Why?
Is it any harder to justify than the guy who gets so angry he becomes fireproof and can suddenly see in absolute darkness?
I don't think they are a class that is supposed to have no magic or mysticism, and I think the very idea of idea of such a class is, as I have already stated, thoroughly insane. Unless you want to tie them into using a magic cestus at high levels, they need magical fists or something that might as well be magical fists. What's hard to justify is a bare-knuckled brawler punching fire elementals.If your concept is a non-magical dragon puncher, your concept is as unworkable as the character who defeats dragons by making high quality wagon wheels.I disagree. Now, without using any magic is extremely difficult, but magic becomes a necessity at high levels. HOWEVER a class that is supposed to have no magic or mysticism having magical fists inherently through his non-mystic ways is hard to justify.
Deadly with their fists, brawlers eschew using the fighter’s heavy armor and the monk’s mysticism, focusing instead on perfecting many styles of brutal unarmed combat. Versatile, agile, and able to adapt to most enemy attacks, a brawler’s body is a powerful weapon.
It eschews the monk's mysticism, yet retains 'magical' punches.
If you think this is fine, then I have this magnificent all electric car that runs off gasoline for you. Amazing deal, since it's electric, you don't need to go to the gas station (except when you want to drive the car)!
Why?
Is it any harder to justify than the guy who gets so angry he becomes fireproof and can suddenly see in absolute darkness?
It's not, if you accept that you are not dealing with a normal person.
It's not, if you accept that you are not dealing with a normal person.Why?
Is it any harder to justify than the guy who gets so angry he becomes fireproof and can suddenly see in absolute darkness?
I don't think anybody said they wanted the Brawler to be a normal person.
Just that they wanted all of his abilities to be non-Supernatural (like those abilities I listed). Ex does not mean mundane, ordinary, whatever in this game.
In the real world they would be almost magical, but they're not here.
Even if the Brawler is like an unarmed cross between TV Hercules and Bruce Lee, I don't find it jarring to suggest that the ability to strike as though your fists were magic and to shatter stone is actually Supernatural, and not just quasi-extraordinary Pure Awesomeness. I can see a more limited ability, based around Penetrating Strike or something like it, that would be Extraordinary, but honestly, at that point, the class is going to have to fall back on weapons. If you are fine with Bruce Norris whipping out the cold iron morningstar to fight the Lich King, then no problem.
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Dwarf Monks can punch through stone and metal regularly, and thats just a favored class bonus for them. When they hit level 8 they can punch through stone with one punch to take away its hardness then follow up by just destroying its HP with each subsequent punch. Same with Steel or Iron, Mithral, and Adamantine. To put it into perspective a 7th level monk can flurry of blows on Adamantine the first round and destroy its HPs the next round.
Nothing supernatural here.
Ultimately I don't really mind. "Treated as magic" isn't a far cry from "as if they were magic" which is what we're arguing for.
Lead Designer
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In anticipation of a revised version of the playtest document going live, this thread is locked. A new thread will be created to discuss the revised version of the class. Please refrain from carrying over existing discussions to the new thread to avoid confusion.
Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer