Agile maneuvers add your Dexterity bonus to size bonus?

[Titania, the Summer Queen]

Let's say your size small. you have a -1 size bonus to your CMB and CMD. but you have agile maneuvers and your Dexterity is 20. So not only does your CMB get your dexterity +5 instead of strength +??, it also gets a +4 size bonus for an effective +9 to your cmb?

Not making much sense here.

[Michael Sayre]

Normally the formula for CMB is (BAB + Size + STR).

Agile Maneuvers makes it (BAB + Size + Dex). You don't add your dex in twice, you add it to your BAB and size once to determine your total CMB.

[Titania, the Summer Queen]

Ok, so the way they wrote is incorrect, has their been an errata some where?

Linkhere.

Agile Maneuvers (Combat)

You've learned to use your quickness in place of brute force when performing combat maneuvers.

Benefit: You add your Dexterity bonus to your base attack bonus and size bonus when determining your Combat Maneuver Bonus (see Combat) instead of your Strength bonus.

Normal: You add your Strength bonus to your base attack bonus and size bonus when determining your Combat Maneuver Bonus.

That reads adding your Dexterity bonus to your base attack bonus and size bonus.

If what you say is true, and I believe it is, shouldn't read

Benefit: You add your base attack bonus, your Dexterity bonus and your size bonus when determining your combat maneuver bonus?

[Petty Alchemy]

Your size bonus is still -1, Agile Manuevers does not change this. Even if it did, I'm not sure why you think your size bonus would be +4.

[fretgod99]

You don't add your ability modifier to your size bonus, meaning it modifies your size bonus. You add your ability modifier along with your size bonus and BAB to determine your CMB.

Ordinarily you add strength modifier to BAB and Size Bonus. It's STR + BAB + Size. You're reading it as STR(BAB + Size), or (STR + BAB) + (STR + Size). You're just subbing in DEX for STR. So, add DEX to BAB and Size to get CMB or DEX + BAB + Size.

[Jiggy]

Titania, the Summer Queen wrote:

You add your Dexterity bonus to your base attack bonus and size bonus when determining your Combat Maneuver Bonus (see Combat) instead of your Strength bonus.

Normal: You add your Strength bonus to your base attack bonus and size bonus when determining your Combat Maneuver Bonus.

You've misread the sentence. You might see it more clearly if you compare how the "Benefit" is phrased to how the "Normal" part is phrased.

[James Risner]

Titania, the Summer Queen wrote:

Normal: You add your Strength bonus to your base attack bonus and size bonus when determining your Combat Maneuver Bonus.

They just replaced Strength with Dexterity in this line.

[Titania, the Summer Queen]

I understand their intent.

What I am saying is that they RAW, they are adding either strength or dexterity to both the BAB and size bonus. Depending on if you have agile maneuvers or not.

[James Risner]

Titania, the Summer Queen wrote:

I understand their intent.

What I am saying is that they RAW, they are adding either strength or dexterity to both the BAB and size bonus. Depending on if you have agile maneuvers or not.

Sigh

I don't agree with you and to be true you would need to assert they incorrectly copied the "normal" line.

Otherwise normally you don't have a size bonus. You would always add your STR twice (once for STR and once for size) and never add the -1 for being small.

[WRoy]

"Your base attack bonus and size bonus," is a singular subject that happens to be composed of two combined numbers. You are interpreting the sentence as saying, "You add your Dexterity bonus to both your base attack bonus and size bonus when determining your Combat Maneuver Bonus (see Combat) instead of your Strength bonus," which is inferring meaning where none exists and not RAW.

[Titania, the Summer Queen]

WRoy wrote:

"Your base attack bonus and size bonus," is a singular subject that happens to be composed of two combined numbers. You are interpreting the sentence as saying, "You add your Dexterity bonus to both your base attack bonus and size bonus when determining your Combat Maneuver Bonus (see Combat) instead of your Strength bonus," which is inferring meaning where none exists and not RAW.

Really?

What are the two combined numbers? and What term does Pathfinder use for these combined numbers?

[Majuba]

Titania, the Summer Queen wrote:

What term does Pathfinder use for these combined numbers?

"Your base attack bonus and size bonus"

You add them, together with either your Strength (normal) or Dexterity (Agile Maneuvers). The collective term for that is "Combat Maneuver Bonus".

[Zhayne]

BAB+SIZ+DEX, not DEX(BAB+SIZ).

[Kaisoku]

This isn't an algebraic equation. Take out the numbers from this and you'll see what they are trying to say in plain english.

Combat Fruit Bonus: You add "grapes" to your "apples" and "oranges" when determining combat fruit bonus.

Taking out "grapes" and putting in "bananas" doesn't make it work any different.

The wording is fine. Read the Combat Maneuver sub section of the Combat page. It lists exactly how it is normally. Which means you can infer from the feat how Dexterity will fit in (since they list the normal way right below, using the same verbiage).