Is there a way for Oracles to use Wisdom as their primary stat?


Rules Questions


Very quick question, is there currently a way for Oracles to use Wisdom as their primary stat, in the way Empyreal Sorcerers use wisdom instead of charisma?


Well with no replies in over an hour, I'm going to assume the answer is, as I suspected, 'no'.

:)

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

Nothing really changes the caster stat of the Oracle.


wow your patience limit is 1 hour?.... dam

however, no, unlike sorcerers oracles cannot change their casting stat.
will this ever change? who knows.

you could always create your own mystery or archtype


In a word 'no'.

I'm not a big fan of Sorcerers having alternative casting stats either and so don't allow them when I DM.

The argument I would make is that you don't have the same desire for Wizards and Clerics to have alternative casting stats. Why? Because Int and Wis are have other advantages as well as being a casting stat, yet Charisma is perceived as being less useful. Metagaming.


Not so much impatient, more that this is a busy, active board and any rules question is normally answered within a few minutes.

In this case I had laready looked around and found nothing, but wanted to check if I'd missed anything. The lack of response confirmed for me that the answer was indeed 'no'.

In a way my 'impatience' was a compliment to the efficiency of the posters here! :)


It can only be done with 3PP material.
Epic Meepo created a Wise Oracle archetype. Super Genius Games created a feat allowing to change your casting stat.


The sarcastic answer is "Be a Cleric". But really, as everyone said you can't without looking to 3PP or homebrew.

Grand Lodge

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Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

Perhaps, in the future...


I was going to suggest "Be a cleric" but I have been beaten to it


The 3rd party feat, Spell Finesse, allows you to change your Casting stat to another mental stat, like INT to CHA, or WIS to INT.


blackbloodtroll wrote:
Perhaps, in the future...

Oh you teaser...


strayshift wrote:

In a word 'no'.

I'm not a big fan of Sorcerers having alternative casting stats either and so don't allow them when I DM.

The argument I would make is that you don't have the same desire for Wizards and Clerics to have alternative casting stats. Why? Because Int and Wis are have other advantages as well as being a casting stat, yet Charisma is perceived as being less useful. Metagaming.

Only specific bloodlines get that ability anyway, and they pay for it by being forced to take one of those bloodlines. If it fits the character concept to be that kind of sorcerer, why not let 'em have it.

Just my take though. As the GM, you're the boss.


blahpers wrote:
strayshift wrote:

In a word 'no'.

I'm not a big fan of Sorcerers having alternative casting stats either and so don't allow them when I DM.

The argument I would make is that you don't have the same desire for Wizards and Clerics to have alternative casting stats. Why? Because Int and Wis are have other advantages as well as being a casting stat, yet Charisma is perceived as being less useful. Metagaming.

Only specific bloodlines get that ability anyway, and they pay for it by being forced to take one of those bloodlines. If it fits the character concept to be that kind of sorcerer, why not let 'em have it.

Just my take though. As the GM, you're the boss.

Exactly this. The price they pay to change their casting stat is that the ability to change their casting stat IS the only bloodline arcana they get. All the other bloodlines have an ability to do something nifty... these two bloodlines have the ability to use a different primary stat INSTEAD of having some other ability.

And they're locked into that exact bloodline for this ability too, they have to accept the entire bloodline as a whole, whether they like it or not, it is a package deal. Not even crossblooded archetype works, because the bloodlines that allow the stat changes are both wildblood variants, and you cannot use both archetypes.

Scarab Sages

Well, with my group you just sort of slip the GM a package of Double Stuff Oreos when nobody's looking =)


Remy Balster wrote:
blahpers wrote:
strayshift wrote:

In a word 'no'.

I'm not a big fan of Sorcerers having alternative casting stats either and so don't allow them when I DM.

The argument I would make is that you don't have the same desire for Wizards and Clerics to have alternative casting stats. Why? Because Int and Wis are have other advantages as well as being a casting stat, yet Charisma is perceived as being less useful. Metagaming.

Only specific bloodlines get that ability anyway, and they pay for it by being forced to take one of those bloodlines. If it fits the character concept to be that kind of sorcerer, why not let 'em have it.

Just my take though. As the GM, you're the boss.

Exactly this. The price they pay to change their casting stat is that the ability to change their casting stat IS the only bloodline arcana they get. All the other bloodlines have an ability to do something nifty... these two bloodlines have the ability to use a different primary stat INSTEAD of having some other ability.

And they're locked into that exact bloodline for this ability too, they have to accept the entire bloodline as a whole, whether they like it or not, it is a package deal. Not even crossblooded archetype works, because the bloodlines that allow the stat changes are both wildblood variants, and you cannot use both archetypes.

Then archetype or no, why is it we see no Clerics or Wizards converting to Charisma for their casting stat...

Exactly.

Contributor

Remy Balster wrote:
blahpers wrote:
strayshift wrote:

In a word 'no'.

I'm not a big fan of Sorcerers having alternative casting stats either and so don't allow them when I DM.

The argument I would make is that you don't have the same desire for Wizards and Clerics to have alternative casting stats. Why? Because Int and Wis are have other advantages as well as being a casting stat, yet Charisma is perceived as being less useful. Metagaming.

Only specific bloodlines get that ability anyway, and they pay for it by being forced to take one of those bloodlines. If it fits the character concept to be that kind of sorcerer, why not let 'em have it.

Just my take though. As the GM, you're the boss.

Exactly this. The price they pay to change their casting stat is that the ability to change their casting stat IS the only bloodline arcana they get. All the other bloodlines have an ability to do something nifty... these two bloodlines have the ability to use a different primary stat INSTEAD of having some other ability.

And they're locked into that exact bloodline for this ability too, they have to accept the entire bloodline as a whole, whether they like it or not, it is a package deal. Not even crossblooded archetype works, because the bloodlines that allow the stat changes are both wildblood variants, and you cannot use both archetypes.

Well, what if you're an oddball like me who wants a Charisma-based witch because of how gosh-darn thematic it is? I grew up watching Disney's Hocus Pocus and let me tell you, those witches' primary casting stat is NOT Intelligence.


strayshift wrote:
Remy Balster wrote:
blahpers wrote:
strayshift wrote:

In a word 'no'.

I'm not a big fan of Sorcerers having alternative casting stats either and so don't allow them when I DM.

The argument I would make is that you don't have the same desire for Wizards and Clerics to have alternative casting stats. Why? Because Int and Wis are have other advantages as well as being a casting stat, yet Charisma is perceived as being less useful. Metagaming.

Only specific bloodlines get that ability anyway, and they pay for it by being forced to take one of those bloodlines. If it fits the character concept to be that kind of sorcerer, why not let 'em have it.

Just my take though. As the GM, you're the boss.

Exactly this. The price they pay to change their casting stat is that the ability to change their casting stat IS the only bloodline arcana they get. All the other bloodlines have an ability to do something nifty... these two bloodlines have the ability to use a different primary stat INSTEAD of having some other ability.

And they're locked into that exact bloodline for this ability too, they have to accept the entire bloodline as a whole, whether they like it or not, it is a package deal. Not even crossblooded archetype works, because the bloodlines that allow the stat changes are both wildblood variants, and you cannot use both archetypes.

Then archetype or no, why is it we see no Clerics or Wizards converting to Charisma for their casting stat...

Because there's no option to do so? I'd do it in a heartbeat for some characters. Clerics, in particular.


Alexander Augunas wrote:
Well, what if you're an oddball like me who wants a Charisma-based witch because of how gosh-darn thematic it is? I grew up watching Disney's Hocus Pocus and let me tell you, those witches' primary casting stat is NOT Intelligence.

I'm amazed that they use Intelligence. Either of the other two mental stats seem more appropriate; Intelligence seems like it'd be the least appropriate, though not by all that much.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

The main problem I see is that the Oracle and the other Spontaneous casters typically are a version of one of the Vancian casting classes (Cleric, in this case) and except for one, they all use Cha for their caster stat. Cause I get magic from being pretty.

I see it as a downfall for choosing a class with different (Superior?) mechanics than it's mentor. I do like having characters with high Cha, but sometimes I miss the other stats when I can't perceive anything and have a hard time getting skills.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

You think Charisma is all about being pretty?

Sea Hags have awesome charisma.

Maybe, they just feel pretty?


Pretty is as pretty does!


Durinor wrote:
Pretty is as pretty does!

And Pretty shall eat your face she does!


Why do you want to cast with Wisdom, anyhow?

And a little off topic, but I thought there was a sorcerer archetype called "sage" or something similar that allowed you to cast with intelligence...


GypsyMischief wrote:

Why do you want to cast with Wisdom, anyhow?

And a little off topic, but I thought there was a sorcerer archetype called "sage" or something similar that allowed you to cast with intelligence...

There is. :)


I was playing around with the idea of a zen archer/life oracle as the lack of healing in my newly formed adventuring group is becoming an issue - we have a druid and a bard making a total of 4 cure light wounds/day for a party of five.

Seems a bit of a non-starter though.

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