My monday night group is playing gestalt through rise of the runelords


Advice


My dm is playing us through rise of the runelords we are running it gestalt and i have died for the 4th time
so far i have made
Bard/sorcerer i made it to level 2 died in a cramped quarters attack on a group of goblins this was nearly a tpk only survivor was the gunslinger/ranger next
I made a Sorcerer/Ninja sneaks on touch spells was appealing died from a crit was 1 hp short of surviving the crit
was level 3
next i liked ninja a lot but wanted to be tougher less squishy
ninja/fighter with a +1 keen nodachi
i died to a greater Tentamort seems I may have been duped i was taking con damage every round not every other round and i failed my saves every time any way. The dice were against me could not roll over a 10 all night multiple dice multiple methods of rolling...

Now what to make this time
I am thinking i want to do
palidin/sorcerer for the saves...

i forgot to mention
only core books no archtypes


Paladin/sorcerer is going to be the strongest from the ones you have made.


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XMorsX wrote:
Paladin/sorcerer is going to be the strongest from the ones you have made.

so any suggestions on gear or type of guy to make.

I have made one of these palidin/sorcerers before in another campaign but with lighter rules and starting at level 6

Currently we have
a gunslinger/ranger only one who has not yet died
a palidin/monk
a summoner/bard

3 of us are making new things to bring to the table tommrow
im making a palidin/sorc i think one is making a magus/fighter
3rd guy i have no idea what he is making but he seems to not be able to play both classes at the same time as in he played a monk/cleric and he pretty much ignored the cleric side of his PC he is making a fighter/gunslinger.

Humm no real healer...


Actually make a Paladin/Synthesist summoner and bring on the pain.


XMorsX wrote:
Actually make a Paladin/Synthesist summoner and bring on the pain.

cant synth is an archetype we are not allowed archetypes also only pathfinder core books no extra suppliments otherwise we would have an entire party of synth summoner/blank.


I forgot. Vanilla summoner is out of the way i guess, right? Because he is also a better much with the paladin that the Sorcerer. Otherwise Sorcerer/Paladin is a solid combo.

I have no experience of gestalt to be honest. I guess being able to be effective both with melee and spells is going to be important. Focusing on Polymorph spells with many natural attacks in combination with smite can be effective. Going with Abyssal bloodline for the bonus Str and claws could be a a good choice. In this case you could invest some feats in summoning too, added summons is very powerful.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

How many players? If you have a full party of gestalts and are STILL dying, there's a problem. I've found fighter/rogue to be a good gestalt. With a melee/caster, you run into the problem of you can EITHER cast or swing, but not both. All you get is versatility. With fighter/rogue, you mix up the good Fort & Ref, max out your skill selection, and gain evasion, uncanny dodge, etc. But you get the fighter attack progression- the better to land your sneak attacks with.


You could go archer fighter/ diviner wizard. +1/2 level to initiative is very good, especially for a martial type. Spam scrying and other divinations out of combat to avoid traps/ ambushes/ danger in general. In combat forget you're part wizard and just be a fighter with an obscene initiative who can full attack every turn.

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

there's a couple things to think about when making a gestalt character- survivability, competence, action economy...

its hard to give real specific advice without knowing more specifics (point buy, starting level, wealth), but we can talk generally about those things.
- survivability: with two classes to draw from, you should be able to have good HP and saves (there's actually a number of ways to get d10 or d12 hp with all good saves), you should have decent defenses (either because both classes allow armor, or one provides magical or innate bonuses), and some classes grant additional survivability (mostly through healing or DR).
- competence: every character has things they want/need to do, and they want to be good at them. some classes will synergize (making the total better at that thing than either individual class), others do completely different things (and, so, aren't any better at either than a non-gestalt character).
- action economy: you can only do so much in a round. having a decent attack and a decent spell that both require a standard action results in you getting one decent action in a round (inferior to one good or great action), and two classes that have no use for a swift action results in wasted swift actions every round.

i suppose there should be a flexibility category too... a fighter/barbarian will be great at swinging a big heavy death-stick, but not super useful outside of combat.

so looking at this all together- combining a pally with anything with good Ref will get d10 hp and all good saves; same with a ranger and any class with good Will. a monk or bard will work with any full BAB class. in terms of competence the best synergy comes from a 3/4 BAB class (that's still supposed to be competent in melee) with a full BAB class (you gain full BAB/iterations the bonus feat/rage/smite/etc, plus all the melee abilities/bonuses of the 3/4 BAB class). action economy really has to be looked at on a combo by combo basis but as much as possible you want to be able to take standard actions that benefit from both classes and have at least 1-2 options for swift actions (but not so many that you can't take them all).

paladins are a good starting point for this: good toughness, great saves, swift action self heal is HUGE, and smite will benefit just about anything you combine it with. adding sorcerer to that leaves you a slight weak-spot in your Ref save (probably the least important save), and defenses become a bit of an issue- armor will give you spell failure % and the arcane armor feats use up your swift action (meaning you can't LoH your self in the same round you cast). if you decide to go this route, focus on buff spells (preferably ones with longer durations so you can cast them out of combat) and utility spells (again, for outside of combat). Another good option would be to go pally/ninja- there's less Cha synergy (though there is still some) but all your saves will be great, you'll have better skills, and you'll have good combat synergy (especially if there are other melee guys you can flank with). Lay on Hands and Vanishing Trick are both swift actions, so there's a little conflict there, but they're both defensive abilities so generally you'd only be looking at one or the other in a single round anyways. pally/ranger would also work, especially if you have enough idea of what you're fighting to maximize use of your favored enemy bonuses; or ranger/inquisitor (if that's an option), though then you miss out on swift heals (which is an enormous boost to survivability). As handy as straight casters are, you don't see a lot of people recommending them for gestalt builds because they gain less benefit from the system than other classes (spells don't scale up or down with campaign power level, so they're at their most powerful in a low point buy game and at their weakest in very high point buy and/or gestalt games). that said, they are still handy and if you want to make one paladin is a decent choice (the 'best' option for a full arcane caster might be a monk- you miss out on full BAB and some hp, but unarmored AC bonus stacks well with defensive spells and unarmed combat is nice when you need free hand(s) for casting). for something completely different- a fighter/bard doesn't get swift heals but has all good saves, good skills, good combat ability (including performance buffs that he can maintain while fighting), and a smattering of spells (including heals) that he can cast in light armor (including mithril breastplate, which your proficient with thanks to fighter levels)...

that ended up being a much longer post than i intended... i hope it has some useful info for you (and feel free to share anything that seems helpful with the other players who are switching).


Well two things i would love to make another ninja but my dm has a thing for us making the same thing as the one that died so i am not allowed to make a ninja again so soon. Also i forgot to mention we are doing 15 point buy for stats...

Also my dm is buffing things so we don't tear the standard rise of the runelords to bits like tissue paper. Everything is buffed over normal and every boss we fight has been gestalt twisted... Example the tentamort that killed my fighter ninja was a greater tentamort with 78 hp the poison it used triggered every round not just every other and when it ate a player or summon it healed it had 2 tentacles with 30ft reach with stingers on both and it grappled and stung with the same two.

So when I got grappled i got stung and nauseated. I remained so as i rolled my save once to overcome the poison but could not break the grapple so i got poisoned again the next round and failed my remaining saves and died due to hp loss rather than con loss. It did not help the thing remained on the ceiling 25ft from the ground and the only damage that got done to it was from summons and the monk paladin that was jumping up and punching it.

What we will have at the table tonight is
all level 5
gunslinger/ranger
gunslinger/fighter
magus/fighter
summoner/bard
paladin/monk
paladin/sorcerer

I'm rolling with
paladin/sorcerer
11 str
12 dex
12 con
12 int
10 wis
18 cha

fort +10
ref +7
will +9

ac 18
touch 13
Flatfooted 17

im thinking that
i want a
mw scimitar with aspirations of adding spell storing to it later
+1 Mithril kikko
Cloak of resistance
Headband of alluring charisma +2 (long shot my dm might want me to have craft wonderous then make it)
If i cant get the headband im thinking a ring of protection +1 and the scimitar being +1

Grand Lodge

Are you rolling or using point buy?

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

he said it was a 15 point buy- i'm guessing from the stat array that he's allowed to use an Aasimar (you could get those stats for 15 points with a base aasimar or the angelkin, idyllkin, musetouched, or peri-blooded variants).

@OP- the way you assigned stats looks like you're primarily a caster with pally for survivability (and a little melee for resource management)... what are you going to do about the 10% ASF? remember that lay hands is your biggest boost to survivability... so rounds when you can't use it (because you're using arcane armor training) may be dangerous, and even though you have +5 BAB, with that Str and a 1d6 weapon actually engaging in melee combat will only really be a viable option when you're smiting.


Did you consider paladin/oracle? Charisma synergy and you could be an actual healer for the group.

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

Gerald wrote:
Did you consider paladin/oracle? Charisma synergy and you could be an actual healer for the group.

depending on what the OP is trying to accomplish, that's really probably a better option. it defensively stronger (because there's no ASF% to worry about, so armor works great), would allow for more party healing, and depending on curse/mystery could fill a couple different roles: the metal mystery would make for stronger melee (though you might want to drop Cha just a little to raise Str for that); a flame oracle with the blackened curse would be even worse in melee but could be the party healer (with LoH and channel from pally plus oracle cure spells) and would have access to a bunch of good blasting spells...

The Exchange

I would mix Barbarian and cleric. Dwarf for race.
Str 14, dex 12, con 16, int 7, wis 16, cha 10 (15pt w/racial mods)

raging and buff spells will make you a good combatant, you can heal, have access to a good bunch of spells, can wear medium armor, never encumbered, darkvision, good speed for a dwarf from barbarian, nice weapon proficiency, great hp and a great mix of saves. He isn't the most mix/maxed dude but he has the ability points to do all the things he needs to as both a barbarian and a cleric. skill points are a little low but you need a survivor.
You could even decide to be more ranged focus with this build if you wanted and try to stay out of melee as much as possible.


nate lange wrote:
Gerald wrote:
Did you consider paladin/oracle? Charisma synergy and you could be an actual healer for the group.
depending on what the OP is trying to accomplish, that's really probably a better option. it defensively stronger (because there's no ASF% to worry about, so armor works great), would allow for more party healing, and depending on curse/mystery could fill a couple different roles: the metal mystery would make for stronger melee (though you might want to drop Cha just a little to raise Str for that); a flame oracle with the blackened curse would be even worse in melee but could be the party healer (with LoH and channel from pally plus oracle cure spells) and would have access to a bunch of good blasting spells...

Looking at his party makeup, I'd either go metal oracle or battle oracle, and play a more melee based character when combined with the paladin. If going with a 15 point buy, I'd bump Str, Cha, and a bit of Con. Dex, Int, and Wis can all be dumped with the heavy armor the character could wear.


Stat array is just human

With the +1 from levels in cha and the racial +2 in cha.

Only allowed races with an overall +2 to stats.

My dm has a house rule where actions can be downgraded so I could do 3 swift actions in a turn 2 swift and standard or swift move and standard. I did take arcane armor training.

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