Can You Fly While Grappling an Enemy?

[Restores100HP]

If you have a fly speed (from a spell or wings) and a decent strength, can you grapple an enemy and then move your speed in flight?

[Daniel Turner Zen Archer]

It's a standard action to grapple without the greater grapple feat, and your fly speed would come into play when moving, so a standard action to grapple along with a move action as part of your flight speed is within the rules to be sure. That said, I think you'll have to attempt another combat maneuver in order to move the opponent with you, but don't quote me on that second part.

[Restores100HP]

I believe that it would take two rounds to move them, but I'm not sure.

Essentially, I'm running a Treesinger druid and my GM has allowed me to have the movement speeds for my Plant Wild Shape (that scale with the Beast Shape progression). I can turn into a medium-sized plant with grab and fly, and I'm curious if I could lift up an enemy after grabbing them.

[Daniel Turner Zen Archer]

Lift an enemy after grappling them would probably requite a second combat maneuver then. The distance you want to move them would determine what your second maneuver would be. If you just wanted to move them a short distance, you'd use Reposition. To knock em prone, bull rush or trip (not that you couldn't just drop the guy while flying and have him fall prone from the fall though), but since taking falling damage would knock you prone anyway unless he was wearing the magic item called boots of the cat, knocking him prone would be as simple as letting him go.

[partyrico]

If you would like to move a creature that you have grappled, you would have to make a grapple check as a standard action (or less with the right feats), after you have already grappled the enemy. If you succeed in moving the enemy with a grapple check, you would be able to fly up, even ending the grapple as a free action if you would like. If you want to grapple and then move, you need the grab ability. A creature with the grab ability can take a -20 on the grapple check to not be considered grappled, simply having that weapon tied up. So with grab a creature could grab and move a creature in the same round. The snatch feat also helps with this. Having greater grapple would also allow a standard action grapple, move action grapple+movement. Here is some of the relevant text:

Moving during a grapple:

This feat allows you to, as a standard action, you can attempt to grapple a foe, hindering his combat options. If you do not have Improved Grapple, grab, or a similar ability, attempting to grapple a foe provokes an attack of opportunity from the target of your maneuver. Humanoid creatures without two free hands attempting to grapple a foe take a –4 penalty on the combat maneuver roll. If successful, both you and the target gain the grappled condition (see the Appendices). If you successfully grapple a creature that is not adjacent to you, move that creature to an adjacent open space (if no space is available, your grapple fails). Although both creatures have the grappled condition, you can, as the creature that initiated the grapple, release the grapple as a free action, removing the condition from both you and the target. If you do not release the grapple, you must continue to make a check each round, as a standard action, to maintain the hold. If your target does not break the grapple, you get a +5 circumstance bonus on grapple checks made against the same target in subsequent rounds. Once you are grappling an opponent, a successful check allows you to continue grappling the foe, and also allows you to perform one of the following actions (as part of the standard action spent to maintain the grapple).

Grab ability:

Grab (Ex) If a creature with this special attack hits with the indicated attack (usually a claw or bite attack), it deals normal damage and attempts to start a grapple as a free action without provoking an attack of opportunity. Unless otherwise noted, grab can only be used against targets of a size equal to or smaller than the creature with this ability. If the creature can use grab on creatures of other sizes, it is noted in the creature's Special Attacks line. The creature has the option to conduct the grapple normally, or simply use the part of its body it used in the grab to hold the opponent. If it chooses to do the latter, it takes a –20 penalty on its CMB check to make and maintain the grapple, but does not gain the grappled condition itself. A successful hold does not deal any extra damage unless the creature also has the constrict special attack. If the creature does not constrict, each successful grapple check it makes during successive rounds automatically deals the damage indicated for the attack that established the hold. Otherwise, it deals constriction damage as well (the amount is given in the creature's descriptive text).

Snatch feat:

Benefits of this feat: The creature can start a grapple when it hits with a claw or bite attack, as though it had the grab ability. If it grapples a creature three or more sizes smaller, it squeezes each round for automatic bite or claw damage with a successful grapple check. A snatched opponent held in the creature's mouth is not allowed a Reflex save against the creature's breath weapon, if it has one.

Greater grapple feat:

Benefit of this feat: You receive a +2 bonus on checks made to grapple a foe. This bonus stacks with the bonus granted by Improved Grapple. Once you have grappled a creature, maintaining the grapple is a move action. This feat allows you to make two grapple checks each round (to move, harm, or pin your opponent), but you are not required to make two checks. You only need to succeed at one of these checks to maintain the grapple.

[partyrico]

Essentially, you can move a grappled enemy. Without greater grapple or rapid grappler (which allows a grapple attempt as a swift action) it would take two rounds yes. But there are ways to get around that. With grab or snatch, as described above, taking the penalty and using spring attack or more likely flyby attack, you could attack, grapple, and move upwards, even dropping the same round as a free action.

[Restores100HP]

Ok, so do I have this right?

Round 1: Standard Action - attack with grab. Successfully grapple.
Round 2: Standard Action - Maintain grapple and move 1/2 speed. Enemy gets free +4 CMB check to break loose (because it's dangerous).

What can I do as move actions?

[partyrico]

That is correct. Although you can do that without grab. Here are options:

Round 1: Standard Action - Grapple attempt. Success. If the grappler has grab, this changes a bit. If the grappler hits with an attack with grab, even as part of a full-attack, he can attempt a grapple attempt in addition to the normal attack if he hits with it.

The enemy's turn: The enemy has a few options. The grapplee can try to break out, this is a CMB or escape artist check (enemy's choice) against the grappler's CMD (not CMB). The grapplee can also attempt to become the grappler with his standard action. If the grapplee has a natural, light or one handed weapon, he can also attack or full attack with that instead. This receives a -2 to hit.

Round 2: Standard Action - Maintain grapple (You get an effective +7 on the grapple: a +5 for already maintaining the grapple and the enemy gets -4 to dex for being grappled). On success you can move both you can the creature 1/2 speed. Assuming that you rule carrying an enemy up is a hazardous location, the enemy gets a check immediately to break the grapple (this is VS CMD not CMB) with a +4 on the check. It isn't clear whether this happens before or after the movement, so its possible that the creature drags up the other and then it gets out in mid air.

The grappler can use move actions for anything requiring a move action that isn't a movement. The most common are drawing or sheathing a weapon, making a perception check (such as to see through an illusion), or directing/redirecting a spell currently in effect. Some classes have other move action options, such as bardic performance. If you are going to be heavily invested in grapple, I would greatly suggest the greater grapple feat as soon as possible. That feat allows you to make grapple checks with move actions also.

[Razzle the Second]

What if you don't have a fly speed?
To be more accurate: What I have in my mind is: Is it possible for a monk to grapple a flying opponent if he could successfully reach her using Cloud Step?
If yes, what will happen at the end of that particular turn? Both started to fall? Only monk started to fall even after a successfull grapple check? Because, Cloud Step says you need to end your turn on a solid ground otherwise start to fall.

[Vratix]

Razzle the Second wrote:

What if you don't have a fly speed?

To be more accurate: What I have in my mind is: Is it possible for a monk to grapple a flying opponent if he could successfully reach her using Cloud Step?
If yes, what will happen at the end of that particular turn? Both started to fall? Only monk started to fall even after a successfull grapple check? Because, Cloud Step says you need to end your turn on a solid ground otherwise start to fall.

You would both fall.

Look at the grappled condition.

Grappled wrote:

A grappled creature is restrained by a creature, trap, or effect. Grappled creatures cannot move and take a –4 penalty to Dexterity.

emphasis mine.

You aren't on flat ground: you fall. It can't move: it falls.

[Imbicatus]

Vratix wrote:

Razzle the Second wrote:

What if you don't have a fly speed?

To be more accurate: What I have in my mind is: Is it possible for a monk to grapple a flying opponent if he could successfully reach her using Cloud Step?
If yes, what will happen at the end of that particular turn? Both started to fall? Only monk started to fall even after a successfull grapple check? Because, Cloud Step says you need to end your turn on a solid ground otherwise start to fall.

You would both fall.

Look at the grappled condition.

Grappled wrote:

A grappled creature is restrained by a creature, trap, or effect. Grappled creatures cannot move and take a –4 penalty to Dexterity.

emphasis mine.

You aren't on flat ground: you fall. It can't move: it falls.

I'm not sure this is correct. It's can't move, but magical flight is a purely mental action. It would need to have enough carry capacity to hold both of you aloft, and would need to make a fly check to hover. But it wouldn't automatically fall.

[Claxon]

Winged creatures like a roc can definitely fly and grapple something, and even have grab to make it better.

As for what happens when you grapple a flying creature and cannot yourself fly? Well if the creature flies magical it stays aloft and you're hanging on. Assuming it's carrying capacity is enough to support you both. Otherwise you both fall. If it's a winged creature...well it's the same until you get to pinned. I think pinned would restrain the wings from being unable to generate flight.

[Vratix]

Imbicatus wrote:

I'm not sure this is correct. It's can't move, but magical flight is a purely mental action. It would need to have enough carry capacity to hold both of you aloft, and would need to make a fly check to hover. But it wouldn't automatically fall.

This is right. I was thinking only of natural means of flight when I made that post. (Although, it does seem unlikely that most things that fly via magic will be unlikely to have the carrying capacity to keep up a second person)

[happynslappy]

Imbicatus wrote:

Vratix wrote:

Razzle the Second wrote:

What if you don't have a fly speed?

To be more accurate: What I have in my mind is: Is it possible for a monk to grapple a flying opponent if he could successfully reach her using Cloud Step?
If yes, what will happen at the end of that particular turn? Both started to fall? Only monk started to fall even after a successfull grapple check? Because, Cloud Step says you need to end your turn on a solid ground otherwise start to fall.

You would both fall.

Look at the grappled condition.

Grappled wrote:

A grappled creature is restrained by a creature, trap, or effect. Grappled creatures cannot move and take a –4 penalty to Dexterity.

emphasis mine.

You aren't on flat ground: you fall. It can't move: it falls.

I'm not sure this is correct. It's can't move, but magical flight is a purely mental action. It would need to have enough carry capacity to hold both of you aloft, and would need to make a fly check to hover. But it wouldn't automatically fall.

along this line of reasoning could someone magically flying still fly around while being grappled?