Read Magic is not required. If you don't use read magic you must spend 1 full round deciphering the scroll which requires a spellcraft check. The DC of this spellcraft check is 20+spell level. A spell cast from a scroll has the lowest save DC possible based on the minimum ability score required to cast the spell. For example, a level 1 spell cast from a scroll has a save DC of 11.
Base DC = 10
Mininmum ability score required to cast = 11 (+0)
Spell Level = 1(+1)
Final Save DC = 11
If the spell is on the class spell list, you have sufficient caster level to cast it and have a high enough ability score (10+ spell lvl) then you can cast it without further trouble. If you lack the caster level THEN you do a caster level check (1d20+your caster level) against a DC of the scroll's caster level +1.
This is what is required to cast the scroll. You still need to fulfill the prerequisite of deciphering the scroll.
Missed a bit. The scroll is arcane or divine, and you must be the same, or you need to UMD it (Emulate a Class Feature DC 20). Important for Bards, Witches, and others with mixed spell lists.
/cevah
I'm sure there's probably a thread on this somewhere, but what about defensively casting from a scroll? What modifier do you use? Especially if you're a non-caster who's UMDing it?
Right... but what modifier do you use?
Missed a bit. The scroll is arcane or divine, and you must be the same, or you need to UMD it (Emulate a Class Feature DC 20). Important for Bards, Witches, and others with mixed spell lists.
/cevah
I am pretty sure you don't have to emulate a class feature in order to use a scroll - just the Use a Scroll check (and, if you don't have a high enough ability score for the spell, the Emulate an Ability Score check).
Otherwise Use Magic Device would specify that you have to emulate a class feature like it specifies that you have to emulate an ability score when using a scroll.
Problem is that arcane casters cannot cast divine scrolls per scroll casting rules. So I ask, how does this work?
- Scroll of Reincarnate, Druid 4th level spell- Caster is Witch with Reincarnate as a 5th level spell
- Divine scroll, arcane caster
As a 1st level Witch with UMD at 16, I have Int 14, so I can cast 4th levels spells stat wise, but not 5th. I have the stat mod, the spell on the list, and insufficient caster level. By emulating the class feature "divine caster" (DC 20, need 4+), it should then be castable with a caster level check (DC 8, need 7+) rather than a UMD caster level check (DC 27, need 11+). [Making it 85%*70%=59.5% vs. 50% to be successful.]
/cevah
How did you get a UMD of 16 at 1st level?
I took 6 levels of Ninja first. See my profile. :-)
/cevah
No, the scroll rules specifically state that the magic 'type' requirement - divine or arcane - can't be bypassed and must be met.
Missed a bit. The scroll is arcane or divine, and you must be the same, or you need to UMD it (Emulate a Class Feature DC 20). Important for Bards, Witches, and others with mixed spell lists.
/cevah
I am pretty sure you don't have to emulate a class feature in order to use a scroll - just the Use a Scroll check (and, if you don't have a high enough ability score for the spell, the Emulate an Ability Score check).
Otherwise Use Magic Device would specify that you have to emulate a class feature like it specifies that you have to emulate an ability score when using a scroll.
Problem is that arcane casters cannot cast divine scrolls per scroll casting rules. So I ask, how does this work?
- Scroll of Reincarnate, Druid 4th level spell
- Caster is Witch with Reincarnate as a 5th level spell
- Divine scroll, arcane casterAs a 1st level Witch with UMD at 16, I have Int 14, so I can cast 4th levels spells stat wise, but not 5th. I have the stat mod, the spell on the list, and insufficient caster level. By emulating the class feature "divine caster" (DC 20, need 4+), it should then be castable with a caster level check (DC 8, need 7+) rather than a UMD caster level check (DC 27, need 11+). [Making it 85%*70%=59.5% vs. 50% to be successful.]
/cevah
You wouldn't emulate the class feature "divine caster" (that's not even a class feature), you would simply "activate the scroll (DC 20 + caster level)". You would also need to have a WIS of at least 14 (or a successful UMD check) since that's the minimum required attribute.
Problem is that arcane casters cannot cast divine scrolls per scroll casting rules. So I ask, how does this work?
- Scroll of Reincarnate, Druid 4th level spell
- Caster is Witch with Reincarnate as a 5th level spell
- Divine scroll, arcane casterThe scroll is divine, the caster isn't - so you can use Use Magic Device with a DC of 20 + the caster level of the scroll. Also, if the Witch doesn't have either a 14 Wisdom or a 15 intelligence (to match the ability score requirement) there would be a separate DC 29 Use Magic Device check to emulate the ability score
You don't emulate being a specific type of caster for scrolls - ever.
You can't cast a 4th level Druid spell with a 15 INT (Witch spells don't matter since it's not an Arcane scroll). You'd need a 14 WIS.
You wouldn't emulate the class feature "divine caster" (that's not even a class feature), you would simply "activate the scroll (DC 20 + caster level)". You would also need to have a WIS of at least 14 (or a successful UMD check) since that's the minimum required attribute.
I would be emulating the feature "Spells" of a Druid which happend to be of "divine" type. [Spells - A druid casts divine spells....]
The scroll is divine, the caster isn't - so you can use Use Magic Device with a DC of 20 + the caster level of the scroll. Also, if the Witch doesn't have either a 14 Wisdom or a 15 intelligence (to match the ability score requirement) there would be a separate DC 29 Use Magic Device check to emulate the ability score
If I UMD the scroll as a non-caster, I need 14 Wis. Just because I am a Int caster with it as a 5th level spell, does not mean I need a 15 Int to cast a 4th level scroll.
New question: Which stat is the casting stat of a scroll?
Imaging: Scroll of Shield written by a Wisard. Does a Sorcerer need Int 11 or Cha 11 to cast it?
/cevah
Take an example of a second level wizard trying to cast bulls strength from a scroll.
The DC for casting the spell would be caster level for the scroll +1 = 4.
The wizards caster level is 2 so he would need to roll a 2 in order to succeed.A sorcerer on the other hand only get access to 2nd lvl spells at sorceror lvl 4, so a third lvl sorcerer could cast the spell from the scroll without having to roll because even on a 1 they would succeed.
Actually, a Sorcerer doesn't even need a caster level check, since he is CL 3 and the scroll is CL 3.
/cevah
Well... If you are a Sorcerer casting an Arcane spell, you would be using your Charisma, regardless if the scroll was scribed by a Wizard, since the spell is Arcane and on your spell list.
If you were a Witch casting a Divine scroll, you would use the attribute of the class you are trying to emulate when you try to use the scroll. This is implied by the "Emulate an Ability Score" section:
Your effective ability score (appropriate to the class you're emulating when you try to cast the spell from the scroll)...
Guess that means Wis/Cha for Divine, and Cha/Int for Arcane.
Wis - Cleric, Druid, Inquisitor, Ranger
Chr - Bard, Oracle, Paladin, Sorcerer, Summoner
Int - Alchemist, Magus, Witch, Wizard
Are there any Int Divine casters or Wis Arcane casters? Feat or Trait or Archetype? What about other stats? I know you can get Con Arcane via Witch(Scarred Witch Doctor).
/cevah
Empyreal bloodline sorcerers use Wisdom as their casting stat, so there's that. At my table, though, I would not allow arbitrary emulation of a rare wildblooded bloodline for the purpose of using Wisdom to cast a spell from a scroll written by a regular old wizard, especially if the PC had no idea what an empyreal bloodline sorcerer was.
Mostly wondering about rogues UMDing a scroll on the defensive. Since I posted this, I've seen a couple of threads. But so far haven't seen a definitive answer.
You would never have to make a level-check for a DC less than your level+2. It would be automatic.Since you don't automatically fail on a natural 1 on anything else than attack rolls and saving throws, you are actually right by RAW.
It would however only apply to sorcerers, because they are the only ones that would suceed on a 1.
Take an example of a second level wizard trying to cast bulls strength from a scroll.
The DC for casting the spell would be caster level for the scroll +1 = 4.
The wizards caster level is 2 so he would need to roll a 2 in order to succeed.A sorcerer on the other hand only get access to 2nd lvl spells at sorceror lvl 4, so a third lvl sorcerer could cast the spell from the scroll without having to roll because even on a 1 they would succeed.
Caster level checks to use scrolls auto fail on a die roll of 1.
Caster level checks to use scrolls auto fail on a die roll of 1.
According to the rules, the Wisdom check to avoid mishap always fails on a 1. But I don't see where it says that the caster check always fails on a 1.
Did I miss something?