed in my book. It is just a sign of a sadist.
Why did it have to ~kill~ the party, anyway? Why not just they all get knocked unconscious, and wake up dragged somewhere and missing some gold?
The possibilities are endless as to what the DM could have done, but so far he just sounds like the worst type of DM that turns people OFF of
roleplaying systems instead of encouraging them to play them.
There is a difference between having well built encounters that challenge the party, and having a big trap encounter of death that instantly kills everyone.
Stop writing your own homebrews, go buy/download/"acquire" Scenarios/Modules/Adventure Paths, and play them, learn from them, and when you have realized that the whole point is to provide a challenge while not killing everyone THEN make homebrews.
Seriously.
No, seriously.
There isn't an excuse unless it was a complete accident or you got a strange amount of Natural 20s, or the party a strange amount of Natural 1s.
You can disagree with me if you want, I encourage it, actually, since it means there can be a discussion, but DMs whose whole goal just boils down to "kill everyone" are not DMs: They are bullies who figured out that DMing is like playing poker and knowing all of the other players cards while being able to pick your own. You WILL win every time if that is your goal.
Like the one time my 3.5 group ran into a pack of "level appropriate" characters who were all built with base classes from the Book of the Nine Swords VS our Core classes.
The Players should always have a Chance to win, and it should always be at or above 50% (such as CR APL+4, the highest Paizo recommends is APL+3, since this stacks the odds in the favor of the PCs).
It speaks volumes that the OP was bothered enough by dying instantly to come to the forums to ask for advice. This should NEVER be the case, damn-it! It makes me angry simply because I am empathizing with them, and how I'd be going home and just making a character to break that crap while working on my own homebrew or reading up on an AP to offer to the group to play INSTEAD of this DM's game.
It makes me doubly angry because I don't want OP to just get that same bad taste in his mouth and leave a great system behind forever.
Speaking of Taku Ooka Nin, my wife suggests you borrow his aasimar/werewolf/dragon disciple sorcerer from this thread.
That'll teach Dave. Teach 'im good.
You will be the celestial to command all celestials, but that still wont save you from MAGICAL TRAPS OF DOOM. XD
I like you, Taku OOka Nin. No matter how much we tease you about that ditch-diggin' werewolf of yours, you keep taking it like a champ!
Seriously, though, FirstTimePlayer, maybe you should ask Dave the GM what he wants out of his party, and give him a nudge to come get some advice from the forums. (Nicely, though - we don't want him becoming resentful.)
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I like you, Taku OOka Nin. No matter how much we tease you about that ditch-diggin' werewolf of yours, you keep taking it like a champ!
Well, to be honest I did bring that up and not dig the trench again, I instead just made a barrier of flammable stuff and had a torch ready to light it all.
Teasing each other is part of how we communicate, we tease our peers to help them grow, and the very act of doing so lets me know you're thinking of me. Hehe. It means I am leaving an impression where ever I go, and other people are reacting to it in hopefully comical ways. Comedy relieves stress, and in our lives, in our age, we can use all the stress relief we can get.
:)
I like you, Taku OOka Nin. No matter how much we tease you about that ditch-diggin' werewolf of yours, you keep taking it like a champ!Well, to be honest I did bring that up and not dig the trench again, I instead just made a barrier of flammable stuff and had a torch ready to light it all.
Teasing each other is part of how we communicate, we tease our peers to help them grow, and the very act of doing so lets me know you're thinking of me. Hehe. It means I am leaving an impression where ever I go, and other people are reacting to it in hopefully comical ways. Comedy relieves stress, and in our lives, in our age, we can use all the stress relief we can get.
:)
Too true.
@ Firsttimeplayer: I don't know if you're still tracking this thread, but if you are, have a conversation with Dave. He doesn't have to tell you his entire game plan, but he as GM should give you some hints as to what his game is about and what you should think about while making your next character. A killer game filled with angry traps and brutal encounters will inspire a much different character creation then say, a Weis-Hickman-esque high fantasy romp.
Also Firsttime, making a character is really just a lot of numbers when you're first learning. As Ciaran said upthread get out lots of paper and make up a bunch of stat arrays (sets of abilities such as Str, Int) and see what you can make out of them. Even though your game is for eighth level, try making a bunch of level 1's until you feel you've got the hang of it.
As for your first game out; we've all been there. Believe me. My first adventures were playing a high-level illusionist in AD&D to give my brother help running a module - Queen of the Demonweb pits. I died 3 times and when we finally finished the adventure we did it wrong and ruined the magical artifact sword anyway.
We've played under killer GMs, angry GMs, GMs who were overly laid back... they are people after all and their personality translates to how they run the game. Dave may not know what he's doing or maybe he does; either way believe me when I say that's not the only way to play.
Finally, if you want to learn the game as a whole, there's youtube videos with basic tutorials and game sessions. There's also the PRD to read (once you begin to understand what you're looking at) and of course there's always people on the boards.
You might even head out, if you're really interested, to your local games store or hobby shop. There may be a Pathfinder Society game scheduled. If so you might watch or even join in. PFS is a standardized form of Pathfinder that has rigid rules for character creation, gameplay and mechanics, so the folks participating can have consistency in any game they jump into. It's a great way to learn the basics through doing.
Post up some numbers, if you're willing, and show off a character or two. You'll find most everyone on these boards both supportive and encouraging. You might even get some ideas that you hadn't thought of before. Hopefully you'll keep trying!
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