Hi all, a quick question about these items:
So my question is - how important are these items to the overall game? Are they a nice-to-have for a bit of extra tactical diversity, or are they necessary for sometime later on in the AP? If they are necessary, I can seed them back in somewhere along the cavern path they will follow to reach the surface.
Nice to have, but not required. Although you can taunt them later that they're missing artifacts they could have had from step 1.
Also, the scales were supposed to be scattered in the rubble, not the spider IIRC. So in the midst of helping the NPCs is when they usually find them.
Yeah I know - I kind of missed all of that when I was running the actual meeting of the NPCs, and then realized that the scales were very early on in the piece (for some reason I had a brain lapse and was thinking they were further into the cavern system).
I might set up an above ground encounter where they find a couple of demons trying to eat them and getting zapped each time they attempt to pick them up.
Creative Director
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So... if folks want me to post the reason why you can't resurrect the dragon and why you might wanna keep the scales around... I can do so in a spoiler.
In fact, I assume that folks will want to know, so here ya go. Warning. Spoiler.
If you want to foreshadow this by letting the PCs learn that Terendelev is now undead, you can certainly have them hear rumors... but she's limited in scope to Iz, and is a CR 21 creature, so if you let the party know before the last adventure, chances are they'll be too distracted by this and want to go "save her" before they're high enough level to deal with her... it's best to let this be a surprise that they learn about in the final adventure.
I assumed it was something like that.
I assumed it was something like that.
As did I, though not quite in that way (I was thinking it had more to do with demonic energies interfering with the spell). Very cool though :)
And thanks for the information - I think I will try and seed the scales in throughout the caverns, as I don't think my player's should miss out on cool toys because I apparently can't read a simple sentence ;)
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Figured that was the point as well.
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My husband, who will be running this before I do (because while I want to run it, I also want to play it--this AP whole-heartedly embraces every cliche about fantasy that I LOVE), plans to upgrade all of the scales so that they don't feel like they fade in usefulness over time. I'm sure he'll be pleased as to how the scales tie in again later (as I am).
Exactly how large are the scales? I would think given Terendelev's age and statute they'd be buckler sized at least... certainly no smaller than a dinner plate?
REALLY excited about the spoiler btw as one of my players has decided to be the sole survivor (?) of a small cadre of Terendelev's offspring and inheritors being groomed for the Crusades when Kenebres falls. Should make for some dramatic moments.
I'm planning on having the scales all work for him and only for him, but only once each per day. They should serve as an excellent focus for his eventual pursuit of the Dragon Disciple prc.
(because while I want to run it, I also want to play it--this AP whole-heartedly embraces every cliche about fantasy that I LOVE)
Agree completely with this sentiment - don't know if I wanted to run it more or play it more... and I prefer to think of those 'cliches' as 'classic'. Dragons, demons, good vs. evil, epic battles on both a massive and a personal scale, fallen heroes and risen villains seeking redemption... and not a firearm in sight.
I've had zero interest in playing these games since being screwed over deliberately and maliciously by several GMs. The only person I trust enough not to screw over is far too busy to ever GM again. Besides, there's a certain joy to running games. It brings out your creative side.
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I prefer to think of those 'cliches' as 'classic'. Dragons, demons, good vs. evil, epic battles on both a massive and a personal scale, fallen heroes and risen villains seeking redemption... and not a firearm in sight.
You're not wrong. I think that we use cliche as a negative term, but it doesn't need to be. Cliches, the good ones, exist because they work, and appeal to us on deeper levels. They are ideas that we keep coming back to, time after time.
I've had zero interest in playing these games since being screwed over deliberately and maliciously by several GMs. The only person I trust enough not to screw over is far too busy to ever GM again. Besides, there's a certain joy to running games. It brings out your creative side.
My husband is the best GM I've ever played with in my many years, including some very, very talented ones I had the pleasure of playing with at GenCon's Iron DM events.
Of the three Pathfinder games we have going at the moment, my husband runs two, and I run one, and we both play in each other's games. I trust him as a GM far more than I even trust myself.
I've had zero interest in playing these games since being screwed over deliberately and maliciously by several GMs. The only person I trust enough not to screw over is far too busy to ever GM again. Besides, there's a certain joy to running games. It brings out your creative side.
I realize this is entirely off topic, but I want to address this first. In general, people who GM have different styles and most do not actively set out to "screw" the party. That said I have encountered one GM who sees it as his duty to run a "GM vs the Party" sort of event. It sounds like that is the sort of GM you have encountered. If you lived in my town I would recommend you seek out a new group, or clarify with these GMs how you felt about what happened. Feel free to PM me if this is something you want to talk about in detail.
As to the topic. My players are about halfway through Sword of Valor (book 2) and have used the scales a grand total of twice. Both times they had to think about it quite a bit. They have also not once used the Shards. I am tempted to jack up the scales, but most of my group are quite powerful for their level so they hardly need more ways to smash through encounters.
As it is, the mythic fights look to be the only times where a PC is truly in danger.
Another question that I have about the scales that might be a little off topic from the OP, but still fits the Thread Title:
In the item description box, it states that the CL is 19th level. Does this mean that when determining the strength of effect/duration/range of the spell we are to use the CL at 19? Or at the lowest possible CL to cast that spell (3rd?)
I'm asking as my players have actually used their scales a couple of times. One in particular stands out:
Also with a CL 19 it does mean that Resist Energy gives either Resist Cold 30 or Resist Electricity 30 for 190 minutes per casting.
As a side note, since the item description says that a scale can be used to cast spell X, does that mean that the wielder of the scale can actually cast the spell on another character? (Especially the Align Weapon Scale in low-level play?)
@Derfmancher: I had a GM deliberately kill my characters and find ways to make the deaths humiliating. The last death (which was the last game of the campaign in fact before he moved away) involved my character being raped by a dolphin and then drowning.
So you will excuse me if I have zero trust in allowing a GM to have power over my characters. Instead, I GM and strive to be fair and not screw over players (characters, sure, but even then I give multiple ways out and plenty of hints).
The trick in finding a good group to play with as a player, is to find people you can trust. Especially the GM. ^^
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The trick in finding a good group to play with as a player, is to find people you can trust. Especially the GM. ^^
GM's and wives - trust is the most important aspect of both relationships. Fortunately, I get a twofer ;)
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My groups are always looking for an excuse/reason to use their scales. Especially levitate. Any opportunity! The other's certainly have their utility role, and are sometimes forgotten (which is too bad, I wish I could get props for them to help remember, maybe I'll try to print something up for them).
The scales thus far have had varying level of usefulness. From very frequently to just about forgotten depending upon who is in possession of them.
I also forgot to give them out; and just had them found within the packs of a later "encounter" scavenged by the inhabitants of the tunnels.
My PCs are through the Sword of Valor now and only two of the scales get any use. The align weapon one is very powerful and not in scale vs the other scales. The resist scale gets used every day as its duration is 190 minutes but there haven't been many acid/cold attacks. And the levitation scale has been useful once or twice.
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I wonder if anyone has used the levitation scale for the cloud effect in an effective battle field tactic? Our group is only one session in, but the scale was instantly useful in collecting the pack from the ledge in the next encounter...
I wonder if the designers toyed with a few other scale power variants that didn't make it out of editorial? Just that I have a 6 player party and 6 unique scales would be cool.
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Creative Director
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I wonder if the designers toyed with a few other scale power variants that didn't make it out of editorial? Just that I have a 6 player party and 6 unique scales would be cool.
Nope. I knew going in that I had room for 4 scales, and that the AP assumes 4 players, both of which meant I wasn't going to bother trying to design 6 scales, since I knew we'd have to cut 2. Turns out, the schedule frowns upon doing unnecessary work! And I frown upon creating cool content that gets cut and then never sees the light of day! :-P
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Good point. Besides, the forums have been having fun creating alternative scales :D
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We haven't had much use for the scales (except for align weapon, but I stopped using it once I got a holy weapon) but our group has been keeping them around in the hopes of using them later. Might give one to my kobold kohort to take with him when he eventually leaves.
I really wish we could have gotten to see more of Terendelev before she got offed. Maybe I shoulda played that kobold paladin and worked under her as part of my backstory.