| 1 person marked this as FAQ candidate. |
Can a one-handed weapon with the double quality be used, as a double weapon, in one hand?
Are you saying can you hold a double weapon one-handedly and TWF with it?
Can a one-handed weapon with the double quality be used, as a double weapon, in one hand?
Double Weapons: Dire flails, dwarven urgroshes, gnome hooked hammers, orc double axes, quarterstaves, and two-bladed swords are double weapons. A character can fight with both ends of a double weapon as if fighting with two weapons, but he incurs all the normal attack penalties associated with two-weapon combat, just as though the character were wielding a one-handed weapon and a light weapon.
The character can also choose to use a double weapon two-handed, attacking with only one end of it. A creature wielding a double weapon in one hand can't use it as a double weapon—only one end of the weapon can be used in any given round.
Sniggevert has the right of it. Part of being a double weapon prevents you from using both ends when using it in one hand.
Also, I wasn't aware that there were any one-handed double weapons.
edit: just saw horselords post re: taiaha, unless it specifically calls out an exception to the double weapon rules then no, you can't use both ends while wielding in one hand.
|
You can if it's inappropriately sized for you.You can not wield a double weapon in one hand AT ALL.
Save for specific exceptions, such as the feat Quarterstaff Mastery. And even then, you're only hitting with one head on it.
Neither the rules for double weapons nor the rules for using inappropriately-sized weapons allow you to disregard the proscription on using the 'double' quality while using only one hand to wield.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
This is not a FAQ. I hope the Devs shut down the FAQ function for a couple of weeks so people can cool down.
| 3 people marked this as a favorite. |
This is not a FAQ. I hope the Devs shut down the FAQ function for a couple of weeks so people can cool down.
Mail out plastic bags with "all the FAQs answered inside!" printed on the side. Let the root problem solve itself.
@Pupsocket
LOL!
|
|
That isn't what I meant. You can't use both ends of a double weapon if you wield it in one hand. I was just responding to LazarX's comment that it was impossible to wield a double weapon in one hand at all; it's possible, if rare, but if you do so, you can't use it as a double weapon.Neither the rules for double weapons nor the rules for using inappropriately-sized weapons allow you to disregard the proscription on using the 'double' quality while using only one hand to wield.You can if it's inappropriately sized for you.You can not wield a double weapon in one hand AT ALL.
Save for specific exceptions, such as the feat Quarterstaff Mastery. And even then, you're only hitting with one head on it.
Ooooooooohhhhh!
My bad. : )
Double Weapons: The character can also choose to use a double weapon two-handed, attacking with only one end of it. A creature wielding a double weapon in one hand can't use it as a double weapon—only one end of the weapon can be used in any given round.
Why would a character use a one-handed double weapon in two hands to only attack with one end of it? What would be the point?
This rule is obviously written with two-handed double weapons in mind, hence the question: what about one-handed double weapons?
Are you saying can you hold a double weapon one-handedly and TWF with it?
Can a one-handed weapon with the double quality be used, as a double weapon, in one hand?
|
if you're holding a double-weapon in two hands, you can use both ends and gain its benefit as a double weapon.
if you're holding it in one hand, you can't use it, as all the double weapons are two-handed weapons. you're just holding it, not wielding it.
all the class abilities/archetype abilities that let you use the two-handed weapon as a one-handed weapon state that they operate as one-handed weapons.
so even if you were able to use a double-sword in one hand, via titan mauler, it would operate as a one handed weapon, not a double weapon. so you'd be swinging one side of the double weapon, not using two weapon fighting for it, and gaining -1 to hit / +2 damage for power attack like a one handed weapon.
you COULD then fight with a double weapon in one hand, and a light weapon in your off hand.
but at that point... the character is just a silly corner case, taking lots of penalties, to TWF with two double-weapons, one in each hand, just to have a choice of which 2 end of 4 to attack with each round. or at higher bab/improved twf, attacking with one end of each weapon once per round. ( 2 primary main/off, and 2 iterative main/off)
don't piss off the PDT by asking for an FAQ when its very clear the answer is no.
this isn't a frequently asked question.
Double Weapons: The character can also choose to use a double weapon two-handed, attacking with only one end of it. A creature wielding a double weapon in one hand can't use it as a double weapon—only one end of the weapon can be used in any given round.
Why would a character use a one-handed double weapon in two hands to only attack with one end of it? What would be the point?
This rule is obviously written with two-handed double weapons in mind, hence the question: what about one-handed double weapons?
The point would be if they are limited to only a standard action, after say moving up to their target, it allows them to take advantage of the 1.5xSTR bonus when attacking with a 2 handed weapon on this hit (and any riders such as power attack or other feats for fighting with a 2 handed weapon).
Normally, when TWF you can not do this, as both hands have separate weapons in them limiting to just a single handed strike in such instances.
It's not a major benefit, but it can be noticeable if the character has enough STR/Power Attack bonuses to stack on.
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
This is not a FAQ. I hope the Devs shut down the FAQ function for a couple of weeks so people can cool down.
I think most people are calm.
I'm not concerned about the random nerdrage outbursts when people lose their favorite cheese move.
If anything, I think that is evidence of why we need FAQ. If some people are going to throw a fit when the writer of the game disagrees with how they read something, imagine if a lowly GM disagrees with them...
Hands are an economy with attacking. The entire point of TWF is using the economy of your off-hand to make an extra attack at the cost of being unable to use it for something else, like two-handing your main weapon or using a shield. Weapons with the double property function two weapons attached to each other. It follows that you can only use one weapon when attacking with one hand. The hand economy does get harder to understand with the numerous ways you can substitute your off-hand, such as armor spikes.
So...
Rules As Written, you can't use the double property when wielding the weapon with one hand, as explained by Karzaan.
Rules As Implied, you still can't use the double property because all content that enables you to wield a double-property weapon with one hand explicitly say you can't use the double property when doing so.
Rules with Respect to Design Intent, you STILL can't do it because of the hand economy. This is why you can't TWF with armor spikes when two-handing a weapon.
No matter how you look at it, you cannot use the double property when wielding a weapon with the double property using one hand. There's still mechanical benefits to a one-handed weapon with the double property. For example, it would enable a magus to spell combat with it.
Huh.
My understanding that was that it could be used the following ways.
Two Weapon Fighting - Used in both hands for the purposes of two weapon fighting with both ends of the weapon.
Two Handed - Two handing one end of the weapon for 1.5 Strength bonus. For when you can't full attack, etc.
One Handed - One handing one end of the weapon. Would allow you to use a shield with it. Or have a free hand, such as for a magus's spell combat.
Which would give you similar versatility as being a two weapon fighter with two weapons, (which, with its two enchantable ends, a double weapon essentially is, with some perks/drawbacks).
if you're holding it in one hand, you can't use it, as all the double weapons are two-handed weapons. you're just holding it, not wielding it.
Except there are many one-handed weapons with the double property in the game.
Taiaha, And all the other double weapons when they're small sized and wielded by a medium character.
don't piss off the PDT by asking for an FAQ when its very clear the answer is no.
this isn't a frequently asked question.
I'm not trying to piss anyone off, and if anyone on the PRD is annoyed by the question, then I apologise.
The answer to the question would indeed be a clear no, except for comments made that you can use a double weapon if it was smaller than the character wielding it (making it a one-handed weapon). With that comment in mind it's no longer clear, and could be made more so.
Apocryphile, I don't think he was referring to you, but moreso to some other threads that have popped up lately. But if you have a guilty conscious... :p
My conscience is clear thanks. I think autocorrect may have spoiled your joke a little. ;)
Kazaan seems to have figured out how double weapons ... errr ... weapons with the double property can work whilst maintaining full rules consistency. I regard this as a working explanation of RAW.
Agreed, except if someone actually wanted to do this, Kazaan's comment wouldn't hold any water with a PFS GM.
Somewhere upthread, someone mentioned that this would be away for someone to get around the whole limb economy thing, and that's a really good point. If you look at it from that pov, you obviously shouldn't be able to do this.
Just in the same way that you can't use armour spikes to twf if you're a sword n board fighter. Said like that, it would be a cheesy move. It could do with some clarification though, something like, "a weapon with the double quality can only be used to attack with both ends when it is wielded in both hands, regardless of how many hands it normally takes to wield said weapon"
That would clear it up nicely I think.
Kazaan seems to have figured out how double weapons ... errr ... weapons with the double property can work whilst maintaining full rules consistency. I regard this as a working explanation of RAW.Agreed, except if someone actually wanted to do this, Kazaan's comment wouldn't hold any water with a PFS GM.
I think you might wish to reread Kazaan's post a little more then. He's basically saying the same thing I've been trying to state for the past couple of days. The wording in part 3 might be a bit convoluted, but is saying what I was all along.
Can a one-handed weapon with the double quality be used, as a double weapon, in one hand?No. The "double" feature of a weapon only comes into play when Two-Weapon Fighting (which itself, by it's very nature, requires the use of two hands).
You can fight with a barbazu beard and a blade boot using twf (now there's a weird image). Look no hands! However, I get what you're saying, which is it requires the effort of two hands, I think.
If you say, double weapon=twf=2hands worth of effort, then it's pretty clear.
I think you might wish to reread Kazaan's post a little more then. He's basically saying the same thing I've been trying to state for the past couple of days. The wording in part 3 might be a bit convoluted, but is saying what I was all along.Kazaan seems to have figured out how double weapons ... errr ... weapons with the double property can work whilst maintaining full rules consistency. I regard this as a working explanation of RAW.Agreed, except if someone actually wanted to do this, Kazaan's comment wouldn't hold any water with a PFS GM.
Not really, apart from the "haaands" sarcasm, he said what he said clearly, without just putting quotes in bold!
But if I didn't get your intent Sniggevert, then I'm sorry.
I really hadn't thought about this from the hands worth of effort view. It's really quite clear from that way of looking at it.
|
|
Can a one-handed weapon with the double quality be used, as a double weapon, in one hand?No. The "double" feature of a weapon only comes into play when Two-Weapon Fighting (which itself, by it's very nature, requires the use of two hands).You can fight with a barbazu beard and a blade boot using twf (now there's a weird image). Look no hands! However, I get what you're saying, which is it requires the effort of two hands, I think.
If you say, double weapon=twf=2hands worth of effort, then it's pretty clear.
We aren't talking about TWF with boot blades and barbezu beards, are we? I shouldn't have to preface my comments about double weapons in a thread dealing with double weapons.
EDIT: my phone autocorrected to "barbecue" beard...that would be epic!
Huh.
My understanding that was that it could be used the following ways.
Two Weapon Fighting - Used in both hands for the purposes of two weapon fighting with both ends of the weapon.
Two Handed - Two handing one end of the weapon for 1.5 Strength bonus. For when you can't full attack, etc.
One Handed - One handing one end of the weapon. Would allow you to use a shield with it. Or have a free hand, such as for a magus's spell combat.
Which would give you similar versatility as being a two weapon fighter with two weapons, (which, with its two enchantable ends, a double weapon essentially is, with some perks/drawbacks).
This is exactly how it works. More people should craft posts this succinctly. Throw in a rules quote or two and you're golden.
Double Weapons: Dire flails, dwarven urgroshes, gnome hooked hammers, orc double axes, quarterstaves, and two-bladed swords are double weapons. A character can fight with both ends of a double weapon as if fighting with two weapons, but he incurs all the normal attack penalties associated with two-weapon combat, just as though the character were wielding a one-handed weapon and a light weapon.
The character can also choose to use a double weapon two-handed, attacking with only one end of it. A creature wielding a double weapon in one hand can't use it as a double weapon—only one end of the weapon can be used in any given round.